How to Stop Feeling Like You’re Never Doing Enough | Caleb Campbell - EP 813

Passion Struck with John R. Miles

In this episode of Passion Struck, host John R. Miles interviews Caleb Campbell, a former NFL player, West Point graduate, and author of 'Unstriving.' The

Key takeaways

• Achievement and performance can become a prison if they define your identity.
• The fear of failure often stems from protecting an outdated self, not from ambition itself.

Main topics

• Identity and performance
• The liminal space of personal transformation

Notable quotes

The version of who I am today needs to die because it is not capable of creating the life that I want to live tomorrow.

Conclusion

This episode challenges listeners to rethink ambition not as a measure of worth but as a path toward

Transcript preview

Speaker 3 (0:00) What if the version of yourself that helped you succeed is now the very thing keeping you stuck? Caleb Campbell spent years building an identity around achievement. He was the captain of his West Point football team, an army officer, an NFL player, and someone who had learned early in life that performance was how he earned acceptance and belonging. But when that identity was finally put to the test, he discovered something he hadn't expected. He had become so afraid of failing that he was protecting himself from giving everything he had. And what Caleb told me about what was really happening underneath that fear stopped me in my tracks. Take a listen to this. Speaker 4 (0:40) The version of who I am today needs to die because it is not capable of creating the life that I want to live tomorrow. And that's ultimately the deeper work that I was avoiding by making excuses. in my life and avoiding giving it all that I had because I didn't have the capacity, the tools, the awareness or the guidance to navigate the liminal space that I would inevitably have to cross over to go from who I used to be to who I needed to become. Speaker 3 (1:09) It's your friend John and welcome to Passion Struck. I'm so glad you're here. Whether you're a longtime listener or someone who just discovered the show, thank you for pressing play today. Maybe you've built the life you were supposed to want, but you've quietly wondered why it still doesn't feel like enough. If that's you, you're in the right place. Every week, I sit down with the world's top scientists, researchers, and thinkers to uncover what it actually takes to build an intentional life that matters. Thanks for joining me. Let's get into it. Speaker 3 (1:49) Welcome back to episode 813 of Passion Struck. We're continuing our series, The Adaptive Brain, how your mind learns, changes, and heals. And today I'm doing something a little different. Instead of my usual Momentum Friday solo episode, I'm bringing you a conversation with Caleb Campbell. Over the past few weeks, we've been exploring the forces that shape who we become, our biology, our environment, our relationships, our choices, and even the stories we tell ourselves. But there's another piece of that puzzle. What happens when the identity that helped you succeed is no longer the identity you need? Because sometimes the very things that make us successful can become the things that keep us stuck. That's what makes today's conversation with Caleb so powerful. Caleb is not only a West Point graduate, he's one of the very few players ever drafted into the NFL. He's also former Army officer, coach, and author of the new book, Unstriving. He spent years building his life around achievement, performance, and becoming the person other people expected him to be. Eventually, he reached a point where he had to confront a difficult truth. What if I can achieve everything I'm supposed to achieve and still not become the person I actually want to be? In our conversation, Caleb opens up about his experience in the NFL, the pressure of tying his identity to performance, And what happened when that identity that had helped him earn acceptance and belonging could no longer carry him forward? We talk about what Caleb calls the liminal space, that uncomfortable territory between who you've been and who you're becoming. It's the place where the old version of you no longer fits, but the new version hasn't fully emerged yet. And that's where his idea of unstriving comes in. This isn't about giving up on ambition or becoming less driven. It's about learning how to pursue growth. without constantly using achievement to prove that you're worthy. So if you've ever achieved something you thought would finally make you feel enough and then discovered you were still searching for something more, I think this conversation is going to hit home. Here's my interview with Caleb Campbell. Thank you for choosing PassionStruck and choosing me to be your host and guide on your journey to creating an intentional life that matters. Now, let that journey begin. Speaker 3 (4:11) absolutely thrilled today to welcome Caleb Campbell to PassionStruck. Caleb, how are you today? Speaker 4 (4:16) I am wonderful, John, and thank you for inviting me onto the show. It's an honor to be here. Speaker 3 (4:23) Well, I first discovered you through Substack, so I have been spending much more time on that platform and have found it more difficult than I had ever expected it to be, but slowly but surely, we've been... cultivating a loyal audience. How about you? What's your experience been like? Speaker 4 (4:42) You know what? I'm going to have to second that. It is actually a very difficult experience. It's funny. I got on Substack when it first started and I got off of it just because life got intense and I just found myself not spending enough time on the app and I wasn't really gravitating towards it much at the time because it was new and I'm beating myself up. Cause I think I was one of the first people to be on the app and then I walked away for a while and now I'm back and it is like you said, a, it's a difficult challenge. It's a difficult platform to break through the noise. And so I'm here for the long run though. Speaker 3 (5:16) I think what's been difficult for me is there's absolutely no guidance, no holding, none of that. And