Verwaltungsdigitalisierung - alles schon da

Kommunale Digitalisierung 

In this episode of Kommunale Digitalisierung, host Felix Schmidt interviews Carsten Gabert, President of the Freiburg district, about transf

Key takeaways

• Digitalization failure is primarily caused by organizational culture rather than technical IT limitations.
• Carsten Gabert suggests that leaders should identify 'digitally affine' employees to pilot new tools within teams.

Main topics

• Municipal Digitalization
• Cultural Change in Administration

Notable quotes

Digitalisierung scheitert ja, wenn es scheitert, an der Kultur und selten an der IT.

Conclusion

The episode serves as a pragmatic guide for local government officials

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:00) Transforming your own municipal administration is not that easy. Fortunately, as Carsten Gabbard found out, everything is already there that the administration needs for it. Speaker 1 (0:19) Kommunale Digitalisierung, der Podcast mit Felix Schmidt. Herzlich willkommen zu Folge 60 meines Podcasts zur kommunalen Digitalisierung. Mein Name ist Felix Schmidt. Ich bin dein Moderator und Begleiter auf dem Weg in die kommunale Digitalisierung. Ist es doch gar nicht so schwer, eine träge und analoge Kommunalverwaltung zu einem digitalen Rathaus zu verwandeln? Arbeit steckt drin, aber alles, was wir brauchen, gibt es schon. This opinion is expressed by Carsten Gabbert, the president of the Freiburg district. He was mayor of the city 16 years ago and gained experience as an independent. To digitize oneself and the administration. He wrote a book that presents very pragmatically what the administration already has at tools and methods available today. If you can't read the book completely, today there are many tips and hints in our conversation. but also to continue the management and the professional development in their everyday life. Hello Carsten, I greet you. Speaker 2 (1:22) Hello Felix, I am very happy that we meet again virtually. Speaker 1 (1:28) What the administration needs is already there. But if I am now the digitalisation officer in a town hall of a huge mountain of OZG services and outdated software, where exactly do I have to look to find these already existing treasures? Yes, Speaker 2 (1:45) of Speaker 1 (1:45) course I don't know for Speaker 2 (1:45) every single town hall in Germany, but I meant the whole thing a bit in the figurative sense. I simply believe that for the things that we need in the administration today, for example, in terms of methods, but also in terms of cooperation, perhaps also in terms of influences that have been around in the economy for a relatively long time, everything is already there and it doesn't have to be newly developed, newly invented, but I think you Speaker 1 (2:17) can Speaker 2 (2:17) do all Speaker 1 (2:17) these Speaker 2 (2:17) things relatively low-key. Speaker 2 (2:20) And that was the idea of my book, that I said, hey, we don't need the big theoretical things again. I don't think we need a lot of money either, but we can start with a lot of things. And that was the thought that I tried Speaker 1 (2:37) to Speaker 2 (2:37) get Speaker 1 (2:39) rid Speaker 2 (2:39) of Speaker 1 (2:39) with Speaker 2 (2:39) the book title. Speaker 1 (2:41) Now you are currently the president of the government. Before that you were mayor for many years. But now, from your current role, one would probably not have expected such a book. Why did you write that? What drove you there? Speaker 2 (2:58) What has driven me was that I have been dealing with public administration for 25 years now. 25 years ago as a software provider, then, as you said, a lot in the community. In the meantime I was self-employed and now I'm in a large administration. And I just Speaker 1 (3:18) have Speaker 2 (3:18) the feeling that a few questions have really pulled Speaker 1 (3:21) through in Speaker 2 (3:21) these 25 years. Speaker 2 (3:28) on a very practical level with a lot of administrative staff. And this translation process, maybe a little bit, the things that are there to bring to the administration, I always enjoyed that. And that's why this thought has been in my head for a long time, that I said, hey, I'm actually going to do what I've been doing for the last 25 years. Speaker 2 (3:53) I would really like to bring that to paper and then thought hey, if I do that in a book, which should also help people, I hope can also help, then I would make a great contribution and that was the drive why I really wanted to write this book. Speaker 1 (4:12) Before we really get into the individual parts again, Speaker 1 (4:17) I just want to ask a question in advance. Now you will ask your book. You have presented a total of around 20 tools and methods that can also be implemented in administration. Do you have a top three? What does every administration have to offer, whether there is or not there, if it is to succeed with the transformation? I may have