OPRAH WINFREY: The Life Lessons That Changed Everything

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Jay Shetty hosts a deeply personal conversation with Oprah Winfrey, exploring her childhood in Mississippi, early trauma, and the pivotal mo

Key takeaways

• The feeling of knowing your life is meant for more than your current circumstances can be a powerful inner compass.
• Early trauma and displacement can become foundational to growth if met with awareness and agency.

Main topics

• Childhood trauma and resilience
• Self-empowerment through early agency

Notable quotes

"I could sense that this isn't, whatever you're doing, this isn't going to be for me."

"You don't have to meditate for hours. You don't have to do anything but go back to what that feeling is."

Conclusion

Oprah's journey underscores that our deepest wounds can become sources

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:00) You're one of those people I would just love to sit down at a dinner and just, you know, when people say... Are you kidding me? Speaker 1 (0:10) I'm Speaker 2 (0:10) not kidding you. Speaker 1 (0:11) Can we please do that? Speaker 2 (0:12) Well, we can actually do it. We're going to do it. I'll give you the list, too. Who else is there? You know who else should be there? Please. Kris Jenner should be there. I love Kris. Ellen should be there because we were just talking about you. This wonderful guy, Alan Levi, who's written this wonderful book called Theo of Golden should be there. I mean, anyway, we'll talk about this. We'll talk about this, okay? Speaker 1 (0:30) Hey, it's Jay. I don't know what your day's been like, but I was just thinking about you for a minute. And I hope you're being a little patient with yourself because you deserve it. And yeah, I'll talk to you soon. Speaker 1 (0:53) Oprah Winfrey, welcome to On Purpose. Speaker 2 (0:56) I am so excited to be Speaker 1 (0:59) able to have this conversation with you. Oprah, I have to say to you, and I say this to you when I see you, I said this to you when we had a few interactions during the pandemic digitally. Yeah. This show, On Purpose, exists because of your inspiration. Speaker 2 (1:14) Oh, thank you for that. And so, Speaker 1 (1:16) so much of what I do is inspired by you. empowered by you, the incredible work that you did, the conversations that you continue to have, the eager ear that you have to continue to listen, to learn, to grow. I feel extremely humbled today that you came and trusted me and my platform, that you've given me the opportunity to have this conversation with you. Complete awe of you online, offline, behind the scenes for the last few decades of my life. And so this is the greatest gift you could have ever given me. And knowing that I get to have dinner with you is just Speaker 2 (1:48) blowing my mind right now. We're going to do it. Speaker 1 (1:51) Everyone in the world knows Oprah Winfrey. Everyone in the world knows all the incredible things you've done. But when I think about you, I think about it before the TV show, before the production company, before the success. And there's a little girl in Mississippi. Speaker 2 (2:05) And I Speaker 1 (2:06) wanted to ask you. What's a childhood memory that you have that you feel you hold on to the most after all these years? Speaker 2 (2:14) That's so interesting you ask because I just was looking at a picture of myself before I came here that sits on my desk of my little eight-year-old self with the braids. And I think, wow, that girl could not have imagined this life, that my dreams were not big enough to hold. what has actually happened to me. I had no idea that the world could be this vast, this big, with this many possibilities. The memory that I hold on to is one I often share when speaking to people who are interested in manifesting or not sure about manifesting for themselves. It's being between four and five years old on the back porch with my grandmother. hanging clothes out on the line. She was a domestic worker, and she had brought all of this laundry home from the white family that she was caring for. It was cold, and I could see the moisture from her lips, and she was saying, Oprah Gale, you better watch me now, because one day you're going to have to learn to do this for yourself. Speaker 2 (3:28) And I was churning butter. Do you know what that is? Churning butter. Because we had no running water, no electricity. You know, we killed the chickens. We killed the hog. Hog killing time. I took the cow out the pasture. I took the peapot out to empty it every morning. So we were living like the pioneers. But all of that is a foundation for me being who I am today and also having such deep appreciation. for where I've come from. But I remember my grandmother saying, oh, Abigail, you better watch me now because one day you're going to have to learn how to do this for yourself. And she was taking the clothespins out of her apron, holding them in her mouth and putting them online. And I remember this feeling, Jay. Speaker 1 (4:13) It said, mm-mm, mm-mm, that will not be my life. Speaker 2 (4:19) But I had sense enough not to say it out loud. But I could sense that this isn't, whatever you're doing, this isn't going to be for me. I have held on to that connection, to that feeling, my entire life. And every... forward moving decision that I've made that has come to any level of success has come from going back to that feeling. What is that feeling you