Carrie, Cult Classics & Chaos: A Sit Down with Matthew Lillard

Morbid

Matthew Lillard joins Morbid for a sprawling, laughter-filled conversation covering his iconic filmography, career struggles, and current projects like the Amazon Prime series Carrie. He

Key takeaways

• Matthew Lillard discusses his upcoming Amazon Prime series Carrie, praising lead actress Summer H. Howell's audition process and performance alongside Sam Sloyan.
• He reveals he originally auditioned for Billy in Scream but was quickly cast as Stu Mocker after a spontaneous reading with Wes Craven.

Main topics

• Carrie Amazon Prime adaptation & Mike Flanagan's direction
• Career struggles, financial lows, and Hollywood realities

Notable quotes

I don't know how we're here. I'm still not sure how this all happened.

Conclusion

The episode offers an unfiltered look at Lillard's journey from Hollywood outsider to

Transcript preview

Speaker 3 (0:00) Hey, weirdos. I'm Ash. I'm Alayna. Speaker 1 (0:02) I'm Josh Hartnett. Speaker 3 (0:03) And this is Morbid. Speaker 3 (0:20) with Matthew Lillard cosplaying as Josh Hartnett. How Speaker 1 (0:23) handsome am I? So handsome. Pretty handsome. As Josh. Speaker 3 (0:27) Of Speaker 1 (0:28) course. Speaker 2 (0:28) That's what I was talking Speaker 3 (0:29) about. Speaker 1 (0:30) That's Speaker 3 (0:30) who you are today. Speaker 1 (0:30) I loved you Speaker 2 (0:31) in that M. Night Shyamalan movie. Speaker 1 (0:33) Which one was that? What Speaker 2 (0:35) was it called? The Trap. The Trap. You Speaker 1 (0:37) don't really love my work. If you really love my work, you would have said Wicker Park. Wicker Park. He also stars with... I also start with Matthew Lillard. I start, I have a problem with my, I don't identify as a he, she, I identify as a Josh Hartnett. I Speaker 3 (0:56) like that. I like that. Those are good. Period. I don't. Now we're set up. Now we're set up. Now Speaker 2 (1:02) we know. Yeah. I Speaker 1 (1:03) love working with Matthew Lillard. He's so dreamy. He Speaker 3 (1:06) really is. Speaker 1 (1:07) He has Speaker 3 (1:07) an Speaker 1 (1:07) incredible chin. Everyone says that about him. An incredible chin. That's what Josh Hartnett would say about Matthew Lillard. I Speaker 2 (1:13) feel like you're right. Yeah. Speaker 1 (1:15) I Speaker 2 (1:15) will say this. Speaker 1 (1:16) I did this movie. I did that movie, Wicker Park. And it was Rose Byrne, him, and Diana Kruger. Oh, Speaker 2 (1:26) man. Speaker 1 (1:26) And we were in Montreal, which is a very sexy city. And they all sat there and, like, smoked cigarettes, and they talked about art. Because they're super cool. I have never wanted to be a cigarette smoker in my life. And I would, like, watch all these beautiful people just, like. Just blackening their lungs. Yes, but death has never looked so handsome. It looks cool. They were all beautiful. Oh, yeah. Speaker 2 (1:55) Smoking never has been sexier. But then you can just think about their lungs being like... Speaker 1 (2:00) When you cut open a body and somebody's a cigarette smoker, can you see it? Oh, yeah. Oh, Speaker 3 (2:06) yes. How do you know? Speaker 1 (2:07) She Speaker 3 (2:07) tells me stories. I used to smoke cigarettes. I'm Speaker 1 (2:09) asking Speaker 3 (2:09) the mortician. All Speaker 1 (2:10) right, Speaker 3 (2:10) I'll sit back. The Speaker 1 (2:11) autopsy test. Speaker 2 (2:12) It's how I got her to stop smoking cigarettes. Speaker 1 (2:14) You smoked? Yeah, when I was Speaker 2 (2:16) like a teenager. You're Speaker 1 (2:16) so dangerous. I know. She was such a rebel. Did you feel sexy? Speaker 3 (2:21) No, I felt stressed. Speaker 1 (2:23) when I would smoke cigarettes. Because you were getting caught? No, I was smoking to relieve stress. I knew you would catch me. Speaker 3 (2:30) Yeah. Speaker 1 (2:31) It Speaker 3 (2:31) did? Yeah, you get like a Speaker 1 (2:32) little Speaker 2 (2:32) buzz. Speaker 2 (2:34) But you don't want to do it. Your lungs will look like shit. Speaker 3 (2:37) That's not a PSA to do it. Speaker 2 (2:38) Your lungs will look like shit if you do it. They really will. But then they regenerate, right? Speaker 3 (2:43) But it Speaker 2 (2:44) takes a little while. Are Speaker 3 (2:45) mine regenerated now? Oh, yeah. Yours is probably good. Love Speaker 1 (2:47) that. Speaker 3 (2:48) But Speaker 2 (2:48) yeah, they look like rotted. Ew. And they're shrivelly. Speaker 1 (2:51) Wait, why are you here? Don't you guys normally shoot