The final family
Lateral with Tom Scott
In this episode of Lateral, host Tom Scott guides panelists Sabrina Cruz, Melissa Fernandes, and Taha Khan through a series of lateral thinking puzzles spanning internet infrastructure,
Key takeaways
- The IETF uses a consensus-based decision-making process where engineers hum to gauge group agreement rather than conducting formal votes.
- Rebwa Mohammed Qadir's family was asked to remain in the Erbil Citadel during renovations to preserve its claim as the world's longest continuously inhabited city.
Main topics
- Internet infrastructure and consensus mechanisms
- Historical preservation and urban continuity
Notable quotes
"The internet is actually one large a cappella venue."
Conclusion
The episode delivers a mix of historical trivia and scientific history
Transcript preview
Speaker 2 (0:00) Just before Hannah had a job interview, she re-enacted part of her birthday. Why? The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral. Speaker 2 (0:16) There's been a bit of frustration at Lateral HQ recently, because despite the fact we have subtitles and full transcripts for every episode, some podcast players insist on automatically captioning things. And that means somewhere in the world, a computer and maybe some of our listeners think we're about to discuss literal syncing. So if you're following along with the subtitles and suddenly see the phrase, the penguins demand justice, please know that we did not say that. Although on second thoughts, it is statistically quite likely. Anyway, let's meek today's three ghosts. We start from Answer in Progress, and reeling, apparently, from that introduction. Sabrina Cruz, welcome back to the show. Speaker 4 (0:58) Hello, thank you for having me. Speaker 2 (1:01) Oh, wow, there wasn't even a bit there. I was expecting a bit. You Speaker 4 (1:05) really threw me off my game. I just had to resort to politeness. Speaker 2 (1:09) Also joining us, also from Answer in Progress, Melissa Fernandez. Welcome back to the show. Speaker 3 (1:14) Hello. I'm ready for today. Have Speaker 2 (1:19) I just somehow knocked the bit out of Answer in Progress today? There's normally something going on here. I'm normally bracing to get either insulted or confused, but apparently the shoe's on the other foot. Taha Khan. The, the, the, I never want to say last or third. Last but not least from Answer In Progress, although that does imply one of the other two is least, Taha Khan. Speaker 1 (1:40) Hello, and I'm here as the lawyer for the penguins who will be litigating against the human race. There we go. Speaker 2 (1:48) There's the bit. Welcome back to the show, folks. How has work been going on the channel lately? Speaker 1 (1:55) Oh, it's been rocky, Tom. We're Speaker 4 (1:57) here. Oh yeah, we're uploading Speaker 3 (1:59) left and right. Oh no, Speaker 1 (2:02) talk yourselves up, please. It's been rocky because we are making the best content ever and we have to suffer for our art. Speaker 3 (2:10) Yeah. Speaker 1 (2:11) Right now, we're in the suffering part. Speaker 2 (2:13) Welcome to the suffering zone. For the next roughly 40 minutes, let's confuse both humans and machines equally, beginning with Christian Wong. Oh, I get the bit now. Speaker 4 (2:25) I still don't do. I still can't. What the hell's that penguin doing? Speaker 2 (2:30) Thank you to David Turner for this question. How is the internet controlled by humming? I'll say that again. How is the internet controlled by humming? Speaker 3 (2:40) You know, I learned from this one YouTube video from Cleo, Cleo Abram, Speaker 2 (2:46) that Speaker 3 (2:46) the internet is a cord or a wire in the ocean, okay? Speaker 4 (2:52) We're all Speaker 3 (2:53) connected by this cord in the ocean. So it's underwater. Speaker 1 (2:59) Okay. What? Speaker 3 (3:01) So Speaker 1 (3:01) funny. Okay. Go for it. Go for it, Melissa. Keep going. Speaker 4 (3:06) So Speaker 3 (3:06) the humming is the waves. Speaker 3 (3:11) Has anyone ever Speaker 4 (3:12) described a wave as a hum? Speaker 3 (3:15) Okay, but like the wire, if you were to like touch it, you know when you like touch like a really loud speaker, it hums? Speaker 4 (3:25) I Speaker 3 (3:25) have to imagine if that little wire is holding so much Speaker 4 (3:29) of- Speaker 3 (3:29) It has the whole Speaker 4 (3:29) internet. Speaker 3 (3:30) It has the whole internet. It must be doing a lot. My Speaker 1 (3:34) favorite part about this interaction is how many videos Tom has made about computers. and Melissa just absolutely butchering everything to do with this. It's so funny. Here's the thing. I Speaker 2 (3:47) could just take all the wonderful poetry there that there was, and am I going to be enough of a dick to say, unfortunately, they're fiber optic cables, and so it's light that's being trapped. Is that... Speaker 4 (4:03) Why would you take away this beautiful visual of one cable, actually, Tom? She described a single cable that has all of the internet. Speaker 1 (4:15) Melissa was just like, wow, we're all connected by one cable. Speaker 2 (4:20) I will move you away from the technical side entirely. This is not a mechanical or electrical hum. Speaker 4 (4:28) Okay. Noted. I wonder what it means by controlled, because there are probably different ways to navigate the internet using a bunch of different UI inputs. I feel like people have different ways of interfacing with the internet. One of them could be humming. That seems whimsical. Okay. Speaker 1 (4:46) These are dumb questions, but I think they're important. Speaker 1 (4:50) What is the internet in this context? And then once we establish that, I think we can then try to understand what is controlling the internet. Speaker 4 (5:04) Really systems-based