felt when you knew that your life was going to be bigger than the back porch in Mississippi, than the dirt road in Mississippi? And that feeling, you have it, everybody watching us, listening to us. Everybody has it. And many people allow the noise of the world to drown out that feeling. But what I want to say is, if you've ever felt it, You don't have to meditate for hours. You don't have to do anything but go back to what that feeling is that allowed you to know what you knew. And so that's my fondest, greatest memory of Mississippi and leaving there. And I will tell you that not until probably 2020. just during the pandemic, when I was going over a book that I had written with Dr. Bruce Perry about what happened to you. And in that book, I was telling the story of growing up with my grandmother and one night, her being accosted by my grandfather and being afraid in the bed and then for years and years and years, having fear in my home and not realizing that that's where that fear came from. But I was looking back at the story of my grandmother. I lived with my grandmother from one to six. and was supposed to start kindergarten. And two weeks before I was supposed to start kindergarten, Jay, my grandmother was in an accident, and I got sent away from my grandmother. As a six-year-old who's only known my grandmother, has only slept in the bed with my grandmother. and sent to Milwaukee to live. I thought for many years that that is the worst thing that had ever happened to me. But instantly going to Milwaukee, I knew I wasn't going to see my grandmother again. So I never was the kind of person or child even that would hang on to, I wish I had my grandmother, because that feeling, the same thing that told me this isn't going to be your life, said you're not going to see your grandmother again. And so I knew that. I was supposed to start kindergarten in apartheid Mississippi. I would have started in a classroom. either with a black teacher or with a white teacher, whose belief about who I could be as a young black girl didn't go beyond the borders of Mississippi and what a black child could be or do at that time. Instead, I get sent to Milwaukee and I walk into a classroom with brown and a couple of white and black children, all playing kindergarten with their ABC blocks. I looked at those kids and I thought, I do not belong here. I got to get myself out of here. And I, on that day, wrote my kindergarten teacher a letter saying, I don't belong here. Speaker 2 (7:52) I know a lot of big words. And I wrote out all the books of the Bible because my grandmother, who couldn't read, but taught me the Bible. So I knew all the books of the Bible. I was reciting all the books of the Bible in church. And so, beginning with Genesis all the way to the Revelations, when I finished all those books of the Bible, handed them to my kindergarten teacher. She said, who did this? And I said, I did, Miss New. And she marches me to the principal's office and say, this girl said she did this. The principal made me do it again. And I was put in first grade that day. So I did it again and I got put in first grade. So that's where I first learned speaking up for yourself, taking agency for yourself in that moment. When I walked into that classroom and saw kids who were not the same color as Speaker 1 (8:40) I, I felt empowered. Speaker 2 (8:42) I felt like. I can do this and I can get myself out of here and I'm not going to be playing with those ABC blocks because I know more than you. And that feeling has carried me through my whole life. It is why I have never, ever experienced a moment of imposter syndrome. So when people started talking about imposter, imposter, imposter, I was like, well, please explain to me what Speaker 1 (9:05) that means. Speaker 2 (9:06) Because I remember feeling like, well, I know I don't belong here, so I'm going to prove to you that I need to be someplace else. Speaker 1 (9:13) The reason I share this story is because for everybody who's had something Speaker 2 (9:17) really bad happen to you in your childhood, and you think that that was the worst thing that could possibly happen to you, that thing is the foundation and the builder for growth to come in ways that you cannot even imagine. Speaker 1 (9:32) So yeah, that's my favorite Speaker 2 (9:34) story. Speaker 1 (9:34) This episode of On Purpose is presented to you by Mazda. Peace of mind doesn't happen by chance. It's created through the habits we build before we ever need them. That's the philosophy behind every Mazda. With proactive safety features that help keep you more aware, more connected and more engaged, Mazda helps you feel ready for whatever the road brings. It's why Mazda has been named Consumer Reports' Safest New Car Brand. And as of July 2026, Mazda has won more 2026... IIHS Top Safety Pick Plus awards than any other car brand. Visit www.iihs.org to learn more. A lot can happen when an accident doesn't. Visit mazdausa.com to learn more. Consumer Reports does not endorse products or services. The first thing that I wanted to point out to everyone who was listening, which was just so powerful, was this idea that even Oprah did not dream as big as... your life has become. No. And I love that for people because I think we're living at a time now where everyone's dreams may be trying to be bigger than they are, but then our actions are smaller. And what you see on your side is your dreams aren't even that big. You just know you need