Danny Goler: DMT, Lasers & the Hidden Structure of Reality: What Science Won't Touch (But He Did) - E205

Makes Sense - with Dr. JC Doornick

In this episode of 'Makes Sense' with Dr. JC Doornick, independent researcher Danny Goler discusses his groundbreaking work using lasers to capture geometric patterns he believes represent a hidden

Key takeaways

• Reality may not be composed of particles but rather encoded information, akin to digital code.
• Lasers can reveal geometric structures in the environment that resemble patterns seen during DMT experiences.

Main topics

• The nature of reality as encoded information
• DMT-induced geometric visions and their potential real-world correlates

Notable quotes

"What if reality isn't made of particles — what if it's made of code?"

"I realized, well, maybe light has some kind of a key in there."

Conclusion

Danny Goler's work challenges conventional scientific paradigms by suggesting that reality may be fundamentally informational rather than material. His laser experiments,

Transcript preview

Speaker 3 (0:00) If you've ever wondered whether there's another layer to reality that's hiding just beneath the ordinary aspects of your perception, you're going to love this conversation. Have you noticed that the world that we live in has been doing most of the thinking for you? That your beliefs, perceptions, reactions, fears, and doubts have been shaped by unsolicited outside noise? How easy it's been. for you to slip into that default sleepwalking mode and label it as Speaker 2 (0:28) life and reality. Yeah, that ends here. Welcome Speaker 3 (0:32) to the Make Sense with Dr. JC podcast. This is your opportunity to start thinking for yourself, reclaim control, and step back into that role as the shock collar and dominant force of your own reality. It's when you change the way that you look at things that the things that you look at begin to change. So let's wake up. Let's rise up. and let's make sense of why and how shift happens. Speaker 3 (1:02) My guest today is an independent researcher who accidentally stumbled upon something that has ignited one of the most fascinating conversations in all of consciousness research. Using nothing more than a laser and an unconventional way of looking at light, Danny Goller began documenting geometric structures that many say resemble the exact patterns reported by people. during DMT experiences. Welcome, Danny Goeller, to the Make Sense with Dr. JC podcast. We're so excited to have you here, and our listeners are just going to love, love, love this information. Welcome. Speaker 1 (1:40) Thank you so much for having me. Speaker 3 (1:42) So what I'd love to do is ask you a question that I don't think anybody's asked you. What is it like to be Danny Goeller these days? Speaker 1 (1:49) I don't know. Most of my attention actually goes to more mundane things like my family, my daughter, a lot less exciting in the public sphere. Yeah, I mean, it's fun to be able to go and talk about this fun stuff and get people excited about it and share information. We also started doing these events where we take people through transformation. So it's very rewarding to see people, you know, actually waking up to a bigger reality and to play any role in that is super exciting. So, yeah, I have to say that I feel very blessed. I have everybody healthy, a very loving family. What can I say? I truly feel. Completely blessed. Speaker 3 (2:24) So tell us a little bit about yourself kind of before we dive all in with the experiment. Like, how did all of this begin? Like, where did the curiosity begin? You know, what were you doing before you were known as this? Kind of walk me through that exact moment up until you did this experiment. What led to it all? Speaker 1 (2:45) Yeah, so I basically had an experience on DMT that was even more convincing than it usually is. And then I basically could no longer entertain the idea that it was all mind made, so to speak. So I asked myself, what can we potentially ask and how we can potentially approach the problem from a more scientific perspective? And how do we actually discern whether or not it is in fact real? And that led me to a very long journey of years in which eventually I figured out that actually the fact that lasers are supposed to be doing something and lo and behold, they actually did. That's the shortest version I can give you of that. Speaker 3 (3:22) What made you start thinking about the laser? I understand the components of the laser, but what made you pick it up and start going in that direction? Speaker 1 (3:31) The story is very long. It stretches over years. And this is where the movie is literally going through every step of the way of how it unfolded. We definitely won't be able to cover it here. But the general gist of it is that I was thinking about it more in concrete terms. So people usually are, they're either... too rigid in their thinking or they're too esoteric in their thinking. To me, it seemed like there's not a lot of middle ground. I now know that there are serious researchers that are asking these questions in a more serious flavor. But back then when I started, and that was before, you know, the whole DMTX project, by the way. So like that was, you