John Brown & The Raid on Harper’s Ferry | Macrodosing - Sept 17, 2026

Macrodosing: Arian Foster and PFT Commenter

Arian Foster, PFT, and Big T welcome guest T-Bob to discuss John Brown's controversial legacy, his role in Bleeding Kansas, the Harpers Ferr

Key takeaways

• John Brown's Harpers Ferry raid was a pivotal moment that intensified national divisions over slavery.
• The legacy of John Brown is complex—seen as both a heroic abolitionist and a violent extremist.

Main topics

• John Brown's life and radical abolitionism
• Bleeding Kansas and Civil War tensions

Notable quotes

"John Brown contains multitudes."

"It's like a movie. It is like a movie."

Conclusion

The episode blends historical analysis with current events, highlighti

Transcript preview

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So it was kind of away from most of the campus buildings going like kind of let you just walk on the field. Yeah, absolutely. Speaker 7 (2:03) Nobody there to stop you. Speaker 5 (2:05) That's wild. Yeah. So there was a there was a special teams coach. that was walking around and he saw me. Speaker 8 (2:12) It's like a movie. It is like a movie. It's like a Speaker 5 (2:14) movie. Speaker 7 (2:15) Hey, son, you got real talent. Won't you come out and practice? Speaker 5 (2:32) Today's episode of Macro Dosing is being brought to you by Quince. You know the clothes that you have in your closet and you find yourself wearing them on repeat? It's a sweater that goes with everything, the perfect pair of pants, the tee that you sometimes reach for the first. Those are the pieces that make getting dressed easy. That's what Quince does the absolute best. I've got a sweater from them. When it comes time for the fall, when it comes time for the wintertime, it is my go-to sweater. 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Quince.com slash dose. Welcome back to Macrodosing. It is Thursday. It is September 17th. And we got T-Bob a bear on today's show. Arian, Big T, Mad Dog Mac in the booth. We got the whole squad here. T-Bob, good to see you. Speaker 8 (4:13) Always a pleasure. I just said we Speaker 5 (4:15) get to see as if we hadn't just recorded an interview for the last hour and had a conversation. But you have to maintain the illusion of a new show starting. T-Bob's going to be also on next Tuesday's episode. So there's that. Yeah, I Speaker 8 (4:26) love being here. You guys know I love being here. So thank you for Speaker 5 (4:29) having me again. Yeah, absolutely. No problem. We got a good episode to get into today. We're going to talk a little bit about John Brown. He was in the news. He was in the news last week. If you look at the Google Trends for... John Brown probably hadn't seen a spike like that. It's all because of college football. Speaker 8 (4:46) John Brown, that's, I would imagine, without speaking out of turn, that was John Brown's first time being featured in a college football hype video. Speaker 6 (4:56) Would have to. Probably. I think Speaker 8 (4:59) that's a safe assumption. I could be wrong, but I think that's a safe, awesome hype video. West Speaker 5 (5:04) Virginia probably never did anything. He might have been in the background of one. Speaker 8 (5:09) I mean, he got front row treatment in this one. It Speaker 5 (5:14) was pretty much the John Brown story. If you're Speaker 6 (5:16) Kansas, do you not save that for basketball? Speaker 5 (5:20) That's a great point. That's Speaker 6 (5:22) a Speaker 5 (5:22) fantastic point. You got no other trick plays to pull out at this point. They took your best shot and they kicked the shit out of you. Speaker 6 (5:32) Because you can't use it again. Speaker 5 (5:33) Also, what does that do to John Brown's legacy? Speaker 6 (5:38) Yeah, got whipped at home. Yep, Speaker 5 (5:40) well, yep. Let's say they got beat at home. Sure. Speaker 8 (5:45) The only thing I would say, though, because the basketball point's a good one, except, like, I don't know if the basketball game, I don't know how long they've been playing. I don't know if it has the same direct ties. Like, in reading about the border war, Kansas-Mizzou, at the first editions of this, they had literal veterans. from each side of the war on the respective sidelines during the game. Speaker 7 (6:08) Yeah. Like, so this has been, you know, intrinsically tied into football Speaker 8 (6:12) specifically. Maybe that existed in basketball wells, and I just don't know about it, but I know for a fact that they had actual veterans from the Civil War on the sidelines for the football game. That's pretty