Carrie, Kill Jackie, and Pierre. With guests Sienna Miller and Dominic West

Pilot TV

This episode of Pilot TV features reviews of three new series—Stephen King's Carrie on Prime Video, the violent thriller Kill Jackie also on Prime, and David Harewood-led

Key takeaways

• Sienna Miller and Dominic West credit their prior stage work together in As You Like It for helping them navigate the promotional tour for War with humor rather than tension.
• The NYT list sparked controversy by excluding pre-2000 shows like The Sopranos and The West Wing, while ranking Breaking Bad at number one and Fleabag at five.

Main topics

• TV show reviews (Carrie, Kill Jackie, Pierre)
• Actor interview (Sienna Miller & Dominic West on War)

Notable quotes

"I think it's really difficult when you have a cinematic masterpiece and then there's a part of it... why, what are you going to bring that's different?"

Conclusion

Listeners gain a balanced, spoiler-aware guide to this week's most tal

Transcript preview

Speaker 5 (0:07) On Pilot TV this week, we are going back to school with Stephen King's Carrie on Prime Video, gunning for Catherine Zeta-Jones in Kill Jackie, also on Prime, and taking care of the little people with David Harewood in Pierre on Channel 4. Plus, we are joined by both Dominic West and Sienna Miller, who are here to talk about war on Sky. Speaker 5 (0:27) I'm James Dyer and welcome to Pilot TV, your essential guide to every show that matters. And joining me this week in the studio are three very important things. Number one, we have Boyd Hilton, the prognosticator of all things televisual and purveyor of spoilers. How are you? Speaker 4 (0:42) I'm very well, thank you. Speaker 5 (0:43) Good, good, good. Number two is Steph Seelan, of course, snorter of milk bottles and headbutter of hard impact resistant surfaces. Speaker 2 (0:50) Indeed. Yeah, Speaker 5 (0:51) that is you. And three, Speaker 2 (0:52) number Speaker 5 (0:53) three. Speaker 2 (0:53) Oh, Speaker 5 (0:54) here we go. is a big bag of chocolate. Yay! So, this was from Paul the Wine Guy. I alluded to this last week. And when I say alluded, I, of course, mean I just told you. And it was a letter from Paul, and it says, Chocolate tasting, not quite Tom Cruise cake standard, but herewith a selection from which to draw a fave. Obviously, the subject of yore. Sweet tooth came up here. These have been purchased in various European countries over the course of the last year, prompted by a conversation in 2025. Hopefully all still in date, though he's not promising. So there we go. Anyway, anyway, and I have checked notes again. This is a TV podcast. Are you sure? We should maybe, maybe shift away from chocolatey goodness and onto televisual fun. So let's begin with Boydie. Boydie, what have you watched this week? And if I sit here eating dairy milk when you talk, don't look askance at me. Speaker 4 (1:43) Well, there's a show that we could have reviewed, but you, being a fascist dictator, decided we were reviewing other shows, and that is The Reluctant Vampire. Oh, right. Oh, Speaker 2 (1:53) I think Speaker 4 (1:53) we're Speaker 2 (1:54) going Speaker 4 (1:54) to Speaker 2 (1:54) do Speaker 4 (1:54) that Speaker 2 (1:54) next week. Are we? Speaker 4 (1:55) Oh, I don't know. As this goes out, we started yesterday on Sunday. Okay. But, you know, maybe we will. Well, I Speaker 2 (2:01) hate to stick up for him, but I will just say, I do believe he's, he actually is eating the dairy milk, but I would say, I thought he said, maybe we'll do the Vampiron Plus. But, you know, carry on. Well, it's not on Speaker 4 (2:11) the, if he did say that, it's not on the campaign. We have already established. Established? Established. Speaker 2 (2:16) We have Speaker 4 (2:17) established. Speaker 2 (2:17) We have already established. We have established. We have established. We have established. We Speaker 5 (2:20) have established. that Steph has not got a love for vampire films and TV shows. Yeah, but we said this is vampire safe. Speaker 2 (2:32) This is a Speaker 4 (2:32) comedy. And Speaker 2 (2:34) also, I'm just going to correct you in that I went back and watched the vampire shows and I liked them. I have got a particular version to people trying to kill me if I say I don't like a vampire show. Speaker 4 (2:44) Go on. The word vampire should not be an automatic... And this is why we're not reviewing it. Speaker 2 (2:49) Go for it, because I love Big Tom. Now he's Speaker 4 (2:51) saying we're not reviewing it. All I'll