know, I think 2017 or something or 16. And I just felt like I really was not happy with any answer I saw online of people. People are either saying, well, we knew all along. And, you know, even if people are talking about shamanic traditions, I mean, they have a story about it. I don't know if they know what it is. And also from the scientific perspective, the mishap is very obvious. Like there's too much rigidity to even entertain these things as serious. So I kind of felt like, okay, well, if the answers are going to appear, I'm going to have to come up with them. And then basically the laser was a combination of thinking about it technically and then following a certain thread of what appeared to be kind of like hints. For all intents and purposes, it's a case that makes it more difficult to communicate to scientists because if you tell them that part of your methodology was following invisible scent that was sent to you from the beyond, people tend to disengage and I get it. That was a big part of it. But also I was thinking along technical lines. The idea was that I knew that light had to be involved somehow because we can see it. And if I can see it, that means the photons are carrying information from wherever they are to wherever I am. And then I realized... because light does have pretty unique qualities, even in mainstream physics. So I realized, well, maybe light has some kind of a key in there. And then I realized that actually quantum computers are already utilizing very similar properties. Quantum computers were already a thing. So like, I think it was D-Wave, the first company that really made one that actually worked. And I realized, oh, okay, well, if they work, they're no longer theoretical. And what they do in order to work is something very interesting because they do controlled coherence and then they allow it to decohere in a particular moment. And that means that the particle basically becomes part of your world line versus all the other ones. In that instance, what essentially you're doing is that you're utilizing lateral computation across the world, so to speak, if you believe in the many worlds interpretation. And that's how you can run these enormous calculations with a very particular kind of calculation, not with general compute. But then I thought, okay, well, that's interesting. Maybe there's something there. And the second I started thinking about that, as in moving information through this process of... decoherence and specifically light scattering, something started happening. Basically, I started getting these like hints that would match some kind of a physics paper and it would kind of follow that. And eventually, after years of a lot of back and forth and trying to figure it out, and actually my wife was instrumental in that day that we figured out the laser. She also started paying attention because one of the synchronicities happened to both of us. And then she all of a sudden had a different kind of seriousness with which she was listening to me about this. And then we started going. through all these details that I've accumulated over the years together. And eventually, almost together, we landed on this idea that the laser is supposed to be doing something. And that's essentially how the laser idea was born. Speaker 3 (6:45) When I've done 5-MeO-DMT, I kind of leave, you know, the planet. I don't recall ever having the ability to like crouch down and look at a wall. How did you put those things together? Is it a different type of a dose? that people are taking that give them the capacity to kind of like consciously do something. My experiences have kind of like JC has left the building, you know, and I come back and I have no idea how much time has passed and all of that stuff. How does the DMT component work in people like being able to walk over and look at something? Speaker 1 (7:18) Yeah. So the first thing to make clear is that DMT is not 5-MeO DMT. So you can have both of them synthesized, which by the way is better. They're just completely different pharmacologically and they're completely different experientially. They should not even share a name. They're just two different universes of a thing. Speaker 3 (7:35) That Speaker 1 (7:36) being said, we now know that 5-MeO actually works even better. And there to your question, how do you stay aware and coherent? Well, that's experience. So like I can actually walk on 5-MeO, like depending on the dose, of course, but for the most part, I'm fully functional. And even more so because I had... I was probably one of the more experienced people with it. Like I've done it so many times, it's impossible to count. And it's exactly because I was so experienced with it that I knew what was in the card, so to speak. So then when I started having these extra experiences, I said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, that's weird. That's not what's supposed to be happening. And then I realized that there's something bigger. The answer to the question is twofold. One, you can also do it with 5MEO and you would even see the code better. But yes, 5-MeO is a lot harder to stay upright with, for sure. It's a very big experience. It's probably the biggest experience you can have on the side of