somewhere else? Yeah. Speaker 2 (2:55) We're at our house. Where's your house? It's in Massachusetts. Speaker 1 (2:59) How's Massachusetts? Where in Massachusetts? Speaker 2 (3:02) What Speaker 1 (3:02) if I come by later for dinner? Would that be creepy? No, not at all. How are you doing this? Why did you guys start this? Speaker 3 (3:09) She was an autopsy tech and she's creepy. And I needed a job. Speaker 1 (3:13) Ew. You get to come Speaker 2 (3:15) next to me. Speaker 3 (3:16) She hasn't cut up bodies in a few years. Are Speaker 1 (3:19) you Speaker 3 (3:19) still not Speaker 1 (3:19) doing it? You're just doing this full time? Speaker 2 (3:20) No. And I miss it. Speaker 1 (3:22) I would do it Speaker 2 (3:23) again. Speaker 1 (3:23) People die every day. They do. We talk a lot about Speaker 3 (3:26) it. Speaker 1 (3:26) There Speaker 3 (3:26) is Speaker 1 (3:26) an opportunity for you to dig Speaker 3 (3:27) right in. I Speaker 1 (3:27) could always go back. Literally. I have a friend of mine in Pasadena who's a mortician. Yeah? Speaker 2 (3:34) Morticians are even better. Speaker 1 (3:35) Well, that's like the whole preparation of the body in any condition. Take Speaker 2 (3:39) out the fluids. Yeah, but even if you Speaker 1 (3:40) catch somebody who's taken their life or hurt... mortally wounded in a sword fight, you prepare them for burial. It's Speaker 3 (3:51) a Speaker 1 (3:51) pretty crazy... He has been picking up bodies since he was in high school. Speaker 3 (3:56) He'd have Speaker 1 (3:56) a beeper go off and be like, -"I gotta go get a body." -"Just like in the middle of math class?" Yeah, because he's like... It's his family business. Speaker 2 (4:02) Yeah, he said he loves to move around. Yeah. Speaker 1 (4:05) You love that? Family Speaker 2 (4:06) business? In high school, you just leave to pick up bodies? I once did an Speaker 1 (4:09) event in Kansas. Yeah. And the guy that picked me up was like, I got picked up in a limo. And it was like a speaking event in Oklahoma. Sorry, it was Oklahoma. It was Oklahoma City. And I'm like, oh, this is going to be kind of crazy to go see Oklahoma City. He picked me up in a limo and he's like, yeah, I have to go back to work. I'm like, oh, aren't you the driver? He's like, no, I'm a mortician. Speaker 3 (4:34) So he got picked up. Speaker 2 (4:35) You're like, Speaker 3 (4:35) I'm alive. They use Speaker 1 (4:37) for funerals. To transport their bodies. And he was a mortician with a side gig. What Speaker 3 (4:42) the hell? Yeah, Speaker 1 (4:43) picking up famous people. Maybe not that famous. Speaker 3 (4:45) That's Speaker 2 (4:45) a Speaker 3 (4:45) side hustle. That's pretty cool. Well, is it? Yeah. That's pretty Speaker 1 (4:48) good. Two truths Speaker 3 (4:49) and a lie, you know? Yeah. That's good for Speaker 1 (4:50) you. Speaker 3 (4:50) That's Speaker 1 (4:51) good. Yeah, I like that. Yeah. What's the other thing people would be surprised about that you see as you open a body? Speaker 2 (4:57) That everything looks the same color, for the most part. Except your gallbladder, it's green. Ew. Yeah. Here on Speaker 1 (5:06) Morbridge, you learn something every episode. Speaker 2 (5:09) You sure do. I think people think they're all different colors because in like an anatomy book, all the organs are like different colors. But it's all one big Speaker 1 (5:16) splash of brown. Like if you had a, like what color, what, what Pantone is the inside of your guts? That's a good question. It's. Can I get a Pantone chart? Yeah, I was going to say. Can Speaker 2 (5:28) I get a Speaker 1 (5:28) Pantone chart? Excuse Speaker 2 (5:30) us. It's like a putrid. Ew. That's a Speaker 1 (5:32) terrible word, first of all. It's what Speaker 2 (5:35) it is. It's putrid mauve-y. Speaker 1 (5:38) Like muddy mauve-y. Oh yeah, like an ugly eggplant? Yeah, like a really like... Can you imagine walking into somebody's brand new kitchen? I'm like, oh, Speaker 2 (5:48) I love the... Speaker 3 (5:49) Putrid eggplant. Speaker 1 (5:52) Let me ask you another question. Speaker 2 (5:53) Ask away. Speaker 1 (5:56) When you cut open a head, Speaker 2 (5:58) what's Speaker 1 (6:00) it smell like? Speaker 2 (6:01) What's it smell like? Here's the problem. I have a deviated septum. So I was, it was the best job for me because I can't smell very well. So it's not the same as everything else. It tastes, Speaker 1 (6:13) actually the Speaker 2 (6:14) smell, the smell tastes like something though. The