Nick Mohammed on WAR, and David Kittredge on BOORMAN AND THE DEVIL

Kermode on Film

In this episode of Kermode on Film, Mark Kermode hosts two deep-dive interviews recorded live at the BFI South Bank. First, comedian and act

Key takeaways

• Nick Mohammed discusses the creative freedom found in playing characters like Mr Swallow compared to his role as Nate in 'Ted Lasso'.
• The upcoming HBO/Sky series 'War' is described as a legal thriller involving warring law firms and intense internal politics.

Main topics

• Nick Mohammed's acting career
• The making of 'Exorcist II: The Heretic'

Notable quotes

The best film ever made about the worst film ever made.

Conclusion

A compelling look at the spectrum of filmmaking, from the calculated c

Transcript preview

Speaker 3 (0:00) In every job that must be done, there is an element Speaker 4 (0:02) of fun. You find the fun, and Speaker 1 (0:05) snap! Speaker 3 (0:08) Did you know that the very first assembly of photographs in sequential order to create a motion picture was a two-second clip of a black man on a horse? Speaker 1 (0:17) We want the finest wines available to humanity. We want them here, and we want them now. Speaker 6 (0:24) You really don't want me to play, huh? No, I do. Captain Hardy said no. Captain who? Speaker 2 (0:32) Hi, this is Mark Kermode. Thanks for downloading this episode of Kermode on Film. This episode is one half of the September 2026 MK3D show recorded live at the BFI South Bank in London. I talked to comedian and actor Nick Muhammad about his career and the upcoming series War, which is released on the 1st of October. And I'm joined by David Kittredge to talk about Borman and the Devil, his documentary about the making and fallout of John Borman's Exorcist II, The Heretic. And as I've said on record, it's the best film ever made. about the worst film ever made. So sit back, relax, take a front row seat at MK3D, recorded live at the BFI South Bank in London. Enjoy. So the first thing to say is, you may notice that I have a slightly hoarse late night radio voice. And the reason is because I have spent the last three days on tour with the Gang of Three. Here is a scary picture of the Gang of Three. Speaker 2 (1:31) Yes, I don't know. Yeah, terrible. Anyway, so the Gang of Three, as you probably know, is at the age of 60, I wanted to see whether it was possible for me and two people I was friends with when I was 17. We tried to sound like the Gang of Four doing their album Entertainment. And when we got to 60, I said, now that we're actually old and we have proper equipment, do you think we could do it? And Simon, the scary one in the middle, said, why? And I said, well, that's exactly why we should do it. So we started doing it, we started playing gigs, and then, so we played the whole of Entertainment, the Gang of Four's first album. And we've just done this three-night tour in Ireland, and weirdly it turns out that all the gigs that we've ever played, other than one, is in Ireland. So I think we're becoming big in Ireland, which I think is a good thing. When we were doing the Gang of Three thing, there were three of us in the band. The collective age of the band is 187. We got asked, so are you a tribute band? Speaker 2 (2:28) I said, no, we are an avant-garde elder care collective. Yes, we're doing it in order to prove that we still have grey matter. So, look, there's an awful lot of stuff going on. We've got a really packed show for you tonight. There is some absolutely fabulous stuff coming up. Just wanted to flag up a couple of things. Firstly, I am going from here. You know, I said that I would never go to America while Donald Trump was president. Yeah, I lied. Speaker 2 (2:58) No, but I'll be clear. I am going because next week it's the New York Film Festival premiere of The Devil's Director's Cut Restored Remastered, which, as some of you will know, I was kind of part of for 25 something like that years. Anyway, it's finally happening. It's playing in New York. It just played in Toronto. Then it's going to be here at the I hope I'm not starting embargo to say that it's going to be the LFF. No, it's fine. It's been announced. It's going to be here at the London Film Festival and then it's going to be on general release. So you will be able to see it in the proper Ken Russell approved cut that was very first unveiled here on this very stage in 2004. So that's all happening. So I am going to America for that. I'm literally going for two nights. I'm going out there. I'm going to go, this is the devil. This is absolutely brilliant. Ken Russell is one of the greatest British post-war directors of all time. Then I'm getting on a plane and coming back home again. Right. Let's get on with the show. Our first guest is a twice Emmy-nominated actor, comedian and writer. Love stand-up comedian. Some of you will know him perhaps as Mr. Swallow. Perhaps many of you will know him from Ted Lasso. Before we bring him to the stage, let's take a look at a scene from Ted Lasso. Speaker 4 (4:09) Hey, Nate. Hey. Speaker 1 (4:13) Everything okay? Speaker 4 (4:16) Yes, Ted. Everything is okay. Speaker 7 (4:23) What is it? What'd I do? Speaker 4 (4:26) What are you talking about? Speaker 7 (4:27) Oh, come on, man. You're mad as hell at me. I just want to know why. Huh? What have I got to learn here? Speaker 4 (4:34) You want to know what you did? Speaker 7 (4:35) Yeah, please. Speaker 4 (4:38) I'll tell you what you did. You made me feel like I was the most important person in the whole world. And then you abandoned me. Like you switched out of life just like that. And I worked my ass off trying to get your attention back. To prove myself to you. To make you like me again. Speaker 4 (5:07) But the more I did, the less you cared. It's like I