Jade Holland Cooper On Why Women CAN’T Have It All

Olivia's House with Olivia Attwood

Olivia Attwood and Jade Holland Cooper examine why the pressure for women to balance high-powered careers, family life, relationships, and appearance is unrealistic

Key takeaways

Jade Holland Cooper says the expectation that women must perform at work as if they have no children and at home as if they have no career is impossible.
Holland Cooper is described as on track for Â£100 million turnover, with Jade saying she will set a new goal once that number is reached.
Jade says her non-negotiables include being the best mum she can be and attending meaningful moments like school plays, while delegating other tasks.
The Princess of Wales wearing Holland Cooper's double-breasted blazer and trench coat triggered a global shopping surge and intense fan-account attention.
Jade compares her long-term brand ambition to becoming
emphasizing heritage tailoring, UK manufacturing, and multi-generational appeal.

Main topics

Women's career-family pressure
Delegation and guilt in parenting
Building and scaling Holland Cooper

Notable quotes

I just think the expectation that we've got to show up at work like we don't have children and show up at home like we don't have a career, the expectation is impossible.

Conclusion

The episode offers practical reassurance for ambitious women: success requires trade-offs,

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:00) I just think the expectation that we've got to show up at work like we don't have children and show up at home like we don't have a career, the expectation is impossible. You don't need to make someone a villain that isn't in your story anymore. Just because something has come to an end doesn't mean that it was wrong or that it was bad. It Speaker 2 (0:17) was just, Speaker 1 (0:17) it's not right now. Speaker 2 (0:19) What's an item of clothing that gives you instant ick? Crocs. You Speaker 1 (0:23) don't waste your time looking Speaker 2 (0:24) at jorts? Speaker 1 (0:24) I don't even know what that is. What is that? I've had relationships before and, you know, the question always is, when is enough? Like, why are you working so hard? Why don't you just slow down a bit? And this narrative is exhausting Speaker 2 (0:37) because you think, well, this is the Speaker 1 (0:38) person that I am, Speaker 2 (0:39) so Speaker 1 (0:39) I'm Speaker 2 (0:40) not able to slow down, even if I wanted to. Money does not bring happiness on its own, very rarely. Even... having all the money in the world and the business, if you're in a miserable relationship, you're not happy. Another handbag is not going to fix that problem for you. Well, I've got no engagement ring anymore. I'm holding on to the Birkin Jade. I'm like, that's the only thing I've got left. Speaker 2 (1:05) Hi, dolls. Welcome back to Olivia's house. Joining me in my house today is the queen of the Cotswolds and the queen of pretty much everything else. It's Jade Holland Cooper. Thank you for having me. Hi, darling. How are you? I'm Speaker 1 (1:22) good. I'm so glad we could make this work. I mean, I'm always... Speaker 2 (1:26) casual for my pod I kind of do this but you're making me feel double oh babe no so Speaker 1 (1:30) slick oh thank you I thought I had to wear tweed it was you have you have to wear one of your sets it looks gorgeous thank you Speaker 2 (1:36) um I mean your list accolades goes on founder CEO designer of the brand Holland Cooper and we'll get into his huge success in a moment before we get into the chat Do you know about the leave at the door policy? I do. We have a house policy. So, Jade, what would you like to leave at the door today? So, Speaker 1 (1:54) I've Speaker 2 (1:55) been Speaker 1 (1:55) thinking about this. I think I want to leave at the door this myth that women can have it all, all at the same time, all at once. And I just think the expectation that we've got to show up at work like we don't have children and show up at home like we don't have a career. The expectation is impossible. Speaker 2 (2:13) And Speaker 1 (2:13) I think, you know, ambition comes with trade-offs. expectation that it doesn't it's just making women and us all feel so guilty all of the time and we've got to stop it we've got to stop gaslighting each other this is possible it's Speaker 2 (2:27) such a like there's such a current conversation I think it's happening at the moment and I'm like glad to see it happen especially as well I feel like I'm in that situation like I haven't had children yet and I feel like you know that decision or something do I want in my future I'm like actually feel grateful these conversations are happening now and I can hear them because like you say the last 10 years the fashion was to try and tell women