smell stays in your throat. So it feels like later you can taste it. What Speaker 3 (6:22) does it taste like? Speaker 2 (6:23) Well, a lot of times you'll get like a chemically taste because of everything in the room. But it's also a sewer-y kind of taste. I Speaker 3 (6:31) hate this Speaker 2 (6:31) show. Speaker 3 (6:31) That's the best way I can describe it. You Speaker 2 (6:35) did Speaker 1 (6:35) this. We weren't going to talk about any of that. We were not going to do this. Well, I am not interested in talking about meat at all. That's a problem. I'd much rather talk about true crimes. Isn't that what you guys are known for? Speaker 3 (6:46) Yeah, it is what we're known for. That's why I'm Speaker 1 (6:48) here. Speaker 3 (6:49) That's a conflict of interest. Okay, let Speaker 1 (6:52) me ask you a couple questions. Of course you can. By the way, I very much want to host a podcast someday. You can host this one. No, in general. You should do it. I Speaker 3 (7:03) want to create and Speaker 1 (7:03) own a podcast. Speaker 3 (7:03) Hell yeah. And Speaker 1 (7:04) you guys are super popular. Thank Speaker 3 (7:06) you. They Speaker 1 (7:06) were like, do you want to do more of it? I'm like, I don't know what that is. Speaker 3 (7:09) I'm not a podcast Speaker 1 (7:11) guy. Yeah. Speaker 2 (7:13) And Speaker 1 (7:13) if I do, it's usually politically based. But I'm just not that guy. Now you can listen to Speaker 2 (7:17) Morbid. Speaker 1 (7:18) I'm really, I like, first of all, I've been here eight minutes. I love you both. Speaker 2 (7:21) Oh my God, thank Speaker 1 (7:22) you. We love you. I really like the two of you. We loved you when you walked in. You did? Speaker 2 (7:26) Yeah. It's true. Speaker 3 (7:27) You were immediately disarming. Well, you never know what to expect when you meet someone. Sometimes it's awkward. Immediately you were just like, hey, let's hang. Speaker 1 (7:35) Yeah. I do think that celebrities sometimes. Speaker 1 (7:38) or Speaker 1 (7:41) I don't know if it's intentional, but intentionally aloof. Speaker 3 (7:45) Yeah. Speaker 1 (7:46) Or they just sort of like, yeah, I have lots of thoughts about that. What do you guys want to talk about? Speaker 2 (7:51) We're going to talk about Carrie. Speaker 1 (7:52) Oh, Speaker 2 (7:52) great. Speaker 1 (7:53) I love it. Speaker 2 (7:53) And everything else Speaker 3 (7:54) that you've done, too. Not everything, but a lot Speaker 1 (7:57) of Speaker 3 (7:57) stuff. Yeah, we would be Speaker 1 (7:58) here Speaker 2 (7:58) for days if we talked about everything. There's a lot, right? There is a lot. Speaker 1 (8:01) When you start really looking into the amount of stuff I've done, it's crazy. Yeah, it's Speaker 2 (8:05) bonkers. But we'll start with Carrie. Most of it's Speaker 1 (8:07) really shitty. You were in Summer Catch. Disagree. I rest my case. Speaker 2 (8:12) Billy Brubaker. Speaker 3 (8:13) She's all that. Speaker 1 (8:14) There's lots of them. The dance Speaker 3 (8:15) scene. We actually don't have anything about the dance scene in here and I have to just address it. Speaker 2 (8:19) Yeah. And that's it. Just the dance scene. Yeah. I love that scene. You know, it's Speaker 1 (8:24) funny. People always ask me, like, was that improv'd? I was going to Speaker 3 (8:29) ask you that. Yeah. Speaker 1 (8:30) Nothing in Hollywood's improv'd. That Speaker 3 (8:32) makes sense. Speaker 1 (8:32) Like, that whole thing took... you know, weeks to practice. And then every one of those shots takes like, you know, 45 minutes to set up. So nothing is like... Speaker 2 (8:43) It looked like you were just flowing. Do you still know that dance? Speaker 1 (8:47) Watch this shit. Speaker 3 (8:48) Let's see it. Move the table. Speaker 2 (8:52) Everybody Speaker 3 (8:52) clear Speaker 2 (8:53) a space. Speaker 3 (8:54) Hit it, Bob! I'm like, we actually queued up the song. I mean, Speaker 1 (8:58) I'm sure I could watch it immediately. fall right back into it. I love dancing. Yeah. I love to dance. You're great at it. You Speaker 2 (9:06) are. Thanks. That's a great scene. You're welcome. You're welcome. Speaker 3 (9:09) All right. Speaker 1 (9:10) Let's talk about Carrie. Yeah, great. Okay, perfect. Speaker 2 (9:12) So we're going to start with talking about how I've heard that this version of Carrie is way closer to the Stephen King novel version. You Speaker 1 (9:20) guys haven't seen it, huh? We just Speaker 2 (9:21) started watching it. I watched the