274. "We have a newborn and 89% of our income is already spent...Now what?"

Money For Couples with Ramit Sethi - Ramit Sethi

Shelby and Calvin, a couple with a newborn and significant financial strain, seek help from Ramit Sethi after discovering hidden debt and struggling with

Key takeaways

• Financial transparency is essential for building trust; hidden debts erode relationship stability.
• Money management should be a partnership, not one person leading alone—even if they're more knowledgeable.

Main topics

• Financial transparency in relationships
• Debt management for new parents

Notable quotes

You will not walk out of this room without making dramatic changes.

Money is very similar to a baby. It cuts across everything.

Conclusion

Shelby and Calvin commit to transforming their financial relationship through transparency, regular

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:00) Do you know the number one thing you need to start a business? It's not a logo, it's not a website. You need one hour on August 19th. Join me live on August 19th where I'm gonna teach you how to start a business in one hour. I'm gonna go through the exact process that I have taught thousands of people who successfully sold services and products. You can reserve your seat right now at iwt.com slash business. And if you've been thinking about starting a business, for months or years, this is the time to do it. Give me one hour. Let me show you exactly how to do it. Join today at iwt.com Speaker 2 (0:37) slash business. Speaker 1 (0:38) You have zero going towards savings, zero for investments. You have debt and a baby. If you literally just continue on this path. you will hit a brick wall. How long have you been in debt? Speaker 2 (0:51) My whole life. I'll Speaker 1 (0:52) get a paycheck, just pay it off, continue the cycle. The two of you make $102,792. What Speaker 2 (0:59) do you think of that number? That's enough to not be in debt. So why are you where you are? Mismanagement, poor decisions. Speaker 3 (1:07) He didn't have as much money as I thought he had because he's trying to pay this loan off secretly without me knowing. Speaker 1 (1:14) Oh. Do you trust each other? Speaker 3 (1:17) No, not fully. We've had a lot of stuff. Speaker 2 (1:21) I haven't prioritized the safety and Speaker 1 (1:25) stability of my family. Guys, it's going to take you a lot to build a healthy relationship with money. You will not walk out of this room without making dramatic changes. Speaker 1 (1:36) Is it too late to take control of your money? I get a lot of questions from people wondering that and wondering how they can catch up because they didn't start in their 20s. Now, this is challenging, especially if you don't make hundreds of thousands of dollars. And that is exactly the scenario that we are going to talk about today. Meet Shelby and Calvin. Calvin is 43. Shelby is 31. And they feel trapped by their financial situation. Shelby applied to speak with me and let's take a look at what she wrote. We are unable to plan efficiently and realistically for the future because we have no savings, Calvin has no retirement, and now we have a baby to support. This sounds like a lot. It honestly sounds overwhelming and having a baby with no savings is terrifying. Let's take a look at the numbers. Assets, $17,500. Investments, $9,000. Savings, $3,500. Remember, they have a baby. And debt, $20,326. Total net worth, $9,674. Fixed costs are at 87%. Right there, that explains how they likely feel about their money. Feeling trapped, feeling overwhelmed. Investments at zero, savings at zero, and guilt-free spending at 13%. There's something important that I need to flag for today's conversation. There's no magic wand that is going to make us be able to go back in time and change their financial situation 20 years ago. Here we are. These are the numbers. It's going to be a tough discussion. So I want you to prepare for that because there are no secret shortcuts to what's about to happen. So to answer the question that I first asked you, is it too late? Of course not. You can always make changes with your money and with your life. But sometimes when you are making jointly $100,000 with very little in savings and a new baby, it's