that this myth that you say like you have to behave at work as if you're not a mother and you have to behave like a mother as if you're not running a business or you're employed like it's like you say you're setting people up to fail Speaker 1 (2:58) You just can't, you can't do it. And I think that we've got to start making that a reality and making that okay. And the sooner that we say that is okay and I have to make decisions and I can't hold all of the balls at once and I have to understand which balls I'm going to put down to focus on something else is okay. And I just think we've got to start talking about it like you say more. It's becoming more of a narrative and so it should because... Otherwise, we're feeling like we're failing when we're not failing at all. Speaker 2 (3:28) But Speaker 1 (3:28) no one can do everything all the time perfectly. And, you know, no man is sat down in the history of any business interview and has talked about whether he's at the Tupperware party or the coffee morning or how does he juggle being at the 10 a.m. yoga class. Speaker 2 (3:44) It Speaker 1 (3:45) just doesn't even enter the conversation. But most women that are successful, that is what most people want to ask them about. How are they doing that? Speaker 2 (3:52) Well, Speaker 1 (3:52) the answer is you're not. So you've had to Speaker 2 (3:54) make a decision each day, each hour of like where you're going to be. You can't physically be in two places at once. Speaker 1 (4:01) Yeah, you have to understand what are your non-negotiables very quickly and then understand how you're going to make that possible and be present in the moments that are important and be able to focus on that. But, you know, you can't be perfect and have everything in a perfect line all at the same time. And, you know, once you realize that it does become easier, but let's help. each other realize that and I think the pressure isn't coming from men it's coming from women to each other I Speaker 2 (4:28) completely agree I Speaker 1 (4:29) thought there's Speaker 2 (4:30) so much girl on girl crime at the moment and I think that if you look at people, they say that shame mothers, it's often other women. It is. It is. Men aren't Speaker 1 (4:39) really entering into that conversation and nor should they because like, who gives a shit what their opinion is? But it's Speaker 2 (4:44) like, it's often when you see the hateful comments or you see the narratives, they are, they are, they are often from other women and probably because they're internalising their own guilt and their own, they're living within the confinement of, you know, what society they think they're mentally doing and they feel. you know, frustrated. And then they're putting that out onto someone else. I saw this post, I'm going to probably butcher relaying it, but I saw this post that made such good sense. It was said about, you know, why do so many super successful women, well, lots of super successful women, maybe don't have, you know, they lack in a fulfilled love life or home life. And then the opposite is said for super successful men. And then someone wrote a comment saying, well, imagine being, having a stay-at-home wife. I thought, if I Speaker 1 (5:30) had Speaker 2 (5:30) a Speaker 1 (5:30) stay-at-home wife, I could take over the world. Like Speaker 2 (5:32) literally, do you know what I Speaker 1 (5:33) mean? Speaker 2 (5:33) If you think about a lot of super, super powerful men, they have a partner that is... Anchoring that. Yes. Anchoring that. Literally running the home, running and making sure that everything stays, that he stays a bit, but that is not how society is set up for women. So quite often it's... But Speaker 1 (5:46) it's Speaker 2 (5:46) still a Speaker 1 (5:47) full-time job. Yes. So women carry this invisible layer with them all the time of all of these things that we're supposed to remember and be part of and be decision-making on. Yet we're showing up at the table. with a big business, bigger than a lot of the men around the table, not carrying any of that. And I think that is the fundamental difference in society with men and women. The expectation is that, well, you're the mom, you're the wife, so of course you're going to do all of that, but you're also going to build a £100 million business and do all of that and look good and make sure your hair's done and your makeup's done and don't drop a ball. Speaker 2 (6:21) Guys, Speaker 1 (6:21) it's not possible. Speaker 2 (6:23) How do you approach that? Like, what is your, how do you make the decision of like, you say, what balls you're going to put down on a given day or week? Are you doing it Speaker 1 (6:33) as you go? Or has it been different phases for different periods of your life? I think I've just had to learn