Meta’s Massive Settlement, Bill Gates’ AI Warning, and Remembering Dolly Parton

Pivot

In this episode of Pivot, Kara Swisher is joined by CNN's Kaitlan Collins to explore Dolly Parton's cultural and political legacy, Meta's la

Key takeaways

• Dolly Parton's legacy extends beyond music—she quietly championed LGBTQ+ rights, feminism, and racial justice through her actions and choices, such as selecting Melissa Etheridge for a high-profile duet in 2003.
• Meta's settlement marks a significant moment in holding tech companies accountable for addictive design practices, signaling potential regulatory shifts.

Main topics

• Dolly Parton's cultural legacy and quiet political activism
• Meta's social media addiction settlement

Notable quotes

"We got to exist on the same planet as her is so special to me."

Conclusion

The episode underscores how cultural icons like Dolly Parton embody values of

Transcript preview

Speaker 3 (0:00) Support for the show comes from CoreWeave. Everywhere you look, AI is expanding what we thought was possible. And at the center of it all is CoreWeave. Medical research and diagnosis, education, complex visual effects for movies, science and technology breakthroughs. CoreWeave powers AI pioneers around the world with purpose-built tech, building what's never been built before. CoreWeave is the essential cloud for AI. Ready for anything, ready for AI. To learn more about how CoreWeave powers the world's best AI, go to coreweave.com slash ready for anything. Speaker 2 (0:33) I'm Ina Garten. This fall, join me for Happy Hour with Ina, my new video podcast. Each week on the show, I'll invite guests for a delicious drink and a conversation at my kitchen table in New York City. And you're invited. Subscribe to Happy Hour with Ina on YouTube or your favorite podcast app for new episodes every Wednesday starting September 16th. Speaker 6 (1:03) Megan Rapinoe here. This week on Why Are You Like This, I am talking with Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Pablo Torre about his New York City upbringing, striking fear into the hearts of sports teams and blazing his own trail in sports media. Pablo also flips the script on me and gets me to answer a very spicy question. Check out the latest episode of Why Are You Like This wherever you get your podcasts and on YouTube. Speaker 7 (1:29) For Donald Trump and the Democratic Socialist of America to both put out a pretty similar statement about the passing of someone is a moment that probably will never happen again. Speaker 4 (1:41) Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher, and we're back for yet another fine episode of... Scott Speaker 2 (1:52) Free Speaker 4 (1:52) August. Speaker 4 (1:56) Oh, I love that so much. Today, I'm joined by Chief White House Correspondent and anchor of The Source with Caitlin Collins, the very same Caitlin Collins. Good to see you. Speaker 7 (2:07) How does Scott feel about that intro? What do you think? You saw Speaker 4 (2:12) him more recently than I did. I saw a photograph of the two of you. Speaker 7 (2:16) I did run into him. It's so funny to see Scott like out in the wild. You know, it's like seeing like a teacher when you're like in the sixth grade out there to school and you're like, what are you doing here on vacation? Yeah. Speaker 4 (2:26) Did you see that? What was he doing Speaker 7 (2:27) there? He was just hanging out. He was having dinner with someone like a political, you know, foreign policy thinker. He was good. He seemed rested. ready to get back to podcasting. Yeah, he's Speaker 4 (2:39) suddenly texting me a lot. So I know that it's Speaker 7 (2:43) the Speaker 4 (2:43) end of August because he's like, hey, girl. And I'm like, oh, hi, good to talk to you. And he's also threading a lot. He does threads. And so he has an opinion about things. I'll tell you, we'll discuss this later, but he's very upset that he's not here for the Natalie Harp situation. He's like, missed that. And now Dolly Parton, Scott and I are huge fans. So you dedicated your entire show to Dolly Parton on Tuesday night. Talk a little bit about it. What's your favorite Dolly song to start with? I Speaker 7 (3:11) mean, I was actually thinking about this last night because I was listening to, I had a very long car ride last night and I was listening to Dolly Parton the whole time. Yes, me too. You know, I really think, I mean, there's so many good ones and Islands in the Stream is incredible, but I really think it's Hard Candy Christmas because it is like, I know it's kind of