pretty hard. We just have tough decisions that we're going to have to make. Let's take a look at what happens. Let's meet Shelby and Calvin. Shelby, you applied to speak to me, right? Speaker 2 (3:46) Yeah. And Speaker 1 (3:46) I remember that you told one of my producers that you were trying to plan for the future, but you discovered some hidden debt. Can you tell me about that? Speaker 3 (3:55) Yeah. So Calvin let me know. He had taken out a personal loan before, and I was informed that he paid back that money. But I found out six months after or so that that personal loan was not paid off. Oh. Speaker 1 (4:14) How much was the amount that he told you? Speaker 3 (4:16) It was about $5,000. Speaker 1 (4:18) Yeah. Correct? Speaker 3 (4:19) Yeah. Speaker 1 (4:19) And what did you feel when you heard that? Speaker 3 (4:22) I felt a little frustrated. It always sucks to be lied to. But I took it with ease and just started planning how we're going to pay this off. Speaker 1 (4:34) How did you discover that the loan was not paid off? Speaker 3 (4:37) We both got off. leave for our baby. Speaker 1 (4:41) And Speaker 3 (4:42) we were talking about how, like I was confused, where was the money? Like I thought we were better off than we were in the moment. And I come to find out the reason he didn't have as much money as I thought he had at the moment was because he's trying to pay this loan off secretly without me knowing. Speaker 1 (5:05) So once he said that, Your reaction was? Speaker 3 (5:09) To start planning on how to work through it. Speaker 1 (5:12) You didn't say anything like, hey, how did you not tell me that? Speaker 3 (5:16) Well, yeah, I, of course. What'd you say? It's hard to remember exactly. She was Speaker 2 (5:20) upset. She just, just let me know that. Speaker 2 (5:25) To not like keep those kind of things from her in the future It's better that you know, it's out in the open so we can take care of it. And yeah, and Speaker 1 (5:35) looking Speaker 2 (5:35) back Why did you keep that debt a secret? Speaker 3 (5:39) Um Speaker 2 (5:41) Probably embarrassment mostly I initially took out the loan to purchase a ring for her and then We kind of had some difficulties picking one out and finding, you know, the right one. And I was supposed to just take all the money back, but I ended up paying off some other debts from my previous Speaker 1 (6:12) marriage. Okay, got it. So you have a baby you mentioned. How old is the baby? Speaker 3 (6:16) Eight and a half months. Eight and a half Speaker 1 (6:17) months. Congratulations. Thank you. Speaker 3 (6:19) And Speaker 1 (6:19) are you two married or no? Speaker 3 (6:21) No. Speaker 1 (6:22) No. Okay. And how long have you known each other? It'll be two years, November. Speaker 2 (6:27) So like a Speaker 1 (6:29) year and a half or so. Yeah. Okay. All Speaker 2 (6:31) right. Speaker 1 (6:33) Where are you with your finances today? Probably like a Speaker 2 (6:37) layoff or a firing away from needing welfare or help. Wow. Speaker 3 (6:42) We live very separately financially as often as like... I tried to bring it together, which, you know, I've tried like Sunday finance meetings and things like that. I don't know how much money he has at any given time. He doesn't really know how much I have. We just understand that we're paying off, you know, we're paying our bills. Speaker 1 (7:06) So how would you describe that? Like, how does that feel? Speaker 3 (7:09) I feel like I'm in the dark a lot of the time because he is the primary, you know. moneymaker in our relationship. I put my trust in him that he's paying. The bills that he pays and I pay the ones that I pay. If Speaker 1 (7:25) you had to describe your relationship with money, with the two of you, in a word or two, what would you say? Uncomfortable. Speaker 3 (7:33) I agree. Speaker 1 (7:34) Okay. What is the role that each of you plays in this relationship with money? Speaker 3 (7:39) I'm the planner, the instigator of like financial conversations. Speaker 1 (7:46) I Speaker 3 (7:46) like to learn about money. That's... You know, that's something I'm always been into and I like to bring it up maybe too often. Ah, Speaker 1 (7:56) how awesome. Speaker 3 (7:59) Multiple times a week, probably. Got