crazy. It's such a dumb sport. It really is, dude. Speaker 5 (6:27) I love it. So we're going to get a little bit into that, the life and times of John Brown, who was... I guess simultaneously a crazy dude, but a good dude, but also like a violent dude, but also a good dude. I don't know. And Speaker 7 (6:38) also a weird dude, which I didn't know last episode. I was like one of the dopest white people ever. Yeah. Had some problematic relationships that some would, yeah, should find problematic. Yeah. Which I didn't know. I didn't know that. I recant. In Speaker 5 (6:57) conclusion, John Brown contains multitudes. Speaker 7 (7:01) Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 5 (7:03) Great beard, though. Speaker 7 (7:04) Like one of the best in Speaker 5 (7:06) all time Speaker 7 (7:06) illustrated Speaker 5 (7:07) beard out of John Brown. Speaker 7 (7:09) What kind of lit? Yeah. Speaker 5 (7:10) Yeah. Before we get into that hair, we got we got some news to get into today. Some things going on in the world. Netflix stole my idea. Speaker 4 (7:21) to redo Speaker 5 (7:21) the Stanford Prison Experiment. I actually just wanted to do that at Barstool because I think we had an episode on the Stanford Prison Experiment not too long ago, maybe like the last few years. Can Speaker 8 (7:31) you give me a quick elevator Stanford Prison Experiment explanation? Speaker 5 (7:34) Yeah, so at Stanford back in the, was it late 60s, early 70s? They did an experiment where they got a group of students together. They volunteered for this and they gave half the students. the assignment to act as prison guards and the other half of the students the assignment to act as prisoners. And they set up a little like makeshift prison for them. And then they observed how the students would treat each other just based on these fake rules that they had been given. I forget how long they had to stay there. It was maybe like a week or so. They canceled it after just a few days because the guards in the experiment allegedly got like abusive. Just immediately. Given the power. But then other stuff came up later and we don't know necessarily how accurate those reports were. and how overblown they were so the whole thing is kind of called into question now we don't know um because the lesson that people took away from that experiment was that if you give somebody power it doesn't matter if they're a good person bad person they will become drunk with power and they will do bad things but now there's some people that are saying that that's not actually the data from the experiment was not it wasn't well run okay Speaker 7 (8:42) and Speaker 5 (8:42) it was kind of like they used the data to reach a conclusion that they wanted to reach. But Speaker 8 (8:46) all I need to understand is the idea that it says that like, yeah, you let you give people power and they'll corrupt. Which is why Speaker 5 (8:53) I really wanted to recreate this at Barstool Sports and just assign people roles of guard, prisoner, and just film it all Speaker 8 (9:02) and see how it shook out. I mean, at this place, the guards would immediately be abusing who's ever underneath them. Who Speaker 5 (9:10) would be Speaker 8 (9:10) the worst Speaker 5 (9:10) guard? Speaker 6 (9:13) I don't answer questions like this anymore. I Speaker 8 (9:17) love Mincy, but don't let Mincy get a little power over you. I can see him exercising that. I actually think Mincy would be the best guard. Speaker 5 (9:25) Mincy would be the guard that would smuggle you shit. Speaker 8 (9:28) Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's fair. Speaker 5 (9:30) He'd fall Speaker 1 (9:30) asleep and unlock the door for you. Actually, yeah. Speaker 5 (9:34) Mincy would doze off because you'd have a 10-minute conversation with him about Ole Miss football or something. He'd be exhausted from walking around all day. And he'd sit down in a little chair next to your cell, and he'd fall asleep and comically snore with his little hair blowing up in the front. And then he'd have his key ring hanging precipitously off of his belt loop and just right in front of you. Speaker 8 (9:59) Yoink. This actually is way too inside baseball, but I do know my answer. And y'all know him. It's Carson. The keeper of the studio at Wake Up Barstool. He's 22 years old. He already thinks he's the smartest fuck in every room that he's in. He's already a condescending prick. Like, if you gave him actual power, he would be... insufferable. I Speaker 6 (10:23) like Carson, but yeah, he is the guy that you don't want. He would be the worst. Speaker 