308. ¿Cómo regulamos a las grandes tecnológicas?

No es el fin del mundo

This episode examines the growing imperative to regulate Big Tech companies, focusing on the European Union's regulatory push against the overwhelming market and geopolitical power of American tech

Key takeaways

• GAFAM companies (Apple, Google/Alphabet, Microsoft, Amazon, Meta) hold a combined market valuation roughly 14 times greater than the entire Spanish stock market.
• Meta faces mounting legal pressure in the US, including an $18 billion settlement related to Instagram's documented impact on minors' addiction and mental health.

Main topics

• Big Tech market dominance & GAFAM valuation
• EU regulatory frameworks (GDPR, Digital Markets Act)

Notable quotes

"When elephants fight, the grass suffers."

Conclusion

The episode concludes that while outright bans on social media are counterproductive, enforcing

Transcript preview

Speaker 3 (0:04) When elephants fight, the grass suffers. That African proverb illustrates one of the greatest economic and geopolitical impulses of our time, which is maintained by the European Union and some of the largest companies on the planet. You surely know them. They are the great technologies. Our life is already spinning around them. We need them for practically everything. But the feeling is that they are accumulating more and more power. That's why today, in No es el fin del mundo, we ask ourselves, how can we regulate the great technologies? Speaker 2 (0:40) No es el fin del mundo, el podcast semanal del orden mundial. Speaker 3 (0:48) Well, well, well, what a pleasure. You could have heard the applause, it's wonderful. Today we are in Cullera, in Valencia, at the LaDemo Festival. It's a little hot, but we're in September, so in this context of climate crisis, we couldn't expect anything very different, but we're very happy because we're very well accompanied in an episode that, well, today I advance to be a little shorter than what the audience in general are used to, because at the festival there has to be more rotation, but well, I think it's going to be... Very interesting and today's topic is very relevant. We are going to introduce today's guest. Jara Monter, how are you doing Jara? Speaker 1 (1:23) Well, very good. I told Edu before that I made a mistake coming from black because I'm going to have a lot of heat, but at the same time it's a benefit because you won't notice it. I won't sweat, so it's okay. Speaker 3 (1:34) Black is stylish and you don't sweat, so there are two goals in your favor. But then, as the sun is out, it's more complicated. Eduardo Saldaña, player, has come here today. With two Speaker 1 (1:46) buttons on the back. Speaker 3 (1:47) I don't Speaker 1 (1:48) care. Speaker 3 (1:48) I'm sorry. Eduardo, get up and let them see you're here. You're doing the episode in the shower. But... Speaker 4 (1:58) I'm going to tell you, I came and I didn't respect the dress code of the festival and I had put on long pants, like, because we're Speaker 3 (2:05) going Speaker 4 (2:05) to do a podcast for you, and I had put on elegant. And you've been claudicating. When I saw the pool, I saw the heat and I said, I'm going to change in the car because I can't anymore. Speaker 1 (2:12) Now he feels Speaker 4 (2:13) like Speaker 1 (2:13) he's Speaker 4 (2:13) at Speaker 1 (2:13) work, with his hair up. Speaker 4 (2:16) There are people here who came with me to my trip to Cambodia. I don't know where they are, they must be there. They're there. And they've all sweated a lot together, so today we're all going to sweat Speaker 3 (2:25) and we're Speaker 4 (2:25) going Speaker 3 (2:25) to be sweat brothers. That's right. There are fans here, people are getting ready, there's a bit of wind. Yes, that's true. The sun is just in front of us. Well, you're the supervisor, Eduardo. Agüita, let's get to the point. Why? We have already talked about how to regulate large tech companies. I think it's one of the big debates. So, let's explain why we are going to talk about this topic today. Speaker 4 (2:49) Well, apart from the Speaker 3 (2:51) fact that Speaker 4 (2:51) it's Speaker 3 (2:51) a Speaker 4 (2:51) topic that is quite in order today, the idea of how to set certain limits to these companies is not new, but it is true that in recent years it has been gaining a lot of strength, especially in the European Union, and it's been a long time since that idea of seeing large tech companies as... companies that didn't get into politics. Now it sounds like a joke. You say, no, the bad guys of Speaker 2 (3:13) the Speaker 4 (3:13) big tech... They're not politicians. Exactly. Neither from the right nor from the left. I'm sorry. In the common sense. That was abandoned. Especially in the US. In the end, we've seen that the owners, the founders of the big tech