Speaker 1 (8:01) it. Okay. How about you, Calvin? Speaker 2 (8:04) I would rather just send her my paycheck and not have to deal with it and not have to talk about it and just get it done. Speaker 1 (8:12) Do Speaker 2 (8:13) you do that? Not yet. Speaker 1 (8:15) Why don't you do it? Speaker 2 (8:17) I don't know. I've been trying to kind of get caught up on personal, like, Credit card stuff. Speaker 1 (8:29) Try to do it on your own? Yeah. Yeah. In my own relationship, when we first met, I was an optimizer. Like Speaker 2 (8:37) I have Speaker 1 (8:37) freaking spreadsheets and like, okay, let's talk about our compound interest, which I still do. I love it. What I realized would have been more helpful for me would not be to create yet another spreadsheet or calculation. but actually to connect with my wife, to hear what she's saying, and to be able to create a culture where we can speak in a way that we hear each other. You know, that's what I needed to do in my next role. What would it be for you? What role would you have? for the next chapter of your lives together? Speaker 2 (9:12) I would like it to be for her to just kind of take the reins on that and kind Speaker 1 (9:17) of be looped in. And what would your role be? Provider. Provider means you make money. Yeah. And then hand it over to her. Yeah. Okay. Shelby? I Speaker 3 (9:30) want it to be a partnership. So I don't want to be the only one doing the work with the money. afterwards like I want him to also educate himself on how to how to deal with it rather than me be like the leader. Speaker 1 (9:47) What do you think? Is it are you two compatible? I'm Speaker 2 (9:49) okay with her leading in the finance because that's her area of strength. If I could just be there to come alongside her and like Be looped in to make decisions I'm poor with money. So like I feel like that would just be a better situation altogether just to Not have my hand in it at all What did she just say though? I heard what she said she would like it to be a partnership but I feel like in that way it is like in a in a group there's people with strengths and there's people with weaknesses if let's say we're writing a paper of your strength is punctuation and you know, sentence structure, then you would be the person writing, right? So. Speaker 1 (10:36) What would the other person be doing? Speaker 2 (10:38) Maybe research. Maybe, I don't know, you know, gathering information for the person to write. Speaker 1 (10:45) I take your example. Speaker 2 (10:46) What's the chore Speaker 1 (10:47) that one of you does? Speaker 3 (10:49) You take out the trash mostly. Speaker 1 (10:51) Taking out the trash, I can understand. But it would be a little weird if it was one person solely doing baby stuff. Right? It's just not really appropriate these days. We're both involved. We both want to be involved. Money is very similar to a baby. It cuts across everything. It's where you live. It's what you eat. It's what you're able to do. It's how much safety you have, your roof. So I will gently challenge you that your vision of where you would like to be, right off the bat, that's going to be really tough. I don't see any couples who are good with money. where one person goes, here you go, you deal with it. How does that strike you? Speaker 2 (11:31) Yeah, I understand Speaker 1 (11:33) it. Okay. Would you be open to participating with the money? Speaker 2 (11:36) Yes. Speaker 1 (11:37) That was tough. That was like a, whoa, big breath. Speaker 2 (11:41) What was that? Like I said, I'm not good with money. Like- Were you good with a baby before you had a baby? Yeah. I'm the oldest of 12. So I've been raising kids since I was a kid. Whoa. Were Speaker 1 (11:53) you good? back Speaker 2 (11:54) then with Speaker 1 (11:54) a little sibling? I don't know. Probably not. I mean, they didn't die, so. In that way, you were great. Like the first time you meet a baby, certainly the first time you have a baby. you're not automatically good, right? It's a skill. Same thing with money. I'm trying to demystify money because I know that for some people, like they're really good at sports. For some people, they understand nutrition. And we kind of get that. We're like, okay, like you're really good at