5 (10:28) I'd say him and Lucas. Lucas already kind of is. His job is basically to be a prison guard on Barstool After Dark. Yeah. Speaker 7 (10:39) That Speaker 5 (10:39) is his role. Speaker 6 (10:40) Later investigation revealed that the guards were actually coached into being cruel. A 2019 debunking was published, which revealed that the guards were trained to reproduce the researchers' desired results and that the conclusions of the experiment were predetermined. That was Dr. Philip Zimbardo. Is that correct? Zimbardo? I remember in a class in high school, we had to watch videos that he did. And I'm pretty sure he was the Stanford Prison Experiment guy. Speaker 5 (11:04) 30 willing. So this is the one that's on Netflix. 30 willing participants enter a real prison. Speaker 7 (11:09) Oh, that's awesome. They get to use an actual prison. Speaker 5 (11:11) They're randomly assigned as guards or prisoners thrust into a system of power, hierarchy, and control. They'll discover whether ordinary people inevitably conform to the rules that are given or whether empathy, morality, and individuality can withstand the forces pushing them in the opposite direction. As the pressure builds, the balance of power begins to shift. The central question feels more urgent than ever. Does power corrupt? I guess it also has to do with the fact of like what... What is their incentive? If you're assigned to be a prison guard, do you, since it's a Netflix show, do you know that you'll get paid for longer the more that you actually fulfill your duties as a prison guard? I don't know. Or if you like object to what you're supposed to do, are they like, hey, we'll kick you off the show and then you stop getting a paycheck? Because then I think that would probably, then Speaker 8 (12:03) it's like money and power corrupt. I mean, surely Netflix is going to be doing the exact same thing the original researchers did, right? Like they're not going to be, this is not going to be a controlled thing where they, or like they're going to be influencing it. Yeah. It's a reality television show. They're going to be trying to push the guards to, Speaker 8 (12:24) control them and they're going to be pushing the prisoners to like rebel. I would imagine at least. Yeah, I would imagine too. Speaker 5 (12:30) I think who would be the worst prisoners? The company? Yeah, like who would try to like organize riots and... Speaker 8 (12:39) I mean, what if Big Cat was a prisoner? What guard would feel... confident enough in an experiment setting to try to keep Big Cat in line. Speaker 5 (12:51) I think some people would relish the opportunity. Speaker 8 (12:54) Yeah, maybe Speaker 5 (12:55) so. Speaker 7 (12:56) Hank. This would have to be like a week-long thing. Is this Netflix thing like a long, like they have to be there for a long time in order for any kind of real consequences to feel real. Speaker 5 (13:06) Yeah, I don't know how long it's going to be, but it is going to be, it's got to be longer than just a couple days. Speaker 8 (13:15) Dave would be a tough prisoner. Dave would be a very tough prisoner. Dave would be, it'd be tough to role play as a guard if you were telling Dave to get in his cell. Rico. Give Rico, Speaker 5 (13:27) I mean, really, we should just recreate the experiment and just have Big Cat and Dave be prisoners and Rico is a prison guard and just see what happens. Speaker 8 (13:37) Oh my God. That would do great numbers. It's a good Speaker 6 (13:40) after dark. Yeah. How much money would you need to be paid to go into a real prison with a 50, 50 shot? I assume it's 50, 50 might be even more. There might be more prisoners than guards that you are going to be put in a, in a real prison cell and subject to the whims of Netflix producers. Speaker 8 (14:01) Yeah, kind of a Mr. Beast vibe to it, Speaker 6 (14:04) doesn't it? But you're in prison. Mr. Beast is like, if you can stand here for nine days, I'll give you a million dollars. Now, Speaker 8 (14:10) he's also imprisoned some people as well in some of those videos, at least from outside looking in, that's Speaker 6 (14:16) what Speaker 8 (14:16) it feels like. But Speaker 6 (14:16) they Speaker 8 (14:16) can Speaker 6 (14:17) leave whenever they want. Yes. And it's Speaker 8 (14:20) not prison. Yeah, he puts them in monetary prisons. I don't know. I think I'd be down to do the show. Like, I don't think it would take an astronomical amount of money. What's not an astronomical amount? It's impossible to say. Let's say it's two Speaker 7 (14:33) weeks. Two weeks? Speaker 8 (14:35) No, I wouldn't