like a random one. No, it's not. Speaker 4 (3:29) Not random, but it's not always. You're a real fan if you know that one, yeah. Yeah, it's Speaker 7 (3:32) not always the first one I think people think of. Right. But it's what I think of when I think of Dolly Parton. And for us to dedicate a whole show to something that is not politically related is pretty rare for us. But it really speaks to, I think, how everyone felt about Dolly Parton, certainly how I think about her. Speaker 4 (3:49) Oh, but I think she was politically related in a way that was very different. I think she did a lot of political things without saying them out loud. Someone would call it quiet politics, like in terms of her actions, whether it was supporting the Moderna vaccine or whether it was, you know, doing all manner of feminist things without having to say so or supporting trans people or supporting Black Lives Matter. She was quite explicit about that. So she was political in a very different way than what we're used to, I would assume. Speaker 7 (4:17) Yeah, and you know what I loved is, when we had Melissa Etheridge on, she brought this up immediately, and we were going to talk to her about it, but that moment when they did the Crossroads duet together, which, you know, I grew up watching CMT. Like, that's all. My parents could get me to clean my room because I would blare CMT, like Travis Tritt and George Strait, and I would just listen to music. But when they did their duet, it was the first time that two women had done it, so it was a breakthrough in and of itself. But Melissa was telling me that actually it meant so much more to her than that because Dolly was selected. They let Dolly pick who she wanted. She picked Melissa Etheridge. And it was in 2003, it was at a time when the gay marriage debate was raging in the United States. And Melissa said for her to be invited in that moment to share the stage with her was so special and so meaningful to her. And obviously she spoke up for the gay community so much throughout her career, decades before it was, you know, an in vogue thing to do for a celebrity. And it was just so special to hear Melissa talk about what that meant, you know, 20 years ago to share that stage with Dolly Parton. Well, Speaker 4 (5:19) I think she knew exactly what she was doing. You know what I mean? I think she understood her, who she was. And she had conducted her career that way, doing, you know, really being the pilot of everything. One of the things I put up was a song that I love called Traveling Through. And it's not such a great song. It was from a movie called Transamerica, which was about a trans woman who's meeting her son. And it was astonishing. And it's such a song of acceptance. You know, at the time, it was not a thing that a lot of people did. She constantly put herself on the line in that regard in a very quiet, but I think profoundly strong way, in a very different way. Although she did speak out when she needed to. She absolutely did. Yeah, Speaker 7 (6:02) and you know, even just on her... Her life overall, I have never gotten so many messages from family members about my show. I mean, they watch. Obviously, I always say I'm converting Alabama viewers one at a time. Explain where you're from for people. People do know your background, but people who don't. You're from Alabama. I'm from a small town outside of Montgomery called Prattville in Alabama. My immediate family watches the show almost every night, but to hear from kind of some distant relatives last night or people that are in my family that I went to Dollywood with a bunch of times as a kid, it was really fun to hear them reflecting on her and also... you know, loving to hear from Pam Tillis and Melissa Etheridge last night. And I mean, but Dolly really was a huge part of my childhood because this is what we did in the South for vacation. We drove down to the beach or we drove north to Tennessee. Those were our two spots that we went pretty much every year. And we would go to Dollywood and we thought it was, I mean, it was Disney World for us before we went to Disney World. And we'd go there, you could see Dolly's childhood home, a replica of it. And... It's a core memory for me as a child. And so having that, knowing her childhood and what she came from and never forgot is so meaningful Speaker 4 (7:12) to Speaker 7 (7:12) me, I think. And Speaker 4 (7:13) genuine. And genuine, too. Because let me tell you, you'd be surprised to know, of course, I've been to Dollywood. I was also a huge Elvis fan, by