first episode last night. Speaker 1 (9:24) Oh, good. And Speaker 2 (9:25) can I just say something right now? So the Carrie. Yeah. The girl who plays Carrie looks like, so I have 10-year-old twins and a 7-year-old. She looks like an older version of one of my twins. Oh. And she also, like, acts like her, like, has the same mannerisms. She has the same facial expressions. Watching her, that close-up of her when she's, like, agonized in the locker room shattered me. Oh, I sobbed. Like, Speaker 3 (9:51) I am Speaker 2 (9:51) done. I was like, I don't even know if I can do it. Speaker 1 (9:53) Oh, you did? Oh, Speaker 2 (9:54) yeah. Speaker 1 (9:54) Yeah. Speaker 2 (9:55) Like, the bullying scenes with her, she killed me. Speaker 1 (9:59) No, that this made me so happy. Yeah, I don't know that made me like I am Speaker 1 (10:11) so proud of the show. You should be. It's incredible. It's very little to do with me. But that, the woman that plays Carrie, her name's Summer H. Howell. And she is, they auditioned 1,400 girls. Wow. Women. And they found, the system worked. And it's like one of those things that the system never Speaker 2 (10:33) works. She Speaker 1 (10:34) submitted a tape. A month later, like she submitted another tape. Two months later, she submitted another tape and then she started to catch fire. And then she did her last audition with Mike. And then she's like, oh, and she told the story this morning. She's like, I finally, I'm finally done. No, she auditioned one last time. Like this is going to Mike. And she's like, okay, good. I've got the weekend off and may hear something on Monday. And 20 minutes later, she's pulling herself a bath, and Mike Flanagan called back and said, I want you to do it again right now, and I want you to find emotion in these scenes. Speaker 3 (11:11) She found it. She did. And she Speaker 1 (11:13) did it. And like, on April 1st, she got the job. Oh my God. Imagine getting Speaker 3 (11:19) that job offer on Speaker 2 (11:20) April 1st. I was Speaker 3 (11:20) just gonna say, I am so nervous. Are you sure? I'd be like, don't fuck with me. Speaker 1 (11:24) She is simply remarkable. She is... Speaker 1 (11:31) Effortlessly brilliant the entire show. It Speaker 3 (11:34) comes Speaker 2 (11:34) across, Speaker 1 (11:35) even just in the first episode. Every Speaker 2 (11:37) facial expression she makes when she's just like unsure and agonized and people aren't telling her what's going on. I was like, it was like destroying me. And the Speaker 1 (11:47) idea that you don't know you're having your period. And the idea that you immediately go to, I am done. Speaker 2 (11:53) And why would you not think you're dying? Speaker 1 (11:56) Here's this blood. I mean, it's really, it's... And. Speaker 1 (12:01) The thing I just want to say, you know, this idea that she makes faces. Speaker 3 (12:05) Mm-hmm. Speaker 1 (12:06) is not what she's doing. She has zero conception of what she's doing. It's Speaker 3 (12:10) just Speaker 1 (12:10) what's happening. It's natural. It's so real. An actor in flow, an actor who's a really brilliant actor, has zero consideration of what's happening. Speaker 2 (12:19) It's just organic. They're Speaker 1 (12:20) just responding. They're listening and responding, and the energy is contagious. You can see that with her. And she's remarkable. And then at the same time, Sam Sloyan, who plays her mother, Speaker 2 (12:30) as Speaker 1 (12:31) you continue through this journey, you're going to be like, this woman is a... is literally one of the best actors working today. And has been for a long time, just nobody sees it. And here comes her performance of a lifetime. And my hope is that if for no other reason, you should watch this show for their two performances. Because as the show grows, the story continues to evolve. The story's brilliant. Mike Flanagan's an incredible filmmaker. But these two performances are remarkable. Speaker 3 (12:59) Oh, yeah. Speaker 2 (13:00) Because she plays Beverly in Midnight Mass. Speaker 1 (13:03) Incredible. And Midnight Mass is one Speaker 2 (13:05) of Speaker 1 (13:05) my favorites. Midnight Mass. That's how I found Mike. Mike and I had lunch, got along great. He's like, I'm like, what? And I told him, to be honest with you, I don't know any of your works. What do you think I should watch? He's like, try Midnight Mass. Speaker 2 (13:16) I love that because that's my favorite. I Speaker 1 (13:18) haven't Speaker 2 (13:18) seen it yet, but