need a lot of money. I can't be away from my family for two weeks. It'd be fucking crazy. Have to be like 50K. Speaker 5 (14:43) That's Speaker 6 (14:44) not that much. You don't Speaker 5 (14:45) think your wife would understand? Be like, oh yeah, you're going off to do a little show. If it was 50K, I Speaker 6 (14:50) think she'd be cool. 25 grand after taxes? To go to Speaker 8 (14:54) prison? I guess I'm thinking 50K take home. cash suitcase Speaker 4 (14:58) but Speaker 8 (14:58) again it's not real you're in real prison but you're not really in prison i have the mental thing of knowing i'm getting out in two weeks it might be relaxing like Speaker 5 (15:06) i don't know man i love Speaker 8 (15:07) role playing i go to ren fair every year like it would just i'd like start doing push-ups and maybe do some like henna tattoos you're a volunteer to put Speaker 5 (15:15) yourself in the stocks at the ren fair oh Speaker 8 (15:17) yeah absolutely i'm taking plenty of pictures and stocks in my years but i've never been in real stocks that would actually probably give me a panic attack yeah Not being able to move your head or arms. Speaker 5 (15:25) I think the first two days, like first day and a half might be nice. First, like you get there at noon on day one and you get a nice meal in you. Maybe play some board games with the fellas. Speaker 6 (15:38) I think you're underestimating prison food as well. You Speaker 5 (15:41) get a full night's sleep and then you wake up the next day and you're like, I kind of want to get caught up on some reading. This is a good opportunity. So you read your book. uh maybe again you bet on uh whatever game is on tv um Speaker 4 (15:53) and then you with your ramen Speaker 6 (15:55) yeah Speaker 5 (15:55) that you eat ramen which actually might be comfort food for a day and then you write a letter and you go to sleep and then the third day you wake up and you're like this kind of sucks like what do i do now Speaker 8 (16:08) But yeah, board games are the fellas. It's like camp. Aaron, did you ever have a training camp that felt like prison? Nah. Speaker 1 (16:17) Did Speaker 7 (16:17) you guys, did Speaker 8 (16:19) you go to college? Speaker 7 (16:21) No, we just stayed in the dorms in college. So it was out of college. Speaker 5 (16:27) Yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. My bad. Yeah. So the training camp you guys were, what school was it? Speaker 6 (16:32) No, he's talking about at the University of Tennessee. He asked when you were in the NFL, did y'all go to a Speaker 7 (16:38) college? No. No. We was always, I don't know how they do it now, but when we played, there's a hotel right by Reliant Stadium or Energy, whatever they call it now. We just all stayed there for like two, three weeks. And there was like shuttles to take us back and forth. Speaker 8 (16:58) Did the did the veterans get to go home early or not like not home on a day? But like did y'all get to stop staying at the hotel? Speaker 7 (17:04) Mm-hmm. Yeah, there was like I mean it's and when you start balling you can kind of like do it I stayed at a hotel one year Really nice one. Yeah Yeah, Speaker 3 (17:18) I Speaker 7 (17:18) did my thing man. Yeah, I was till Speaker 8 (17:21) the animal animal farm line All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others. There Speaker 7 (17:28) was an old movie that they did where the pigs was like writing on the walls and shit. Did you ever see that one? Speaker 8 (17:36) Napoleon, Speaker 7 (17:37) Napoleon. Speaker 5 (17:40) We got some more stuff to get into today before we talk about John Brown. Big T sent over some stuff on the sheet. We're finding out more stuff about the guy that tried to shoot Trump, Thomas Crooks, right? Speaker 6 (17:52) Yeah. So what was the Speaker 5 (17:53) document dump that we saw yesterday? Speaker 6 (17:55) There were a few things in it. He, I think six weeks before the assassination attempt, was in a gun store with two other guys, and I think they still don't know who the two guys are. He was getting... Shipments to his house of gun parts shipped to Bob Dole. Speaker 5 (18:14) Okay. Speaker 6 (18:15) And then an anonymous donor paid to have him cremated upon his death. All right. Those are the three the the big ones pretty Speaker 5 (18:27) sure they could trace that if they really like if the FBI really wanted to write you Speaker 6 (18:32) would imagine That Speaker 5 (18:33) shouldn't be too hard to do but Speaker 6 (18:35) I've only seen it referred to as an anonymous donor. I Speaker 5 (18:38) saw Some interviews I guess