thinking here, Taha. Really taking this like a consultant for some reason. I Speaker 2 (5:10) can answer that question in part, I think, by telling you that this humming happens in conference rooms. Speaker 3 (5:17) Who owns the internet? Speaker 2 (5:19) What is the internet is actually a really good question. Is it the physical infrastructure? Is it the standards around it? Speaker 4 (5:29) Oh, there is that, the consortium, there's that whole thing. They're the ones who did the whole thing. Speaker 2 (5:34) Specifically, the Internet Engineering Task Force. Yes. Speaker 1 (5:38) Okay. Now, this is... Just an idea. Speaker 1 (5:44) These engineers, they decided at some point that they had to have some sort of standard for some frequency-based decision. And they decided, they were like, all right, this is an arbitrary decision. Speaker 1 (6:00) David, start humming. And then David in the conference room was like, I thought you Speaker 2 (6:05) were Speaker 1 (6:05) talking Speaker 2 (6:05) to David, the producer for a moment. Speaker 1 (6:06) It was just the only, it was the only name I had in my head. And David in the conference room was like, and they recorded that and they went, great. That's the frequency we're going to use. I'm not sure what I can say other than no, unfortunately. Speaker 3 (6:22) Great. Wait, what kind of humming is it? Is it like a hum, like a consistent hum? Or is it like a hum to a tune? Speaker 2 (6:29) Yeah, no, it's a human hum. Several humans humming, in fact. Speaker 4 (6:34) The internet is actually one large a cappella venue. Speaker 2 (6:39) That is, it's not that, but that's the kind of noise you might be hearing. It's when Speaker 4 (6:45) Pentatonix took over culture for some reason. Like Pentatonix and Glee, they took over the internet. Speaker 2 (6:52) Honestly, I don't know where this idea came from. It seems to be just this group that does this. But I mean, if someone was suddenly inspired by their acapella group, I could believe it. What does any of that mean? What Speaker 4 (7:06) clue have you given us here? Okay, what is the internet? Are we talking about the standards? Are we talking about the infrastructure? We're talking about the Speaker 2 (7:13) standards and the people who decide them. Speaker 4 (7:16) All right. There are limits around what can be shared on the internet. I remember when they were like, we can share pictures now. We have the power to do this. Was there like, is there a frequency range that's allowed to be on the internet somehow? How Speaker 2 (7:32) would they make that decision? Speaker 4 (7:33) Well, it's like what you're able to write to it, right? It's a digital frequency. I mean, Speaker 2 (7:38) not necessarily just on the frequency, but how might they make any decision? Speaker 4 (7:41) Through song, rap battle. Speaker 1 (7:44) Through... Speaker 1 (7:48) consensus by discussing things. Keep Speaker 4 (7:51) going, Taha. The more you agree, the Speaker 1 (7:55) more Speaker 4 (7:55) you... Speaker 3 (7:59) Is this Speaker 1 (8:00) like the House of Commons and stuff where like the louder the hum the more like because everyone goes I or whatever so like in this one they all hum and so if someone goes it should be we should run the internet this way and everyone goes it's like a rap battle. Yes that is more or less Speaker 2 (8:20) how the IETF makes consensus decisions. No Speaker 4 (8:24) way. They Speaker 2 (8:25) don't do a strict vote count, but they try to work out when there's a clear sense of agreement by having, how loud are people humming? This is how they do, like, this is how they do rap battles. Well, Speaker 4 (8:40) I think that it enables a spectrum, right? Speaker 2 (8:43) It enables one other thing about humming. That is, it's, putting your hands up or clicking your fingers or anything like that. It's anonymous. It's anonymous, you're right, Sabrina. Speaker 4 (8:54) But here's the thing, what if you're really tone deaf? What if you're like, yeah, that's clearly Jimbo over there. Speaker 2 (9:02) In a big group of people, it is, I'm not going to say it's impossible to detect, but it is very difficult to have any sort of record that says this person voted this way, because all you can hear is the hum. Speaker 1 (9:17) Wow, so, but the thing that I, I feel like we're just glazing over the fact that this is exactly how rap battles work. Speaker 1 (9:27) Taha, we will take your question, please. All right. So this question has been sent in by Jack Weinstein. In 2007, authorities began renovating the ancient citadel of Erbil in the Iraqi part of Kurdistan. They relocated 828 families who lived there, except for one, Rebwa Mohammed Qadir and his family. Why were they asked to stay? In 2007, authorities began renovating the ancient citadel of Erbil in the Iraqi part of Kurdistan. They relocated 828 families who lived there, except for one, Rebwa Mohammed Qadir and his family. Why were they asked to stay? Asked to Speaker 2 (10:12) stay is an interesting one because my first thought was it was some long dead ancestor who is entombed there or something, but asked to stay. Speaker 3 (10:21) My first thought was he's Speaker 4 (10:23) working on the renovations. Speaker 4 (10:26) Yeah. Speaker 3 (10:27) Why move him out? Speaker 4 (10:28) He's already there. Speaker 3 (10:30) Yeah, they own the land and they need to tent the land. What's a citadel? Speaker 2 (10:35) Big old castle, I think. Just a castle with a load of stuff around it, I think is the rough definition. Speaker 4 (10:41) Really? Speaker 2 (10:42) I mean, several historians are going to be angry at me for that, but I think citadel feels like big collection of buildings, you know? Speaker 4 (10:49) Okay, so it's not just one