King Charles' Four Damning Words & The Patrick Clancy Mistake

Mamamia Out Loud

The episode navigates a wide emotional spectrum, beginning with a somber discussion regarding recent incidents of family violence in New Sou

Key takeaways

• The film 'The Invite', directed by Olivia Wilde, serves as a catalyst for discussing the tension between being cared for and being desired.
• Charles Spencer's new book, 'Swan Song, Diana, My Sister', contains allegations that King Charles said 'she'll be forgotten soon enough' following Princess Diana's death.

Main topics

• Family Violence in Australia
• The Invite Movie Review

Notable quotes

it is important to always be in love. And then things happen and then it says, which is why one should never marry.

Conclusion

The episode offers a complex blend of heavy social commentary on viole

Transcript preview

Speaker 4 (0:03) Hello and welcome to Mamma Mia Out Loud. It's what women are actually talking about on Monday the 21st of September. I'm Holly Wainwright. Speaker 3 (0:09) I'm Jessie Stephens. And I'm Amelia Lester. And Holly, you gave me a cauliflower last week. Did you eat it? I ate it. And it was so yummy that you grew yourself with your own bare hands. It was the most thoughtful gift because you know I like my cauliflower. And I made it crispy and I made it very nicely seasoned and it was very yummy. Speaker 4 (0:26) That makes me so happy because they take a long time to grow. It's so kind. That's Speaker 3 (0:30) why it's Speaker 4 (0:31) so stupid growing vegetables. You could go to the shop and buy one of those for a couple of dollars. Instead, I spent four months growing you that coffee. You don't give people flowers. You give them a bouquet of vegetables. Have Speaker 3 (0:39) you given Amelia a vegetable yet? No. She's given me hot Speaker 4 (0:43) sauce. I did. And some citrus last Christmas, I think. That's Speaker 3 (0:47) true. Speaker 4 (0:47) Anyway, you know, well, who knows what I'll bring to the next record. A bouquet of... Speaker 4 (0:55) Radishes? Chilies? Anyway, here's what's made our agenda for today's show. There is a movie that I had been dying to see, but I knew I had to wait until I was alone to watch it. Why? Speaker 3 (1:07) Sounds like you watch pornography. Speaker 2 (1:09) Plus, Princess Diana's brother has a book out about his sister. It's coming out tomorrow and the king wishes he could still say off with his head. Speaker 3 (1:18) And... Patrick Clancy has just this morning sat down with 60 Minutes. We discuss what he said and how it is being received. Speaker 4 (1:25) Before we get to any of that today, though, there's a distressing familiarity to what I'm about to say. In New South Wales alone, over one 12-hour period this weekend, three women lost their lives in three separate incidents. These women were aged between 23 and 90 years old. Each has their own story. their own devastated families left asking impossible questions, really. All of them, it seems, were connected to the men being held by police over their deaths. In two cases, the women were related to those men. In one, in a romantic relationship, although that word feels desperately inappropriate. There is also a really horrific story unfolding in the Blue Mountains west of Sydney, as we're recording today, that has resulted in the death of a five-year-old child. Some days, these brutal headlines just feel relentless, overwhelming, frightening. too close to home. Because the truth about family violence is that these deaths that land on the front pages, in all caps, in bold, are all too often the end result of a much broader, more widespread reality. Phones ring in police stations across the country every two minutes with reports of incidents of family violence. That's 720 calls every day. And those are the people who pick up the phone. So it's with that in mind that we want to remind people today that there are many organizations working tirelessly in this space. It's really complex. We know that. They're working in the areas of prevention, of assistance. And in the case of Rise Up, who we particularly want to point out today, of helping people, women and children in particular, leave family violence situations safely. So if you're feeling helpless today. and I know many of us are, we're putting some links in the show notes to learn more about Rise Up, which is our charity partner, and to other resources. And of course, if you need help or support yourself, contact 1-800-RESPECT. And of course, if you're in an immediately dangerous situation, call Triple O. I watched a movie on the weekend that I have been dying to see. Have you seen The Invite? Speaker 3 (3:40) I was meant to go on Friday and then my friend cancelled on me last minute. So it's a sore point, but I really, really want to see it. Have Speaker 2 (3:46) you seen it, Amelia? No, because Speaker 4 (3:48) M. Speaker 2 (3:49) Vernon Speaker 4 (3:49) on this show said, Speaker 2 (3:51) it's great, but you cannot watch it with your partner. Speaker 4 (3:55) Exactly. And I Speaker 2 (3:56) just haven't had the moment. So Speaker 4 (3:57) that was me too, right? So I've seen all the press around this movie. It's the movie that Olivia Wilde has directed. It's called The Invite because they invite the upstairs neighbours down for drinks, but also those upstairs neighbours have an invite Speaker 3 (4:09) for the married couple. Speaker 4 (4:11) It's actually, the story around this movie is a very hopeful one because it's been a massive hit. And yet it's the opposite of a Marvel movie. It all takes place in one apartment over the course of... a couple of hours. It's got four people in it. That's it. Like it's a very intimate show. So M. Vernon recommended it because it's about relationships and sex and long-term relationships and sex, right? And she said, don't watch it. And so I took the advice to