sports. But what we don't realize is, oh, there was a lot that went into that. They've been running since they were a little kid. They played with their parents, all that stuff. Money's a skill just like anything else. And it might feel like, You used an interesting word earlier. You said, I'm poor with money. Yeah. I want to hear more about that. But obviously there's some things you have gone through with money, which we'll talk about. But it's a skill like anything else. And so the important thing is that we all agree you two want to be partners. Because if you want to be good with money, you've both got to be in it. Okay, here are the clues that I'm noticing already. Shelby wants more transparency. She wants more access. She's trying to convince her partner, please participate in the finances. Calvin says he wants to be a provider. He also says he would like to not really have to think about money at all. In fact, he'd rather just give the money to her to manage. And yet he hasn't done that. So there's something going on here. Let's see if I can find out more. Do you trust each other? Yeah, I trust her. Okay. Shelby? Speaker 3 (13:32) No, not fully. Speaker 1 (13:33) Okay. Is that because of the secret debt? Speaker 3 (13:36) That didn't help. I mean, it's a little lie that builds into, you Speaker 2 (13:41) know, breaking trust. Okay. I Speaker 1 (13:44) appreciate the honesty. It's like, we're here, we might as well just be honest with each other. And then we can try to figure out what we can do about the situation. What would it look like to be able to trust Calvin? Speaker 1 (13:57) Take your time. Sorry. No need to apologize. Speaker 3 (14:02) Thanks. Speaker 1 (14:03) Take your time. I don't Speaker 3 (14:04) really know. Speaker 2 (14:07) What's going through Speaker 1 (14:08) your Speaker 2 (14:08) head right Speaker 1 (14:08) now? Speaker 3 (14:09) We've had a lot of stuff. Speaker 2 (14:11) I recently broke trust in our relationship. I was having, as you can say, emotional relationships with women and was not honest about things. So that has caused a lot of Speaker 1 (14:32) mistrust. Speaker 2 (14:34) Got Speaker 1 (14:35) it. Shelby? Speaker 3 (14:37) Yeah. Speaker 1 (14:38) Is that accurate? Speaker 3 (14:39) For the most part, yes. Speaker 1 (14:40) Okay. Speaker 3 (14:40) Have Speaker 1 (14:41) you all spoken to a therapist? We are in the works. Actively. Good. We're in the works. And where are you in your relationship? Speaker 3 (14:51) We're together working through it. We don't know where we're going to end up, but we're trying to end up together. Speaker 1 (15:01) Got it. Okay. Thank you for being honest. Speaker 1 (15:05) That really helps me understand the background of what's going on here. I'm not a couples therapist. I'm glad you are seeing one. That's awesome. The thing that I can help with is money. So although all of this is tied together, obviously, you're here to talk about money. So in light of what you have just shared, is it okay if we focus on the money part? Yeah. Speaker 2 (15:30) Okay. Speaker 1 (15:32) Look at Calvin's body language. A lot of deep breaths, a lot of low energy. It's telling me that he's not comfortable with money. And while he has shown up here, which I appreciate, I get the sense that he does not like talking about money at all. That has implications for how they manage money together as a couple. If you hate money or you hate talking about money, point blank, you're never going to get good at it. How can you get good at something that you hate? So part of what I try to do with couples is make them realize, hey, money isn't something that's just a bunch of confusing numbers. It's actually your ability to go out and order an amazing meal or put your kids in math tutoring class or be able to travel. Money is not just numbers. Money is your life, the one that you choose to create. I'm really curious to see what their numbers say. I'm going to dig into those right after this. Speaker 2 (16:28) One Speaker 1 (16:29) of my friends recently had to call her phone provider to ask a simple question about her account. It took her over 30 minutes to finally get connected to someone. Answering the question only took like 45 seconds. If you run a business, do not do this to your customers. 