companies, have a much more active political Speaker 1 (3:29) role. Speaker 4 (3:29) I think that this second Trump legislature... It's clear. In the first one, they were a bit more equidistant, but now they've thrown themselves into the pool. Therefore, the economic and commercial problem that the big tech companies were, has already been overcome to make us realize that they are companies with a lot of power at all levels. They have political, social, cultural, even geopolitical influence. If you are our listeners, you've seen it in the chapters we've touched on. So, things are getting more serious. And another element that right now... In Europe there is a huge technological dependence on these companies. We do not only depend on components like microchips, which in fact the chapter on microchips we did in Valencia, I remember now, so we do Speaker 3 (4:13) not Speaker 4 (4:13) only depend on microchips or rare earths, but also on software, and that is Speaker 3 (4:17) already Speaker 4 (4:17) a very big problem. The big technologies are suppliers. of this kind of technologies and above all, it's the American ones, not the European ones. It's true that we also have some Chinese, but they still don't have the power at their Speaker 3 (4:31) level. Speaker 4 (4:32) Give them time. Give them a year, because they're like a rocket. It's a crazy thing, the Chinese in this. So, in the end, the European Union, with that idea of strategic autonomy, is like, hey, we have to get serious. Because putting limits on them shouldn't be... Today we shouldn't be talking about whether limits can be put on them. And we should be clear on how Speaker 2 (4:52) and what limits we can set. Speaker 4 (4:54) In fact, Watif's colleagues mentioned it before at their table. They said it was the trial against Meta in the United States, which the states Speaker 2 (5:03) had Speaker 4 (5:03) denounced. I think they Speaker 2 (5:05) have Speaker 4 (5:05) accepted to pay 18 billion dollars, a piece of cake. because of the addiction of minors to Instagram, which is true that I believe that in 2026 no one doubts that the apps or all these products of this type of companies have an evident impact on our lives. It's true that some have for good, but others for bad. So I think it's a pretty cool topic and we're going to see debates in the next few years about it. Speaker 1 (5:29) Then, what happens is that, for it not to be a completely abstract debate, first with the question of Speaker 4 (5:34) whether Speaker 1 (5:34) we should or should not set the limits, if we want to land it even more, the first step is to understand what exactly are the technological grandes, because what comes to our heads is Google, but we are not talking only about Google, we are talking about many more things. In fact, a few days ago we read a headline that I am going to read to you, which is, Brussels designates ChaGPT, Reddit and Roblox as platforms subject to strict requirements and puts them under maximum surveillance. Well, Speaker 4 (6:00) I would make a chapter about Speaker 3 (6:02) Roblox, but I Speaker 4 (6:02) would put a Speaker 3 (6:03) pure... Yes, yes, I didn't know Roblox, the other day my Speaker 4 (6:05) nephew started Speaker 3 (6:05) playing it on the Play and I said, this is a mix between a Turkish bazaar and someone's mind with TDAH. I said, God, this is all full of stimuli... They're Speaker 4 (6:15) going to Speaker 3 (6:15) cancel it, Speaker 4 (6:15) we're not going to go back to a festival. Speaker 1 (6:17) No, man, no. But what we see, when we put Roblox in the bag, what we see is that it's no longer just... a Microsoft or a Google of life, but we are talking about things like GPT, which is artificial intelligence, Reddit, which is a forum, and then games, video games, etc. Speaker 4 (6:34) So, Speaker 1 (6:35) first we have to delve into what exactly we want to regulate and limit and what are the critical areas in which these companies must Speaker 4 (6:45) be regulated. Speaker 1 (6:45) That's right. Speaker 4 (6:46) Which Speaker 1 (6:46) are, in turn, aspects that are increasingly considered more critical or where their influence is greater. Speaker 3 (6:52) And Speaker 1 (6:53) since we don't Speaker 3 (6:53) want Speaker 1 (6:53) to stay in an empty space, in simply giving them a hand Speaker 3 (6:57) and we sing... No, we also Speaker 1 (7:00) want to analyze what concrete measures can be taken by the European Union to improve control over this type of companies. So, in short, the title of the chapter is how we can regulate. to the big tech companies is the goal. We Speaker 3 (7:16) have Speaker 1 (7:16) to see Speaker 4 (7:16) how we are Speaker 3 (7:17) doing. Speaker 1 (7:17) Exactly. May Speaker 3 (7:18) the sugar tremble. The debate is not yes or yes, it is undoubtedly yes, as in general