Were America's Founders REALLY Christian...Or Have We Been Lied To? (ft. Tim Barton) | Live Free with Josh Howerton

Live Free with Josh Howerton - Lakepointe Church

This episode challenges common misconceptions about America's founding, arguing that Christian faith deeply influenced the Founding Fathers. Guest Tim Barton debunks myths using historical evidence, emphasizing the pivotal role of pastors in shaping the nation’s moral and political foundations.

Key takeaways

• Pastors were central to America’s founding, including drafting key documents.
• Founding Fathers like Columbus had strong Christian motivations, not just political or economic ones.
• The idea that America was founded as a secular nation is historically inaccurate.

Transcript preview

Had it not been for pastor's involvement, we wouldn't even had an America to begin with, we wouldn't have had a declaration, we wouldn't have had a constitution, we wouldn't have had a bill of rights. The strategy is, rewrite the past to control the future. If you're not seeing the spiritual decay of society and you're not motivated to get involved, I don't think you're paying attention. Well, hey, live free nation. and thinking, man, I wish I could be part of something like this. We want to invite you to take a simple next step, and that is join us for church online. Every weekend, we stream our services live on YouTube, Facebook, and our church online platform, and it's more than just watching a service. They are a live host in the chat, prayer teams ready to stand with you and people all around the world worshiping together in real time. And so whether you're exploring the faith, coming back to church or just looking for a place to start, church online is a great is doing here at Lake Point. We would love to see you in the chat this weekend and now enjoy the podcast. Well hey live free nation welcome to a very special 250th anniversary of the birth of our nation episode of live free. The Bible says blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord and you have been lied to immensely about the degree to which that has been true of our nation. So we're about to deprogram you from the Matrix and debunk six very specific lies with the help of our mind-blowing guest Tim Barton. Now if you could do this, if you could like, comment, and share this episode, that helps us know that the extra time and effort that we put into bonus episodes is worth it. So like, comment, especially on YouTube and share it. That helps us know it's worth it. And then I've just been informed that 47% of our live-free listeners are not subscribed to the pod. That also helps us tremendously. So click the little subscribe button. Happy Independence Day week and enjoy the pod. Tim Barton, welcome back. Hey you are at least my first repeat guest on live free. Wow. First one. Come on let's go. Okay so here's what this is. This is we're gonna release this podcast the week of Independence Day. Come on. America 250th anniversary of our nation last time you were on we totally nerdy. So long. It was a role but I'll be honest that episode had one of the longest tales of any episode we've ever done. Like still to this day. We're one of the one of the ones that people I just saw that this has been amazing. Praise Scott. Yeah, it's been incredible. I know man. So here's what we're gonna do. This is gonna be a really interesting pod. We're essentially gonna have you debunk seven myths that guys like me who grew up in normal American school systems and college programs that we got programmed about our nation and then we're just gonna have you deprogrammus. Let's kick this pig. Yes dude, I love it. Okay. Now I wanted to say in Spanish but it wasn't very good. Now I do want to say this and by the way he didn't ask me to do this we don't get paid to do this I only recommend books that I'm like that book was so dang good I want everybody to read it I found out about this guy because of this book I read it on vacation to Gulf shores for years ago if you go back and I did a pod on the Pope and the death penalty and that's when I was reading this book it's like an old live free episode and dude for real I just want to say it one more time somebody pass this to me and then I think I can't remember who and then I couldn't put this down I read it in three days something like that on vacation and it felt like being deprogrammed from the matrix yeah I'm serious it was I felt like everything I had ever been told about the founding of our nation yes was like a complete lie yeah and and it's just all source material like so again I'm not getting paid for this he didn't ask me to do this I only recommend books and I'm like that was so dang good I wish everybody would read it so thanks to write it. We had different segments and different people we highlighted so we worked together. Which is an interesting journey by the way. Oh bad dude. Working with your dad, somebody's been doing it for 30 or 40 years and you're like, I have an idea and he's like, we don't do it that way and I'm like, but dad there's technology now. You don't have to hand write the draft, but he doesn't totally, but right. It was your journey. Your dad's a legend. So we're going to be, you're going to, you're going to, And then it'll make sense why we got you here. So I'm just going to tell you where we're gone. We're going to start with, these are all things I felt like I picked up in high school. Christopher Columbus was a racist, genocidal colonizer who took consoled slaves. Then we're going to go George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, and most of the founders were Diaz not Christians. Then we're going to throw up a mega viral Katie Couric clip that I felt like took over America for two weeks and