Ellison's Rebrand, Netflix's Struggles, and Elon's Breakup

Pivot

Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway open with a critique of Elon Musk's public breakup with Siobhan Zillis, framing it as an oversharing, power-laden spectacle in tech culture. They then turn to

Key takeaways

• Siobhan Zillis publicly announced her breakup with Elon Musk on X, including text screenshots, after Musk unfollowed her.
• Sam Altman called Elon Musk a bully in a Vanity Fair interview and said he once had an evil caricature of Mark Zuckerberg in his head.

Main topics

• Elon Musk's breakup with Siobhan Zillis
• Cornell sexual assault allegations and fraternity culture

Notable quotes

I think that'll reflect more poorly on you.

Conclusion

The episode offers a mix of media-industry analysis and cultural comme

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:00) Support for the show comes from CoreWeave. Everywhere you look, AI is expanding what we thought was possible. And at the center of it all is CoreWeave. Medical research and diagnosis, education, complex visual effects for movies, science and technology breakthroughs. CoreWeave powers AI pioneers around the world with purpose-built tech, building what's never been built before. CoreWeave is the essential cloud for AI. Ready for anything, ready for AI. To learn more about how CoreWeave powers the world's best AI, go to coreweave.com slash ready for anything. Speaker 2 (0:34) Support for this show comes from PEGA. AI is full of possibilities. Enterprises run on realities. That's why Pega combines the world's most powerful AI with governance, transparency, and control enterprises demand. So you can move faster, adapt faster, and scale AI with confidence. All the power of AI, none of the uncertainty. Learn more at pega.com slash AI. Speaker 2 (1:03) You took an HR course? Speaker 1 (1:05) Well, I was forced to after the settlement. Speaker 2 (1:10) Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. I'm Speaker 1 (1:15) Scott Galloway. Speaker 2 (1:16) Scott, I had the best weekend. Clara turned seven and we had a witch birthday party. Speaker 1 (1:20) Really? Speaker 2 (1:21) Yes. Speaker 1 (1:22) That's exciting. God, she's seven. She's seven. That's Speaker 2 (1:24) crazy. It was such Speaker 1 (1:25) a good birthday party. Speaker 2 (1:26) Yeah? It was so good. Yeah, a lot of girls. Yeah, she had a mixed group of people. It was really fun. And Amanda, of course, baked a cake. I jokingly called her trad wife and all the other parents stared at me. Speaker 1 (1:36) Stared at me at a bad way. Speaker 2 (1:38) It was a joke. She baked a delicious cake. Speaker 1 (1:41) That's nice. Speaker 2 (1:42) Yeah, it's really nice. I can't believe how old she is. Honestly, it's crazy. And Speaker 1 (1:46) Amanda's younger than you. Yes. Speaker 2 (1:48) Oh, Speaker 1 (1:48) you mean Claire. Speaker 2 (1:49) Claire. Speaker 1 (1:51) Number three are going to go really young. Speaker 2 (1:53) I am not remarrying again. I really love Amanda Katz. Speaker 1 (1:57) You know why men marry women much younger than them? Speaker 2 (1:59) Why? Speaker 1 (2:00) Because they can, Claire. Oh, Speaker 2 (2:02) very funny. Oh, God. You're still in Los Angeles wandering around malls, I see. Speaker 1 (2:06) I am. That's how bored I got. I went to the Century City Mall. Speaker 2 (2:10) Oh, that is like dystopian. Speaker 1 (2:12) It's nice. It is. Speaker 2 (2:13) The mall is nice. Century City is. That's where they filmed one of the last Planet of the Apes. I don't know if you know that. Oh, my God. Speaker 1 (2:19) That goes way back. They filmed it right outside of the Schubert Theater where I saw a chorus line in Beatlemania with my mom. Speaker 2 (2:27) Beatlemania. I saw Beatlemania. Speaker 1 (2:30) We used to go, this is like the 70s, we used to go wait in line for tickets where people didn't show up. And occasionally you could get like a fourth row ticket for like eight bucks. I'd go with my mom to see plays at the Schubert Theater. Speaker 2 (2:42) Beatlemania. Wow. Yeah. Anyway, so you're wandering around a mall. Speaker 2 (2:49) What is he doing? I Speaker 1 (2:50) have been so cooped up. And then I walked over to the Century City Mall, and I loved it. I walked around, and I did this great review of all the retailers. I'm like, Macy's, sometimes it's darkest before it's pitch black. My