we're going to watch it together. And she plays a character. And in fact... Because Ash watched Carrie for like the first episode first. And she was like, wait until you see her mother. Her mother is the perfect, like perfectly cast. Speaker 3 (13:31) And as soon as she said Speaker 2 (13:33) it, she was like, oh my God, she just Speaker 3 (13:34) embodies Speaker 2 (13:34) it. And I was like, I wonder if it's the woman who played. Bev in Midnight Mass. Like, I just knew it. I was like, it sounds like it. And I looked it up and I was like, yep, that was her. I knew that was her. You Speaker 1 (13:43) know what's funny? Speaker 2 (13:43) We went to Speaker 1 (13:43) Comic-Con for the first time. San Diego Comic-Con. If you've never been to Comic-Con, it's like this. Have you guys done Comic-Con? We haven't. You should. Speaker 2 (13:50) I know. I kind of want to. I would love to. Next Speaker 1 (13:52) year, check out Weirdos. Come check out the podcast at Comic-Con. It's going to be awesome. We'll Speaker 2 (13:57) be Speaker 1 (13:57) there. We're going to do a live show. It's going to be fab. Oh, yeah. Enjoying us. Her and Mike have never done Comic-Con. And when we came out, we had Hall H. We had a massive hall. I don't think we did Hall H. It was a huge hall. Speaker 2 (14:10) And Speaker 1 (14:11) it was packed. And both Mike and Sam were met with this fervor. Oh, yeah. As they should. I mean, Mike understands it, but I don't think Sam's ever really heard that firsthand. Right. And they showed us the first time they screened, like, a clip, scenes. It was awesome. Speaker 2 (14:27) That's so cool. It was awesome, and I Speaker 1 (14:28) loved them both. Yeah. And so it's... It's been great to see her get her flowers. Speaker 2 (14:33) Yeah, definitely. And I love Mike Flanagan. I know. I was so excited that he had this. Like, he was in control of this. I Speaker 1 (14:39) was Speaker 2 (14:39) like, oh, it's gonna be good. I Speaker 1 (14:40) want you to know something. He is better than you think. I love Mike Flanagan. I love hearing that. You're actually incredible. Oh, Speaker 2 (14:47) that makes me so happy. So, can I tell Speaker 1 (14:49) you something? I don't know if it's gonna land, and I don't know if it'll land with the podcast world, but we show up. First of all, you never have rehearsal. First of all, does anyone care about this? I care. Carrie, for one more second? Yes. Oh, yeah. We have plenty more. Please go. If it gets boring, just cut it. Yeah. Speaker 2 (15:06) Ladies and gentlemen, there's a good chance you're never going to see this because Speaker 1 (15:08) I'm a boring, boring man. No way. So, yeah, so you never, so many times you do a TV show, you'll get your script, you'll get the pilot, you'll read that as you go into the work. you know, two days before you're starting to shoot the next episode, along comes the next script. When we signed up, we had all eight scripts. Speaker 3 (15:26) When Speaker 1 (15:26) we got there, we had three and a half weeks, a month of rehearsal before the start of Carrie. The first time we walked into rehearsal... Mike Flanagan said, we're gonna do these scenes. The idea here is that you get to know each other, but we get to do them on those, we get these scenes on their feet. He's like, okay, in this scene, like the first time we work, he's like, we're gonna shoot it on this day. The time that we're gonna shoot it is between this time and this time. On this, on these first five lines, I'm gonna be on this take, and then I'm gonna reverse here. You're gonna be sitting there and I'm gonna, and then these lines, I'm gonna be on her. And then these lines are gonna be on a wide. So... He already knows where it lives in the cut, at what time he's going to shoot it, on what day. five months before we shoot, a month before we shoot a single frame. Speaker 3 (16:17) That's Speaker 1 (16:17) crazy. Speaker 3 (16:17) Wow. I heard there was an app, too, that you could... Yeah, that's really cool. So he literally Speaker 1 (16:21) published an app so you could see every day where you were. That Speaker 2 (16:25) is Speaker 1 (16:25) incredible. That's Speaker 2 (16:26) like Speaker 1 (16:26) next level. Yeah. I feel like more people need to do that, right? Well, nobody has that capacity. I've never seen anything like that in my life. Why do you think he does? Because he starts... Did I just hold your hand? You did for a second. Moral Speaker 2 (16:41) support. Speaker 1 (16:42) Because