any sector that has a lot of power, influence and economic impact. The question now is how. So, let's go a little bit for that. You were commenting that an important element is to define what is this of the big tech companies, because maybe we use them at Google, but we already see that Roblox or ChatGPT or OpenAI... can enter there. So, I think there is also a cultural point of going beyond the fact that there is a new generation of technological companies that are no longer the 90s of Excel and Google. I have a blog. Exactly. You no longer have to regulate only blogs. So, what do the great technological companies cover? What kind of companies are in there? And, above all, what is the current weight in the world that they may be having? Speaker 1 (8:06) The popular definition... If we talk about big tech, or big tech in English, or as it's known a little more within the bag, the seven magnificent ones, they Speaker 4 (8:16) are Speaker 1 (8:17) the largest technological companies on the planet. Other times in this podcast we have talked about them as GAFAM, which is one of the acronyms that are used, and in this group would enter Apple, Google, which has been called Google for years, it's called Alphabet, Microsoft, Amazon and Meta, that is, the old Facebook. And often, this group is also added to Nvidia, which is the chip company, and Tesla. But of course, here we are talking about all American companies. This does not mean that there are no big technologies outside the United States or that they are not on the way to being considered like that outside the United States. Like, for example, a few Chinese companies like Baidu, Alibaba, Tencent, Xiaomi... The Speaker 4 (8:56) one from Tencent too... Speaker 1 (8:59) Or, for example, we mentioned HGPT, which is OpenAI, and if we don't consider it now, it won't be soon. I would put my hand on the fire to say yes. Speaker 3 (9:08) We understand that maybe we have companies from the internet, and the internet is like the 2000s, now it's IA and other sectors. Speaker 1 (9:16) That's why NVIDIA, for example, is chips, and not necessarily a blog, as we said before. So, how is it ready? Could it be expanded? In the infinite, it is better to understand these companies by a series of common characteristics. The first would be that the raw material of these companies are the data. It is with what they work and the element that they sell, such as advertisers, or that they use massively to facilitate sales, as can be the case of Amazon with its Marketplace. For example, for the European Union, if we want to land it more in our context, from 45 million users, It's already considered a great platform. Those are the figures we manage here. Speaker 3 (9:54) Maybe it's not the end of the world in a few years. I was thinking... World Speaker 4 (9:57) order, of course. 45 million users on the web. Come here, Wanderley. We would have air conditioning here for everyone, like the Indian mayors who have it on the street while they walk. We Speaker 1 (10:08) would Speaker 4 (10:08) have air conditioning. Speaker 1 (10:10) And we would have people talking in other spots, like, how regular is the world Speaker 3 (10:14) order? Yes, Speaker 1 (10:16) but well... Obviously, if you manage such a large Speaker 2 (10:19) number Speaker 1 (10:19) of users and you are a great tech, your second characteristic is that you are a company with a huge stock value. Unimaginable. Of thousands of millions of dollars. In fact, only GAFAM, this group that we have mentioned, have an approximate value of about 17 billion. Yes, Speaker 2 (10:38) billion of Speaker 1 (10:38) dollars. And they are European billions. European Speaker 4 (10:40) billions. Billion Speaker 1 (10:42) of Speaker 4 (10:42) the good. Billion of the good. Speaker 1 (10:44) Billion of the good. In English it would be trillions. Speaker 4 (10:46) It's crazy. Yes. Speaker 1 (10:47) To put it in perspective in relation to our context, all our IBEX 35... It's Speaker 4 (10:54) worth Speaker 1 (10:54) a little more than 1.2 billion in stock value. So these five companies, the GAFAM, are worth like 14 times the entire Spanish stock market. Speaker 4 (11:02) Wow. 14 Spanish? We've Speaker 1 (11:06) already Speaker 4 (11:06) commented on this. Sometimes it's the story in which there's such a beastly concentration of wealth in things like that. It's a lot of money, that. Speaker 3 (11:13) Yes. Speaker 1 (11:13) So we're Speaker 3 (11:14) not Speaker 1 (11:14) just talking about startups. Or small businessmen who start in the garage. No, we are talking about super consolidated companies with an immense turnover, thousands of employees and who in their sector or in their own products do Speaker 4 (11:31) not Speaker 1 (11:31) have competences, they are indisputable leaders. I mean, for example, is there any