the way. Speaker 5 (7:21) And Speaker 4 (7:21) I've been to Tupelo. That's how much I was. And I loved Dolly Parton so much. I took my whole family to Dollywood. And one of the things I loved about, and it's in Pigeon Forge. which is now kind of big and touristy, but it's really kind of fascinating what she's done there economically for that region. And I went there, and what's amazing about it, which is there's so many differences in this country that's crazy, but when you get in Dollywood, everyone gets along. Like, it's crazy. Like, you walk through the thing, walk through the butterfly entrance, and I took my daughter, Clara was a baby, just found the pictures from there, and including in that shack, we took her into that shack and everything else. butterflies are Dolly's symbol, whatever that was her thing that she had around. And literally you have the gays, the rednecks, the conservatives, the liberals, the lesbians. It was crazy. And everyone was so happy to be together because of her. And I was like, what, can you bottle this? It was such a, and then minute you go out, it's back into guns and abortion and everything. Like, you're like, it was really, it was a really interesting. feeling. And I never I never understood it. I loved Hollywood. I Speaker 7 (8:32) still haven't figured out how she did that. I mean, how she built this massive career, stayed true to her roots, was always herself. I mean, that's what I think is the most infectious part about her, is you watch her get all these questions, you know, 20, 30 years ago from a lot of men about her appearances and her look and how that affects her. I mean, Dan Rather's face when they're in this sit down and she's saying that she never slept with anyone to get anywhere. She only slept with people that she she wanted to sleep with if she happened to have slept with him, is this iconic moment. And he, I mean, you could tell he doesn't even know what to really say back to her. But I just think, you know, reflecting on how she was able to span that spectrum and appeal to so many people, it's hard to just think of other Speaker 4 (9:17) people who've achieved that. People ask me, who do you want to interview? Of all people, and I said Dolly Parton, but only about her entrepreneurship. I was like, I don't want to talk about the songs. I don't want to talk about anything but her entrepreneurship. And that's what really got through. Her ability to shift and change and move along, whether she went from, you know, country to leaving that show, the Porter Wagner show, to moving on to pop. And then she went to the... It just, she is the quintessential American entrepreneur. And I'd heard, the reason I wanted to interview her, was she was doing a lot of stuff with AI and song stems because she owns thousands of songs that haven't been released, too. And so she wanted them released after she died. And this is what I heard. Speaker 6 (10:00) Wow, Speaker 4 (10:00) I didn't know that. Exactly. And I wanted to talk to her about it. And just, she is the... an absolutely quintessential American entrepreneur in a way that is so beautiful and also just a kind and just a kind soul in a way that's very profound. I don't know. I just feel like that's why people reacted. So what did your relatives say, may I ask? I mean, they're all just Speaker 7 (10:22) sharing their own memories about going to Dollywood, listening to Dolly Parton, what she meant to them. I mean, my mom is a fourth grade teacher and she said she's been playing it in her classroom all morning. my stepdad, who was the, you know, driving force behind us going to Dollywood, was texting me about it this morning. And, you know, one thing that's funny, you were talking about taking your kids, which I love that you did. Of course. And I think everyone should go, is we went in a time when there were no smartphones or anything like that. I mean, maybe we had disposable cameras, but, I mean, maybe we didn't. I was asking my family, I was like, are there any pictures of us at Dollywood? And honestly, Everyone was looking for them yesterday because I wanted to use them in the show. And we couldn't find any. And I think it was a sign that of the times. But also, we had so much fun on these trips. And we were just so, you know, locked in on a family vacation of it all that like that was it. There are no pictures because that's how much fun we were having. And I just love that. I feel like it's so quaint. It's Speaker 4 (11:20) wonderful. place. The food is great, too, by the way. Cinnamon rolls