favorite new brand is James Purse, Buck Mason. Oh, James Speaker 2 (3:04) Purse is nice, yeah. You have a lot of James Purse stuff that I've stolen. I know that. Speaker 1 (3:08) Do you? Yeah, those are my go-to's. Did I just say Speaker 2 (3:10) that? Yeah, they're really nice. Those are my go-to's. Yeah, I bet you were when you were in the mall. Do you remember Spencer's Gifts? I put that in the little... Spencer's Speaker 1 (3:17) Gifts? Do you remember Spencer's Speaker 2 (3:19) Gifts? Speaker 1 (3:19) No, Speaker 2 (3:19) I'm not Speaker 1 (3:19) 110. Well, Speaker 2 (3:20) come on. We're the same age. age, Scott. We're essentially the same age. Speaker 1 (3:23) Kara, you are much older than me. No, I Speaker 2 (3:25) really Speaker 1 (3:25) am. You are much, much older than me. Speaker 2 (3:27) Now, Spencer's Gifts is where they had the edible underwear that you would buy as a joke gift as a teenager. What do you mean, ugh? Speaker 1 (3:33) Ugh. I mean, ugh. Speaker 2 (3:34) Okay. Anyway, I thought you would be at that kind of mall where there'd be a Spencer's Gift. No, I Speaker 1 (3:38) love, there's an Eataly there. There Speaker 2 (3:40) is. There's a Pink Taco. There's Speaker 1 (3:42) a Shake Shack there. Speaker 2 (3:43) Yeah. I love it Speaker 1 (3:45) there. That's a Scott Speaker 2 (3:45) mall. That is a vague one. Do you know what Speaker 1 (3:48) happens? So there's always... Speaker 1 (3:51) Overnight, I used to go to Westwood every Friday and Saturday night, and we would just walk around with my friends. Walk around, yeah. We'd see girls from our rival high school, Palisades High School, and we'd see them two or three times and not talk to them. And then we'd go to Swenson's for ice cream, Speaker 2 (4:05) try and Speaker 1 (4:06) sneak into the Man Bruin or the UA Theater and see a movie or the last half of a movie, go to the poster mat and look at that picture, that poster of Farrah Fawcett. Then go to late night, go get a $3 bag from Stan's Donuts. But anyways, Westwood was thriving. And then, I don't know if you remember this, a graduate student got in the way of gunfire from gangs and was shot in the head. And no exaggeration, Speaker 2 (4:31) the Speaker 1 (4:32) next day Westwood was empty. Everyone went to Century City, and Westwood has never recovered. Speaker 2 (4:38) Oh. Never recovered. Westwood was the spot, as I recall. Yeah. Back in the day. And you were a mall rat. I didn't know that. I was a bit of a mall. Quaker Bridge Mall. The Quaker Bridge Mall. The Speaker 1 (4:48) mall was a great equalizer. It Speaker 2 (4:49) was. There Speaker 1 (4:49) were kids from all income levels, all ethnicities. You all went to the Orange Julius. Now, if the mall has an Apple and an Hermes, it's growing 5%. If it has a Macy's and, you know, I don't know. name a meddling brand, it's declining 5%. 50 % of the value of all malls in America is represented by the top 10%. Speaker 2 (5:09) They're trying to turn them into pickleball courts, some of them. Speaker 1 (5:12) Well, malls are... Basically a reflection on America. They've become very K-shaped. Speaker 2 (5:16) Yeah. Yeah, it's true. Anyway, I enjoyed you wandering around and everything else. Oh, Speaker 1 (5:20) thank Speaker 2 (5:20) you. We've got a lot to talk about this week. There's so much that happens every week. By the way, many people are complimenting me on the last two shows. They said they really enjoy us. Speaker 1 (5:28) Complimenting me. Speaker 2 (5:29) Well, you weren't there. Not complimenting us. Many people Speaker 1 (5:32) are complimenting me about Speaker 2 (5:33) us. Speaker 1 (5:33) Let Speaker 2 (5:33) me Speaker 1 (5:33) just highlight how much people are complimenting me. Speaker 2 (5:36) Complimenting me about us because they're enjoying the banter. You're such an asshole. Anyway, all right. Speaker 1 (5:43) Comments are literally, let me summarize all the comments. Can it be Scott Free August forever? I'm like, yeah. Don't Speaker 2 (5:49) read those. It's called On Speaker 1 (5:51) with Kara Swisher. Everyone's like, she should dump Scott. I'm like, she already has dumped Scott. It's called On with Kara Swisher. There is a Speaker 2 (5:58) lot of that. But that's okay. I don't care. I say no. I always push back. I do. I do. Don't read the comments. Anyway, let's start because we've got some real juicy stuff and we've got some serious