he starts, how long do you think we're going to hold hands before this gets uncomfortable? Speaker 2 (16:46) Just Speaker 1 (16:46) the Speaker 2 (16:46) whole time. We'll just have to scroll together. Speaker 1 (16:53) He... I lost my train of thought. It's been a long time since I've held a stranger's hand. You got dabbled. This got awkward. Speaker 3 (17:00) Stroke Speaker 1 (17:01) her hair, Speaker 3 (17:01) too, you know? It got so awkward. You guys, we were Speaker 1 (17:03) sitting close. It was about to happen. It was going to Speaker 2 (17:05) bomb. But yeah, you never Speaker 1 (17:07) have that kind of, I've never seen. I'm sure maybe it happened somewhere else. I'm going to get all this hate mail like, Christopher Nolan has it seven years in advance. He's done it Speaker 2 (17:18) for all of his sequels. He Speaker 1 (17:19) did it first. Yeah, yeah. But he's remarkable and kind. And he lays down these rules. The rules are no phones on set. Don't be late. And no sides. A lot of times actors come to set and they'll have their sides. There's like this. a safety net. He's like, that's not what we do here. Oh, Speaker 3 (17:35) I like that. You come Speaker 1 (17:36) and you're ready to work. He's like, this is not Speaker 3 (17:38) a middle school dance. You can't Speaker 1 (17:39) be Speaker 3 (17:39) on sides. Speaker 1 (17:40) We did a, um, we did this huge scene where we're, there's like 400 extras and... Speaker 1 (17:47) I have a speech in front of this community and no signs, which is like, you know, you're nervous. Your body, your instrument's responding and your adrenaline's rushing and you're like, you know, sometimes things just slip out. Yeah. That happens to Speaker 3 (18:03) you? Uh, Speaker 1 (18:04) yeah. Speaker 2 (18:05) I'm just kidding. What? What do you mean? What? Speaker 1 (18:08) I'm very old. Things slip out all the time. I'm only Speaker 2 (18:11) 30 and that happens to me too. As soon as I hit 40, that really started happening. You've never really had Speaker 3 (18:16) a filter. No. Speaker 2 (18:17) It's an us thing. From birth. Well, staying on Carrie, because first of all, again, I love Mike Flanagan. So I'm so happy to hear that he's who I thought he was. Like who I pictured him in my head. The Speaker 3 (18:29) best. Speaker 2 (18:31) I was reading that you also have, like, a somewhat personal connection to some of the struggles that Carrie might go through with her peers. Speaker 1 (18:38) Sure. I had my period. I didn't know what it was. Speaker 2 (18:40) Yeah. I want to talk about that. I want to know about that. Locker rooms are tough, right? But Speaker 1 (18:44) what Speaker 2 (18:44) resonated most for you? Oh, Speaker 1 (18:46) my Speaker 2 (18:46) God. Are you talking Speaker 1 (18:47) about? I'm like... I was an obese teenager who has a severe learning disability. I had braces and glasses. I came from Detroit, Michigan to Orange County, California. Damn, Speaker 3 (18:57) that's a tough transition. Yes, and I was this fat kid Speaker 2 (19:00) who was in drama. Speaker 3 (19:01) I mean, the amount of F-bombs I caught. Oh, you were probably awesome. Oh, my God. Speaker 1 (19:04) Yes, how many F-bombs did you catch in the mid-'80s about being an actor? Speaker 3 (19:09) Yep. You know, Speaker 1 (19:10) and listen. I'll Speaker 3 (19:12) fight them for you. It's true. I'll retroactively fight them. You know, Speaker 1 (19:15) it's funny. Speaker 1 (19:17) I had, it's not like I didn't have friends. I had a ton of friends, but all my friends were those little punk rock kids and drama kids and all these kids that were sort of outside of the popular bubble. And I've always seen myself, I think that once you're, you know, once you struggle with weight, especially as a kid, you always identify as that. You know, and my mom and dad worked full time. My dad started his own business and they just worked. And so we were raised on a steady diet of fast food and crap that we ate because we were poor, working class poor, and no time and no energy. And my mom and dad were both obese from Detroit. And so, you know, it was a brutal experience. But that allowed me... To find my voice, to be funny, to find a charm, because how do you pass a class if you can't do it? You charm the shit out of everyone. You make people... How do you not get your ass kicked? You're funnier than the guy next to you who's getting his ass kicked. You know, and so, you know, it's survival. Speaker 3 (20:25) Yeah. That's