are Speaker 7 (11:24) incredible. But also, there's healthy Speaker 4 (11:26) food, too. It's like a mix. Speaker 7 (11:27) I was sort of like, Tali. Well, we weren't eating that, I'll promise Speaker 4 (11:30) you. Speaker 7 (11:30) No, I know. I had the cinnamon. Speaker 4 (11:31) Obviously, I had the cinnamon roll. Hello. I had a dream of going up to the actual shack, finding it, and then I thought I'd get arrested or something like that. Yeah, Speaker 7 (11:39) because it still exists. I mean, she went back and bought it later on, which I think is so incredible. And it was insulated with newspaper and all these other clippings that were on the wall because... That was how they stayed. You know what I love that she said? Everyone's talked about her imagination library. And I'm a huge reader still. My kids use Speaker 4 (11:55) it. Speaker 7 (11:56) Reading is amazing. And reading as a kid was so, like, instrumental for me. But what I loved when she talked about why she started it is because her dad couldn't read or write. But she didn't say, oh, he couldn't read, couldn't write. She said he never had the chance to learn. Speaker 4 (12:09) That's right. Speaker 7 (12:09) And he didn't have that opportunity afforded to him. And I loved how she phrased that because I do think, I mean, all over, but especially in the South, so many of us have grandparents or great-grandparents that are like that. And it wasn't that they couldn't. or that they wouldn't have been able to. It was that they didn't have the opportunity. And that is what she wanted to give to people. Speaker 4 (12:26) Right, absolutely. All the time. One of the moments, and you probably covered this, when she did the, she used the Jolene song, which is one amazing song, in lots of ways, including technically how she put it together. Speaker 4 (12:41) Joe, she'd vaccine, vaccine, vaccine, vaccine. That was also a moment when there's all this anti-vax. It was incredible for her. That is a big political statement to me, like a risky one for someone like her. I Speaker 7 (12:53) think of the lives she saved. Speaker 4 (12:55) Yeah. I Speaker 7 (12:55) mean, that's what Melissa Etheridge was saying last night about her being outspoken about be who you are and don't worry about who someone else is. And the permission structure that she basically gave to people who were sitting in their room thinking, well, Dolly Parton's not judging me. I think in the South, especially during the pandemic, and people, a lot of vaccine hesitancy. I saw it among people I love. And to come out and say that, you know, she could have said nothing. Speaker 4 (13:18) Right. And she Speaker 7 (13:19) chose not to. Not only did she put her money where her mouth is, she also... Speaker 4 (13:22) spoke up like she always has. She always has, which is amazing. Just for people to know, this Imagination Library is amazing. My kids use it. They're wonderful books. And it's a Republican lawmakers in Missouri and Indiana cut or reduced funding for her child reading program. I hope they will reinstate it. I hope some billionaire will get... get with it and back that as they go forward. I'm sure she is giving away most of her money to things like that in her will, although she, one of the other things that I loved was her dedication to her own family. Like, they were all working for her, and that video from her nephew, who was her security person and her dad was before it, just, Speaker 6 (14:03) you Speaker 4 (14:03) just are like, what? You know? It's a real shift. Now, let me just say, Donald Trump ordered flags to fly at half-staff and said in a post, there's never been anyone like her and never will. Rest in peace, Dolly, the world loves you. Surprisingly, did not try to suck up the energy. Were you surprised? For Speaker 7 (14:19) Donald Trump and the Democratic Socialist of America to both put out a pretty similar statement about the passing of someone is a moment that probably will never happen again. Never again. I mean, for them to both agree on something, I think also speaks to the moment we're in. But it was a moment where... I mean, this morning he was saying in an interview that, you know, Dolly Parton always liked him and was, you know, so nice to him and a fan of his. And then, but in terms of this overall, you know, and I'm curious about your thoughts on this because we've talked about billionaires so much between the two of us and these tech giants and what people do with their money. One thing I keep seeing on... in the aftermath of her death is