to get out of here. I didn't know. I mean, Speaker 2 (10:50) now Speaker 1 (10:51) I have to say I Speaker 2 (10:52) am Speaker 1 (10:52) blessed to live this exalted Speaker 2 (10:55) life. Speaker 1 (10:56) I am in awe Speaker 2 (10:57) because I didn't even know. I remember on the dirt road next to my grandmother, there was this airfield on the other side and there'd be these little prop planes. I didn't know they were prop planes at the time. I used to just dream of being on a plane like that. What would it mean to be on that plane? What would it mean to be able to be able to fly? Speaker 1 (11:15) I Speaker 2 (11:15) didn't even know that there was such a thing to aspire to. So what I have done, I will say, is lean into God's dream for me. I believe that the universe, the creator, the divine, the life force, by whatever name you call it, has a dream for all of us. And that's why you were born and I was born. And each one of us is here to fulfill the purpose of that dream. And so that's why I love that your podcast is called On Purpose. And I feel that. What you are doing here on Netflix and throughout the world is an extension of what we started to do on The Oprah Show. Absolutely. Speaker 1 (12:00) And I Speaker 2 (12:00) feel that you are one of my children because when we started it, you couldn't even say the word spirit. I remember doing a show with Carolyn Mace who wrote the book Anatomy of Spirit. And we were sitting there with the audience in the 90s, early 90s. And she'd written the book called Anatomy of Spirit. And we were talking about mind, body, and spirit. And I could see the audience glazing over, looking at their shoes, picking their nails, doing the thing. So I stopped the show and said, hey, hey, hey, hey, guys, what's going on? And a woman stood up and said, we don't know what she's talking about. What is she talking about? Is she talking about Jesus? Somebody has said, is she talking about Moses? What is she talking about? I said, well, no, she's talking, you know, you have a mind, right? And you have a body, right? And you have a spirit. Nobody in the audience in the early 90s knew what that was. Wow. So I started doing a little segment on the show called Remembering Your Spirit, trying to teach people that there is more to us Speaker 1 (13:02) than our body and our mind. Unbelievable. Speaker 2 (13:05) In the early 90s. Unbelievable, yeah. And now you're sitting up with a podcast on Netflix talking about it. Every day. With Speaker 1 (13:13) you. Yes, with Speaker 2 (13:14) me. Speaker 1 (13:14) Full circle moment. I know, Speaker 2 (13:15) but I'm telling you. And at the time when I started talking about it, because it was so important to me, I was on my own spiritual journey. I was taking God out of the box because I grew up really strictly religious. But God was in a box. If you did this, if you wore pants on a Sunday or you danced or you wore earrings. And then it started to occur to me, how could you be an omnipotent power? Speaker 2 (13:42) universal divine energy and be upset over somebody's earrings. Yeah. Speaker 1 (13:47) Or whether they danced on Sunday or wore Speaker 2 (13:50) pants. I mean, it just started to not make sense to me. And so around the time that I started to take God out of the religious dogma box and opened it up to God is all, God is all things and all things in us. And through God, all things are possible. I started to lean into that dream for myself. What is God's dream for me? So I am where I am and continue to be where I am. Because the prayer that I have prayed and the question that I have asked for my life is, I think, one that can be useful to anybody watching or listening to this today, is how can you use me? Use me. Use me. Show me. Use me. Speaker 2 (14:37) and lift me. How do I rise to the calling that was my life? How do I do that? So I've been in search of that answer since I was a little girl. Speaker 1 (14:49) And Speaker 2 (14:49) first it was news, and then it was the talk show, and then it was the national talk show. And now we're sitting here with you on Netflix. Speaker 1 (15:00) talking Speaker 2 (15:01) about this thing, talking about this Speaker 1 (15:03) stuff, Speaker 2 (15:03) opening up your life to all that it could be, all that it can be. Speaker 1 (15:07) You're reminding me of a beautiful prayer that was written by my teacher's teacher who I never met. His name was Srila Prabhupada. And he wrote a prayer that said, God, I'm simply your puppet. Make me dance, make me dance, make me dance. Use me, use me, utilize me. And as I was listening to you say that, I also want people to get the perspective. I mean, is it true that your way of playing was to interview corncob dolls. That Speaker 2 (15:31) is a true story. I mean, I had corncob dolls and I'd sit there and I'd talk to them. I mean, as a little girl growing up in a small rural area with your grandmother and a senile grandfather, I had to invent ways of entertaining myself. And I do know for sure that it's growing up with the church as my foundation that gave me... the confidence to speak in front of audiences that gave me the ability to feel like I was valued. Because, you know, my grandmother was harsh. She, you know, I got whippings and, you know, I never really felt loved, but I felt valued when I would speak in public. Speaker 1 (16:15) And Speaker 2 (16:16) I'd been speaking in public since I was three, four years old, speaking, doing pieces for... For