stuff. But Siobhan Zillis, Elon Musk's longtime partner and mother of four of his children, says Musk has abruptly ended their relationship, didn't see that coming, and that she went from in love to let go in a week. Zillis shared the news publicly on X, including a screenshot of their recent text exchanges, responding to a post pointing out out that Musk had unfollowed her. Zillis is the director of operations at Neuralink, which is a Musk company. Scott, if you ever abruptly break up with me, I will also post our text. Speaker 1 (6:39) I think that'll reflect more poorly on you. First off, they're at 2 a.m. You text me very late. What Speaker 2 (6:46) are you doing? Speaker 1 (6:47) I can't believe you said this. I heard from Shel Sandberg. Speaker 2 (6:55) So this is so strange. I feel sad. The whole thing was such an obsequious breakup. I was like, girl, get it together. And then, of course, Ashley St. Clair, another ex, said we should have a group text thing with all the exes, which I thought was funny. Speaker 1 (7:11) Yeah. I feel even these people deserve a modicum of privacy. But when you announced your breakups on the guy's platform, Speaker 2 (7:19) can Speaker 1 (7:19) you imagine, first off, if... And I'm trying to think of, if Tom Keene, a really big reporter, anchor on Bloomberg, went on Bloomberg TV to announce he was no longer in an affair with Michael Bloomberg, Speaker 2 (7:36) it'd Speaker 1 (7:37) be strange and an HR issue. Speaker 2 (7:39) Yeah. Speaker 1 (7:39) But somehow this seems normal in these people's world. This is Speaker 2 (7:42) not an HR issue. She works for him, too. You know, it's not even that. They've been together. I mean, they've been clear. It's fine. It's fine they were together. But this was so strange. I've always thought she was very slavish towards him. And I felt this. I really did. Like the others, at least. Like Sinclair got a backbone. And, of course, you know, Justine Musk has spoken out in this new Musk documentary coming out this week. This was so odd and sad. I don't know what to say. I mean, seriously, it's this sort of, here's what it reminded me of. All of these tech people just cannot shut up about anything, including their sordid romantic problems, everything. They just have to like share. They seem to be oversharing in a way that's really quite disturbing, to me at least. Speaker 1 (8:32) I mean, my first instincts are like, she comes across as gracious, but women have agency. If I ever break up with you, I'm going to do it the Elon way. I'm going to unfollow you and let a bot break the news. Speaker 2 (8:45) Oh, God. Speaker 1 (8:46) I go back to the same thing, Cara. Yeah. Don't these people have friends? Speaker 2 (8:51) Yes, exactly. You say that a lot. That would be a good book. Isn't there someone Speaker 1 (8:55) she could have said over a couple glasses of whatever they say, rosé, or should they go founder mode on skinny margaritas or whatever they do? Right, yeah, Speaker 2 (9:03) right. Speaker 1 (9:04) Say, oh, I'm thinking of announcing our breakup on. Twitter and being- Humiliated. Yeah. And then having all these bros, these broligarch and Musk acolytes weigh in and insult me. You and your kids don't need that. Right. Speaker 2 (9:20) That's the thing. My Speaker 1 (9:21) sense of her is that regardless, you know, the genitals and the heart are the most powerful organs in history and the stupidest at the same time. Speaker 2 (9:31) Yeah. Speaker 1 (9:32) And- You know, my advice would have been to her, some of the best advice, best advice ever was given by Albert Brooks to William Hurt in Broadcast News. When he says, what happens when your real life exceeds your wildest dreams? And Albert Brooks says, keep it to yourself. Keep Speaker 2 (9:51) it to yourself. Speaker 1 (9:51) I feel Speaker 2 (9:52) like maybe there's some strategic reason for doing this. I don't know. Money? I don't know. Speaker 1 (9:58) You know what? I hadn't thought of that. I wouldn't put it past him to say. I'll give you a million dollars a month if you say great things about me on my platform. Who the fuck knows? I Speaker 2 (10:08) feel like there's a strategy going on here. It seems so pathetic. Anyway, we'll move on from Siobhan. Sorry, Siobhan. I'm sure it'll all work out eventually. Breaking up is hard to do, especially with a guy who's now a trillionaire this week because of SpaceX