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See how 11 agents can fit into your workflows and help build experiences that your customers will actually love. 11labs.io slash Ramit. That's E-L-E-V-E-N. l-a-b-s dot i-o slash Ramit. If you want to know what a person's values really are, just look at their calendar. It will tell you so much. Like on this show, a lot of guests say they want to spend more time with their family. But when I ask if they schedule the time in, they're like, huh? If you care about something, it's not enough to just want to do it. You have to be intentional about it. Coordinating schedules with a family can be challenging. That is why families love Skylight Calendar. Skylight Calendar is designed to bring families together for more time. It's an all-in-one digital smart calendar that syncs with Google Calendar, Apple Calendar, Outlook, etc., making it easier to instantly look at your day, week, or month plans. With Skylight Calendar, you can manage events, chores, and grocery lists by assigning colors for each of your family members, meaning no one can say they didn't know what they needed to do. My coworkers say it's a game changer for their families. Plus, it comes with a four-month, 100 % happiness guarantee. If you don't love it after four months, you can return it for a full refund, no questions asked. Families are better when they're working together. Right now, Skylight is offering our listeners $30 off their 15-inch calendars by going to myskylight.com slash Ramit. Go to myskylight.com slash Ramit for $30 off your 15-inch calendar. That's M-Y-S-K-Y-L-I-G-H-T.com slash Ramit. Do you know the number one thing you need to start a business? It's not a logo. It's not a website. You need one hour on August 19th. Join me live on August 19th where I'm going to teach you how to start a business in one hour. I'm going to go through the exact process that I have taught thousands of people. who successfully sold services and products. You can reserve your seat right now at iwt.com slash business. And if you've been thinking about starting a business for months or years, this is the time to do it. Give me one hour, let me show you exactly how to do it. Join today at iwt.com slash business. So you wanna be more productive. Well, all you need is yet another productivity app, right? I think that we've all gone through this cycle where we find this amazing app and then a few days later, we stop using it. But what if the real problem was the tool, not you? That is the question that mathematician Spencer Greenberg and clinical psychologist Jeremy Stevenson set out to answer in our latest Rich Life session. 106 self-help books, 495 techniques, and 12 that matter. On this call, which we are hosting for you, They're cutting through the noise and they're going to share a simple map of what actually drives real change. So you can learn why some of your old productivity systems didn't work and build a new one that actually will. You can save your seat to join the call on August 20th at iwt.com slash events. What was it like putting this conscious spending Speaker 2 (20:54) plan together? It was a struggle for me. Yeah? Yeah. Because again, that uncomfortable feeling with money. What was it like Speaker 1 (21:02) for you, Shelby? Speaker 3 (21:03) I loved it. Oh, Speaker 1 (21:04) were you the one driving it? Speaker 3 (21:06) Of course. Speaker 1 (21:07) Okay. Who typed it in? Me. You typed it in, but you were asking him for his numbers. Speaker 3 (21:11) And Speaker 1 (21:11) what was the energy like that first time? Speaker 3 (21:14) I was excited. He was not. Speaker 1 (21:17) Miserable. Miserable. He didn't want to be there. Kind of like grumpy. Hands crossed, that kind of thing. I just, Speaker 2 (21:22) I was, Speaker 1 (21:23) yeah, I was just like, Speaker 2 (21:24) I just didn't, I didn't want to do it. Okay. Speaker 1 (21:28) Y'all match energy on anything? Speaker 3 (21:30) No, not usually. Ah, Speaker 1 (21:32) so this is the dynamic. So we have Shelby who's kind of excited. Speaker 3 (21:36) And Speaker 1 (21:37) then Calvin, your energy is? It depends on what it is. If it's fishing, we're both excited. Okay, Speaker 2 (21:43) nice. But if