say is it's wonderful. It's on... BBC One it's on Sunday evening it's kind of like 6.30 6.40 so it's kind of like family friendly but not like it's not like a kids show but it's one of those like kind of old school family friendly shows it's based on books by Eric Morecambe of Morecambe Wise fame this is fantastic it stars Lenny Rush from Am I Being Unreasonable and most recently Slow Horses as the kind of struggling with being a vampire. And his dad is head of the vampires, played by Heat, favourite Tom Davis, friend of the pod, friend of Heat. We should have got him Speaker 2 (3:24) in. Yeah, he was fantastic in it. Speaker 4 (3:27) Everyone's fantastic in it. Sean Clifford from Fleetback is his mother. I mean, brilliant. And supporting cast, Joe Wilkinson, Asim Chowdhury, Charlie Cooper, Esther Smith from, you know... I Speaker 2 (3:39) mean, I'm sold. What's the premise? Tell me what it's about. The premise Speaker 4 (3:42) is that Lenny Rush's character, the son of these two vampires, actually isn't, turns out actually to be human. So that's why he particularly struggles with... vampire rules and regulations, so to speak. But it's just, Bill Bailey, Ross and I, I'm just still listening, comedians as well. It's just really good fun and everyone in it is brilliant and Tom Davis is as good as ever. Did Speaker 2 (4:01) Tom Davis, is it a creation of Tom Davis? Speaker 4 (4:03) No, sorry, thanks for reminding me of that. So it's based on these Eric Morecambe stories but it's been adapted by the Gibbons brothers who write the Alan Partridge stuff now. So I mean, it doesn't get much more. The quality of the cast and the writing. And it's beautifully made. The thing I would actually like to do in a way is Ghosts, which is a film of Ghosts coming up soon. I'd like that. It's got that kind of funny kind of vibe to it with supernatural kind of elements to it. It's got that. And Ghosts, as we know, is absolutely brilliant. Speaker 2 (4:34) Limited series? How many? No, I could go on and on. Speaker 4 (4:37) Hopefully. I'm excited, yeah. So I've been watching that. You Speaker 2 (4:40) won't watch it, James. Speaker 4 (4:41) No. As this goes out... Speaker 4 (4:45) Celebrity Traitors will have aired the first two episodes. So Speaker 2 (4:47) we're going to, you and I are on the Celebrity Traitors, yeah? You've always been committed. I've never watched it before, so I'm going to watch this season. You've never watched it before? I told you this. Yeah, because again, I'm not Kay, remember? We've had this conversation. No, you're a different person. So I'm one Speaker 4 (5:02) of Speaker 2 (5:02) the only people who's not a traitor. I've never watched any traitors whatsoever. And Speaker 4 (5:07) you and James. Speaker 2 (5:07) Yeah. James is smiling because he's like, oh yeah, we are the same. No, we're not. Because now I'm going to, I'm now going to watch celebrity traitors because I need to know what this is all about and everybody loves it. Speaker 4 (5:18) Well, there's one of our listeners wrote in, didn't they, which we talked to on Plus. Yes, one of our American listeners. American listeners saying, Can we warn them because... Margot Speaker 2 (5:25) did. Margot's got traitor problems. Speaker 4 (5:27) Like American traitors, when we want to watch American traitors, which is what they Speaker 3 (5:31) put Speaker 4 (5:31) out usually after the British traitors, they'll put it out all on one go on BBC iPlayer or whatever. And similarly, clearly, she was saying, they'll have to wait until the whole series plays out and then they'll show it on American TV or whatever. Speaker 2 (5:43) Yeah. Speaker 4 (5:43) So here's your warning. I'm just going to mention one thing in the next 30 seconds. Speaker 2 (5:48) Margot, leave the room, Margot. Speaker 4 (5:50) She's gone. James is at the kick. James is like looking askance. His eyebrow is raised. I feel like, Speaker 5 (5:54) you know, one of those judges in a legal drama when he's just like, Speaker 4 (5:57) you're on a short leech, counsellor. Yeah. Speaker 5 (5:59) We'll Speaker 2 (5:59) see Speaker 4 (6:00) where this goes. Okay. Don't make me hold you in contempt. Hold on. Speaker 2 (6:02) I'll allow it. Speaker 4 (6:03) Yeah. Yeah. Three words. Richard E. Grant. Speaker 2 (6:07) Well, you know I love Speaker 4 (6:08) Richard E. Grant. Richard E. Grant is so funny in... Celebrity Traitors. And by now, everyone would have seen it or who's interested in it because this is like, this will be Thursday or Speaker 1 (6:20) Friday. He Speaker 4 (6:20) demands a national treasure. We've got three days on. Global treasure. Honestly, I'm telling you now, we're recording this the day before the first episode. And once the first episode is done, he is going to be propelled into celebrity... celebrity traitors' superstardom. Speaker 2 (6:35) Really? Such is Speaker 4 (6:36) his impact on the show and on the game that you will see in the first episode. It is hilarious. It's mind-blowing. I cannot... Honestly, it sounds like I'm exaggerating. I don't think you are. It's so funny what he gets up to, and he is so entertaining and funny. Genius casting. The cast in general is brilliant. It's got everyone in it. Last year, I would say there was a couple of people who maybe were slightly annoying and irritating, but this time, so far, they're all really fun and kind of having a good time, but then this thing happens with him. So I'm kind of not spoiling it entirely. I'm dancing around it a bit, but just, you know. Some will consider this a slight spoiler, but it's all about him and what happens to him and what he does and what he says. Speaker 2 (7:16) Did you see when he got to a million followers on Instagram that he reenacted Miss Congeniality, one of my favourite films, Miss Congeniality, the pageant moment? Yeah. She's one in a million. Oh my God, it's so funny. He's Speaker 4 (7:28) really done brilliantly. With Speaker 2 (7:30) a Speaker 4 (7:30) whole crown and everything. Yeah, he's done brilliantly on social media and everything. He's really embraced kind of all Speaker 2 (7:34) the different... Speaker 4 (7:34) Yeah, because he's wonderful. Yeah. But, you know, people like Robin Romesh are in it. Everyone in it is really entertaining. As you'd expect, Miranda is fantastically entertaining. But yeah, it's all about Richard E. Grant. Speaker 2 (7:46) He's doing the high eyebrows now, so Speaker 4 (7:48) you Speaker 2 (7:48) need to stop. Speaker 4 (7:48) I'm sorry. That's it. I'm back. We're back. Back in the room. Back in the room. For Traitors. Back in the room. Traitors, Delayers, or Traitors, Haters, or whatever. Speaker 2 (7:57) Traitors, Haters. Love that. Speaker 4 (8:00) I mentioned SNL UK last week. They've announced, you do this in news, the next three hosts, which are Cynthia Erivo. Is that how you pronounce it? Erivo. Cynthia Speaker 2 (8:11) Erivo, I think it is. Oh, I really don't Speaker 4 (8:15) want Speaker 2 (8:15) to be saying that wrong, so... Speaker 4 (8:16) Anyway. James Norton. We all know how to pronounce that. James Norton. It's Norton. Norton. Not only. These are the next three hosts, but they've just done a brilliant job. I think I mentioned this briefly last week. I think they've done a fantastic job, particularly this second series, of sneaking in quite controversial jokes, particularly into the weekend update segment. Fuck, Speaker 2 (8:38) sorry. Are we right? Yeah. Speaker 2 (8:41) It Speaker 4 (8:42) is Erivo. Cynthia Speaker 2 (8:43) Erivo. So Speaker 4 (8:44) you're correct. Speaker 2 (8:44) Oh, I am right. Oh, yeah, Speaker 5 (8:46) we're the ones who said Erivo. And have you heard her say this? Or are you just, you know, guessing? Cynthia Erivo's Speaker 2 (8:52) last name is pronounced Erivo. And I would say, I feel like I've probably watched more things. Your full name for us? Cynthia Erivo. Speaker 5 (9:00) Shit. Speaker 4 (9:00) Oh, well, never mind. Anyway, she, Theorivo, is hosting the next SNL UK. But I'm saying what a brilliant job they've done of making topical comedy relevant again. And they've really gone out there. And I love the fact that Sky lets them do this thing. Obviously, they do it live. I don't think they run all the jokes. Maybe they do by Sky. In fact, they do a bit. But it's quite controversial, the stuff they make jokes about. And I think I'm very impressed with it. And I did a panel. for the Royal Television Society London Convention, as they call it, which was a panel about the state of comedy right now. And on that panel... I can't believe I wasn't invited to participate. It was a panel Speaker 2 (9:41) about the state of comedy. British Speaker 4 (9:44) comedy. Like, British comedy, is it, you know, why... I've got Speaker 2 (9:48) a Speaker 4 (9:48) lot to say about the state of comedy. Wait till you get up. There's Speaker 5 (9:51) a Speaker 4 (9:51) particular relevance to you coming up. This is why I'm mentioning it. Okay. Just to be able to dig up to it. It's very James Pertinent. So on the panel were Ayoade Bamboye, who