276. "I resent carrying our finances. Can we fix this?"

Money For Couples with Ramit Sethi

A married couple, Lauren and Robert, confront deep-seated resentment over unequal financial responsibilities despite having a strong net worth. Lauren

Key takeaways

• Resentment often stems from unequal emotional labor and perception of fairness, not just income differences.
• Financial stress can escalate to threats of divorce even when numbers suggest stability.

Main topics

• Financial resentment in marriage
• Unequal workload distribution

Notable quotes

"I feel like I've been carrying the weight for a long time." – Lauren

"We were going to put a pool in. He was like, we're not putting a pool in." – Lauren

Conclusion

Lauren and Robert begin healing their financial relationship by acknowledging emotional

Transcript preview

Speaker 3 (0:00) One of my early accomplishments with money was being able to invest consistently enough to have $100,000 in my portfolio. Once that happened, the money started really compounding and I could see it. I could even feel it. Now, I want you to get to the point where you have invested $100,000 of money and you can watch that thing really start to snowball. I built a program to help you do exactly that. It's called The Road to 100K. It helps you know exactly when you will have 100K invested. It helps you accelerate that timeline and it shows you step-by-step what to do starting today. You can join us at iwt.com slash 100K. Are you both a team? Speaker 1 (0:44) I feel like I've been carrying the weight for a long time. You Speaker 3 (0:47) said resentment has been building for years. We've talked about divorce. That's like as serious as it gets. Speaker 1 (0:53) I'm out there busting my ass. I was working like 60 hours a week, three jobs, and he wasn't working at all. Speaker 2 (0:59) I retired, so I was like, okay, I can be retired and not have to work again. When did that resentment start? Speaker 1 (1:05) We were going to put a pool in. He was like, we're not putting a pool in. Speaker 2 (1:08) How much did the pool cost? Speaker 1 (1:10) $150,000. Speaker 2 (1:11) She said, I grew up with a pool. I want my kids to grow up with a pool. She'll say, oh, you just don't want our kids to have fun. I'm not the villain all the time. Speaker 1 (1:17) Let's also add that he went to Disney the week before by himself. Hold on. Speaker 3 (1:20) What is this? What's happening right now? Like, we're talking about you, and you're jabbing him about Disney. Speaker 1 (1:25) Yeah. Speaker 2 (1:25) It's scary that we have your inheritance and a 401k, and that's basically our retirement. He's Speaker 1 (1:31) worried about investments, but he doesn't invest. It's just me. Speaker 3 (1:35) Until you two work through this. None of the rest of it matters. I Speaker 1 (1:38) certainly like never want to get divorced, but I need some big changes in order to continue. Speaker 3 (1:46) Listen to this line from Lauren's application. Quote, resentment has built up as I manage the household finances, family schedule, and work 55 plus hours per week, and Rob, her husband, works minimally. He has lots of free time. She goes on to say that the only way she sees to fix this is for Rob to make more money. It's kind of a lot of resentment that's very evident through her words. She further writes, I've gotten extremely frustrated this past year and mentioned divorce. I need major changes. As you can see, the stakes are extremely high. But I will tell you that the income gap is not actually the real problem here. I noticed that there's a story they've been telling themselves about what that gap means. We're going to get into all of this in detail, but let's take a look at their numbers through their Conscious Spending Plan, or CSP. Assets, $474,000. Investments, $257,000. Savings, $24,000. And debt, about $70,000. Total net worth, $685,000. Wow, their net monthly income is $17,000 or $204,000 in net income. That's a lot of money. Fixed costs are at 81%, which is very high for that income. Investments at zero, savings also at zero. Guilt-free spending, not even on the CSP, huh? It's not even here. You had to affirmatively go and erase it for it not to be on here. So I'm gonna find out what happened there. I have a lot of questions for them, but first I wanna take a moment to shout out this episode's sponsor, Delete Me. Delete Me is a service that I personally use and I love it. In fact, I use it for my own personal privacy protection as well as for my parents. If your information is online, you can go on Google and search for your name