it's been interesting to me how much the notes drive the engagement over the post. And I originally went on it. to move from writing long form content on medium to this. And I think I've finally cracked the nut as we've been starting to gain, but I hear you. Speaker 4 (5:41) Wait, I'm going to selfishly ask here. I've heard the same thing with the notes being the main way in, but there's no rhyme or reason to it. I find that some notes like for people just take off and then some don't. Is it just at some point you say the right thing that the algorithm rewards you and you have really no control over it? Because that's what it feels like. Speaker 3 (6:01) That's what it feels like to me too, is that sometimes the algorithm will pick you up and the more frequent you post, the more likely that's going to happen. And we had it happen in April where out of nowhere, one of the simple one-liners went viral and reached over a thousand people. But I try to post three, four times a day and the vast majority don't seem to go anywhere. Those who are loyal, I find on Substack are extremely loyal. So my whole purpose for doing it is serving the community that's on there following me and subscribing. Even if I'm hitting one or two people, it still feels like it's worthwhile. Speaker 4 (6:41) Yeah, I agree. I feel like what people don't talk about enough with all social media platforms in a lot of ways, if you are like kind of an authentic creator, you really are when you are signing up to play the social media game. I think in a lot of ways for me, I'm signing up to do deeper shadow work in my life. It's on Substack. I'm talking about that specifically putting out some things that I feel like are. just really from the depths of who I am. And it just falls flat. There's no response. There's nothing. And you stare at the nothingness long enough. And it's easy for that to start mirroring back to you a lot of insecurities, a lot of self doubt, you start questioning your voice, and you start asking yourself, wait, am I the problem here? And then you can easily get confused. And you start to realize, oh, no, it's mirroring back some internal misalignment that still needs to be worked through potentially. It's an interesting experience I feel like when you are on social media and you're doing it consciously. Speaker 3 (7:41) Yes, I can assure you that I know the feeling when you put stuff out there and all you hear is crickets. That for me has always been a sign that I need to double down. Speaker 4 (7:56) So I Speaker 3 (7:57) just try hitting the same thing from 10 different angles. And typically I find that it is the wording I'm using or the way I'm coming into it. And when I try different approaches, I find it actually helpful. Because when it finally hits, then I use that phrasing and carry it forward across all the different channels. Speaker 4 (8:20) That's a much more intentional way of going about it than I do. Speaker 3 (8:25) Some Speaker 4 (8:26) things work, some Speaker 3 (8:27) things don't. Speaker 4 (8:27) Yeah, I hear you. Well, for what it's worth, I appreciate your voice on the platform. The content that you put out, I know from my experience, it genuinely speaks to my soul. So thank you. Speaker 3 (8:37) Well, thank you, Caleb. I appreciate that. So I'm going to start today off here. You and I both know what it's like to live inside an academy culture. And when I say academy, I'm talking West Point Naval Academy, Air Force Academy. And what I found, I'm not sure what your experience was, excellence isn't optional. Speaker 1 (9:02) For Speaker 3 (9:02) us, it was expected. When you look back now, What do you think West Point gave you that still serves you today? Speaker 4 (9:10) It's a beautiful question. I think it was Douglas MacArthur who says that we had to learn our plebeier in our little handbook. He says, on the fields of friendly strife are sown the seeds upon other fields on other battles. In other battles will bear the fruits of victory. And he was essentially talking about on the fields of friendly strife, talking about the football field. That was what we saw. as we were walking into Mikey Stadium to play football games. And as a graduate of West Point, you start to realize that West Point and the military academies, for me, it did a beautiful job at cultivating the internal conditions, the resiliency, the grit, the determination, the ability to pick yourself up and try again time and time again. And those things have carried over through every different season of my life long after I have graduated. Speaker 3 (10:00) For me, and when I talk to my classmates, I think the thing that comes back more than anything is just the camaraderie that you have a group of people. And I see this when I go back to class reunions, and I should say I didn't go back until my 20th for the first time. But it was, it's like your close high school friends. It's like you can just pick up right where you left and time stands still. Speaker 4 (10:25) Absolutely. We still get together. Me and my boys from West Point, we'll see each other. We keep saying every year that we'll see each other more, but it usually comes down to once a year we get together, whether it's us solo as a bunch of guys getting together or our families getting together. And honestly, I know today, even though we don't talk as much as we would like to, the moments that we get back together, it's like... nothing was missed. And I know that if I ever found myself in a really hard place, a few of my friends from West Point, they're a phone call away and they would be here as fast as possible and they would come through without a question. And I think that's really rare in today's world. It's a gift for sure. Speaker 3 (11:05) Caleb, I didn't play football at the academy. I was originally recruited as a cross country and track athlete, and then cross transferred into playing rugby of all the dramatic changes you could possibly do. But one of my NAPS roommates was a multi-year starter, and he ended up being in my company all four years. And he would often talk about the brotherhood, and he still does, because there's... the academy, and then