Can a Christian LOSE Their Salvation? | Live Free with Josh Howerton

Live Free with Josh Howerton - Lakepointe Church

This episode of Live Free with Josh Howerton explores the question of whether a Christian can lose their salvation, delving into theological perspectives, the

Key takeaways

• Saving faith requires knowledge, assent, and trust in Jesus.
• The perseverance of the saints is a key theological concept, asserting that genuine believers cannot lose their salvation.
• Faith is not about the strength of one's belief, but the object of one's faith, which is Jesus.
• The Bible assures that nothing can separate believers from the love of God.
• The visible church includes both believers and non-believers, and not everyone in the church is eternally saved.
• The righteous fall seven times but rise again, showing that perseverance is a sign of genuine faith.

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:00) Can a Christian lose their salvation? John 10, 26 to 29, I sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me and I give eternal life to them and they will never perish. The sign that you've been married to Christ isn't that you never fall is that you keep getting back up and trying again. Well, hey, Live Free Nation, before we jump into the episode, this podcast is recorded right here at Lakepoint Church in Dallas, Texas. But the Live Free Nation is spread all over the country and all around. the world so if you've been watching and thinking man i wish i could be part of something like this we want to invite you to take a simple next step and that is join us for church online every weekend we stream our services live on youtube facebook and our church online platform and it's more than just watching a service there are a live host in the chat prayer teams ready to stand with you and people all around the world worshiping together in real time and so whether you're exploring the faith coming back to church or just looking for a place to start church online is a great way to jump in and experience what God is doing here at Lake Point. We would love to see you in the chat this weekend. And now, enjoy the podcast. Well, hey, welcome back to another episode of the Live Free podcast. My name is Carlos Arrasso, and today I have the pleasure and the joy of being here with Pastor Josh Howerton and Pastor Paul Cunningham. Sleep Deprived. Sleep Deprived. Who just came from the airport. Hey, welcome. Thanks for joining us today. Oh, dude. We changed our flight to get back for Live Free. Yes, we did. Now, Carlos, I was recently made aware that you speak French. Carlos How do you say Let's kick it How do you How do you say Let's kick this big In French First of all Let me give you a caveat All right I learn how to speak it In middle school Okay So it's very rusty Yes let's hear it Let's kick this big in French I got to figure out How to say pig Oh geez Holy cow Breaking news Okay Dude That actress Blonde girl actress famous actress stabbed literally today Reese Witherspoon No it's with a knife Got him Yeah you got him Hey guys thanks for joining us today This is the second time this week He's done that where I had forgotten that he was going to do it And I was literally intrigued And I was like oh yeah this is what he's doing I saw something was off I'm like literally like a second after he said, Reese, I'm like, stop. Yes. That's my favorite joke. And I got them on step for three. And I was like, I'm going to get Carlos on the pod. That is hilarious. I've forgotten you said you were going to do this. I was really intrigued. I'm like, what just happened? I know. The lady in the movie that we just, you know, this weekend at the movie. I don't know, man. Hey, don't know a coup de pié as chump. Oh, wow. That's not going to fit on a hat. All right. What are we talking about today? Hey man, today we're going to have a great episode. We are going to be asking, can a Christian lose their salvation? And honestly, how do you know if you have a saving faith versus perhaps a fake faith or a superficial faith? We're going to be reacting to a James Talarico, Paul's favorite person, to react to advocating for reparations for slavery, quote, in his word, because of his faith tradition. That's right. And should Christian support reparations for slavery? And then we're going to be also sharing a bunch of great gold nuggets on what does it mean? into the sermon regarding faith. Faith. Faith. By the way, just wrapped up week number three of At the Movies. That's exactly right. Absolutely insane. I haven't seen numbers yet for this weekend through the first two weeks. Guys, we averaged filling 38,000 people into the campuses. It's nuts. Hundreds and hundreds of salvations. It's, I've never seen anything like it. That's awesome. Listen, we ain't this good. We ain't this good. We ain't this good. We got one more week. So if you have a lot of, haven't come yet, or if you have made it in the past three weeks, we'd love to see you in here one more week. Also, after that, by the way, we're excited because we're going to be launching a new sermon series on fighting the good fight. Fight the good fight. Honestly, here's all this is. You're all about fighting. There's a lot of verses about fighting. There's a lot of verses about fighting. There's a lot of verse about fighting. Honestly, what we're doing is we're going to be studying the book of Second Timothy. At Lake Point, what we decided on this front of this year is the whole theme of the year was this is the year of disciplemakership. So why Second Timothy? Literally the whole book is just an older guy, disciple and a younger guy. So I was like, you're a discipleship. Let's preach to a book about that. And he gives a command to this young disciple, fight the good fight of faith. So there you go. Sermon series title, Fight the Good Fight. You guys were