and your city. You're going to find a crazy amount of information that is public. Your address, phone number, your siblings' names, all of it. Delete.me does an amazing job of going out to those data broker sites and getting them systematically removed one by one so you don't have to. Go to joindeleteme.com slash Ramit and use code Ramit for 20 % off a plan for you and your family. Delete.me, a great sponsor of this podcast. Now, let's get started with Lauren and Rob. Speaker 2 (4:05) Have Speaker 3 (4:05) the two of you seen this application? Speaker 2 (4:07) No. I don't Speaker 1 (4:07) know if you have. Speaker 2 (4:08) I came home one day and she said, guess what I did? And I said, what did you do this time? I Speaker 1 (4:13) don't think so. And I was like hoping he'd be open to it. And he was. Okay. Speaker 3 (4:17) All Speaker 1 (4:17) right. Speaker 3 (4:18) Let me read the application because, Lauren, you said resentment has been building for years. And you have mentioned divorce. That's like as serious as it gets. When did you fill that application out? Speaker 1 (4:32) Geez, a few months ago. I guess it wasn't that long ago. Speaker 2 (4:35) Rob, did you know that she had mentioned resentment and divorce? When we did the interview, it came up. And I kind of made the comment, like, I didn't think the big D was on the table with it. But, you know, that's only my half of the story, obviously. And then that kind of hit home because Lauren is wife number three. So I've already been divorced twice. So I didn't want to do that again. The other two marriages, I didn't have kids or family. So, you know, it was kind of an easier break. And this is, you know, this is my forever home, I guess. I think that kind of. resonated with me like, okay, let's just work a few hours a day, make some money. Do Speaker 3 (5:20) you remember the first time you talked about money? Like seriously talked about money? Speaker 1 (5:25) I mean, kind of soon because we decided to build a house together after we were dating for six months. Speaker 3 (5:32) Okay. How'd that happen? What was that conversation like? Speaker 1 (5:35) It was in my name and it was, you know, pretty much with like my... like some inheritance money. But we needed more room. Speaker 2 (5:45) Well, we were in a two-bedroom condo. With Speaker 1 (5:47) the dog and baby. With a Speaker 2 (5:48) dog and my friend that retired with me because he needed some help transition. He needed a place to crash. So Speaker 1 (5:53) it was just like tight. Speaker 2 (5:54) Tell me about this inheritance. Speaker 1 (5:56) Yeah. So unfortunately, both my parents passed away. My mom in 2014, she had cancer. And then my dad in 2016, and it was like very unexpected. I'm sorry. So. You know, that was tough. Rob met my dad once. You know, obviously like my inheritance led us to be able to kind of build the life that we have and, you know, build a house. And so that's a big piece of what I came into the marriage with. Do Speaker 3 (6:27) you mind if I ask a few questions about the financial parts of that? Okay. How much was the inheritance? Speaker 1 (6:33) $700,000. Okay. Speaker 3 (6:34) Did you expect it? Speaker 1 (6:36) No, I think especially with my dad. I mean, my mom was sick. And so I figured maybe we would get some money, but like she had, she didn't make a ton of money. So I didn't expect like a lot. And then my dad, it was just so unexpected that definitely was not expecting that. I mean, I was like, wow, there's a lot we can do with this. I think that's when we decided to build the house. And Speaker 3 (6:59) at this point, the two of you were dating. Speaker 1 (7:00) Dating. Speaker 3 (7:01) Okay. I Speaker 1 (7:01) think we were feeling pretty committed to each other. I mean, he did propose within a year of us, you know, dating. He was, I think you were at a point where you wanted to like have a family and kind of had this built-in family. Speaker 3 (7:15) How long have you two been married? Speaker 1 (7:17) Eight years this year. Okay. How Speaker 3 (7:19) old are the children? Speaker 1 (7:20) Two, five, and ten. Speaker 3 (7:22) Okay. And are the children all from this marriage? Speaker 1 (7:25) No, my oldest is from a prior relationship. Got Speaker 3 (7:28) it. Okay. How did you know how much house you could afford? Speaker 1 (7:31) Probably just looking at like the monthly mortgage we could afford. I was working as a nurse. I wasn't a nurse practitioner yet. We Speaker 2 (7:38) actually downsized from what we originally wanted because we actually said we can't afford the house we