Speaker 2 (4:40) a top 3 for me as Carsten Gabbard. However, I think it is super important that every administration for itself, and I fear we must even further down the ladder, differentiate, maybe even every team for itself, should find its top 3. So I want to say an example. I found In these four years of self-employment, I have been able to work in very different contexts with people. For example, this topic of collaboration was incredibly important to me. At the same time, I notice that there are many teams in the administration that work very stably together and where people like to work together on site, physically, for eight hours a day. I think they need this collaboration topic in a completely different way at this point. I would find it very difficult to deliver my top three here, but I have the feeling that you should find your way, try things out, look at it and what helps you then makes sense. And as I said, we talk a lot in the administration and in the digitalization of standardization and of unification. I notice in my house, the government board, we have 1800 people, eight departments, I think 70 referendums. I often notice that in one report maybe different teams that use things differently. And Speaker 1 (6:05) that's why I would have a hard time with a top three of mine, but Speaker 2 (6:08) really advise you to take Speaker 1 (6:10) a look Speaker 2 (6:10) at it and make your own top three that will help you. They can be completely different than the ones that helped me. You Speaker 1 (6:16) have just wonderfully laid Speaker 2 (6:18) a Speaker 1 (6:18) foundation for me with the very different cultures that are partly in one house. One administration has been working on one side for a long time, the other administration on the other side. auf die andere Art und Weise. Und wir wissen ja auch, Digitalisierung scheitert ja, wenn es scheitert, an der Kultur und selten an der IT. But now all the listeners we have are sitting somewhere in such a culture and above all they are also sitting in such a hierarchy and then mostly waiting for the go from above. If someone, especially a specialist, a specialist, but says we need these transformation or also the digitalization commissioners are what is such a first concrete step that you also in your book then also with different measures also described what is such a first step the expert maybe even directly tomorrow and say, here we can start the cultural change in small. We don't Speaker 2 (7:29) need Speaker 1 (7:29) a strategy, we'll do it now. Let me Speaker 2 (7:32) just get a little bit out of it. There are different tools where you can measure yourself a bit, like digital, for example. The Digital Competence Wheel is a good example. Speaker 2 (7:49) And there you can see very nicely where you might be a little better on the road and maybe not so good. I don't think such a tool is bad. I would start by answering a question that I first think about what would help me. Do I know a tool that I use very much because I am the head of a tennis club, but I don't use it in the administration yet? Speaker 2 (8:16) Does the same process annoy me every day because I organize myself relatively strongly over the post entrance or something like that? With this analysis I would start and then I would just ask myself the question, hey, what does it take to get better at this point? And with this first point I would then, I think, to my ... Speaker 2 (8:39) leadership and just say hey I have the problem this and that, yes that annoys me, I'll get on with it if I do this and that differently, I can take a closer look at this and that tool or we can talk about it in the team. Speaker 2 (8:55) I think it's always super important to be very concrete, to think a lot about your own work and that you then, that was also a bit in the book, my goal is not to start with the things that a federal ministry or a municipal data center can Speaker 1 (9:10) do for Speaker 2 (9:10) me, but maybe something Speaker 1 (9:12) that Speaker 2 (9:12) I can Speaker 1 (9:12) really Speaker 2 (9:12) change myself. So that would be a bit of my goal to see where I could get better. Maybe I already know something, maybe I use it privately. How can I manage that? and then start concretely. Speaker 1 (9:28) Many who listen to us are not necessarily working as a specialist or a specialist, but maybe also as a team leader, executive officer in the administration, who often hope that exactly as you have just described, the colleagues should try it out. They should do it, they should make their own experiences, they should also be able to make mistakes. But there are also real bite inhibitions. Speaker 1 (9:59) How can you as a manager, and you have been in very different roles, bring the colleagues to bring such tools as in your book, you have also suggested various tools and programs. How can you bring the colleagues to try this out? also with the danger that it is useless for everyday life. I think an