respond to America for two weeks and respond to America. secular nation not on Christian principles in any sense. That's a direct quote. I'm very interested to see where you go there. Then we're to go America was built on slavery and I'm having you talk about the 1619 project. Then we're to go the American settlers committed genocide against the Native Americans and stole their land. We may even play a land acknowledgement. Okay. From a stolen land acknowledgement. Just what your Christians think about that kind of thing? Separation to church and state means Christianity and religion must be excluded from public life. And then this one lands on me in particular Christians especially pastors should stay out of politics and the culture wars and you're just gonna rapid fire and that's all we're doing that's all we're doing happy birthday America okay can I tell you one other thing for you yeah so last time you're here I may have you edit this out I don't know if I'm allowed to say this publicly so in a couple weeks I'm going on What is that? A heart shield Bible. That's a heart shield Bible. Will you tell the story real quick? Yeah, it's from World War II. The Gideon's partnered with the US military during World War II to make sure every soldier could have a Bible. But for some of those that were deploying to some really rough areas, they made unique vibles. It was called the heart shield Bible. They put a steel plate on the front of it. And the idea was you drop it in your chest pocket and it would keep your... boom, boom, done. And it would keep your heart safe. And really it could stop and did stop bullets that there's actually actually I posted about this on Facebook and there were two people whose grandfather had one of these in the war totally specifically said and what I'm posted a picture come on what I'm posted a picture where it stopped a bullet come on while their grandfathers wearing it yeah but the fact that the government partners with the Gideon's who do the pocket New Testament usually you know with Psalms and Proverbs in the back of it remarkable and that wasn't controversial at the time it was like no you need God's also you protect your heart with a steel plate so super cool well and the president like had a letter encouraging correct soldiers to read the Bible fDR has an acknowledgement in the front encouraging everybody to carry this with you to keep you safe spiritually and physically that's right yeah so anyway when I go on I seriously feel like we're deep programming people from the Matrix. So I'm just gonna shoot these at you. Let's start right here. Tim Barton, Christopher Columbus, instrumental in the founding of our nation. Yeah. We should tear down all the statues. We should get rid of Columbus day, it's evil. Nope. Okay, well you're tipping your hat. Because, Tim Barton, Christopher Columbus was a racist, genocidal colonizer who took and sold slaves. He should not be celebrated. What's that you? Yeah, so when I hear this claim, I like to ask questions, I like to ask questions, I like to ask questions, I like to ask questions, where somebody's coming from and how much they know because usually you deal with either the intentional or the ignorant. We deal with that and theology too. But it makes a difference, right? Because Jesus talks about that you don't cast your purp-for swine. Like you go somewhere, there's times when you shake the dust off your feet and keep moving, but there's times you gotta dig in, right? There's times, no, I don't care if they stone to me and threw me out of the city. I'm walking back in, I'm not done. And you need to have some spiritual wisdom to differentiate who you're dealing with you're dealing with you're dealing with. And so, and so, and so, and so, and so I'm going to who just has no idea what they're talking about and maybe they have a good heart and have bad information or is it someone who's like no they're just full-on drinking Marxist Koolaid and so you have a different conversation in those scenarios so I always want to ask some basic questions to see where I'm the first one I'm the first one here that's what I've been told yeah so which voyage did Columbus enslave the natives I don't know I got know he made four didn't he right okay so what was so what was the difference between the four and I asked most people didn't even know there was four. So you're just the most brilliant pastor. But most people don't know there was four. The first one was a voyage focused on attending for exploration. And really he was trying to find a faster route to get over right to Asia, eastern Asia, because at the time you'd had the Silk Road and you have the Ottoman Empire that comes in and they're attacking people until they can't use the land route anymore. And so how do we do this? And Italians were some of the best mariners there were. These are. These are incredible people. they're having to go north or south like either around Europe and Asia or south around Africa and he's like guys there's a better way we know it's a globe now he was correct in a globe he was off big time and dimensions didn't know there's another continent there and in fairness some people would say but like the Vikings other people have discovered right like kind of the Canada area some argue they made it as far as Minnesota. that is the connection i believe that in a fill let's go ahead sorry so uh... that the background of columbus is he's looking for a shorter route but the reason it matters is he's wanting to open up a trade route because he thinks we can make money by opening a trade route so it matters because when he arrives he's not on an emission of conquest he's trying to establish trade this makes a difference because if you're a salesman right we can think