how she spent her money and that she was obviously extremely successful, but how she used that success to reinvest, not in like a bullshit kind of way in terms of, you know, let me make myself look good. She genuinely wanted to invest in children and in her community and where she came from. She Speaker 4 (15:11) gave money to the people to finish high school. She gave money to do that when people were devastated by, I think, the floods. She gave money, people for that to recover or whatever had been happening there. She also, when she made all that money on I Will Always Love You when Whitney Houston redid it and she made a fortune on that song and didn't sell it to Elvis. Again, great entrepreneur. She could have sold it to Elvis and she didn't at that time. Which imagine Speaker 7 (15:36) how tough that decision is. Speaker 4 (15:37) Oh, I totally... feel for her. Like Speaker 7 (15:40) you Speaker 4 (15:40) tell Elvis, no? No, no, you can't have it. Because she knew, she knew what a great, that's a perfect song. But what was really interesting is she continued to do that. And I agree with you. She didn't do, like, I guess the equivalent would be Mackenzie Scott, who is Jeff Bezos' ex-wife, who just gives money and goes away. Like, just hands it out, moves along, and you never hear from her. She does, she just hands it over to people. which I think is unusual. And you're right, most people do it in this incredibly selfish, performative way. Now, interestingly, Jeff Bezos did give Dolly Parton $100 million for that. money that he gave out to a number of people, including, I think, Van Jones and others. I think Jose Andres got some. And I think she's given it all away. She's given it, you know, given it, which is great. But honestly, Jeff Bezos should fucking just give it away. Like, to me, I was like, let's not do this performative, let me meet famous people. Just give it away and keep giving it away. That would be my taste in that. I Speaker 7 (16:39) love your shirt, by the way. Oh, thank you. Speaker 4 (16:41) I don't Speaker 7 (16:41) think we even talked about it. Speaker 4 (16:42) Oh, I'm wearing a shirt that says WWDD. What would Dolly do? I got it at Dollywood. It's so good. What would Dolly Speaker 7 (16:49) do? Speaker 4 (16:50) Well, Speaker 7 (16:50) I didn't realize, they didn't have this when I was a kid, but I was talking to someone last night about going, that they have a display of her wigs there now. Yes, yeah. Which I love. Speaker 4 (16:58) Yeah. I love the coat of many colors is there, and everything is there. You Speaker 7 (17:02) know what she did that I also think is important for women is she did not associate aesthetics with character. Speaker 6 (17:08) And Speaker 7 (17:09) she could separate those two in a way that a lot of people I've seen. to this day still struggle with, which is why I think she got so many questions about it. And she would, every time she got a question, it seemed like about her appearance, she would turn it back to what she's like on the inside. And she wasn't bashful about, you know, what she had done. I loved that also. But she was saying, you know, well, maybe it's fake on the outside, but it's real on the inside. That's Speaker 4 (17:32) right. That's one of her songs. That's one of the great songs she sang. So good. And one of my other, it's Fake Eyelash, what's Speaker 6 (17:38) it Speaker 4 (17:38) called? Backwoods Barbie. That's a great song. That talks about false eyelashes. Big Dreams and Faded Jeans. Big Speaker 7 (17:44) Dreams and Speaker 4 (17:44) Faded Jeans is a great song. And then I kept putting up songs that people don't know about. And my favorite is, and they redid it with a bunch of amazing women artists recently with her, which is Light of a Clear Blue Morning. But I would recommend reading, listening just to her sing it. For some reason. Her death, which I kind of, I think everyone was sort of expecting a little bit. This weekend, I had spent a lot of time watching her for some reason. I just, I love Dolly Parton. Wow. I can't believe. I know. Yes, I was like, oh, I think she's going to die soon. I need to be with her. Like, I've got to, like, spend time. And because she was always up and out and she wasn't, right? So you had to imagine something was going on. And one of the things that I thought about was it gives people courage or death. I know it sounds crazy, but it's like the internet was like saturated with her yesterday. All kinds of stories from regular people, the kind things she did and all manner of