the church, Jesus rose on Easter day. Hallelujah, hallelujah, all the angels did proclaim. I was doing Invictus by William Ernest Henley by the time I was seven, eight years old. Out of the night that covers me, black as a pit from pole to pole. I thank whatever gods there be for my unconquerable soul. And in that, you know, he talks about, I am the master of my fate. I'm the captain of my soul. I didn't know what I was saying, but I would put it on my mirror and I would say, I am the master of Speaker 1 (16:50) my fate. I am the captain of my soul, Speaker 2 (16:52) which became sort of a mantra for me as a young girl. So I've been led by, I would say, the hand of God, by divine guidance my whole life. And I've been trying to listen to it, listen to it, listen to it, and follow the path that has been laid for me. Now, have I made a lot of mistakes? And every time I made a mistake, it's because I didn't listen. I mean, can anybody listen to us right now? Anytime you made a mistake, it's because you overrode that feeling, that still small voice Speaker 1 (17:30) that's Speaker 2 (17:31) within every one of us that says. no, you shouldn't do that. You should go this way. And you're like, no, no, no, I think I should do. You shouldn't do that. You should go this way. And so for a lot of people, it takes you a lot of detours to get back to where you should have been when you let your head overrule what you know your spirit is trying to tell you. Speaker 1 (17:54) So well said. So true. Don't you think? I was just talking about this with friends. How many Speaker 2 (17:58) people are walking down the aisle and listening to us right now? There's a wedding coming up and you know you should not be going down that aisle. Wow. Yeah. But the invitations have gone out. The party planners, the flowers have been picked. And what are people going to say? And the bigger question is, what are you going to say when you're in the life that you know? I mean, don't you feel this way, Jay, that everybody makes mistakes? But when you know ahead of time that it's going to be a mistake, you just want to slap yourself. Those are the Speaker 1 (18:26) worst. You want to slap yourself. You want to slap yourself because I knew better. Yeah, you knew better. You saw the red flag. I Speaker 2 (18:33) saw the red flag and I kept going. And I kept going. I kept going. Yes. And everybody gets the red flags. Speaker 1 (18:38) Yes. We know. We know. And that's when we're more upset at ourselves. We're not upset because we're surprised by what happened. We're upset because we knew. Because Speaker 2 (18:48) you Speaker 1 (18:48) always knew. You knew. You know, we know. I Speaker 2 (18:52) always say it comes in a whisper and the whisper, it's just like a, hmm, that's odd. Speaker 1 (18:58) Hmm, I Speaker 2 (18:59) should do that. It's just a tiny, tiny, it's tiny. The truth is quiet and soft and gentle. It's Speaker 1 (19:05) quiet. Speaker 2 (19:05) It's quiet. And it gets louder and louder and louder when you're not listening. And some people just have to have a tsunami. They just have to be hit over the head. Yeah. Speaker 1 (19:15) I literally was talking about that the other day with someone that. it almost feels like God and the universe has an alarm clock that we keep putting on Speaker 2 (19:23) snooze. So the first thing you put on snooze, you feel Speaker 1 (19:26) something and you put it on snooze. Speaker 2 (19:27) Then it gets Speaker 1 (19:28) a Speaker 2 (19:28) bit Speaker 1 (19:28) louder and you go, no, no, I'm Speaker 2 (19:29) going to snooze Speaker 1 (19:30) again. And then ultimately the alarm clock, the fire alarm has to go off. People really do it in Speaker 2 (19:33) relationships. They do it in relationships with personal relationships and they do it in relationships with themselves. They ignore the sign. Speaker 1 (19:40) When Speaker 2 (19:41) I think about what... are the great lessons that I have learned that I would want to pass on. One of the greatest ones is that exactly what Glinda the Good Witch was trying to tell Dorothy. You've always had it. You've always had the power. That there's none of us who's been raised by, you know, decent parents with a sense of values of knowing what's right and wrong, who doesn't feel that thing inside of you. And that Most people don't trust it. They don't trust their own voice. They don't trust that feeling. So they go out and they ask everybody else. Or they are subconsciously always asking society and the world to tell you or them who you are or what you should do or how I should make this move or what you ought to do. And you always had it. Speaker 1 (20:35) Nobody Speaker 2 (20:36) has the answer. Other than you. Yes. And so you can ask all of your friends, even if you're going to buy a pair of shoes, if you love the shoe, you don't have to ask anybody. But when you're not sure, you ask everybody else. Speaker 1 (20:48) You ask Speaker 2 (20:48) the Speaker 1 (20:48) whole Speaker 2 (20:48) group. You ask Speaker 1 (20:49) everybody. You ask the woman in the store and she goes, I think it looks really good. Of course she does. Yeah, of course she does. And so Speaker 2 (20:54) my thing is. Speaker 1 (20:56) come back Speaker 2 (20:57) to that still, small voice that is the knowing inside yourself. Yes. And be guided by that. And if everybody could just do that, but it's just so much noise, Speaker 1 (21:07) Jay. I know. Speaker 2 (21:08) It's Speaker 1 (21:08) so