about like different people that are in sales When he shows up the first tribe he met were the Taiano tribe he actually writes back to the king and queen because Ferdinand and Isabella are the ones that actually fund the expedition and they called it a meager expedition because there's only three ships the Neina Pena Santa Maria that go and he writes back and says you will be so impressed by what we found these are some of the best people we have ever discovered and you will soon rejoice that they will be part of the Christian faith. how thoroughly Christian that dude was. Yeah. And that actually direct source quotes from your book, the guy actually had a missionary impulse. So anyway, you go ahead. Keep going. Well, why don't you read this? Because then I'll tell them where the story. Okay, dude. So I pulled four quotes from your book that blew me away. Because dude, I did. I grew up seeing all the statues getting torn down and the protests and you know, like, you know, like, hey, guys, we shouldn't celebrate too much. But if you don't know. But if you don't know the story, Okay, so that's what happened to me. So I read stuff like this. All right, this is a direct quote through your book. As an avid student of the Bible, Columbus came to believe it was possible to sail across the Atlantic to reach people in Asia who had never heard of the God who is, and then you quote him. Quote, this is a direct quote from Christopher Columbus, the God who is the hope of all the ends of the earth and the far the seas. He's quoting, he's, in a letter to the Queen. This is what like she apparently he's corresponding over here you'll give me you know you probably give me some context here and he's addressing sort of the hey man what you do it's like actually really dangerous and this is dude I think I'd love this guy this is what he says no one should be afraid to take on any enterprise in the name of our Savior if it is right and if the purpose is purely for his holy service okay and then I'll give you one last one this is of the Crusades. I didn't know like that was same time period as the Crusades. So you'll get into that in a second. So that's fascinating. I may make you talk about the Crusades. We'll see it in a second. But he says this so what some people apparently said about him was dude he just want to do conquest and see all these people as well and that kind of thing. So this is what he says. You write this book, he's, you write this work, this work, which was called the book of prophecies, contains scores and that kind of of the Christian gospel in distant lands what an appropriate project for someone named Christopher which means the Christbearer yeah okay so and I may have you talk about the Crusades thing but so it's all this is speaking to who he is his motives but I because didn't he do some pretty bad stuff so that's valid right so you're looking going now wait a second so I don't care if he's a Christian what did he do yeah like you could say good things and Right, you actually are more defined by your actions and behavior than by your words. So it's clear from his letters, his writings, that he is coming from a Christian perspective, but what do he do? So he arrives, and again, this is where he writes the king and queen that he met the Tiano tribe. And he says, these people are amazing. Well, they have three ships. One of the ships ends up running a ground. More details than that, but for the sake of the brevity, he has to leave part of his crew behind. that's high-ino say no problem like there's this place over here fresh water running down so Columbus's men they build this little fort they're gonna leave them in behind and this isn't Columbus own writings where he says before they leave they told us hey just so you know we're not the only tribe here there's another tribe they're not nice people and Columbus very skeptically is like I don't think it's correct because they told me like they eat other people that's crazy dude this was interesting nobody eat other people like that's crazy So he leaves men behind, goes back, tells the King and Queen. And again, the letter already where he says that this is the most incredible people. Again, he's going for exploration to set up a trade center. And he's like, we've found an island. Nobody's all, like we're gonna have free trade, it's us, we're gonna be the best thing ever. He goes back to the King and Queen, they're like, that's amazing. Nobody's there. Okay, well, we're sending over so 17 ships, 12 men. like this is in his writings he says I think you're sending some bad people many of the men that are coming this is actual's quote are not befitting the title Christian fast Columbus said this to the Queen okay keep going right he's like I don't I don't think this is good like some of the people coming that's not who we want to represent us yeah so they go over well this time it was not just a voyage of a voyage of colonization because they're going to establish a colony because he's where they're going to trade from That word now in our culture, especially in progressive circles, has a negative connotation. You're not saying it, you're just saying they're establishing a colony. Right. They were not going to take over and make everybody like them. They were going to set up a trading post. So they're going to build a little community. And in the community, they're going to have trade with the natives. And again, they're on this, they found the series of islands that are uninhabited by any other Europeans. And what the goal of what the goal of what they wanted was trade. Our ships can come in. We can from like our little fort our communities we can gather all the trade goods will come we'll swap we'll load up we'll go so they're not thinking