Amelia. And so I've been dying to watch it. And it's just come to streaming, except you do have to pay for it at the moment. It's really expensive. Yeah, I can't. It was really expensive. I Speaker 3 (4:44) was Speaker 4 (4:44) like, Speaker 3 (4:44) it's chipping into the movie. I know, but I was like, Speaker 4 (4:46) it is really expensive. But I was like, I am dying to see it. And Brent is out. This is what I want to discuss, right? But I didn't want to watch a movie about long-term relationships and sex and attraction with Brent. That just felt awkward. Sorry, Brent. I Speaker 3 (4:58) just Speaker 4 (4:58) know Brent's going to call you about that Speaker 3 (4:59) fee, though. He really is. Speaker 4 (5:01) Oh, my God, he's going to go, you spent $24.99 on watching a movie without me? And I'm like, Speaker 3 (5:07) damn it, I did. Speaker 4 (5:09) Anyway, back to the content of the movie. Olivia Wilde directed it, which we've talked about before. It stars her and Seth Rogen as a married couple, and they've got sexy upstairs neighbours in the guise of Edward Norton and Penelope Cruz. Just one of the sexiest women who has ever existed on the planet. And in it, she is playing a psychotherapist who's also like a sexpert. And these two... are having sex all the time. And our married couple downstairs, who are not in a great place in their relationship, there's a lot of resentments bubbling along. They've got a child who's not home this night. This Speaker 2 (5:46) is Olivia Wilde and Seth Rogen. Olivia Wilde and Seth Rogen. They're a Speaker 4 (5:48) married couple. Often bitch and moan about the sex, the noisy sex, but they're also really intrigued. So they have them around for dinner. And that's the movie. And did I hear that Esther Perel was like Speaker 3 (5:59) a consultant Speaker 4 (6:01) or something? The script was written by Rashida Jones. Esther Perel is a... consultant on it. So it's a lot about, in particular, female sexuality, not only. It brings in things about perimenopause. It brings in stuff about familiarity. But one of the things that's really interesting about it is there's this point in which, because obviously Seth Rogen and Olivia Wilde's characters are not in a great place in their relationship. And he's like a man who's dealing with a lot of simmering anger about all kinds of things about why his life hasn't turned out the way he wants. And at one point, Penelope Cruz says to him, you two are so mad with each other. How do you have sex? And they go quiet. She goes, you do have sex, right? And they're like, not for a year. And she loses her mind. And then the conversation is kind of all around this stuff and about desire and about who you look at, how you want to be seen through other people's eyes. And when I read this article today that was in one of our group chat likes. topic suggestions that the headline was, would you rather be cared for or desired in relationship? It was very invite coded. Did you read this essay? I Speaker 3 (7:08) did. And it reminded me of what Esther Perel says. So Esther Perel talks about this a lot. And she says that desire is about wanting and love is about needing and that one almost cancels out. the other. And that in a good relationship, a good relationship, she says, is like walking, where there's, you know, desire is your left leg and love is the right leg. And you're kind of constantly trying to find this balance because she says caretaking is a very powerful experience in love. It is also a very powerful anti-ephrodisiac. And so how do you find desire? I think we accept that desire is the beginning and care might be what comes after. But there are so many accounts and studies and even Gillian Anderson keeps writing these books about Speaker 2 (8:02) women and desire. Speaker 3 (8:04) And there seems... With Speaker 2 (8:06) suggestive citrus fruit on the cover. Speaker 3 (8:08) Exactly, which I appreciate. But women are saying, I miss feeling wanted. And so the care might be there and you might feel loved. But do you feel... And how can that be sustained over a... long-term relationship? I think that's an interesting question. Speaker 2 (8:28) And it's clearly a question that cuts across so many cultures because did you know this movie, The Invite, is based on a Spanish play and has been made almost concurrently in six different countries, which is apparently extremely rare. Like you'll get a remake in a different country a few years down the line, but to make six everywhere from South Korea to Spain is Speaker 3 (8:49) very unusual. I Speaker 2 (8:49) forgot that Americans Speaker 3 (8:50) really can't do a movie that not only isn't in their language, but isn't in their accent. Like they need to make it theirs or else people are like, I Speaker 4 (8:58) don't understand. But Speaker 3 (8:59) also Speaker 4 (8:59) the cultural touch points of it are kind of interesting and important too. But that is such a good point that it cuts across that push-pull, cuts across so many cultures. Most women I know faced with the question, would you rather be cared or desired, would be like, why do I have to choose? Like can't I be desired and cared for? Is that not on the Speaker 2 (9:21) menu? Psychology Today, the article we read, seemed to suggest that studies have been done and I don't know how they do them. Maybe they ask you to make a cup of tea and then they check your endorphins or something. Not your endorphins, your pheromones. But studies have been done that suggest that they are in conflict, as you were saying, Jessie. Yeah, that Speaker 3 (9:39) desire happens most when you feel like the other person doesn't need you. Yes. Esther Perel often says, are you most attracted Speaker 4 (9:48) to your partner when they're on the other side of the room talking to someone else, doing something that's got nothing to do with you, is like independent of