Tug of War At Labour Conference
Newscast
The episode explores the internal political tensions within the Labour Party ahead of their upcoming conference. It focuses on a 'tug of a w
Key takeaways
- Peter Kyle argues that the government must prioritize business-led economic growth over increased public spending.
- Internal friction is evident between Angela Rayner and Home Secretary Shabana Mahmood regarding immigration residency thresholds.
Main topics
- Labour Party Conference
- Economic Growth vs. Spending
Notable quotes
10 billion of cuts or 10 billion of tax rises.
Conclusion
The episode demonstrates that while Labour has found new leadership po
Transcript preview
Speaker 3 (0:00) This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Speaker 2 (0:09) Welcome to the Haunted Library. Have you come in search of a tale? This podcast invites you to browse the shelves and find stories that will linger long after you've left this place. From gothic masterpieces to pulpy penny dreadfuls, join me, Colin Morgan, with new episodes twice a week. Find The Haunted Library wherever you get your podcasts. Speaker 3 (0:38) There you are, Laura. You look like you're in an electrical lighting showroom. Speaker 8 (0:43) You've rumbled me. I'm here choosing lights for a disco that I'm going to invite every newscaster in the country to. Speaker 3 (0:49) Where are you? Speaker 8 (0:50) I'm in a studio in Liverpool, which actually is very beautifully and dramatically lit. And I'm here because it's the Labour conference this weekend and we are interviewing the prime minister tomorrow. Speaker 3 (0:58) Yes, and there are sort of shots fired, aren't there? There's a sort of rumble in the jungle between ministers who are meant to have collective responsibility. Speaker 8 (1:07) Yes, there is, and we'll talk about that today. And there's also some kind of helpful advice from people who didn't get a job in the Cabinet. But I've got to say, overall, the mood around Labour is transformed since this time last year. And they are very happy. Yeah, I mean, well, I haven't been to the conference centre yet, but I've talked to a lot of people. on the phone and it is a different universe with the new boss. But Paddy, look at energy prices, look at petrol prices, look at diesel prices, look at the cost of how much it's costing the government to pay for all it's borrowing from years gone by. There is a suggestion and there is a bit of a creeping mood in the corners of the Labour Party that they're happy now, but by Halloween things might feel very different. Speaker 3 (1:49) Let's spook ourselves on this Saturday newscast. Speaker 8 (2:12) Do Speaker 3 (2:12) we play music now or what do we do? Speaker 3 (2:16) Hello, it's Paddy in the studio. And Speaker 8 (2:18) it's Laura in the studio in Liverpool. Do you feel lonely? You look a bit lonely in the shot. You've got three empty chairs. Speaker 3 (2:24) Yes, but there's lots of photographs of Adam and Chris I could stroke if I was so psychotically minded. I read in the paper that Andy Burnham didn't even stay for Keir Starmer's speech last year. Speaker 8 (2:35) Oh, he didn't because he had to leave sort of an embarrassment. So if we go back in time. Last year, Andy Burnham said we shouldn't have to be in hocks to the bond markets. Now, newscasters, you might think, yeah, quite right. Why should a country be pushed around by the mighty financial markets? The problem is if a government's borrowed billions and billions and billions of pounds in a way that sadly you can't ignore what your mortgage provider tells you if they send you a stiff letter. You also, as a government that has its own rules around borrowing and spending, ignore messages from. the bond market he moaned about. And after that whole thing, he sort of left early before the Starmer speech. He caused a huge flurry. And bizarrely, I remember some of Starmer's team sort of saying, ha, Andy's blown himself up. He's seen himself off. He's out of the way now. We're fine. Speaker 3 (3:23) Oh. Oh, yeah. I mean, so because he's good. The critique is he's very good on the vibes. He's got the charm. But the rubber has to hit the road in the budget in late October. The lending prices or the borrowing prices for the government has gone up much as it has for consumers. Diesel prices are hitting a record high. Where's the money is the question that we've been talking about since the Liz Trust moment, really. So this weekend brings it all together. He's going to give us a vision. He's going to be on your sofa. He's going to say what Burnhamism is, if there was any doubt about it. It's going to give us more Burnhamism. Speaker 2 (3:57) But Speaker 3 (3:57) he's going to be surrounded by people saying, well, if Burnhamism costs any more than Starmerism, where is it going to come from? Speaker 8 (4:04) That's right. And I, you know, talked to a lot of people in the last couple of days and I've written about it for the website today. It feels to me like there is a tug of war and Andy Burnham's got the little handkerchief in the middle. Right. Where is it going to pull? So on the left, you've got union leaders. You've got people on the left of the Labour Party who think, aha, Andy Burnham is one of us. What are we going to be able to show to people that they're going to keep more of their taxes? There's going to be more investment. Maybe he should change those rules on borrowing and spending, the fiscal rules, as they're called. Then on the right of the party, on the right of Labour, you've got others. And we'll talk about Peter Kyle in a minute or two saying, hang on a minute. You have to show that you've got a serious grip. of the cash and that's going to have to mean cutting back on some kinds of spending if you're going to pay for all the things that people really really need and this sort of growing uh critique if you like of andy burnham actually as put very colorfully by the boss of the iceland supermarket richard walker who was kirsten's cost of living czar was essentially since he's been in number 10 andy burnham's like being fat being like father christmas There have been lots of giveaways. He's taken VAT off energy bills for a few months. We know he wants to sort out social care, which would cost loads of money. We know he wants to build loads of houses, which would cost loads of money. But the other side of the ledger, that's not so clear. Speaker 3 (5:28) He has said in the papers, he's done this round of regional interviews, your colleagues, nearly 30 of them had a sit down with him yesterday, representing all the great parts of our UK and often some of the best journalists too. They had the Prime Minister, they got him to say, to rule out an election till 2029, which we haven't done, the Westminster chattering people. He said that to them. He also says he wants to deliver hope. So the question is... Can some hope come free? Because obviously Keir Starmer was criticised for being bad at politics and that was said by his friends. It's not being said by me. He was said to be bad at politics. Andy Burnham is said by his friends to be better at politics. So can he deliver some hope in Liverpool, which doesn't come with a price tag for John Healey to pick up in October? I Speaker 8 (6:15) think that is exactly the challenge. You've absolutely hit the nail on the head. For the Labour Party, traditionally... what comes after slogans like hope and change and everything will all be marvellous and come with me to a city on a hill, it's normally followed by, and yes, there'll be more money for the health service. And yes, there'll be more money for schools. And yes, there'll be more money for this, that and the other. The financial situation for the country right now is pretty bleak. And is Andy Burnham willing to level with people about that? Is he willing to spell out... anywhere where he might be happy to take money out or to stop spending. And that really is the critique that runs through sort of all the political chatter right now. Also, that's what runs through and preoccupies people in the financial markets who work in the City of London. And of course, for Labour, traditionally... I mean, this is a traditional Labour argument, isn't it? But it's also it's the traditional terrain between Labour and the Conservatives. The Conservatives' traditional accusation is Labour blows the budget. Tories have to come and sweep it up. Labour then says, oh, Tories have cut back too much. We have to come in and correct it. And we're in this very, very traditional tussle. But we're also at an unusual moment where you have. And this is a bit of a tongue twister. I think I tried this last week. You've got a midterm prime minister who wants to show progress in the short term, but so far is only really happy talking about the long term. I Speaker 3 (7:45) like to talk about growth because the one thing that is growing very strongly is the price of government debt. It's gone above 5%. The actual growth of the economy is 0.3 of 1%. And you've been speaking to an influential Labour figure who says... That's the figure, the figure that I've just given for growth of the UK economy that Labour should be grappling