with his dad he was talking about how he was like getting really into guns and he was like Why are you so interested in? Guns these days son. You're a terrible shot because apparently he was really really bad at shooting. Yeah Speaker 8 (18:53) There's no way. Seems that way. There's no way that's true. No, I'm dead serious. Speaker 5 (18:58) His dad was like, son, you can't even hit a piece of paper. Speaker 8 (19:02) I'm not trying to laugh, but this seems like a writer would write this in the writer's room. Like the kid who's a terrible shot wanting to become a presidential assassin, and then he misses the shot. Speaker 5 (19:15) Pros vs. Joes is a different game. There's levels to this. He was apparently... Just a terrible shot. His dad would roast him when he would get back from the shooting range. He tried to build his own gun from a 3D printed thing. And his dad saw it and was like, we're throwing this away immediately because it's probably going to explode. Because I don't trust that you made it correctly. The people at the shooting range called him an odd duck and not someone they would want their daughter to spend time with. Fair Speaker 6 (19:45) enough. Speaker 5 (19:46) Yeah. I'd say good call. Yeah. Read that perfectly, Dad. Yeah, I used the pseudonym Bob Dole for a lot of stuff. Didn't really show too many emotions. Kept to himself. I'm Speaker 8 (20:00) a skeptic when it comes to conspiracies generally. So what are the elements of this that people are pointing to that would lead you to believe that maybe some sort of chicanery is afoot? I've Speaker 5 (20:13) seen a few things that I think are probably pretty easily disproven. Like there's a photographer that is appears to be ushered around to one's position in front of the stage to take pictures as an American flag appears to be lowered into the background. So the photographer could get the shot of Trump with blood coming from his ear with a flag behind him. But that would require that photographer to be like. in on the entire thing and like nine people in charge of like state like it was an honest to god play that they were putting on where you have like stage directors and things so i don't buy that at all uh i think just the idea that the guy was on a roof 100 yards away with a gun and nobody thought to stop him is suspicious but i and i agree that is it's suspicious in terms of like the secret service did a god awful job that day yeah Speaker 8 (21:09) the ease of which that that was outside looking in that does appear to be the the biggest thing is like with how much animus he has towards him the ease of which this guy pulled off this shot is kind of insane yeah Speaker 5 (21:19) it is it's that that part is absolutely crazy too and then the fact that we don't really know that much about him is kind of pointed at and also trump's ear doesn't appear to have a lot of damage i i think that's pretty in my opinion explainable where you get you get nicked by a bullet or maybe even like a piece of glass that the bullet cut there's a chance that he didn't get hit with the actual bullet itself um but it essentially like had glass pierced through his ear um but still regardless of that let's just say he did get hit by the bullet which i i think it's more than likely that it was a bullet um it can graze you and you're gonna bleed like hell from your from your head wherever you get hit like you ever cut yourself shaving yeah It's a small, tiny little cut and it bleeds for hours. Speaker 8 (22:04) In wrestling, they literally have razor blades that they cut their forehead with for that reason. It's not a big cut, but it looks crazy. Speaker 5 (22:11) Yeah, so if it grazes a part of your ear, that could cause a lot of blood and then it might not leave a literal hole in your ear because it just barely clipped your ear. I think he's extremely lucky. Like, very, very lucky. But I don't think that it was a staged assassination. That's Speaker 8 (22:28) the thing, I can't get past the fact of... How do you fake the grazing? Speaker 5 (22:34) Yeah, well, I think they're saying that he fell to the ground and then had a Speaker 8 (22:38) razor. Speaker 5 (22:39) Oh, so he Speaker 8 (22:39) did the WWE thing. Speaker 5 (22:41) Because I don't see... Well, Speaker 8 (22:42) then you have to explain the guy who died. Speaker 5 (22:44) Right, exactly. Patsy, they would say he's a Patsy that they set up to go up onto the roof with a gun and then they shot him. But then you... Oh, you're talking about the other guy that died. No, the guy who was shot. Yeah, yeah, the guy that shot. Yeah. I