to compartmentalize, to delegate, not to confuse guilt with responsibility, and then to work out where my time is best spent at that moment. I try and be fully present in whatever I'm deeming that to be and laying down what those non-negotiables are. Like for me, I want to be the best mum I possibly can be. That is my number one. But for me, a non-negotiable is going to the school play or going to something meaningful for them. Speaker 2 (7:07) It Speaker 1 (7:07) isn't going to the coffee morning at 10 where they are not. It isn't going to the yoga morning. It isn't going to the Tupperware party. It isn't replying every single time to the 35 WhatsApp groups I'm part of with the mums. at school. I can't do that. And I have to realize that I can't do that. And I have to accept that I can't do that. It's not because I don't want to see the mums. It's just I physically can't. But I will be there at the school play. I will be Speaker 2 (7:32) there for all of those moments that they need me. And that they'll remember. That Speaker 1 (7:36) they'll remember. But, you know, you've got to be able to let go of the guilt and you've got to be able to differentiate between, is this something that really needs me or am I just feeling guilty about letting it go? because I feel like I should be doing it. And I think mums are made to feel like if they're not doing it physically themselves, it's not being done properly. Speaker 2 (7:55) But Speaker 1 (7:56) if I was to say to you, I've built this business with no team members at all, and I'm just a one-man band, you'd say, well, that's not possible. You should be delegating. Why aren't you delegating more? This is all we hear in business. Delegate, delegate, build a team. Well, how can we build this infrastructure without any help? Speaker 2 (8:12) So Speaker 1 (8:13) I just think the double standards are just... everywhere and we've got to start cutting through that. Speaker 2 (8:19) It's also like you say, people don't get mad when you delegate in any other areas of your life. But when women are open about delegating out, you know, childcare, housework to other people, there's this automatic shame and judgment put on. It's like society gets pissed off when women don't martyrise themselves. It's like, I'm so sorry, I'm choosing, you know, to... put those tasks in someone else's capable hands while I do something else and then I'll tap back in. But it's some people in society that irks them. But it is impossible. I can't stress this enough. Speaker 1 (8:50) If you want to build a big business or build something, it is impossible to do this alone on your own. But I Speaker 2 (8:56) think also people like you, other people like Emma Greed, other people that are being more honest now and saying... Of course I have help. Of course there's other people at home helping me. I think, like you said, the fashion for so many years, especially a lot of celebrities, they would come on shows, on interviews and go, I don't have help. I'd never have help. They probably have like five nannies. And then you say the woman at home reading that who's working a job nine to five and her kids are thinking, my God, how? But they never were. But I think they said the transparency, I think the honesty, it already gives women a way to cut themselves some slack. Speaker 1 (9:27) I think we've got to cut. a lot more slack and we've got to understand that I keep saying about the non-negotiables because the sooner you kind of lay out what you absolutely do and don't want to be doing then it's easier to understand what you what's okay to delegate and You know, I want to do the school run. I want to take her in the morning or the children in the morning. I can't do the pickup. Julian and I, between us, will always make sure that we take them to school. That is a non-negotiable. But I have to be able to delegate other things. And when I started the business, okay, I didn't have children. I was much younger. And now the business is successful enough that I can afford to help build an infrastructure that allows me to build what I'm doing. Speaker 2 (10:07) And Speaker 1 (10:07) like you say, that's... I'm okay with that. And I don't want to pretend that that isn't happening because it is. And that is the only way I can do what I'm doing without everything falling apart. You Speaker 2 (10:19) just mentioned 100 million pounds there. So Holland Cooper is on track for 100 million pound turnover. It is. That's incredible. But Speaker 1 (10:30) look, yeah, it's an amazing number. And I'm really proud. of that and I'm proud of what we've achieved. But I have, to be honest, I have very little time to sort of dwell on that because we're just going so fast all the time. And for me, the number is a goal. And then once I feel like I'm going to reach