is in SNL UK and who is brilliant. Johnny Salmon who did Dreaming Whilst Black. Oh, I really love that. Oh, Speaker 2 (10:09) with Speaker 4 (10:09) the sweater. He had his sweater on. Did you ask him about the Speaker 5 (10:12) sweater? The Speaker 2 (10:13) cloud Speaker 5 (10:13) jumper. I asked him about the sweater when I interviewed him for this podcast. Isn't jumper just the British word and sweater is the American word? No, no. Is there a distinction? Absolutely Speaker 2 (10:21) not. A jumper is of knit base and a sweater is, you know, like when you get the, you know, like what jogging bottoms are made Speaker 4 (10:28) of. Isn't that a sweatshirt? Yeah, that's a sweatshirt, isn't it? Speaker 2 (10:30) Yeah, and what's the shortened word for sweatshirt, guys? Sweater. Speaker 4 (10:33) No, Speaker 2 (10:33) I think Speaker 5 (10:34) a sweatshirt and a sweater are different things in the American language. No, Speaker 2 (10:37) no. Speaker 5 (10:37) They Speaker 2 (10:37) don't say jumper in the American language. No, Speaker 5 (10:39) they Speaker 2 (10:39) say Speaker 5 (10:39) sweater and sweatshirt. Yeah, that's Speaker 4 (10:40) an American Speaker 5 (10:41) thing. But Speaker 2 (10:41) we're not in America, we're in the UK. And here, that's what a sweater is. And a jumper is if it's knitted. You Speaker 5 (10:47) managed with that interjection stuff to be both right and wrong at the same time, which was actually impressive. Speaker 2 (10:52) God, I'm really good at being right and wrong at the same time in this podcast. Speaker 4 (10:55) Anyway, he was, John Lee's son was not wearing that sweater, but he was wearing a very nice... You could have found out where he got it. No, Speaker 2 (11:01) no, Speaker 4 (11:01) no. I'm Speaker 2 (11:02) sure the internet will tell us. I'm sure I asked him Speaker 4 (11:03) about that before. Anyway, if you go back to when I interviewed him last time. Anyway. Anyway, he was on the panel. Ruth Phillips, the executive producer of Last One Laughing, was on Speaker 2 (11:11) it. Speaker 4 (11:11) Oh, lovely. And John Toaday, who is the chair of Avalon, who's a big agency for comedians. Anyway, one of the reasons I mentioned it is because Ayoade was brilliant talking about SNL and how... her journey but also Ruth Phillips the producer of Lost for Nothing brought up the fact that silly comedy she wants silly comedy in James' face this is why I mention it to make a big comeback because she was encouraging she was encouraging silliness yes such as the ambassador of silliness Speaker 5 (11:39) like any I Speaker 4 (11:40) guess like Last One Laughing in itself has lots of silly elements to it because they have silly tasks they have to do to try and make each other laugh. Yeah. That's fine to be silly. Right, yeah. I will allow it. Thank you. Yeah, completely. Silly comedy can be absolutely brilliant because he had a bit of slapstick in Dream Whilst Black, if you remember, and he was open to it. And in the end, that was one of the main messages. Let's all embrace silly Speaker 2 (12:02) comedy. Speaker 4 (12:03) I think just in general Speaker 2 (12:04) in life we should be open to silliness. And I was sharing this Speaker 4 (12:06) thing where Speaker 2 (12:06) I Speaker 4 (12:06) was sat in the middle of these great talents and I just kept thinking of James. It's like he infested my mind. so much I was thinking if he was here he could contribute to this my kryptonite silly Speaker 5 (12:15) comedy yeah it's his Speaker 4 (12:16) kryptonite so that's how much he's affected me Speaker 5 (12:19) sorry Speaker 4 (12:20) it's alright I'll cope and that's about it that is mainly what I've been watching plus what I've been hosting okay right Speaker 2 (12:27) would you like to know what I've been watching I'm Speaker 4 (12:30) not sure tell me okay Speaker 2 (12:31) well I have been watching Carrying on with East of Eden, which, as I've told you, if you listen to Plus, and if you don't listen Speaker 5 (12:37) to Plus... Speaker 2 (12:37) If you listen to Speaker 5 (12:38) Steph's 20-minute monologue about American literature on the latest pilot Plus... Speaker 2 (12:43) Okay. Right. I was very excited by East of Eden because if you don't subscribe and you don't listen to us, you won't know. But I'll just tell you that East of Eden is coming out on Netflix and it is Florence Pugh's, absolutely Florence Pugh's show, but Christopher Abbott's also brilliant. Everyone's brilliant in it. And it is the adaptation of John Steinbeck