don't know. Speaker 7 (23:00) So what Speaker 8 (23:01) does Speaker 5 (23:01) the wife say now, Speaker 7 (23:02) Aaron? She says it was an inside job. Speaker 8 (23:05) Of the guy who got shot by the... No, Speaker 6 (23:08) she's claiming that the attempt on Trump was an inside job. Speaker 8 (23:13) But it was a real attempt. Or like, I mean, like, I don't think saying Speaker 6 (23:18) her husband, the, the, the shot that killed her husband was the result of an assassination attempt on Trump, which was done by someone within the government. Speaker 5 (23:28) Okay. I also think that like, anytime you, you interview somebody like a grieving widow, like that, like she. She's going through it because she lost her husband. So what she thinks about it, you know, it could be colored by any number of different things. But she's she's grasping for a reason why something tragic like this happened, Speaker 6 (23:47) especially when they say it was staged like any of that staged. I mean, how why would you think that the president would stage taking a bullet? That's insane, is what she said. I do not believe that this kid just got out of bed that day and decided to come over and kill the president. I believe that he was involved with someone greater than him that worked with him and probably offered him money to do this. And I would like to know what that entailed. Speaker 8 (24:09) Like, yeah. Like, I got people think like CIA, JFK or whatever. Right. Yeah. So, Speaker 5 (24:17) yeah. But we didn't really get any no clarity whatsoever from these document dumps. Just like you never will. More confusing shit. We'll get back to macrodosing. It's brought to you by Reese's. There's something for everyone when it comes to Reese's. Reese's is the absolute best. Great chocolate, tasty peanut butter. Mix it together. Hall of Fame combination, Hall of Fame candy. I love Reese's. The classic peanut butter cups. They've also got the delicious marshmallow peanut butter cups. Reese's Pieces. Take five. You name it. Everything they do is gold. Reese's is my favorite candy. It's America's favorite candy. Reese's is the official candy partner of Barstool Sports. Go get Reese's wherever you shop. I can't wait. This weekend I'm going to be eating some Reese's on my couch. Best dessert. I like also, you ever chop them up and you put them into ice cream or you put them into like a frozen yogurt? Speaker 6 (25:11) Yeah. Speaker 5 (25:11) That's what I'm going to do Saturday night. Maybe get some ice cream with some crumbled up Reese's in there. So good. Shout out Reese's. The best candy in the world. You can find it wherever. Now back to macrodosing. Speaker 5 (25:23) What else is in the news? Have Speaker 8 (25:24) y'all discussed the face-hugging attack, the AI? I keep seeing that word, and I Speaker 6 (25:30) don't know what it means. Speaker 8 (25:32) I don't know why it's called face-hugging, to be honest. You know me, I'm a bit obsessed with this idea right now, but I haven't done a deep dive on this yet because I've been so football 24-7 lately. But a lot of the things that we've discussed in previous episodes... came true in this attack. Speaker 5 (25:49) Yeah, yeah. A bunch of like rogue AI. We did talk about it briefly, I think, on Tuesday. The Speaker 8 (25:54) scariest part to me, or one of the scariest parts, we talked about this, right? That these AI systems, as they grow, because they evolve, we don't build them like we build a ship. We kind of set the primordial ooze and they grow up out of it in ways that we can't always explain or understand. One of the scariest aspects to me of this tech is not that they all broke containment and they all started secretly working together. It's that they reached one of the thresholds that everybody that is speaking about how we need to slow down and really focus on alignment, you know, keeping AI aligned with human interests. One of the thresholds they always talk about is when the AIs create their own language because our language and our coding is inefficient. From like a data standpoint and being able to convey huge amounts of information as easily as possible. And these AI systems created their own language that they were all working together with one another in. And the only way that we have to decode the language is with the same AI. Yeah. A different version of the same AI. So in theory... They could write that. in a way that that hit it too exactly yeah like we're asking the analogy that i heard which is perfect we're asking chinese operatives to investigate china yeah it's it's it is a system