want. So we'll just... rearrange it because it wasn't, it was basically whatever we wanted, he was going to build, you know, he gave us set plans and we picked one and there was some customization. Speaker 1 (7:57) Yeah. So we were like in a pretty good spot with being able to afford the house that we did build. Okay. Speaker 2 (8:02) So you built a house. We Speaker 1 (8:03) built that house. We put a nice, beautiful pool in. Now Speaker 3 (8:08) I understand that you were the victims of a scam. Speaker 1 (8:10) Oh my God. Speaker 3 (8:11) In the relationship. Can you tell me about this? It has to do with the pool. Yeah, it does. Speaker 1 (8:16) So when we built that house, by the time the house was ready, we had been dating like a year and three months. And there was this guy working for the like excavating crew that went and preyed on multiple people on this street. And kind of like came up to us trying to like sell us the idea of this like beautiful backyard dream. We're like, yeah. And we were like naive, kind of first time homebuyers. And he like dug a hole and we gave him like half the money. And he ran off with about $40,000. Speaker 3 (8:53) Gone? Gone. What'd you do? Speaker 1 (8:57) We tried to like go to the police and pursue, you know, something. And they basically said it's like- He started Speaker 2 (9:03) the work. Who says he won't come back and finish it? Speaker 1 (9:06) It's a civil matter. We can't do anything about it. And then like- I would look him up and I'd see things like I saw a news thing that he, you know, screwed this lady over by like, you know, selling her a car for $10,000 and then not giving to her. And I was like, wait a minute, he took 40 grand from us. And maybe we were just stupid in giving it to him because we just were like sold up on the dream or whatever. But I mean, I guess a lot of people on our street went through very similar things. So this guy was like a professional con artist. Speaker 1 (9:38) That was like devastating. I mean, that was, you know, part of my inheritance money. That was like. That Speaker 3 (9:45) money came from the inheritance. Speaker 1 (9:46) Yeah. Speaker 3 (9:47) Wow. What did that feel like? Speaker 1 (9:49) I just felt like an idiot. I mean, I lost a lot of sleep over it. You know, it was like eventually we had to just kind of move forward from it because after we talked to the police and they said they couldn't do anything. Speaker 2 (10:02) Yeah, they couldn't even locate him. He went back to Connecticut. What did the neighbors do? Same. Speaker 1 (10:08) I don't think they got much recourse either. Did Speaker 3 (10:11) anybody talk to each other? Speaker 1 (10:12) We did. We went up and talked to a few different ones. Yeah. Some of their jobs were like smaller. Speaker 3 (10:17) Yeah. Speaker 1 (10:18) And he might have done it, but like did a crappy job. Speaker 3 (10:21) He Speaker 1 (10:21) built a basketball court for one house and the court was like this. It was like slanted. Speaker 3 (10:26) I mean, it's pretty crazy. What happened with the pool is a violation. They just bought a house. Suddenly all these people come out of the woodwork trying to extract money from them. A lot of times things like this happen whenever you make a major purchase or Speaker 2 (10:37) you Speaker 3 (10:38) buy a house or you have children. Your name gets put on many, many lists and suddenly your private information is getting shared everywhere. Now, there is one thing you can do about it. That is why I love this episode's sponsor, Delete Me. for my personal privacy and for my family's privacy. Something that I encourage you to use because for a very reasonable price, you can have Delete Me out there scouring the internet, removing your personal information. In fact, you'll get 20 % off all consumer plans when you go to joindeleteme.com slash Ramit and you use promo code Ramit at checkout. Now, handing over $40,000 to this scammer says something about how Lauren and Rob make decisions about money. Listen in as we discover some other impulsive spending habits. Speaker 2 (11:25) Is that the house you live in today? No. Oh, what's that reaction? Speaker 3 (11:30) What happened? I Speaker 1 (11:31) had some impulsive things along the way. So I think we built it so fast that we realized, or I realized, like I didn't really like living out in the sticks where we had built it. And so I was kind of itching to move and found a house that was like a flip. Completely different, not a new construction. But also we wanted to have more kids and like kind of wanted more space. And