novel, East of Eden, which is a sprawling epic set. just after the American Civil War and sort of during the American Civil War. Anyway, I won't do that monologue again. Anyway, it's wonderful. And Florence Pugh is amazing. And I just think it's happening at a time when lots of other things are happening in the news to do with women and consent and stuff like that. And it's just, she's spoken out about it. And in myriad ways, this is a wonderful show. Please, please, please, please watch it because it's so... and the performances are so amazing. I loved it more than these two loved it, but you did like it. But Speaker 4 (13:35) you've watched more of it. I've watched more of it. And that's Speaker 2 (13:37) amazing. And then I watched, right, I remember, do you remember a couple of episodes ago when we were talking about what's coming up and you were saying, oh, a different world's coming up on Netflix. neither of you had ever heard. And I was like, oh, is that a remake? Had you? Yeah, yeah, totally. I've watched it, but I've heard Speaker 1 (13:54) of it. This Speaker 2 (13:54) one had no interest. And I said, oh, you didn't, did anyone watch the original A Different World? So did you watch the original? No, I didn't Speaker 4 (14:00) watch the original, but I'm still aware of it. Speaker 2 (14:02) So Speaker 4 (14:02) you Speaker 2 (14:02) don't know. So A Different World, I watched A Different World because he who shall not be named, who had the family... Voldemort. No, no, worse. Your husband. Oh, worse. No, not worse. Right. He who shall not be named, who... I'm just going to refer to you as Dr. Huxtable, Speaker 1 (14:19) who had the show. Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay. So a spinoff of his show, Lisa Bonet was in the spinoff. So she goes off Speaker 2 (14:27) to college, and there began A Different World, okay? And A Different Girl was based in a fictional... A Different World. So A Different Speaker 5 (14:37) World, but the same girl. Speaker 2 (14:39) Well, listen. Just listen. Speaker 4 (14:43) We're gaslighting it now. Speaker 2 (14:44) So it was based in the fictional Hillman College. It was a black college. And so it was very much part of a time where black Americans represented on American media. And it was kind of a big thing. I watched it because we were big fans of He Who Shall No Longer Be Named and He's an Awful Human Being. We watched that show religiously in my house. Speaker 2 (15:08) So I don't really know why someone at this point has decided. So it ran for, I think, six seasons from 1987, right? And Lisa Bonet was only in the first season. And it was kind of this group of people at college. And it was, you know, the goings on of what happened in that college. So it was great of its time, in and of its time. I don't know why. they've decided to remake it. But let me tell you the basis of this remake. The basis of this remake is now the children of those people are Speaker 1 (15:40) now going to Hillman College. Yeah, Speaker 2 (15:43) and again, it is this fictional Hillman and it's basically the same premise. They're at this college and it's supposed to be a bit funny. But what they've also done is they've got returning cast members of the original cast. Again, a touch I really like. Is Speaker 4 (16:00) B Speaker 2 (16:00) 'nai in it? Bonet has not appeared. But, okay, it's funny. So they, I went back and I watched the first ever episode of A Different World in 1987, which was called Reconcilable Differences. And they've called this one Irreconcilable Differences, or it's the other way around, I can't remember. And anyway, it's got... Jasmine Guy, I don't know if you know that actress, and she plays Whitley Gilbert, and she was a big main character. She's this amazing actress, a real great comedy actress, and she's got a very specific American kind of Texan kind of accent. I think it's Texan. Anyway. And she's returning and they're just, you know, there is something like, I'm not going to be, they're just sort of, it feels tired with them returning and it's a strange kind of thing to remake. But my fear is, They'll remake everything in the end. I know, but I think that was a great show in and of its Speaker 4 (16:53) time. Speaker 2 (16:53) I Speaker 4 (16:53) think Speaker 2 (16:53) in America it was a Speaker 4 (16:54) much bigger deal than it was here, wasn't it? Speaker 2 (16:56) Yeah, and I think in my household we watched all those kinds of things. Speaker 4 (16:59) So, Speaker 2 (16:59) yeah, so it's remakes, like