just in Wyoming. I was actually just in Michigan and lots of living nation all literally all over the place. So shout out to everybody joining. If you are ever in the DFW area and you want to come visit, we'd love to say hi so come say hi we got a gift for you as well we do a giveaway every single week so if you're on youtube or spotify go ahead and drop the word hat on the comments and we will be selecting several winners as well here's a fun one for you and then we'll actually start talking about the bible up in jackson hole i mean it was just like everywhere we went it's like a live free listeners one of the guys one of the owners of king ranch in texas is a live free listener so i forget your name but shout out that was awesome to meet you so he grabbed me in a the girliest coffee show up in all of Jackson Hole. Just took a good coffee, though. Persephone was pretty good. It was pretty good. Okay. Can I do a Project Hail Mary thing? Yes. Okay. Now, I know you did a little of this, but I wasn't in this episode, and I'm going to do it better. He's like, I was going to say, he's like, hey, I know you did it, but I'm going to do it better. No, for real. I'm sure you will. So, no, that's a joke. That's a total joke, Rolos. I was going to say it if you wouldn't. But go ahead. Stop, dude. That's a joke. So, okay, I'm on the plane today. and literally the three seats next to me, they're all watching Project Hail Mary. Bro, there is layers in Project Hail Mary. Okay, so here's my thesis. Project Hail Mary is a Christian movie. Oh, wow. Now watch this. I like that idea. Watch this. Check this out. Okay. So our Catholic friends are going to love this. So I want to show you some stuff, this like, you watch the movie and you don't realize what just happened to you. So let me give this to you. Okay. So if you haven't seen Project Hail Mary, let me just connect some dots real quick. So the universe is decaying. That sounds a little familiar, Genesis 3 on. The universe is decaying. And humanity throws up a last chance prayer. And the name of the ship that is dispatched to solve the decay of the universe is the Hail Mary. So you got it right there, okay? Now, next one, the main character that's sent to be the savior of the world, Carlos. If you look real close on the guy's little patch, his name is Grace. Grace, that's right. So now what do we have? we got Hail Mary, full of grace. Catholics are going to love this one. Okay, now, so far it's like, well, duh, man. Okay, duh, that's like they named the movie that. Okay, so you go a layer deeper. I'm going to go three layers deeper. You go later deeper. So when he gets up there, who's he meet? He meets Rocky. Okay, now, when you hear that you're like, what's that even mean? For our uninitiated Bible readers, when Jesus establishes the church, he gives Peter, the, remember, our Catholic friends that we disagree with, think was the first pope. Right? And they're like, what's Jesus calling? He says, I tell you you are Peter, which means rock. Peter is the rock. So now what you have is you have these two guys, next one, who do you have saving the universe together? You have a grace and rocky. You have a Christ figure and you have a Peter figure. But oh wait, there's more. Okay. So now, in Catholic theology in particular, what you have is you have Jesus and Peter, working together as the head of the church to save the world. If, lest you think I'm making something out of nothing, Paul Cunningham. If you look really close, I watch this with the kids. If you look really close, there is one frame in the entire movie. We're just really fast at through a quick scene because they're like, we're going to save the world. Check out what the hat says. Look real close. Oh. Rocky's hat says Savior of the universe. I hadn't seen that one. Bro, it says Savior of the universe. But wait, there's even more. Now, how are they going to save the universe? you literally have a line in the movie where grace the Christ figure he says so just so I'm clear you're asking me right now to and he uses the phrase sacrifice myself in order to be the savior of the universe but wait there's even more okay now this is the last layer all right little theology in Genesis three after the fall of humanity God comes to Eve remember okay Eve, bookmark that in your head, and he tells Eve, hey, you are going to be the, you're going to launch the offspring out of you, and one of your offspring is going to come, going to be the serpent crusher. This is going to be the savior of the universe. So in Genesis 3, who is Eve, Eve is the one watch, who will launch the rescue mission, but she will not complete the rescue mission. Paul and Carlos, in Project Hail Mary, what is the name of the female scientist who is the one that launches the mission to save the world, but is not the one who actually accomplishes the mission? Well, let me show you. Her name is Evil. Oh, Eva. Ladies and gentlemen, Project Hail Mary is a Christian movie. Wow, that's a, there it was. Paul totally disagrees, but you know. Hey, just because I did that one time on Home Alone and you came back and proved that. I disagree on Home Alone one time and the rest of my life. I'm known as a skeptic. Yeah, well, that was great. That was great. There's no way. That's just, there's no way. You know what's interesting? Because I researched this before the director was asked about it. And he said 100% not. Like he did not do any of those things on purpose to my understanding. That's what. So here's my theory on that then. I know you got something. Go ahead. Actually, it's not really a theory. It's tongue-in-cheek joke. God has put an eternity in the hearts of men. Yes. So every great story whispers his name. There you go. There you go, man. That's amazing. Hey, if you are here and you have not downloaded our Lake Point app, you can find our daily