colonization the way it's used today they're gonna build a colony for trade purposes but as they go to build a Columbus already knows like some of these dudes aren't good people they go to another like a Jason island he says we need to go back to the original island to get the men we left behind he goes the original island and when he arrives he finds that the fort that they had built is now to the ground and he begins seeing the bodies of some of the men on the beach and some of his guys or the other the natives some of his men's bodies and as he goes closer they're all dead yeah and he goes closer and realizes they've been cannibalized yeah they've been eaten and he's like what just happened so he finds some of the tyano tribe and they're like we told you like there's another because at first he's like what did you do and they're like it was not us we told you're as well that they kidnapped some of our women and children and we just we aren't strong enough to get them back and Columbus is like you tell me where they are I will solve this problem the Taino joined Columbus is the big deal because when people talk about Columbus committed genocide first of all was not genocide when the group of natives that he goes to war with already attacked and ate some of his men right like hey man here's the deal when if genocide is not genocide is not genocide is not an actual military conflict but if you pick who's bigger, tougher, and stronger than you and you get your butt kicked? That's not their fault that you suck at war. And by the way, this can be applied to many modern things happening right now. Losing a war you started right now. Losing a war you started is not genocide. Yeah, let's just get that other way. Currently applicable, I see that I see connections. But this is where he ends up, they continue on as the settlements going on, but they find were one of these. By the village, the village they were going after the other, that was there they were known as the caribbean comes from they were also known as the canibs which is where the word canable comes from I do I didn't know that it's the original word canable okay so Columbus goes with the Tiano and by the way the time are like can we please come with you like the guys with the boom boom sticks we're in let's go with you so they go and they do in this village they win this conflict and so for the survivors who were not killed from the carib tribe, Columbus does say, okay, so all the survivors, they can be enslaved. And that's what people are like, he enslaved him. This is literally in the 1400s, where there's only two options at the end of a war for the losing side. You die or your slaves. That was the only option. So he's not doing something uniquely evil. He's literally doing what the entire world is doing. And this is not like justifying a moral standpoint, but this is the reality. This is the world they live in. This is the only option. for voyages, he never approved the enslavement of anybody who was not captured and justified war. That's really important. Say that one more time. He never approved the enslavement of anybody who was not captured and justified war. Fascinating. Okay? So, bro, which is the exact, like high school, the vibe you always get is this guy just rolls in, starts slaughtering innocent natives, taking sled, you know, just for personal wealth and acquisition and gain. It's like, this is why that's why that's just blew that's why that book just blew me away. literally like deprogramming from the matrix. And by the way, all the stuff were saying, this is from original documents. Yeah. Right, like the people that were there, so Columbus also had a couple of medical doctors with them and they also kept journals. So like from the second voyage when they attacked the Caribbus tribe, the tribe, when they conquered this village, they say there was 49 huts in the outside. And they were like, that's curious, why are they locked from the outside? So they go and they begin to unlock and open these huts. And there were women were women on the inside. And there were women on the inside. And there were women on the inside. And there were women on the inside. And by the way the doctors there like this is in their journal they said the women were terrified when they saw us because like we don't know who you are but when they found out we were not going to eat them who they were well relieved and they told us that the kareba men treat them with such cruelty that could scarcely be imagined that they eat the children that they bear to them. Oh and these are the quote-unquote genocided. So literally they were kidnapping women, they were impregnating them, which is how that process goes, not voluntarily, and then they eat the children. And people like, I can't believe they're coming to genocide. I'm like, you have no idea what the story is. Now, to jump ahead a little bit, so that's the second voyage, the colonies being set up, he goes back and he starts petitioned, I would love to be governor. Like, can I be please be governor? And he petitions and finally they are like, I don't think it's a good idea, I don't think it's a good idea. for the Spanish and our colony is a Spanish colony I don't think they really look favorably on it he petitions enough they're like fine you can be governor he goes back he's the governor he's not really a good governor but partly one of the many problems he had he was an explorer at heart so he sets up these rules in place and part of the rules were you cannot steal anything from the natives they did not value gold so men were like we want your gold and they don't really care about it and he says you in exchange for the gold. So like literally when people like he's just doing this to get wealthy there's so much