so it was a little crazy. What Speaker 3 (11:59) part of it was crazy? Speaker 1 (12:00) Just like we built a house and then two years later, I'm like, oh, let's move, you know? And he was like, no way. And then I went and looked at a house. Speaker 3 (12:09) How do you make that decision? Because one of you is like, I want out. And Rob, you're saying no. How did you make that decision together? Speaker 1 (12:18) There was a sauna. That's what sold him on the new house. Speaker 3 (12:21) Oh, you convinced him. Hey, if we go to this house, there'll be a sauna there. Speaker 1 (12:25) There was one at the house I found. Right. And at the Speaker 2 (12:27) time, we were both commuting 30, 40 minutes to work. And she was like, this is insane. Speaker 1 (12:32) And kind of like where we want to start the kids in school. I was like, I don't think I want to be in this town. Can Speaker 3 (12:39) I just ask the question, like, how did you not think of this before you built the house? Because we Speaker 1 (12:43) built it so fast. I don't think we really thought. hard enough about where we wanted to live. Speaker 3 (12:49) Is this a common thing when it comes to your money? Not thinking ahead? Speaker 1 (12:52) Yes. Speaker 3 (12:53) Rob, you agree? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Speaker 2 (12:56) More so on that side. Speaker 1 (12:58) More Speaker 3 (12:59) so on whose side? On her side. Okay. So Lauren, you're saying you don't really think ahead. Speaker 1 (13:04) I can be a little impulsive. Speaker 2 (13:06) Right. There's times where she'll like overanalyze like, okay, maybe we shouldn't do this and that. And other times it's, I come home and there's something new and shiny. What are some other examples of new and shiny things that you impulsively have? Well, the newest one is a bounce house, which isn't... Like a full-size kids jump in the... Commercial grade bounce house. Wait a minute. How much does that cost? I've never... I don't even know. He Speaker 1 (13:29) doesn't even know. Yeah. Oh, Speaker 3 (13:30) let's reveal it today for the first time. So Speaker 1 (13:33) I know. I was like, did I really just do this before we go on the podcast? How much? So it was $3,200. Speaker 2 (13:39) Okay. I thought way less than that, but that's okay. And how did you pay for that? Speaker 1 (13:44) I picked up a weekend of call, extra call, booking, and it was great. I didn't even get any calls, and I pretty much paid for it. Speaker 3 (13:53) Got it. And is this a common thing where, you know, I want to buy this big thing, I'll pick up an extra shift or two? Speaker 1 (13:58) Yes. Yeah. Speaker 3 (13:59) Okay. And Rob, what is your reaction? You know, you come home and you see a bounce house. Well, I didn't even, I just Speaker 2 (14:04) was told, hey, you have to be home. There's a bounce house being delivered. And I said, oh, we rented a bounce house? And she said, no, we bought one. What's your reaction to that? I kind of hated it. Did you say that? I did. I said, can we return it? And she said, no, the kids are going to love it. So I Speaker 1 (14:23) said, Speaker 2 (14:24) again, can we return it? Speaker 2 (14:27) I saw her like escalate her answer of no, it's paid for. I just said, okay. Got it. Speaker 3 (14:35) What do you think this dynamic is around the bounce house? What role did each of you play in this? Lauren? Just Speaker 1 (14:42) buying it. Speaker 3 (14:43) Okay, so you just bought it. All right. And then what was your role, Rob? Speaker 2 (14:47) Just... dealing with it. Like, okay, that's the way it is. I guess we have a bounce house. Let me figure out where I'm going to store it now. Got it. Speaker 1 (14:56) I like seeing my kids outside having fun off screens. Like, they have this amazing life. Yeah. Speaker 2 (15:05) And Speaker 1 (15:06) I worked hard for it. And I continue to work hard for it. Speaker 2 (15:10) Some of the issues is in... Well, she'll be like, it's my money or I earned it, so I want to spend it the way I want to. Is that true? Speaker 1 (15:19) Yeah. Speaker 3 (15:20) Okay. And is that working for your finances? Speaker 1 (15:25) No. Speaker 3 (15:26) All right. Speaker 1 (15:26) Because I work so hard. I work a lot. And I think I get... like resentful or annoyed when he does say no to things because I'm like, well, I'm the one making the money. I'm the one paying the mortgage. Speaker 2 (15:42) Like, Speaker 1 (15:42) I don't like to say no when I want something, but also I feel like I prioritize what I spend my money on. Like, I don't have like designer clothes and bags