all high school is, is survival. Yeah. I feel like junior high Speaker 2 (20:29) is like... Speaker 3 (20:30) Junior high is worse. I think especially for girls. Yeah. Yeah, Speaker 1 (20:33) I do think that. I mean, you know, listen, I have two kids. I have, you know, I have three kids. I have a girl who's now 24. I have a non-binary kid who's 21 and an 18-year-old boy. So I've seen like every iteration of this story. And it continues. It's hard for everyone. I think that boys have more bravado to cover the suffering. Speaker 3 (20:56) That makes sense. And they have Speaker 1 (20:57) sports to sort of like, but, you know. It's there. It's Speaker 3 (21:01) a struggle for all of us. Speaker 2 (21:03) It's a Speaker 3 (21:03) struggle for everyone. It really is. Yeah. Well, going back to Mike Flanagan, he takes this... Do you think that that is Speaker 1 (21:08) why some of the reason that you found this podcast world? Oh, Speaker 3 (21:14) yeah. Yeah? Speaker 1 (21:15) I Speaker 3 (21:15) think partially. Because we always say you're the table or we're the table that anybody can sit at. Speaker 2 (21:19) Yeah. Speaker 3 (21:20) And that's why we call our listeners weirdos. You know? Like, it's like a place where we can all fit in and talk about weird topics without shame. You know? Speaker 2 (21:27) Yeah, Speaker 1 (21:27) yeah, Speaker 2 (21:28) yeah, yeah. See, Speaker 1 (21:28) that's why... Oh, that's why I'm here. Yeah, Speaker 2 (21:32) that's why you like us. Yeah, Speaker 1 (21:34) I immediately like you. I only like one of you, but I'm not going to tell you which one. I Speaker 2 (21:38) think I know which one. I think I know. Oh, no. Speaker 1 (21:42) I like you. I adore you both. Okay, Speaker 3 (21:45) good. Speaker 1 (21:45) I don't like that fucking guy. I don't know who that guy is. Speaker 3 (21:49) That's Mikey. Everybody loves Mikey. He Speaker 1 (21:51) has violence Speaker 3 (21:51) in his heart. Speaker 1 (21:52) I see him. Speaker 3 (21:53) He's from Canada. No, he doesn't. He's Canada? He's from Canada. Speaker 1 (21:57) There's no violence Speaker 3 (21:58) in his heart. Speaker 1 (21:59) Yeah. Speaker 3 (22:00) What about that guy? Speaker 3 (22:02) Can't read him yet. He's a film guy. He knows. He's a film guy. Speaker 1 (22:07) You know what it is? He's very smart and I don't like those kind of people. I can see. Look at his glasses. I see your glasses. Speaker 3 (22:16) These are off-camera. You can't see them, but you know them. Yeah, you know them. Speaker 1 (22:21) I like that. You're also very successful. Thank you. Thank you. And I think that's because you welcome everyone to the table. Speaker 2 (22:28) Yeah, we try. I Speaker 1 (22:29) think Speaker 2 (22:29) so, yeah. I think it's important to build other people up. You can't get up to the top if you're kicking everyone else down on the way up. I think more people need to do that. Yeah. Speaker 1 (22:41) I think especially as women, Speaker 3 (22:42) again, we need to do that. Speaker 1 (22:44) Why especially as women? In fact, I would say, I would argue, especially men should stop kicking people down. Speaker 3 (22:51) Yeah. Right? Speaker 1 (22:52) I mean... Yeah, Speaker 3 (22:52) should stop kicking people down. I think women... Just Speaker 1 (22:55) stop Speaker 3 (22:55) kicking people, period. Just stop kicking. Just stop it. Just stop it. But I think as women, we put each other down a lot. Speaker 1 (23:01) You Speaker 3 (23:01) know what I mean? So I think we Speaker 2 (23:02) need to be more like, hey, like... Come be at the top with me. There's no competition. We can all be here. Well, Speaker 1 (23:08) yeah, the world is bountiful. That was one of Speaker 2 (23:12) the Speaker 1 (23:12) things I always struggled with. I've been talking about this, like, in this last cycle of press with Carrie. I mean, I lived with Paul Rudd for two years. Speaker 2 (23:20) That's wild. That's so cool. That's a wild thing to be upset. Speaker 1 (23:23) No, I mean, we were both in the same acting school and we had three roommates. It was him and I and this guy named Dalton Grant. I was for the longest time so jealous of his success. Yeah. That it really was hard. It really hindered my own appreciation or joy of my own success. And I always compared myself. And at the end of the day, it was... so detrimental to my mental health, to my approach to the work. I mean, it was really brutal. He has no idea. Well, now he does. Right now. He's still