more to that story which not that I address in this point. So he has gone a lot discovering on his third voyage over there. He comes back to find out that some of these Spaniards have begun enslaving sexually assaulting and even murdering some of these natives. Which he warned against as you said earlier. Hey man you're sending some bad dudes. Right. Well now he's the governor and he already put laws in place. actually showed respect and decency for the natives. Because he was a Christian man. He finds out what they did and he gets the Spaniards that did it and he publicly executes them. Wow. Now you can imagine if you're in a Spanish colony and you publicly execute Spanish people and they're like who do you think you're Italian. That's right. So they lead a revolt, they actually imprisoned him and put him in chains. They send him back before the king and queen, he did all these evil things. It was made by the men that had done that had done those very things. things that had put him in chains and sent him back, which is also one of like the oldest tricks of the book you accuse your opponent of what you're guilty of. Right? You're like, you're not going to believe how bad this guy is. He did, well that's what they send to the king and queen. He gets back and tells a story and they're like, oh, so they exonerate him, they pardon them of all those crimes, but they're like, hey, so it's better if you're not governor's not governor, because we're like, we're like, he's a perfect guy because everyone's a center in need of a savior. He's just not guilty of the send you accusing him today. And this is also when his last voyage was actually a shipwreck. The Spaniards from those colonies are so frustrated with them. He sends word like people on canoe, hey we have a ship wreck, can you send a ship and recover us? And they like neglect them. They're like nope. We don't like you're on your own. So he's like shipwreck. I want to say I don't remember the details. I don't remember the details, I think it's like a year and I think it's like a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year there for a long time praying to be rescued. He's finally rescued, gets back home and ends up dying because of some of the hardness of what he dealt with. But his whole life narrative is so different than what people think today. In fact, even this idea that he really wanted to get wealthy is so misconstrued. I'm going to read a quote and then we'll move on our second myth. But, again, we don't have time to talk about all the awesome stuff. So I didn't know that part of the Crusades were going on at the same time as Columbus. Do you have. Do you have the. Do you have the. Do you have the. I've got it right here so so by the way another myth for another podcast is oh look how evil the Christians were for the Crusades they just attacked the Muslims right you know and you I just we don't have time to go into this but essentially no that was that was largely defensive wars reclaiming after like I think you said like 300 300 over 500 yeah unprovoked Islamic attacks on these so anyway it's around that time that the Crusades are happening the Christians are take Jerusalem. Correct. Okay I'm getting this right. So then so what people say about Columbus is he just wanted golden money. So then this is a quote, okay? He requested to the Queen? Yes. Okay, I'm gonna read it that all the prophets of this my enterprise may be sent in the conquest of Jerusalem. In other words, I don't want any of the money that have come from any of my explorations. Would you please give it to those guys that are trying to retake the lands that were taken by the Muslims? Is that right? Yes. Yes, is that right? Yes, some profit but he said everything above because he was getting and I don't know it was like 10% he said everything above 10% that like I have he said can we take everything we're making and can we send this to go reclaim Jerusalem for Christ. Jeez okay so there you go yeah so myth number one like it's totally nonsense yeah totally nonsense okay now this is the one we're gonna do our best to be brief on this because this is one that is arguably the biggest or most prominent one. Tim Barton, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, and most of the founders. They were obviously deists. They did not want, they did not found, they did not found, and did not want our nation, founded on or propagating Christian principles because obviously Tim, all these guys were deists. True false. I totally fault. I don't have enough time to go through all of this and honestly like we could do the entire pod on this one. even know if we're going to all the questions you have. I'm so sorry. Let me start with this one. This one, and actually Trinity, I think, I think we have pictures. Can you go to the maxims of George Washington of George Washington? And can you put up the maxims of George Washington? So there's a guy named Schroeder who actually did the collection. When they did the first volume of Washington's writings, it was a guy named 1855, that's a political and social moral and religious maxims of George Washington. So they said, here are the most significant things George Washington ever said or dead. Trinity, go to the next one. So you see section 4 is Christianity. Now the fourth section was actually the religious maxims. So we already are identifying his religious maxims, that's Christianity, right? That's what we're talking about. But when you start this, it's actually, all of these things that you see there are introductions to George Washington based on people first line, Trinity, click that next one for me. It says underlined underneath that. When you click on that button for me, Trinity, for that, I would say, so Jaym. Sewall,