Ep 769 - Starship Troopers, by Robert A. Heinlein

Overdue

The episode explores the complexities of Robert A. Heinlein's science fiction classic, Starship Troopers, and its 1997 film adaptation direc

Key takeaways

• Robert A. Heinlein's novel depicts a society where voting rights are earned through military or federal service.
• Paul Verhoeven's film adaptation uses Nazi-inspired aesthetics to create a satire of fascism and militarism.

Main topics

• Starship Troopers novel analysis
• Paul Verhoeven's film adaptation

Notable quotes

A society run by military veterans... where you only get to vote if you have completed your military service.

Conclusion

A fascinating look at how the same source material can be interpreted

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:01) This is a HeadGum Podcast. Speaker 1 (0:05) This episode is brought to you by Mint Mobile. Andrew, summer is over now, but you can still carry the spirit of summer, the spirit of those carefree months with no homework or school and the freedom to get away from a big wireless company that's going to lock you in and overcharge you. That's right. Thanks to Mint Mobile's summer sale, all of Mint's plans are $15 per month, even unlimited. So free yourself from big wireless and their gimmicks and their gotchas and switch to Mint for high-speed data and coverage on the T-Mobile 5G network. Andrew, would you please talk about your personal experience using Mint Mobile? Is it easy? How high is the quality of service? Are you saving? I Speaker 2 (0:42) think even when the ad copy is ambiguous, it's fine because Mint is a phone... plan provider for all seasons. In every one of the four seasons, Mint Mobile has given me good, reliable, and inexpensive cell phone service that I have had nothing bad to say about. Speaker 1 (1:00) I love to hear it. I love to hear that all the plans come with high-speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. To get your new wireless plan for just $15 a month, go to mintmobile.com slash overdue. That's Mint Mobile. Speaker 1 (1:40) See MintMobile.com. Speaker 2 (1:44) While Andrew and Craig believe the joy of discovery is crucial Speaker 1 (1:47) to enjoying any well-told tale, they will not shy away from spoiling specific story beats when necessary. Plus, these are books you should have read by now. Speaker 1 (2:22) Hey everybody, welcome to Overdue. It's a podcast about the books you've been meaning to read. My name is Craig. My name is Andrew. Of course. Of course. Speaker 2 (2:32) If he's Craig, then I must be Andrew. It's the only name that's left. Speaker 1 (2:35) That's how it works. And there's no one else here, right? Nope. Right? Yes. I'm looking around, listening around. No, there's no cutesy guests. There's no one else on the call. Nobody else is on the call. Except the NSA. Big government, probably. Speaker 2 (2:53) Whoa. Speaker 1 (2:53) Whoa. Speaker 2 (2:54) I Speaker 1 (2:55) mean, anybody can listen to this show. Speaker 2 (2:57) Yeah. I suppose. The NSA could listen. I guess we release it publicly. Speaker 1 (3:01) That means we're popular. Speaker 2 (3:03) But every week, Speaker 1 (3:04) the Speaker 2 (3:05) spooks at the NSA know, and you know too, that we are a book podcast. And every week, one of us reads a book. that we've never read before. We tell the other person about it. We have a couple of larfs. We have a couple of learns. We have just a good old time for everybody in the whole family. Yeah. And this week, Craig, you read a fascist Speaker 1 (3:27) bug book. Well, it's not about fascist bugs, interestingly enough. You read a fascist book about Speaker 2 (3:34) bugs called? I Speaker 1 (3:36) read Robert A. Heinlein's novel, Starship Troopers. Which is a book about a military society where you only get to vote if you have completed your military service. And violence is one of the best answers to anything. Speaker 2 (4:00) I read that he was inspired to write this book in part because he was really worried that the U.S. was going to stop testing nuclear weapons. But that the Soviets wouldn't stop testing nuclear weapons. There's Speaker 1 (4:13) a specific incident that we'll talk about, yes. And then he also, Speaker 2 (4:17) he originally wrote a treatment of the story, Heinlein did, as a story for kids. And his publisher was like, no, no thanks. Speaker 1 (4:26) Well, he'd been writing juvenile novels. And he was like, well, I'm never Speaker 2 (4:29) writing children's books ever again. Yes, Speaker 1 (4:32) yes. We shall talk about Robert Anson Heinlein's. Novel Starship Troopers, which many folks, myself included, probably first encountered as the 1997 film. What's a word that sounds like adaptation that means sort of adaptation by Paul Verhoeven? A Speaker 2 (4:54) story with the same name. Speaker 1 (4:59) Grafting off of some of the vibes from the original novel. Yes. Speaker 2 (5:05) Adapted loosely from nouns that appeared in the original novel. Speaker 1 (5:10) Yeah, we'll talk about that when we get to the film. But first, Andrew, let's talk about Robert Anson Heinlein, born 1907, died 1988. Speaker 2 (5:18) I would love to talk about Robert A. Heinlein, born 1907, died 1988. Craig, he's an American sci-fi author and naval officer. He's particularly known for his contributions to the field of hard sci-fi. Yeah. That is, what if science fiction was boring? Speaker 1 (5:35) I have some notes on the sci-fi in this book, which are kind of interesting. Speaker 2 (5:38) That is incredibly uncharitable. Reductive? That's reductive and