half hour comedy. It's interesting if you used to watch A Different World to go back and like see and see how fucking, old everyone's got and they're trying to obviously give it the bit of this kind of teen twist and there's love interest and stuff like that. But the reason I bring the fact that I've watched this up is I just want to make a controversial point as well. I was looking into it and I was thinking why have they remade it? And it turns out that, which may put people off reading it, is that he who shall not be named receives payment and still has intellectual property rights to this format and this show and so he's receiving money off this. So my question is, do we think that's really bad? Speaker 4 (17:38) I think, you know, if you're going to remake a show that happens to have been produced in some way by a wrong-un, Speaker 2 (17:44) then Speaker 4 (17:44) you must use different, I think, to kind of... say that you can't remake something because that's Speaker 2 (17:50) my point yeah if he was Speaker 4 (17:52) involved creatively that would have been a choice Speaker 2 (17:54) to remake it when they when you know he's going to benefit from that and he is such a woman it's interesting to me in the tv in the scope of tv where you can make anything i find that a really interesting concept that we choose to remake something that not I don't know who, someone's calling for it. I mean, like I say, I watched the original, I liked it, but I don't think there's a big like, oh, we must remake a different world. If you can remake lots of other things, why make this when someone is going to benefit like that? Interesting, no? No, it's interesting, yeah. James? Speaker 5 (18:22) Well, since I don't know what you're talking about, I'm just going to nod and go, hmm. Speaker 2 (18:27) Do you think that a convicted criminal... She's talking about Bill Cosby. Yeah. Right, Speaker 5 (18:30) okay. I didn't know who you were... I don't want Speaker 2 (18:33) to Speaker 5 (18:33) name who she's speaking about. So Speaker 2 (18:36) anyway, that's really where I was... But I did watch it and then I thought, oh God, I've probably given him some money. But yeah, my overall opinion of it is don't watch Speaker 4 (18:45) it because it's not very good. Oh. Speaker 2 (18:47) Yeah. Well, Speaker 4 (18:48) I mean, that's probably... But that's what I had watched because Speaker 2 (18:50) I'm very deep into East of Eden. But I was interested in it. And then when I found out that he was going to, after I'd watched it, he was going to make money from it, I was like, oh, no, I don't know. But interesting anyway. How many other, you know, bad people are making money off TV? It's just an interesting point that I wanted to bring up with you lovely people. Speaker 4 (19:07) Okay. Speaker 2 (19:08) There you go. Speaker 4 (19:09) And you have. Speaker 2 (19:09) And I have. And you have. Yeah. What have you been watching? I Speaker 5 (19:12) mean, nothing. What? I mean, really, kind of nothing. What do you mean? I haven't really watched anything. Why? Speaker 4 (19:17) I mean, Speaker 5 (19:18) mainly I've been playing a video game. Oh, this is controversial. So I've been doing this thing again where I get sucked into a game and then I'm incapable of watching a TV. Hold Speaker 2 (19:27) on, I'm Speaker 5 (19:27) just Speaker 2 (19:27) going Speaker 5 (19:27) to check Speaker 2 (19:27) my notes because this is a TV podcast. Speaker 5 (19:30) Yeah, Speaker 2 (19:30) I Speaker 5 (19:30) know. It's tricky, isn't it? Although I will say YouTube have been banging on about vampires and it's a game about vampires. So is that allowed? Okay, yeah, that's allowed. Because Speaker 2 (19:36) it's Speaker 5 (19:36) thematically connected to The Reluctant Vampire and I was reluctantly playing a game about a vampire. What Speaker 2 (19:42) is the game? Speaker 5 (19:43) It's called Blood of Dawnwalker and it's wonderful. Speaker 2 (19:46) And how many hours of your life did you dedicate this? We Speaker 5 (19:49) don't talk about that. Speaker 2 (19:50) Yeah, we do. Many, many Speaker 5 (19:51) hours. Speaker 2 (19:51) Nine? Speaker 5 (19:53) At this point, probably more than that. But yeah, it's been fun. It's by Speaker 4 (19:57) some of Speaker 5 (19:57) the devs of The Witcher 3. Speaker 4 (19:59) Aren't you worried that some of the Redditors, for example, might be furious with you for not watching television? Well, the thing is, I Speaker 5 (20:06) only watched one thing. They love him on the