and all that kind of stuff. Like, I really like to spend money on my kids mostly. Speaker 3 (15:55) So what do you do? Speaker 1 (15:56) I'm like afraid to ask him or tell him about like. Ask him about purchases because I know he'll say no. Speaker 3 (16:02) Well, Speaker 2 (16:02) he did say no. Speaker 1 (16:03) Yeah, afterwards. Speaker 3 (16:05) I'm picking up a lot of clues right away in this conversation. Lauren makes the money and therefore makes the rules about money. Rob says no, but gets overruled. I suspect they're trapped in a particular dynamic of the parent-child dynamic, which kind of looks harmless, sometimes even funny, like with their bounce house. But this exact pattern often builds resentment. on both sides over the years. The one in the parent role gets exhausted carrying everything alone. It's also not attractive to be the parent to someone who's supposed to be your intimate partner. The one in the child role feels like their voice doesn't actually matter. And it's clear that they both are carrying a lot of resentment in this conversation. You can see it in the little jabs they keep throwing at each other. We're gonna dig into that resentment right after this. One of the most helpful things that I've started using in the last year or so is meeting notes that automatically tell me what the next action steps are. Clear notes really matter. They are so easy. And that is why I recommend this episode's sponsor, Granola. Granola is an AI-powered notepad built for the way real people actually meet. Using it is easy. You take your typical rough notes during a call. And in the background, Granola uses your device's audio to turn your messy bullet points into clean, structured, actionable insights. It's great because there's no setup. There's no awkward bots showing up to the call. My colleague told me what I love about Granola is that I can stay focused on the conversation instead of scrambling to capture every detail. And if I forget something, Granola got it with the action items ready to go. If meetings are eating up your day, Granola is a no-brainer. You can try it totally free. Just head to granola.ai slash Ramit. That's granola.ai slash Ramit to get your time back. Try it for free at granola.ai slash Ramit. You know I love automation. If there are ways that I can do less and have things automatically handled for me, fantastic. I don't want to spend time copying from one place to another, looking up some random document or transferring data from here to there. Automation should make all of that disappear. That's exactly why my teams use Notion. Notion is the AI workspace where your team's knowledge, projects, and agents all come together in one place. Teams using Notion move faster, cut friction and costs by consolidating tools and they stay aligned. Notion seamlessly connects your documents, meetings, and projects in a space where AI has the context it needs to help you do your best work. And because Notion is a central hub, it's easy for you to keep things moving. Things like answering questions, automating busy work, all done in the same workspace without friction. Learn more about how Notion can support your business at notion.com slash Ramit. That's all lowercase letters, notion.com slash Ramit to try Notion today. And when you use our link, you're supporting our show. Speaker 2 (19:04) In the application, you wrote about resentment. When did that resentment Speaker 3 (19:07) about money start? Speaker 1 (19:09) I think a big part was when we did move and I just like assumed we were going to put a pool in. And he was like, we're not putting a pool in. Speaker 3 (19:18) How much did the pool cost? Speaker 1 (19:19) 150 grand. Speaker 3 (19:21) Did you know that when you wanted Speaker 2 (19:22) it? Speaker 1 (19:23) I knew like maybe a little over 100. Okay. Speaker 2 (19:26) It's just another aspect of me saying, do we really need it? And she said, I grew up with a pool. I want my kids to grow up with a pool. And I said, well, I didn't grow up with a pool and I'm still alive and kicking. When did that come up? Speaker 1 (19:40) Oh, right after we bought it pretty much. I was like, okay, so when are we going to put the pool? Speaker 2 (19:44) Okay. And I said, what do you mean? Why would we just? put a brand new pool in a brand new house, why would we not look for a house that had a pool already in it? And she said, well, we're here now. And it kind of went away. And the next thing you know, I have these guys coming, surveying the land for a pool. And I said, why are these guys here? Speaker 1 (20:09) I want