there's the football culture. Did you guys consider it the brotherhood as well? Speaker 4 (11:41) We did, absolutely. And there was the academy, and then there was the football culture, which actually, at my time at West Point, there was a really big divide between the academy and the football players. We were seen to be given preferential treatment. We had some Speaker 4 (11:57) You can call them what they want, but we had some advantages in terms of a little bit more time around meals. We got a little bit more time away from the core. We weren't parading like a lot of other people had to parade in the afternoons. But at the end of the day, we were still Division I college football athletes trying to win games on Saturday for the school. And I know that with... Coach Jeff Munkin, who has come in and completely reinvented the program and really created a winning culture. He did a really good job. From what I hear, he's done a really good job at bridging the divide between the football program and the Corps of Cadets. Speaker 3 (12:32) I just found when I was there, we had the ability, if we were a recruited athlete, to go to team tables. And I think that was the thing that my classmates, especially my company mates, probably had the most animosity about because they had to get ruled. And so I learned as they became vocal to me. that I needed to come pretty frequently to take one for the team. And that's exactly what it was like, because when you did show up and you had the option of going to the team tables, the upper class seemed to just put all their focus on you. So I knew every time that I was gonna do that, that it was gonna suck and they were gonna make it painful. But I know my classmates really appreciated it. And I'm sure it was the same scenario for you. Speaker 4 (13:23) Absolutely. So many great memories when we think back to that season of life. And also so many memories I never want to revisit again. Speaker 3 (13:31) Yeah, man, I'll tell you one of the worst for me is I was on the honor staff when we had the worst cheating scandal in Academy history. So believe me, that was a very painful senior year for me. Speaker 4 (13:43) Yes, I can imagine. Speaker 3 (13:45) Caleb, you were a Division I football player. You came out of the panhandle of Texas. You ended up becoming the team captain, army officer, NFL draft pick. I'm curious, before all those titles and expectations, who was Caleb as a kid growing up in that panhandle? Speaker 4 (14:07) It's an interesting question. I feel like as I'm currently working through this with my therapist now, so much of my childhood just feels like a black hole. Speaker 4 (14:17) And there's a lot of just a lot of gaps in my childhood, a lot of things that I feel like that have just been blacked out. But when I really get back to the earliest memories of who I was as a boy, really before the world got a hold of me and before the pain started to really shape my personality into something else for me personally, I was a young kid who was. Born into this world with a deep hunger to leave the world in a better place, to do something meaningful and significant with my life, to rise above the status quo and to ultimately make a difference in the lives of people. I remember my middle school and my high school experience were wildly challenging. I was the star athlete, but I was also probably one of the most bullied kids in school just simply because I didn't drink. I didn't sleep around. I was very devout. I was raised in a very Christian home. devout to my spiritual practices. And it was a really hard experience for me because even though I was scoring touchdowns and taking us to a state championship, there wasn't a day that went by where I didn't feel like I was all alone or left out or like I just simply didn't belong. But despite all of the hard challenges, I still remember having such a heart for people that sometimes when people were going through really challenging things, they would come and find me behind closed doors and they would just ask questions about their lives. And I knew that despite some of these people that I was having conversations with were the reasons why I was having such a hard life experience in middle school and high school, I was there to serve them. I was there to help them. I was there to help them grow through whatever it is that they were experiencing in life. And so I think from the earliest childhood memories, there was always just, who am I? There was just always a desire to love and to serve and to help people grow and to help people heal and to ultimately leave the world in a better place. That's always been my desire. Speaker 3 (16:07) Well, I love that. And for people who aren't familiar with Texas, I've done a few stints there. I've lived in Houston. I've lived in Austin. In fact, my kids were in the school district, Westlake High School, which I'm sure you're familiar with. That's where Nick falls. And it is quarterback U. But there's a huge difference between where you grew up and kind of those areas of Texas, which get highly recruited. For those who aren't familiar, how different is it? Speaker 4 (16:36) It's wildly different. Mostly when colleges go to Texas to find and scout athletes, like you said, they just need to fly into the Dallas metropolitan area. They need to fly into Houston. And essentially you're going to find all of the talent that you need in those surrounding areas. To give you a deeper example of this, when we played in the state semifinals, we played Everman, which was a school outside of Dallas. And we're from the Texas Panhandle. I am the only person from my high school that was going D1. and I think I'm the only person out of the history of my high school that's ever been drafted into the NFL. I was the only person on my team going D1, and we were playing a team that had 24 players going Division I. So that means two of the players going Division I weren't even starters. but they were still going Division I. And so when a school or a scout, they come in and they start scouting for talent, they just have to go down south to really find all of the talent that they need. And so I guess what