that number, I'll set a new one, which is just the human that I am. And I guess that will never change. I've come to terms with that, I think. But yeah, look, it's amazing and testament to the team and the people I have around me. And I probably am an obsessive compulsive maniac. I Speaker 2 (11:08) want to talk Speaker 1 (11:08) to you. Speaker 2 (11:08) Everyone knows that. I am also. And I'd like to confide in being crazy with you together. But I was talking to you before we started recording. I come from a horsey family and my sister reminded me of your rah-rah skirts. I remember that when I was at boarding school, we went to a horse show and I'd already stopped riding, but I bought the skirt. It was like the rah-rah skirts. That was your first real trademark thing, wasn't it? Yeah, at the shows, at the little horse shows. Yeah, and you Speaker 1 (11:32) had Speaker 2 (11:32) a stand and you had these tweedy-like skirts of people that don't know them. They're like really puffy. super mini like it was they were low rise low rise like a little belt really yeah yeah it Speaker 1 (11:42) was so Speaker 2 (11:43) like the muumuu Speaker 1 (11:44) belt skirts Speaker 2 (11:44) that were they copied Speaker 1 (11:46) me yeah I Speaker 2 (11:47) bought a tweed mini skirt last year that probably was very similar to the sort of design that you were selling and you were saying you should bring them back because everyone's so back into that style now but did you ever in those days I mean I'm sure you always have vision for what you wanted the brand to be but If you like to put yourself back into that body, could you, if someone told Jade where you'd be today, 17 years later, would you have believed her? Speaker 1 (12:12) I don't know. I think I've always just been so doggedly determined and driven that I was going to be this big brand. I've always wanted to be the British Ralph Lauren. Like that's been my goal since I started the business. And people just think I'm mental, I think, when I'd say that. Not so much now. But I am. That is what we're going to be. And that's always kind of where I've wanted to go. I guess the number is a big number. Then I set another number. So, you know, it is amazing. I've always been determined and I've always backed myself, I think. You have to back yourself. You have to believe that you can be the person you think you're going to be before everyone else thinks you are. But look, nothing takes away from that number. No. Yeah, we'll be very pleased when that day comes. Speaker 2 (12:59) Do you have 150 staff in your head office? But is it true that you still check every piece of imagery that goes out? Everything. Speaker 1 (13:07) Oh, yeah, yeah. I am Speaker 2 (13:09) an obsessive Speaker 1 (13:10) compulsive maniac, just so we're all clear. So how's Speaker 2 (13:13) that delegating going? Yeah, it's going really Speaker 1 (13:15) well. I built this office to be one of one. No, I'm just, look, I am in it and I've built this amazing office. We moved in in January. It's a 70,000 square foot custom built office. It's Speaker 2 (13:28) kind of Speaker 1 (13:28) my forever Speaker 2 (13:29) home. Yeah. And it's absolutely, guys, if you haven't seen it, it's absolutely gorgeous. It's beautiful. And I Speaker 1 (13:34) built it to be with people. I'm an in-person person. I want people to come into the office. I really believe in us being together. I really believe in impromptu meetings. I really don't believe in bringing people on a journey through Zoom. I don't believe that's the right thing for young people. I think this is another big issue we're having where... young people aren't able to learn properly because you just pick things up being in an environment. You're going to pick something up being in the boardroom Speaker 2 (13:57) and Speaker 1 (13:57) think, oh, that's how that person handled that or I'm seeing how those nuances work. You simply can't do that from your bedroom on a screen. Speaker 2 (14:05) So Speaker 1 (14:05) I built this place to say, A, I want people to come back to work, but B, we can do this together and I can't do this alone. And the people that I work with are amazing and really believe in my vision and we hold hands on that together. that does not mean that I don't check and want to see everything in my business as going out from a creative perspective. That is, you know, who we are as a business. We are handpicking how we want to show up and I am militant about what that vision needs to look like. Speaker 2 (14:35) And Speaker 1 (14:35) so my creative team, they understand that. It doesn't mean that I'm micromanaging them on a minute-by-minute basis. It does mean that the vision is super clear Speaker 2 (14:43) and Speaker 1 (14:44) that end goal needs to match that vision. And I