uncharitable. But that is hard sci-fi science fiction that at least makes some nod toward being bound by actual established scientific facts. Speaker 1 (5:50) Yeah. Speaker 2 (5:51) If you want a litmus test, think about your story. How does traveling between worlds work? Does it take years or do people zip around the galaxy in the space of a few hours? Sure. With impossible warp technology. Okay. Hard sci-fi. Sure. Four of his novels received Hugo Awards. Three of them received Retro Hugos years after the fact. One rule about Retro Hugos is they cannot be given for years where actual Hugos were given out. Speaker 1 (6:16) Oh, that's interesting. Which Speaker 2 (6:18) is 1953 and every year from 1955 on. Apparently. Okay. And then in 1975, he's the first writer to be named a Grandmaster by the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America. This does sound like a cult thing, but it's probably just some nice people who like science fiction. It's now the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers Association. Speaker 1 (6:39) Yeah. Speaker 2 (6:39) Mr. Heinlein grew up in Kansas City, Missouri. He came to science and science fiction through an interest in astronomy. And was inspired by the works of H.G. Wells, Jules Verne, and Olaf Stapledon. We've read Wells and Verne for the show. I've Speaker 1 (6:54) never heard of Olaf Stapledon. Olaf Speaker 2 (6:56) Stapledon I never heard of. He is apparently an English author who wrote a book called First and Last Men in 1930. Speaker 1 (7:02) I also know he was a fan of Rudyard Kipling of The Jungle Book. One of his novels, which we might talk about, Stranger in a Strange Land, is like sort of like... guy raised by another culture comes back and doesn't understand humanity sort of thing and there is even an early kipling story that has a like a notion of a society where you can't vote unless you have participated in some sort of compulsory service so it's in there the dna is in there uh Speaker 2 (7:41) Heinlein works on Upton Sinclair's campaign for Democratic governor of California in 1934. He runs for the state assembly himself. That was after he was Speaker 1 (7:49) discharged from the Naval Service due to TB. He had gone to the Naval Academy. Speaker 2 (7:53) Tuberculosis. Speaker 1 (7:55) Lied about his age to get into the Missouri National Guard at 16. I don't want to lose this early military service stuff because of how important military service is. Speaker 2 (8:04) Yeah, that's fair. He loses this election in 1938, and then he starts. Publishing stuff after this to kind of help make ends meet. Yeah. Speaker 1 (8:11) First Speaker 2 (8:12) published story called Life-Line. Life-Line. It's Speaker 1 (8:15) really weird that it's spaced out. I don't know why. Maybe I'm just so used to the product advertised in infomercials. But, Speaker 2 (8:22) you know. This was published in Astounding Science Fiction, which is a publication that he continues writing for until 1942. He returns to writing after World War II in 1947 with his first book, Rocket Ship Galileo. Speaker 1 (8:37) And Speaker 2 (8:37) then his other big, big work, like you mentioned, A Stranger in a Strange Land, which is a 1960 novel about a human who was raised on Mars who returns to Earth and is a stranger in a strange land. Speaker 1 (8:49) That book has a lot of free love stuff in it and some critiques of religious authority. You can draw some lines between that and some iconoclastic. Speaker 1 (9:06) individualism that some might call libertarianism. But Speaker 2 (9:09) for him, Speaker 1 (9:10) it's a little more eclectic. Also, that book is credited with coining the word grok, which I hate, has been claimed by the Nazi social media. Speaker 2 (9:18) Yeah, it's been claimed by the CSAM AI that Elon Musk made, which is too Speaker 1 (9:23) bad. Speaker 2 (9:23) Too bad. I know you had more of a standing affection for that word than I did. I've discovered that word. Speaker 1 (9:28) It is too Speaker 2 (9:28) bad that it's been ruined for everybody. Speaker 1 (9:29) I discovered that word when I was in my... early to mid-20s and like spending some of my free time reading games studies like video game design books and things like that and it was just a very useful verb for the learning to understand something such that you don't need to think about it in the way that you like learn a game so that you can then just play it right it was it was a type of knowledge i had not heard about before and i hate that um it has been ruined Speaker 2 (10:01) Other works of his that are noteworthy, according to a combination of Wikipedia and Britannica, are The Green Hills of Earth in 1951, Double Star in 1956. Imagine that. You buy one book, it has two stars in it? Wow. By Grab Fire Sam or what a savings. The Door into Summer in 1957, Citizen of the Galaxy, also in 57, Methuselah's Children in 58. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress from 1966 and Time Enough for Love in 1973. Speaker 1 (10:32) Yeah. Speaker 2 (10:33) And then, as I mentioned, he wrote quite a bit of work for children in the 40s and 50s. I think the money was just good. And then the stops with Starship Troopers. Do you have more about his military service that you want to talk about? Before I talk about the book Starship Troopers and then the movie Starship Troopers. Speaker 1 (10:49) I have. I've mentioned the early stuff. The main thing that. I was just looking a little bit, and this will go right into where this book comes from, I think, is that he kind of loses his affection for Sinclair and the left after the failed governor bid and then his own failed state assembly run. And then World War II takes him in a more explicitly conservative direction. He starts publishing things that speak to the fact that, like, maybe we would need a strong world government to help prevent nuclear annihilation and that that might take some might. Right. And I think I did not do a deep dive in it, but it was not hard to find a few Google results for articles in places like the National Review that talked about some of his novels for youth espousing good old fashioned values. Yeah. I'll leave it there. But anyway, take me to the genesis of this book. Speaker 2 (11:56) Like I said, written partly because he approved of the U.S. movement to suspend nuclear weapons testing while the Soviets were still doing it. He Speaker 1 (12:04) disapproved of it. He did not want that to happen. Speaker 2 (12:06) Yeah, that's what I said. Speaker 1 (12:07) Okay. I Speaker 2 (12:08) think. Speaker 1 (12:08) I don't know. I don't remember now. He formed the Patrick Henry League in 1958 in response to some friends of his publishing a... The Sane Group or whatever, publishing an ad saying... Please suspend these tests. They're in Colorado Springs. And then he publishes a similar article, but from the other direction. Speaker 2 (12:30) It's good to know that the sort of the conservative impulse to pick very anodyne sounding, weird, abstracted names for the most conservative crank political movements that you could possibly imagine. It's good to know that that's got a long tradition. Yeah. Speaker 1 (12:48) Yeah. Speaker 2 (12:49) And that he was part of it. This was originally published as a two-part serial in the magazine of fantasy and science fiction as Starship Soldiers. And yeah, it's about a society where you got to do military service to have the full benefits of citizenship. Speaker 2 (13:07) And I mostly have stuff from the movie after this. So you said you Speaker 1 (13:12) wanted to tell Speaker 2 (13:12) me specifically about the incident that inspired the book. Yeah, Speaker 1 (13:16) so this Patrick Henry League thing, the sane people were on the side of nuclear disarmament or nuclear pausing. But he founded the Patrick Henry League, which differing reports on how serious this enterprise was. Speaker 1 (13:33) But I found quotes from the article that talks about, you know, why he thinks it was bad for these people to even argue against nuclear testing. This follows the pattern of a much used and highly refined communist tactic. Plan ahead to soften up the free world on some major point. Package the propaganda to appeal to Americans with warm hearts and soft heads. Time the release carefully, then let the suckers carry the ball while the known communists stay undercover. These proposals are not a road to world peace. They are abject surrender to tyranny. If we fall for them, then in weeks or months or a few years at most, old glory will be hauled down for the last time and the whole planet will be ruled by the butchers of Budapest. So that's... Yeah, sure. I saw some writing that like did his third wife, Ginny Doris Gerstfield, like was she more conservative than him and drew him in this direction? I don't know. He seemed to come. I would bet more money on him coming out of World War II and just having some very specific thoughts about might make Speaker 2 (14:38) it Speaker 1 (14:38) right in the world. And Speaker 2 (14:40) listen, I think you could come out of World War II believing that, honestly. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 2 (14:47) I'm not here to equate seeing things in World War II and having it change your worldview with people who decide that the left is too mean. Yes, exactly. And have Speaker 1 (14:57) that dictate their whole worldview. No, and you can also look at his biography and see that he came from a military family. He is trying to get into the military when he's very, very young. He clearly... believes in military service as a good and as a necessary thing. He's never going to be a pacifist in any way, shape, or form. And so he puts down his work on Stranger in a Strange Land because he's so incensed about this article exchange and decides to pen a book that is, hey, what if all the idiots that didn't know how necessary war was couldn't vote and what if you had to participate in federal service to vote and then we'll talk about this like 20 years later when he's like responding to critics that he's been hearing from for two decades he's like, listen, not everybody in the society I made up had to be in the military. They just had to do federal service. And everyone's like, that's interesting because that's like not a part of your book. It's Speaker 2 (16:07) interesting because nobody, because your movie is not about, your book is not about people like working for the post office. Speaker 1 (16:14) No, it is just about going into space and being a really cool soldier who knows how to navigate. military hierarchy like that's what the book Speaker 2 (16:23) is not called like starship bureaucrats no Speaker 1 (16:25) it really isn't uh anyway tell me how this became a movie that people have feelings about uh Speaker 2 (16:32) starship troopers is a 1997 film 1997 so we've talked about this in other contexts it's a big year such an incredible year for american cinema possibly the the peak of it yeah or the Speaker 2 (16:46) I don't know about that. I just know that every time I see a movie that was made in 1997, I think, they don't make them like Speaker