both of us to be happy. And I don't want him to resent me for just making decisions without him. Speaker 2 (20:15) Okay. And do you resent Speaker 3 (20:17) Lauren? Speaker 2 (20:21) I wish I had more of a say. Sometimes I don't feel validated because I'll say no and it just happens anyway. Speaker 2 (20:31) I guess that could build to resentment. But I don't always say no either. Do you think saying no Speaker 3 (20:36) makes you a bad guy? Speaker 2 (20:37) Sometimes, because that's how it just comes off. Because she'll say, oh, you just don't want our kids to have fun. I'm like, well, do they really need a $3,200 bounce house to have fun after we just bought? a new Power Wheels and a go-kart. I'm not the villain all the time. Speaker 1 (20:55) Let's also add that he went to Disney the week before by himself. Speaker 3 (20:58) What is this? What's happening right now? Like we're talking about you and you're Speaker 1 (21:01) jabbing Speaker 3 (21:02) him about Disney. Speaker 1 (21:03) Yeah. We're Speaker 3 (21:03) certainly going to talk about whatever Rob's got with money. We'll talk about that. But I'd like to talk about you for a second. Is saying no in your relationship a bad thing? Speaker 1 (21:13) Yeah, I mean, it's, I guess so. Speaker 3 (21:16) I don't Speaker 1 (21:17) know. I'm having a hard time answering it. Speaker 3 (21:19) How come? Speaker 1 (21:19) Because I want him to be, like, happy with the way we spend our money. You know, I want us both to feel good about things. But I also, I get resentful when he says no and he's not like paying the bills. Speaker 3 (21:36) What about when you say no? Speaker 1 (21:38) I don't think I say no much. Speaker 3 (21:40) Got it. Do you ever say no? Speaker 1 (21:42) Pretty rare. Speaker 3 (21:43) You ever say no to your kids? Speaker 1 (21:45) I mean, I feel like about certain things, like I don't want them to be like spoiled brats and just. have everything material and it's not about that so much because otherwise they do pretty much get whatever they want. Speaker 3 (22:00) Lauren, you're smiling. Speaker 1 (22:02) I'm just laughing at how much the bouncy house has come up on this. Speaker 3 (22:05) Yeah. Why are you laughing about it though? Speaker 1 (22:09) It's making me laugh. I was out there last weekend with my kids on it, just watching them spend the whole day out there and be tired out. And like the words that came to my mind were like, this is my rich life. Speaker 3 (22:22) This is my rich life. So? Speaker 1 (22:24) So it's okay. Speaker 3 (22:26) Is that how it works? If something feels good to us, it is our rich life so we can buy it? Speaker 1 (22:34) Yes, if I'm not going into like credit card debt over it. Speaker 3 (22:38) So as long as I'm not going into credit card debt, I can get it if I say it's my rich life. Speaker 1 (22:47) Yes. Speaker 3 (22:48) That's it. You look pained right now. Speaker 1 (22:50) Yeah, I feel pained. Speaker 3 (22:51) Why? Speaker 1 (22:51) Just because it sounds like, geez, like she can't say no to herself or say no to her kids or... That's true. Yeah. You Speaker 3 (23:00) can't. You told me that. Speaker 1 (23:01) Yeah. Speaker 3 (23:02) So what's painful about that? Speaker 1 (23:04) I guess it's like a little bit embarrassing. They don't have the restraint to. Speaker 3 (23:08) What do you think the problem is here? Speaker 1 (23:09) I mean, like lack of communication, but also just like lack of equality. and contributing. Got Speaker 3 (23:18) it. So the income is a problem as well. Yeah. Speaker 1 (23:20) Well, he was home with our babies. Like we decided to have him be a stay-at-home dad, which worked for a while. But then when the youngest went to school, I was like, okay, you need to do something now. You know, he retired from the Navy. If he didn't have kids, he could probably live off that fine. But with three kids, like I needed him to work. And I was getting resentful because I was working like 60 hours a week, three jobs. He wasn't working at all. So I'd come home and be like sitting on the couch. Speaker 2 (23:49) Well, it's like I retired. So I was like, okay, I can be retired and not have to work again. The hard truth was I have to work. Speaker 3 (23:56) It Speaker 2 (23:57) took a while for me to realize that I needed to bring in something. Got it. And I think the biggest pushback I was giving to her was like. Well, I'm not going to make as much as she's going to make. Like, the job career I took, it's just this. I'm a chef. It's not major money. I mean, okay, I'll go make my $23 an hour. It's not the best.