Stop Apologizing for Wanting More with Heather Dubrow

MeSsy with Christina Applegate & Jamie Lynn Sigler

In this episode of Living With It, Jamie Lynn Sigler interviews Heather Dubrow about navigating major life transitions and protecting one's

Key takeaways

• Heather Dubrow discusses the isolation felt during her time as a stay-at-home mom in Newport Beach.
• A core parenting philosophy shared is to 'parent the kid you have, not the kid you want them to be.'

Main topics

• Life Pivots
• Reality Television Scrutiny

Notable quotes

Parent the kid you have, not the kid you want them to be.

Conclusion

The episode serves as a powerful reminder that while we cannot control

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:00) Hi, I'm Jamie Lynn Segler and welcome to Living With It, a 10-part series about what it means to keep going when life doesn't go according to plan. Through honest conversations with people who've experienced loss, illness, grief, and life's unexpected challenges, as well as experts who help us navigate them, we hope you'll leave each episode feeling inspired, understood, and a little less alone. Speaker 1 (0:29) Hello, everybody, and welcome to Living With It. Today, I have my friend on the show. Her name is Heather Dubrow, and she is an actress, an author, a TV personality, an entrepreneur, a podcast host, and the author of the new Fancy That sub stack. We're going to talk all about pivots, parenthood, finding the calm within yourself, and so much more. She is wise. She is wonderful. She is chic. She is everything. Please enjoy Heather Dubrow. Heather, thank you so much for being on this little podcast with me because, you know, living with it is about pivoting in life and sometimes having things that are unexpected and having those moments be ones that teach us things that make us grow, that make us find out who we are, maybe in ways that we wouldn't have otherwise. And I feel like you're so perfect for this because you've lived so many different versions of yourself publicly, right? You were, you are an actress, reality star, wife, a mother, an entrepreneur, a podcaster. And I'm guessing, you know, from the inside, it it probably didn't feel like a perfectly mapped out journey, right? There's the pivots and the things you choose and the moments where you have to figure out who you are in a new chapter. So when you look back at your life and the woman you become, what were the moments that really changed the direction of your life, if you can think of them? Speaker 2 (2:16) Well, first of all, I love you. I'm so happy to be here. I love your show. I think you're doing amazing things and having incredible conversations, which is exactly what this platform is for. So congratulations. Thank you, Heather. I'm really happy to be here. You know, it's funny because I've been thinking about this, obviously, knowing I was coming on to talk to you for the last few days. I mean, the trajectory is weird. Like, we can't control our lives and that they, you know, especially as actresses and especially. You know, back in the day, for me personally, having four kids in seven years and ending up moving to Newport Beach, Orange County, and, you know, this was before the days of content creation and streamers. And, you know, being a stay-at-home mom, as many people know, is so isolating to begin with, and it can be really depressing. And as happy as we are to have our beautiful children, that's just the truth. And when you're used to being a productive... person, and then you're thrust into this role, it's crazy. And so at that time, even more so. But I think what's been striking me is I think that as women, we're taught to just be grateful for our lives. And we're not really taught that we're allowed to be unhappy with parts of it or outgrow parts of it. Speaker 1 (3:39) Yeah, that's so that's so true. And I think that that brings in all of these feelings of like guilt and shame that get muddied, you know, like muddled into the what we're having to deal with. And do you think that in some of those big pivots in your life? What helped you was maybe not necessarily changing the circumstances, but changing the way you saw the circumstances? I wish I could say Speaker 2 (4:04) that was true, honestly, Jamie. Like, it's, I wish, I remember so vividly being in my backyard. I think I was... let's see, I only had the three kids at the time. And I remember being so depressed about something that I didn't get a part or some show I saw on TV that I was like, God, I would have loved to have been on that, whatever it was. I know the feeling well. Okay. Right. I mean, we all have Speaker 1 (4:34) it. Speaker 2 (4:34) And so I remember Terry saying to me, gosh, I wish I had a crystal ball. Because if I had a crystal ball and I could show you that your life and everything, it was all going to be okay. Speaker 2 (4:47) And that you could relax. And then I thought, but you don't have a crystal ball and you can't tell me those things. And truthfully, if I lost the fire for wanting those things, would I have ended up sort of where I am right now? Speaker 1 (5:04) And Speaker 2 (5:04) then also, I mean, isn't it okay? Like, all right, I'm sure you've been a party to this too, where people make you feel guilty for things. Like you should be happy. basically that, you know, you have like people that want a second child, like we should be happy you have one child. Right. Or whatever. Isn't it okay? Or like you have, you've done all these for you. You've been on iconic shows. Isn't that enough for you? It's like, can't you be incredibly grateful for your life and what you had in your experiences and just still admit to yourself and maybe to the world that. I don't know, there's a piece of you that feels lost Speaker 1 (5:44) or that you might want more. Yes. And allow yourself, right? It really takes away, I think, from our intuition and our internal compass sometimes. I've had to come to terms a lot of the times with myself for that same reason. Of just being like this fire wouldn't be in me for no reason. Like I like my not wanting to give up or my continuing of wanting to pursue something that maybe is not clicking or working right now. I can't deny. You know, I try I try to take my time to get real with myself about certain things. But. Yeah. But that's terrible. Speaker 2 (6:27) Why should you have to? I've done that too. But I feel like that's how we minimize ourselves. Why do you have to get real with yourself? I remember, okay, I'm a lot older than you, but I remember being younger and seeing Doris Roberts, right? Yeah. From Everyone Loves Raymond and she won an Emmy. Speaker 2 (6:47) if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, I think she did. Yeah, at least