it's, you know, going over money. It's she's excited and I'm, you know, dragging my feet. Got it. Yeah. Speaker 1 (21:54) Okay. That's interesting. Let's take a look at the numbers. Shelby, will you read off the word in bold and then the number next to it for this entire box, please? Speaker 3 (22:04) Assets, $17,500. Investments, $9,000. Savings, $3,500. Debt, $20,326. Total net worth, $9,674. Okay. Speaker 1 (22:21) What do you make of these numbers? It's rough. I mean, it's Speaker 3 (22:26) not great, but we're in the positive and I'm going to be positive about that. Speaker 1 (22:31) Okay. Are you always optimistic? Speaker 3 (22:34) I feel like I balance out whoever, you know, I'm working with, whether it be friends or a partner. So I'm going to be... positive about it because I've seen his face when I tell him the number and it's not usually super happy. So. And Speaker 1 (22:51) do you ever feel it's okay for you to not be positive? Speaker 3 (22:55) Yeah. Yeah. I have plenty of times, you know, I'm not super positive, but, uh, I try to keep it, you Speaker 1 (23:04) know, Speaker 3 (23:04) as light as I can. Speaker 1 (23:06) Okay. And Calvin, what do you make of these numbers? Um, Speaker 1 (23:11) They're scary. What Speaker 2 (23:13) part? Savings and... The amount of debt. Speaker 1 (23:18) The $20,326. What type of debt is that? Speaker 3 (23:23) That's my car loan and some credit card debt. Speaker 1 (23:29) And the other? Speaker 3 (23:30) Oh, and the loans. Speaker 2 (23:32) Two Speaker 1 (23:32) loans. $5,000 for the first loan? Yeah. And then? Speaker 3 (23:36) What Speaker 1 (23:36) was it? Speaker 3 (23:38) $1,500 left on the ring. Speaker 2 (23:41) The ring we ended up going with. How much was the ring? Speaker 3 (23:45) $2,800. Speaker 2 (23:47) And Speaker 1 (23:47) how much credit card debt? Speaker 3 (23:49) I have like $200 and some odd dollars right now. Speaker 2 (23:51) Right now I'm probably at about $600. $600. What's the debt for? Honestly, living. I took a new job and the earning potential is more at this new job, but it's not immediate. And my previous job, there was more money. like upfront. So things were a little bit easier. So now it's like pay bills and then kind of living off of the credit cards until it's time to do it again. Speaker 1 (24:23) How long has that been going on? Speaker 2 (24:26) About three Speaker 1 (24:27) months. Who's the one who charges the credit card? Speaker 3 (24:32) The 600 is his credit cards. We're separate. I usually pay off my credit cards by the end of the month. How long Speaker 1 (24:40) have you been in debt? Speaker 1 (24:42) My whole life. I can see the way you talk about it. You talk about it like it's a mosquito bite. It's a minor nuisance. If I were in credit card debt. I would talk about it like I am drowning underwater. Is there a future where you change your behavior so that you're not in debt? I hope so. That's why I'm here. Good. Great answer. Okay. Let's go to the income. Calvin, can you read off your combined gross monthly income? $85.66. Yeah. $8,566, which means that together, if we just combine for a second, The two of you make $102,792. Did you know that? Speaker 3 (25:27) We were in the ballpark. How much Speaker 1 (25:30) did you think? Speaker 3 (25:31) Well, it used to be like $105,000 to $110,000. Okay. But with the new job. Speaker 1 (25:36) It's less, but it could be more. Yes. Okay. What do you think of that number? Speaker 2 (25:40) It Speaker 3 (25:40) could be better. Speaker 2 (25:42) What do you think, Calvin? I think with that number, we shouldn't be where we are. Oh. Tell me more. I feel like that's enough to not be in debt. Speaker 1 (25:56) So Speaker 2 (25:56) why are you where you are? Mismanagement. Poor decisions. Okay. I like this. Which decisions? Mostly me. I don't have that sense of urgency when it comes to the debt. It's like, I don't know, I guess I feel like, you know, I'll get a paycheck. Just pay it off. Kind of continue the Speaker 1 (26:19) cycle. Speaker 2 (26:20) How Speaker 1 (26:20) many people? that you know in your life are in debt. Speaker 1 (26:26) Everybody. Yeah. So it's just part of life. It sucks, but it's just part of life. Yeah. Okay. For the breakdown on the income, I