Bible reading plan plus a early release of this episode. Text the word app to 20411 or go to Apple or Google Play Store. Hey, nice hat. Bro, you got the new live-free hat. I needed something that was more of my vibe. That's coming soon. That's coming soon. Livefree. dot shop or text the word how to do zero for one as well pastor josh i have a question for you i will allow week three about the movies i am very intrigued and i really want to know i've been waiting for this my whole week okay why did i make it to the sermon a lot a lot mad so this was honestly this may have been this week and next week were my two favorites of the series this one the whole deal it was about faith the movie that we use this illustration by the way we do not preach movies we use movies to illustrate biblical truths so what we're doing the movie was uh the young woman of the sea, which I had never seen before, by the way. It's fantastic. Bro, it's honestly, amazing movie. It's great. Like, that's one of those movies I've never even heard of. And I was like, that was an amazing movie. So it was all about faith. Okay, so, and by the way, I got this outline from Craig Rochelle, but it really highlights four things, four types of faith. And when you look in the Bible there, you start to see these themes of four specific types of faith. Honestly, any disciple, you're going to need these types of faith in order to walk with Jesus and fulfill the good works that you create in advance for you to accomplish. So what you got is, the four were the faith to start small, do not despise the day of small beginnings. Number two, the faith to face opposition. Number three, the faith to endure when it hurts. Number four, the faith to finish what God started. Okay. Now, what I really want, like, honestly, man, the limitation on any of that at the movie stuff is it's just like there's so much I want to get in. So like, let me just do a couple theological things. that I wish we had time to do, that are just, they're good for the soul of a disciple. Number one, it's really, theologians do this a lot in church history where they'll define what saving faith is. And this is really important. I'm going to use Latin words. I think this is originally Augustine, Noticius, Fidusia. I think it's originally Augustine. You can look it up. But theologians historically, what they've noticed is that in the Bible, you have, you clearly have types of faith that are not saving faith. In fact, we're coming to this in a second when we talk about whether or not you can lose your salvation. The linchpin of the question that Paul's going to deep dive on here in a second is you can't read the Bible. There is no way to read the Bible without the reality of some people have faith in some way and are not finally saved. So then the question that raises is how is that possible? Well, it all boils down to your definition of the word faith. What does faith mean? So let me just do this real quick. Historically, theologians have said that there are three aspects of saving faith and that for someone to have what theologians refer to as a salvific faith, man, really all three have to be present. Okay? So here's what you got. The Latin words are noticia, a census, and fiduciia. This is like super helpful. All right. Noticia, a census, and fiducius. So noticia, it just means knowledge. so where we get the word knowledge. So this is your awareness of a fact. Okay? Like, you know, Lake Point Church is in Dallas, Texas. That's a fact. It's your awareness of a, I would say it like this, awareness of a claim. Okay, a census is assent. I'm not just aware of that claim. I agree that that claim is true. So notitia and a sensius, uh, census. And then theologians say there's a third aspect of faith, and unless you have this third aspect of faith, you do not have a saving faith. And the third aspect of faith is fiduciia, and it just means trust. Okay, so now think about what you got. You got noticia. I am aware of a fact. A census, I agree with a fact. Feducia, I place the entire weight of my life on that fact. I trust that fact, okay? Now, I'll just do this real quick, and you guys can riff on this if you want to add anything, and then I want to do a couple other things. What's interesting is if you read your New Testament, you're going to notice that there are all three categories of people. All right. So, for instance, you got Judas, and I may talk about this here in a second, we get to loss of salvation stuff. Judas had noticia. He was aware of Jesus claimed to be Lord. He did not have assent or trust. Judas never affirms the Lordship of Jesus. In fact, he strikingly goes out of his way to avoid affirming the Lordship of Jesus. So he had not a census or fiduciia. But honestly, the example of someone who has knowledge and dissent but not trust, demons. Yes. So the book of James says that even the demons believe and they shudder. They shudder. So demons, they're aware of Jesus claimed to be Lord. Number two, they agree that Jesus is Lord, but they do not have fiduciate. They don't place the weight of their trust in that. Okay. So demons. And then the example of saving faith, Noticia, Assensis, fiduciia, is Peter or any converted person. And that's somebody who says this. I know that you say your Lord. I agree that you are Lord. And I will follow you unto my death because I trust that my Lord can save me and raise me from the dead. That is saving faith. Now we'll just say this, dude, being a pastor in the Bible Belt, you got a ton of people. who they have knowledge and they even have agreement, but very frankly, they do not live their lives in obedience because they do not trust the lordship of Jesus. And to that, I would just give a warning. Two-thirds faith will send you to hell. Yes. That's a very important thing to be aware of. Anything you want to riff on there before