one. So Speaker 1 (6:50) I Speaker 2 (6:50) think I was watching her win an Emmy, but she was winning something. And I remember seeing her and she, you know, she has white hair and all the things. And so she looked old, right? Right. And I thought, God, I hope it doesn't take that long for me, you know? And here I am, I'm 57. By the way, she was probably that age. And I feel like, okay, I have so much more to do. And isn't that okay? And why do I have to get real about it? Because I've had Speaker 1 (7:20) dark moments where I've gone, ugh, Speaker 2 (7:22) shouldn't I? I have such a nice life. My kids are good. Terry's good. I'm on this cute show. I mean, it's not cute. You know what I mean? But like, isn't Speaker 1 (7:32) it enough? And why do I care? But I Speaker 2 (7:35) do. And I do want. Speaker 1 (7:37) Yeah, but I mean, Heather, I mean, I, I, my husband, you know, similar to Terry, where he said he wished he had a crystal ball for you. My husband's famous thing for me always is your story isn't over yet. Like, stop feeling like it's over. And we don't know what's around the corner. And if anyone is an example of that, it's you. Like, look at all of the ways that you have continued to just not reinvent yourself, but like add on to who you are and what you do. And again, I know from the outside it can seem all seamless and I'm sure it wasn't. But I hope that you I hope that you acknowledge that for yourself, that you really are. an example of that for a lot of women, you know? I so Speaker 2 (8:24) appreciate that. I think it took me time. You know, listen, when I joined Housewives, actors were not on reality and it was very looked down upon. Yeah. And, you know, my family was so horrible to me about it. It was really difficult. Very, very difficult. And so, and, you know, doing this show is so difficult. So. all of that on top of each other. And I had four little kids. My youngest kid was nine months old when I started. Oh my gosh, I didn't Speaker 1 (8:52) even realize that. What? Yeah. You know, I myself sometimes struggle with being in the public eye for, I don't know, feelings of like being misunderstood and wanting to sort of make sure that who I am is what is. portrayed out there or what people are perceiving what is this what's the psychological difference between like being judged as an actress and maybe a character you're playing versus Speaker 1 (9:23) be people judging who they believe you are. I cannot imagine how difficult that is. And how do you deal with that? It's crazy. I mean, well, Speaker 2 (9:32) listen, you also have to understand that when I, in my heyday of being a scripted actress, we didn't have social media and all this stuff. So it was very, very different. But I will tell you, as an actress, people will come up to you and be like, oh, I love your... character. I love your show. Oh, my God. So and so is so funny. Or if they say, oh, you're a meanie, they know it's not you. Speaker 1 (9:55) Right. Right. Of course. You've struck a nerve by a character you're playing means you're doing a great job as an actor. Speaker 2 (10:02) Exactly. And the audience gets it. They know you're not a serial killer. They know you're not, you know, a cheater or whatever it is. But when you're on a reality show, you are not in control of how you're shown. I mean, look, I always say to people who are going on reality shows, I'm like, if you don't say it, they can't show it, right? So you're in charge of how you behave. But they can't show everything because the algorithm is like for every 30 hours we film, 20 minutes makes it to the air. So they don't show everything that you might feel is important. You see the audience response to it and they're like, wow, you're so irritated all the time or whatever it is because they only see pieces of you. And I think for me, that's why 12 or so years ago I started podcasting because I thought, you know, I feel I need to have a more raw, unedited version of myself around. Speaker 1 (11:02) Well, that allows you to get more control over your narrative, I'm assuming. I'm trying. Well, yeah. And listen, you can, I mean, that stuff spreads like wildfire. I know. And that's difficult. But what, so what, what are things that you do to help support yourself? Do you just surround yourself by the people that really know you to remind yourself of who you are? Because at a certain point, you have to feel like, I'm never going to be able to get ahead of. of the gossip and talk or judgment. So like, how do you make sure that you know who you are and that that is not affecting you deeply or does it and or does it or how does it? So many Speaker 2 (11:47) answers here. So first of all, I'm so much better than I used to be because when social media first came out and Instagram first came out, I should say, that's kind of when I was starting the show, I think. And. Boy, people, mean, mean, mean. And I would do that typical thing where you see a hundred nice things and one terrible thing and you focus on the terrible thing. I still do it. I'm Speaker 1 (12:09) not, yeah, I'm not like that anymore. Speaker 2 (12:12) Wow, tell me how. If someone is writing something mean, I almost feel bad for them because can you imagine sitting somewhere and thinking about something mean and writing it and hitting post? No, I can't. The amount of vitriol it takes to do something like that and the karma hit, I just, like, I feel bad. And if someone writes something nasty, like, I see. I try to like respond to a lot of comments and be interactive. If I see something that's very hideous or it's against one of my children, I will delete it. If it's just like not that nice to me, I don't really care. Because to be honest with you, a lot of times other people will go after the trolls. In your defense, you have your army. Yeah, it's kind of funny to watch them all fight with each other. So I've definitely, I mean, listen, time, wisdom, whatever. It allows you to get a perspective. But I think also the other part of the answer to your question is I exercise every day. Every day. I have a very solid relationship. I have a very solid marriage. I'm not saying it's perfect. No one's relationships are perfect. I'm not saying that. As a matter of fact, he just pissed me off. But what I'm saying is... No, solid is Speaker 1 (13:32) a great word, though. We're solid. I Speaker 2 (13:34) like that. I like that. Yeah, we're really solid. And you know you're solid with your partner when you're having, like you're irritated with each other, whatever's going on, you're just having one of those days, months, years, whatever. But you have an issue and they are immediately there for you. You're immediately there for them. That's the kind of relationship you want. That's what I have.