want to highlight a couple of things here. We have one person, I think this is Calvin, who makes $6,100 a month. Yeah. And then we have Shelby who makes $2,400 a month. Shelby, what do you do for a living? Speaker 3 (26:46) Right now I'm working part-time as like a bartender customer service at a bowling alley. Speaker 1 (26:51) Okay. And are you in school as well? I... Speaker 3 (26:53) I am. It's changed right now, but I'm going back in the fall. Speaker 1 (26:56) And how long will it take you to get your degree? Speaker 3 (27:00) Two to three years. Speaker 1 (27:01) Okay. Let's say three. I don't like ranges. I always like to pick the conservative number. So three years. I saw somewhere in your CSP, you have some school costs. Is that for you? Yeah. Okay. So three years of that. And then will you be able to increase your earnings? Yes. How much? Speaker 3 (27:18) Drastically. Yeah? Speaker 1 (27:19) Probably. Speaker 3 (27:20) Yeah. What Speaker 1 (27:20) do you think? Like how much would you make annually? Speaker 3 (27:23) I can make at least like 65 to 70K. No Speaker 1 (27:26) kidding. Yeah. That's a big deal. Speaker 3 (27:29) Okay. Speaker 1 (27:30) Good to know. Calvin, you're at 6,100 a month gross. Yeah. Something about a bonus? Speaker 2 (27:36) Yeah. So right now I'm trending at my job towards a decent bonus. How much? I just started the job and right now I'm like five for six on sales. So it'll be probably around like $1,500 for Speaker 3 (27:52) that quarter. So probably like... Speaker 2 (27:54) $6,000 a year? Speaker 3 (27:55) Yeah, yeah. Speaker 2 (27:56) Ballpark? Speaker 1 (27:57) Yeah. Okay. Speaker 2 (27:58) What do you do for a living? I'm a project manager for a restoration company. Speaker 1 (28:02) Okay. Speaker 2 (28:02) Have Speaker 1 (28:03) you all talked about this number before? How much would this potential commission end up being at the end of the year? Yes, we talked about it. And you feel confident? you can get 5K in bonus. Yes. Great. Now we're cooking. All right. Let's go down to the rest of the numbers. Fixed costs. What's that number? Speaker 3 (28:22) 87%. What Speaker 1 (28:22) does that tell you? Speaker 3 (28:23) That we're not doing great. Yeah. Speaker 1 (28:26) You're drowning. Speaker 3 (28:26) Yeah. Speaker 1 (28:27) This number right here explains your anxiety with money because you're the one who manages the money, correct? Speaker 2 (28:34) No. For the most part. Speaker 1 (28:35) Wow. Interesting answer. One person says no. The other says for the most part. This kind of explains part of the problem, right? Yeah. What do you all think? Speaker 3 (28:45) I don't manage the money. If I managed the money, I feel like it would be different. Speaker 1 (28:51) Oh, okay. And Speaker 3 (28:52) I know that's terrible to say, but that's how I feel. Why Speaker 2 (28:55) is it terrible? It's the truth. Speaker 3 (28:57) Because it's nothing, I don't want to down him. No, it's Speaker 2 (29:01) not downing me at all. It's the truth. If you were like, yeah, Speaker 1 (29:05) it Speaker 2 (29:05) would be Speaker 1 (29:05) different. Let me say it a different way. This is how I might say it. I might say, right now it feels really confusing because we both... kind of do something with the money, but it's not really clear who owns what. And if I were just in charge of it, I could probably at least have control over everything. I could make sure that the numbers fit. It feels a little frustrating that he won't go along with that. But what I really want is for both of us to be involved together. Did I capture that accurately? Yeah. Okay. Have you ever said something like that to him? Speaker 3 (29:42) I've told him I want us to be partners and by him just giving over a paycheck to me, it doesn't feel like it's Speaker 1 (29:50) a Speaker 3 (29:50) partnership. Speaker 1 (29:51) Agreed. What do you think about that? Speaker 2 (29:53) I don't necessarily agree. I don't want to not know about anything, but I just feel like in that area, like she's better at Speaker 1 (30:03) it. When you think about money right now, what do you feel about it? I don't know. It gives me anxiety. I Speaker 2 (30:09) didn't grow up with money. I didn't have, you know, much as a kid. I