I just keep going? Yeah, I think in 2023, there was a poll that was made that found that 66% of Americans claim to be Christian. In 2020. In 2023. That's right. So that's literally like two-thirds of our country claiming to follow Jesus and put their trust in Jesus. Now, what you just said makes a lot of sense because especially, you know, a lot of people that are very familiar, especially in this country with Christianity with the Bible, they'll say things like, man, I believe in God. But like you said, like even the demons believe in God. Actually, demons theology is probably better than your theology and mine. Definitely. They have that intellectual assent, assent and noticia. But they don't put their trust in Jesus. So you've got to be careful. It's not enough to believe in God. You have to actually know who he is. Some people would say, yeah, well, my parents have faith. Therefore, I'm a Christian. Well, the Bible says God has children. It doesn't say he has grandchildren. Your parents' faith is great that they have it. You need to make your faith your own. People would say, well, I was born in the Bible Belt. I was born in a Christian home. That's great that you were born there. You need to be born again. That's what Jesus said. Well, I have a cross on my house. I have a cross on my neck. Well, you need to carry that cross on your back. Is what Jesus is deny yourself. Follow me and be my disciple. And then people would say, well, I'm really familiar with the scriptures. I actually know a lot of theology. I actually been to Bible school and I have a lot of degrees in theology. Therefore, I'm a Christian. Yeah, but are you familiar with the author? You know the Holy Spirit. Do you, does the things that grieve the Holy Spirit grieve your heart as well? Are you led not by more your emotions, but by what the Holy Spirit wants you to do? And so we live right now in a time where it seems like also Christianity has permeated the culture. And there's a lot that is really good about it. A lot of things that are really good about Christianity permitting the culture. But even more important than that is whether Christianity has permeated your soul. And that is where you get the three types of faith as well. And I think that's important for people to know. It's so good. Yes, man. Amen. Just one encouragement. Like you said, all three are essential to have saving faith. But I will say once you have all three, I think you need to know that the determining thing and the most important thing is actually not the third factor, the trust. And here's what I mean. Just follow me for a second. Because I just know people that have, even though they're genuine believers, they've genuinely been saved, they have moments of doubt or moments where they just don't have complete trust in God. They have some faith, but not total, like, not total faith. They're just having kind of wavering in their doubt and their emotions and everything. And so we're not going to show the video to save time, but a few weeks ago I shared in our last podcast, I did a zip line. And I do not like zip lines. And I had all these aspects of faith that you mentioned. I knew that the cable and that my harness could hold way more weights than I weigh. So I had a knowledge of it. I assented, I agreed that it could hold me. But you didn't actually see that third part, that trust, until I was going to put my weight on it and go across. But here's the reality. Once I start going across, do you think I'm just like, I was like, oh, yay, this is awesome? No, if you actually watch me, I'm like holding on for dear life. And like my wife says, baby, I love you. I don't even look at her. I can't. I'm so scared because it's like 200, 250 feet in the air. And like I'm just going to my mind of like these images of me all of a sudden just falling. in that moment, what was holding me up there? It wasn't me. That's right. It was the reality of that number one thing, that it was strong enough to hold me. That was the most important thing in that moment. The reason I say is you have to have all three to have saving faith. But in the moments where your faith is wavering, the moments where you have some doubts and you're not sure you're scared to take a step of faith, whatever it is. The most important thing right then is not the strength of your faith, but it's the strength of your God. That's right. It's not the strength of the subject of faith. It's the strength of the object of the faith. It's just an encouragement for you if you've ever in the moment. Here's why this is really important, man. So it actually leads into one of the other things. I wish I'd have gotten in the sermon. So there are a lot of people, man, especially if you come, people that come from charismatic backgrounds, I think, who, man, honestly, kind of the vibe they pick up is, man, it's the strength of my faith that saves me or activates something in God. And, dude, you kind of get this vibe of like, man, you know, I think I have like level two faith. And if I had level eight faith, well, then I'd be a little more in with God. and man, maybe you would work more on my behalf. And honestly, I think there's some people who are like, man, is that, if you said, hey, you did the old precludea on a scale of one to ten, how confident are you making it in heaven? Honestly, they'd go, well, I have a level three strength phase, so maybe a three. And if I had level nine faith, they'd be a little nine. So dude, I love this so much. So let me say it and then explain it. The theology of faith in the New Testament is that it is not the strength of your faith that saves you, it is the object of your faith that saves you. Okay. So this is why a lot of people miss what Jesus is doing. When Jesus tells that parable, and he says, hey, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, he says the smallest