listening. He's listening right now. But Speaker 2 (24:00) he's Speaker 1 (24:00) so lovely and so nice. But I was like, so jealous. I Speaker 3 (24:05) was so jealous and so insecure. Speaker 2 (24:08) We've all been there. But then once you realize that... you can move on from it. Speaker 3 (24:11) Yeah, you Speaker 2 (24:12) can break out of it. And at least you realize it in the next one. Speaker 1 (24:14) That's why I'm talking about Speaker 3 (24:15) it, I Speaker 1 (24:16) think. I feel like the older I get, the more I can let go of, like, my own... you know, idiosyncratic, like, bullshit. Speaker 3 (24:25) Yeah. I turned 30 this year and I feel like I'm etching or stepping closer to, like, not really caring what other people think. Yeah, wait till Speaker 1 (24:33) you get to 50. Speaker 3 (24:33) She says wait till you get to 40. Yeah, 40 was awesome. Speaker 1 (24:36) I Speaker 3 (24:36) mean, Speaker 1 (24:36) 50 is like, I mean, what do I care? Why do I care? Speaker 3 (24:40) I can't imagine how that Speaker 1 (24:41) must feel. But I also think that it's not like a... F you to Speaker 2 (24:46) the Speaker 1 (24:46) world. No, it's just like... I do, and I like this word a lot and I say it a lot. When I teach and when I speak about acting and craft, I love the word wisdom. Like, you have a sense of wisdom, you just Speaker 3 (24:59) don't have it at 30. Speaker 1 (25:00) And I'm not... You don't have it at, you know... Maybe you do. Who am I to say people find wisdom or own their own wisdom? But for me, I was like, around 50, I was like... Speaker 1 (25:16) It seems. It sounds arrogant. Like, I have a wisdom about me. I Speaker 3 (25:23) don't Speaker 1 (25:23) think so. But I've been acting since I was 14. And you've been a Speaker 3 (25:28) lot of different people. Yeah. I've done a lot of different things. I've done Speaker 1 (25:31) a lot of classes and a lot of plays and a lot of everything. Yeah. But at some point, you, like, it really helped me to sort of acknowledge the fact, like, oh, I'm a master of what I do. Yeah. Only because of the amount of time. Yeah. Not the Speaker 3 (25:45) quality, which we'll get into as we discuss Speaker 1 (25:49) my filmography. But, you know, you learn over time. Like, you have a sense of yourself and the craft and the business and the journey and the whole thing. Speaker 2 (25:58) And it always feels like arrogance, but I think more people need to give themselves a pat on the back. Yeah. It's confidence. When you, like, figure out, like, you know what? I am good at this. Or, like, I do know more about this. Yeah. Even you saying that, I'm like, Speaker 1 (26:09) oh, no, it's not that. But it's okay to admit Speaker 2 (26:10) that. I know, but, yeah. It feels weird. Because we're taught, I think, not to do that. Humble. Speaker 1 (26:16) To be humble. Speaker 2 (26:17) Yeah, Speaker 1 (26:17) and Speaker 3 (26:17) I don't think you really need to be that humble. But every once in a while, Speaker 2 (26:19) admitting that you're good at this thing and being like, you know what? I know this stuff. And I will Speaker 1 (26:23) say this. I have such deep tendencies, and Mike Flanagan will see this, and Sam Sloyan will someday see this, but I have such deep tendencies to slag myself off. Speaker 2 (26:37) Mm-hmm. Speaker 1 (26:38) Right? This idea that I am self-deprecating to a fault. Oh, Speaker 2 (26:41) yeah. I am the same exact way. Speaker 1 (26:43) Yeah. And I want to say to you and to me that so does not serve you. No, Speaker 2 (26:47) it Speaker 1 (26:47) doesn't. No, it doesn't. It doesn't serve you at all because the bullshit you say to yourself sticks. Speaker 3 (26:51) No, you're so Speaker 1 (26:52) right. It really does. And Speaker 2 (26:53) this idea Speaker 1 (26:53) that I call myself fat constantly is like, or I'm an outsider. I mean, all this language is so stupid. Speaker 2 (26:59) Because it trains your brain to believe it. Yes. I was just going to say that. It really does. Do Speaker 3 (27:03) you see Speaker 2 (27:03) that when Speaker 1 (27:03) you crack open a head? Speaker 2 (27:04) Yeah, Speaker 1 (27:05) you can see it written all over Speaker 2 (27:07) everything. Speaker 1 (27:08) It's Speaker 3 (27:08) etched in your brain. Well, I even think like the beginning of this podcast to now, I used to make fun of myself so much more often in the beginning. I used to call myself trash in the beginning. And I do, I'm still a little trash. Yeah, Speaker