Speaker 2 (20:07) Reddit. Everyone loves you. I Speaker 5 (20:09) don't think that's true. But I did watch one thing, but I don't want to talk about it because it's tedious, because I have mentioned Star Trek Strange New Worlds for the last two podcasts, and I finished watching the last two episodes of Strange New Worlds. The serious one, which had Joe Morton in it, was actually really, really good, and then the Final Fantasy silly one, which is... another silly one but it's actually quite fun because Christina Chong's genuinely very funny so it was okay. My Speaker 2 (20:33) favourite thing about you is when you say you're not going to talk about it and then you continue Speaker 4 (20:36) to talk about it. Speaker 2 (20:37) Okay and that's all you've got. So do you want to tell us about this game? Speaker 4 (20:40) I mean. No I don't think we need to. Speaker 5 (20:42) Well you play a character called Cohen and he's like a half vampire half witch and during the day he's a witch and at night he's a vampire and you have to go and get other vampires and it's set in like medieval Europe in the Carpathian Mountains. That Speaker 2 (20:54) actually sounds fun. During the time of the Speaker 5 (20:55) Black Death. Speaker 2 (20:56) During the time of the Black Death? Yeah, Speaker 4 (20:57) that's right. Speaker 2 (20:58) Okay, so speak in... The Speaker 4 (21:00) question is, we'll link it back into this podcast legitimately, is will they make a TV version of it? We can only hope. But there hasn't been... Not that I'm aware of, but I really hope there Speaker 5 (21:09) is one. I bet you do, because it's great. Why is Speaker 2 (21:13) it Speaker 5 (21:13) so Speaker 2 (21:13) great? Speaker 5 (21:13) It's very immersive, it's very fun, the gameplay is great, and it's a really good story. And actually, and this isn't always the case with voice acting in games, the voice acting is very good. Who does the voices? A bunch of people. Do you know what? The main guy really sounds like Harry Lloyd. Like, really sounds like Harry Lloyd. And I now need to look up exactly who it is. Have you Speaker 2 (21:32) had to get your joystick out to play this game? Beg Speaker 5 (21:34) your pardon? You know what I'm saying. That's Speaker 2 (21:36) a Speaker 5 (21:36) very personal question. It's very juvenile of me to find that funny. Speaker 4 (21:40) It's very Speaker 2 (21:40) juvenile of me to say it. I don't Speaker 4 (21:43) really want to have to think about James' joystick at this moment. No, it's Will Dorenzy Martin who Speaker 5 (21:47) actually plays the main character. He's not Speaker 4 (21:49) in Speaker 5 (21:49) fact Harry Lloyd, Speaker 4 (21:50) but he does sound like Harry Lloyd. This is also why you've abrogated your responsibility to watch TV. Oh my God, that is Speaker 2 (21:57) word of the pod. This is an Speaker 4 (21:58) abrogation. And didn't even watch, go and see Digger, the film Digger, because he's been playing, which is for the Empire podcast. So you just abandoned all... I did, yeah. You Speaker 2 (22:06) abandoned it so you could get home, get your joystick out and get down with the vampires. That's literally Speaker 4 (22:11) what happened. Speaker 5 (22:12) Is Speaker 2 (22:12) it a Tappy Tappy? I always ask you this when you talk about your games. Is it a Tappy Tappy or is it a joystick? It Speaker 5 (22:17) was a game pad. A game pad. So it's a Thummy Thummy. Is it PlayStation? Yes. Speaker 2 (22:24) PS5? I Speaker 5 (22:25) am playing it on that, yes. Speaker 2 (22:27) Do you play it in a particular room? Speaker 5 (22:29) Yes, the front room. Speaker 2 (22:31) Because I remember I went to your house once and there was like a games room. Speaker 5 (22:36) You've never been to the house that I live in now. Speaker 2 (22:38) No, why haven't you? invited me. Speaker 5 (22:39) Why I wasn't invited to your wedding, Steph? These are the questions that need answering. Speaker 2 (22:43) Oh, look, the Speaker 5 (22:44) subject has been changed. There we go. Yes, so that's what I've been doing. I've been playing games and not watching TV. So I apologise for my dereliction of beauty. Speaker 4 (22:53) And also not reviewing films either. And also not reviewing films. Let me quickly say, I know this is a TV podcast and not a film, but I need this to express the fact that I think Digger, the Tom Cruise film, Speaker 2 (23:04) is Speaker 4 (23:04) the worst Speaker 2 (23:04) film ever. Speaker 4 (23:05) It's the most annoying film for a long time. I Speaker 2 (23:07) mean, you can tell Speaker 4 (23:07) that Speaker 2 (23:07) I can't Speaker 4 (23:07) wait for that. It's the most annoying film by far of the year. It's so fucking irritating. Yeah, Speaker 2 (23:12) but you can tell that, like, you can, like, you watch the trailer, like, because I was going to go last night, and then I was like, no, I'm not dragging myself into London for something where the trailer looks so annoying. Speaker 4 (23:23) Yeah, but it's even more annoying than you can possibly imagine. Why have they Speaker 2 (23:25) made it then? Speaker 4 (23:27) Because it's a big ego thing. You know, yeah, the director is self-indulgent. Tom Cruise thought he could get an Oscar, but Speaker 5 (23:32) in fact, he's telling you about flying because the Speaker 4 (23:34) role he's in. Well, Speaker 5 (23:34) boy, maybe you should come on the Empire podcast and talk about it. I'm Speaker 4 (23:36) available. Speaker 5 (23:37) Always available. Because we're going to be talking about it later on the Empire podcast. So you can come and talk about it then. Okay. Speaker 2 (23:41) Are we going to do our Band of Brothers rewatch? Two questions I have to ask you. Speaker 5 (23:45) I would like to rewatch Band of Brothers, but how am I going to do that and watch Mare of Kingstown? And play your stupid video game. That's my second question. Which Speaker 2 (23:52) one are you going to do? You have to commit to at least one. You're either a Band of Brothers rewatch or Mare of King's Down. And I will just say Mare of King's Down Season 5 is going to be out in October. Speaker 5 (24:01) I mean, see, you're making this very difficult. Because I actually quite fancy a Band of Brothers rewatch. Because actually, there's only like one season of Band of Brothers, right? Speaker 2 (24:09) Yes, ten episodes. So it's actually Speaker 5 (24:10) quite manageable. Speaker 2 (24:11) Yes, it's totally manageable. Speaker 5 (24:12) And then we were going to do a special, weren't we? We were going to do a little Band of Brothers retrospective special. Maybe we'll do that. Speaker 2 (24:19) No, Boyd's not involved. Speaker 5 (24:21) Boyd's abstaining. Yeah. Because he doesn't do re-watches. Yeah. Not really. Do you Speaker 2 (24:25) know what? It's the 10-year anniversary of Insecure, which is Issa Rae's amazing comedy. You won't watch it because it's slightly comedic. And if you haven't watched Insecure, it's actually absolutely unbelievable. So I'm going to plug that as well because it's really good. Can I just Speaker 4 (24:37) say, I was just looking up the different world things. I was trying to kind of look exactly how it affected things. And all I've come up with is the Guardian Review. What do they say? They say richly rewarding. And Netflix's A Different World is the only TV reboot worth watching this year. Speaker 2 (24:53) I mean, I only watched one, but I would like to know if that reviewer watched the first iteration of it, because that is very of its time. I believe so. Speaker 5 (25:03) Look, we've been talking about Band of Brothers, we've been talking about greatest TV shows. I believe this is an excellent segue into the talking point that we were going to bring up this week, which is the recently released New York Times list of the greatest television shows of the 20... century. Speaker 2 (25:18) Yes. Speaker 5 (25:18) Now, on the one hand, and I'm going to get this out of the way just straight off the top because I feel like this has to be addressed because the BBC did this as well when you and I, Boydie, voted in the BBC's list of the 100 greatest shows of the 21st century. They disqualify anything that began before the turn of the millennium. Yes. Now, on the one hand, that kind of saves you from having to deal with a lot of legacy shows like Columbo and whatnot. But, on the other hand, it does rule out two of the greatest TV shows of all time, The Sopranos and The West Wing, both of which started in 1999. I put it to you that they should both be considered because the vast majority of those shows take place in the noughties. Speaker 4 (25:59) Well, I throw in Queer as Focus, which was also in 1999. 1999 was Speaker 5 (26:02) a brilliant year for TV and obviously, yeah, those shows Speaker 4 (26:04) take a very... Can I also... It's good that we make it that clear because I... I, on Twitter and social media, alluded to a few, or talked about a few of the issues with this top 100. And I got an avalanche of people saying, why isn't the Sopranos in it? And Speaker 5 (26:18)