shares. Another one, speaking of Elon, Sam Altman called Elon Musk a bully and said, once in a while, you got to punch a bully back in the nose in a new interview with Vanity Fair where he's posing. It's not a posing happening in it. During a rapid-fire word association, Altman called Trump powerful, oh dear, Bernie Sanders consistent, and simply passed when asked about anthropic CEO Daru. Amadei. When talking about how the public views him, Altman said he once had an evil caricature of Mark Zuckerberg in his head, but realized after getting to know him that he'd been projecting. Oh, interesting. Okay, fine. Well, that's usually the case with most people. They're reasonable when you meet them, but that doesn't mean they don't do bad things. Let's do a rapid word association. Sam Altman, just that one. Speaker 1 (11:10) The gay son we all wanted and then didn't. Speaker 2 (11:17) Oh, man. All these guys go from Speaker 1 (11:20) Anakin Skywalker to Darth Vader. Speaker 2 (11:22) I know. It's really weird. All of them. That's really Speaker 1 (11:24) funny. Remember a year ago? Yeah. Speaker 2 (11:26) We all Speaker 1 (11:26) thought, in his hushed tones, well, Senator, that's a very interesting topic. Oh, I don't take any money. I don't take any money. And I mean, God, we keep falling for Sheryl Sandberg-ian. We do. Speaker 2 (11:39) We Speaker 1 (11:39) keep getting Sandberg-ed. Oh, she's different. She's the different tech executive. Speaker 1 (11:46) Oh, Speaker 2 (11:46) it's true. Anyway, he also said that we have to take some pain if we want AI. There's going to be some accidents, et cetera. I was like, oh, not for you. But it was some weird, I think it was The Verge. I think it was other podcasts where he said we have to take some pain. I Speaker 1 (12:02) actually sat two seats away from him. I sat next to him. And in between us was this lovely woman who was on Mad Men. I forget her name. She played Pete's wife. Speaker 2 (12:11) Okay. Could have been more Speaker 1 (12:12) lovely. And then it was Sam. And that was awkward. I got to be honest. It was awkward. When was Speaker 2 (12:17) it, recently? Speaker 1 (12:18) The Vanity Fair Oscars dinner. Speaker 2 (12:20) Oh, that one you went to. Oh, yeah. Interesting. Did you say, hey? Did you say, hey, girl? I Speaker 1 (12:24) said, Speaker 2 (12:24) hello. Speaker 1 (12:25) I introduced myself and shook his hand. Our only conversation was I asked him where the bathroom was. Seriously, he seemed like a nice man. Seemed like a nice man. But it was definitely awkward. I think the week before, I'd called him, like. Speaker 2 (12:37) Yeah, you had. Speaker 1 (12:38) Baby Stalin with a CS degree. Speaker 2 (12:41) He just got him again with a gay one. He is a bully. I don't understand Trump. You think Alvin's a bully? No, he called Elon a bully. Oh, yeah. Not Elon. Speaker 1 (12:51) Sam Speaker 2 (12:51) is not a bully. No. He has other talents. He's manipulative, for sure. Speaker 1 (12:56) It's not. I've learned in business school, it's not manipulation. It's management. Speaker 2 (13:00) Oh, I see. Okay, whatever. That's what we call it. Is that how you handle Speaker 1 (13:03) things? Speaker 2 (13:03) Charles O'Reilly. Speaker 1 (13:04) I took HR in business school for some reason. He's like, notice how manipulation the first three words. You Speaker 2 (13:09) took an HR course? Well, Speaker 1 (13:12) I was forced to after the settlement. Speaker 2 (13:14) That's like, Speaker 1 (13:14) you Speaker 2 (13:16) actually went to school about HR? They don't call it HR. They call it. Speaker 1 (13:22) They call it organizational behavior, but you know what all HR classes should be called? What? I could get everyone through business school in one semester and save everyone 75%. Speaker 2 (13:31) All Speaker 1 (13:32) HR should be called, use your common sense. Speaker 2 (13:36) Use your common sense. Use your Speaker 1 (13:37) common sense. And also, any guy that becomes an officer of a company, your fly is up and locked. Speaker 2 (13:46) All right. Okay. That's a fantastic course. Well, no, but Speaker 1 (13:49) I'm being honest here. When I'm Speaker 2 (13:51) on Speaker 1 (13:51) boards, we always deal with these issues. Speaker 2 (13:53) Yeah. There's a lot of different. Speaker 1 (13:55) Young people, you ask young people to be in a closed environment intense situation, they're going