the aisle, I would say. With DMT, a lot of people can totally function on it. I mean, I don't recommend this, but I've spent a year on it. I was basically doing everything on it, driving, going to the gym, doing everything. So it's a matter of experience, I think. Different people are different. If you're one of these people that your margin from smoking it... to then going to hyperspace is this thin, you won't be able to do the laser experiment. It's just not going to work. And you're going to be just uncomfortable and you're just constantly going to kind of like, you know, your eyes are going to like roll over and you're going to go. But if a lot of people, their margin of staying in the space but still being fully coherent is actually pretty wide and they can easily do the experiment. So the reason that DMT captures so many people's imaginations is it's super content-filled. 5-MeO is not. So 5-MeO is kind of like a dissolution. First of all, very cerebral. So it's not so much somatic like 5-MeO. You can experience things in the body, but it's not really mostly about that. It's just that the whole world changes to something completely different. Sure. And it feels more real than this, but not in the same way that 5-MeO does. So where 5-MeO feels more, I guess, what you would call properly spiritual. DMT, for the most part, doesn't feel spiritual. It feels more robotic. It feels like super advanced technology, almost like nuts and bolts. It just feels like Transformers, right? Like a super advanced civilization of Transformers, like three million years in the future. It doesn't feel like you're on the way to meet God. It feels more like, oh, you're about to be exposed to some kind of an enormous secret this Speaker 3 (10:06) whole Speaker 1 (10:06) time. And the reason that that is so... astounding for people is because they had no idea their brain can do this. It's very jarring. Even the visual content itself is very weird and very realistically salient for people. And that's different than just kind of like, I guess even though the 5MU is a very big and just expansive experience, you kind of expect that if you're doing something called the God molecule. I think it's the weirdness of an end that really hits people hard because they did not expect. that their brain can actually produce something like that. Speaker 3 (10:41) So explain to us exactly what it is that you actually see or what all these thousands of people see when they're taking part in this experiment. Speaker 1 (10:52) Yeah, so basically what I discovered is that when you do this, when you just project the reflected light on the surface, specifically a laser, and then you happen to be on DMT, you see what appears to be some kind of a running code or some symbology. And it's there in a very realistic manner. It's not just kind of transient like a lot of hallucinations are. It has this rigidity, solidification in space. spatial coordinates that don't change in relationship to what you do. So they change, but not in relationship to what you do. So you can move your head. It won't move with you. You will be moving in relationship to it, like with a real object. If you move the light itself, it's not moving with the light. So it's not in the projection. The light is moving across it. It has all the signs of being there, so to speak. And that quality is unique because you don't usually see that. Even with hallucinations, you kind of have this, even if they're very realistic, they are kind of transient in nature. Like if you look away, they can change. If you close your eyes or, you know. Or kind of reset your attention, it can change. But the code doesn't do that. It's just there, exactly how it is, doing its own thing. And the weirdest part is that it seems to be the same across individuals. Now, this claim is the contentious one because the next question scientifically is how do you know? How do you know people are actually seeing the same thing? Well, we're testing for that. So we found some clever ways to test for that and we're doing that currently. Speaker 3 (12:31) What is it that when you first noticed it, did you know what it was or did you make an assumption or did you kind of try to first talk yourself out of what you thought it was? You know, what was that like the first time you saw it or did that just make you say, I knew it, I knew it or like, what the fuck is that? Speaker 1 (12:51) Well, we still have no idea what it is. I mean, we call it a code of reality, but just because we had to call it something we haven't, we don't have the first clue what we're looking at. I can say that I have my convictions because my interactions with them, whomever they are, but that already happened before the laser. So by the time the laser came, I was already exposed to a lot of information that made sense of all of it in terms of like what's actually happening here. But obviously substantiating this and communicating this to others is a whole other story. And it needs to come with the understanding that there's gradation to people's understanding and comfort levels. And, you know, you don't just. expect everybody to just come along. There needs to be a gestation period. Essentially, that's what's happening. So it's a global