was fucking invisible. You haven't even got the photo I gave you for Christmas up in your office, just a picture of dumb Americans. And now you're going to play Nate's false nine to win the team fuck-up, which they will. You can blame it on me. Well, no, fuck that. Everybody loves you. The great Ted Lasso. Well, I think you're a fucking joke. Without me, you wouldn't want a single match and they would have shipped your ass back to Kansas where you fucking belong with your son. You sure as hell don't belong here. Speaker 4 (5:45) I do. I belong here. This didn't just fall into my lap, right? I earned this. I know Speaker 1 (5:51) you didn't, Nate. And if I didn't tell you how important you were to me enough, I'm sorry about that. Speaker 4 (5:56) No, no, you're not. You're full of shit. Just fuck you, Ted. Speaker 2 (6:10) We are about to see him in a new TV series called War. It's just been announced he's going to be hosting the stage edition of Traitors in the West End. Please welcome Nick Muhammad. Speaker 5 (6:26) Should I sit here? Speaker 2 (6:26) Yes, yes, yes. Are you the busiest man in show business right now? Oh, Speaker 5 (6:30) no. No, I don't think so. Speaker 2 (6:32) Tell, explain to me the balance between comedy and drama, because the thing about that clip, I mean, people love Ted Lasso, but the thing about that clip is it is absolutely hitting the gut, pathos, seriousness thing. So how... How do you envisage what you do? Do you think of yourself primarily as an actor or primarily as a comedian? When you wake up in the morning, what do you think of yourself as? Dad. Speaker 5 (6:59) Only just because the kids wake me up. I don't know. I think comedian first still. That's what I feel most comfortable doing. And I think Ted Lasso's a strange one in that season one, the role of Nate was largely comedic and it was quite a comfortable sort of... piece of work for me, you know, it sort of felt quite awkward and sort of, you know, bumbling. And then it was only really season two where it gets, you know, it takes a bit of a heel turn and gets quite dark and far more emotional. But to be honest, because I'm, you know, not a trained actor, I sort of felt like I sort of had to learn to act on the job. Speaker 2 (7:38) But isn't doing stand-up... a form of actor training. Speaker 5 (7:41) Definitely. And it definitely helps you develop a thick skin and you learn to sort of lower your inhibitions a little bit in a way. And, you know, whenever I do comedy on stage, it's almost always in character anyway. So I feel like that has definitely prepared me a little bit. But there's still tons of times where I don't quite know. what I'm doing and sort of have to sort of feel it. And I'm so grateful for that. When you say Speaker 2 (8:03) doing, doing it on stage, you do it in character. Tell me what doing it in character enables you to do. Speaker 5 (8:10) Well, it allows me to just, I feel a lot kind of freer creatively and because, you know, Mr Swallow in particular, which is pretty much the only character that I am on stage now, is, apart from Traitus, where I won't be Mr Swallow, I promise. In case anyone's worried about that. It just allows me to just be someone so different to who I am. And so I feel like I can, it sounds pretentious to say, sort of think differently, but it gives me at least licence, even if it's on a subconscious level, to sort of just... do things that I wouldn't say or do as me. Can Speaker 2 (8:45) we take a quick look at a bit of Mr Swallow? This is from the BAFTAs. OK, take a look at this. Speaker 5 (8:49) Famously didn't go down very well. LAUGHTER Speaker 3 (8:55) to swallow. Just for any international friends out there, I'm like a cross between Torval and Dean and the crab in Little Mermaid. I, of course, stand up on here representing the South Asian community. I'm not South Asian. Genuinely not. Mum's from Cyprus, Dad's from the Caribbean. But that's what the industry's decided, apparently. I am South Asian. No word of a lie, and I've never said this before, OK? accepted an award last year for being South Asian. So look, I haven't actually got time to do my whole motivational spiel, sadly. But for those interested, the main takeaways were essentially hakuna matata and it's okay not to be okay, but not now. Speaker 5 (9:44) I Speaker 2 (9:44) mean... Why do you remember that Speaker 5 (9:46) as not going down well? Oh, my goodness me, that is edited so kindly. Ladies and gentlemen, Nick. No, not even that edit, the edit that BAFTA put out. I mean, it Speaker 3 (9:57) was Speaker 5 (9:57) so... I mean, it was... First of all, I was always going to do that gig. When they asked me to do it, I was like, well, there's no way this is going to go down well, but I really want to do it. And I would do it again in a heartbeat, but it was... I mean, it's such a... You have to understand, I mean, the BAFTA Film Awards in particular, they are so serious. to a degree almost so self-serious. And, you know, the more serious you take themselves, it's kind of rewarded in this industry to a degree. So to come on after someone had made, like, a really kind of emotional, kind of compelling speech about... I literally think about representation among working-class women in British cinema. I then came on going, hello! And it was like, what? Like, people... And obviously there's a load of Americans in the audience. No-one really knew what it was, like, what was going on. And kind of rightly so, I really sort of felt for them. And there's no way that I can sort of change Mr Swallow's persona once I'm in it. So I couldn't... sort of slow down or do anything different so I'm there talking literal nonsense and I could see like Christopher Nolan and then like Ryan Gosling and Greta Gerwig and I'm like oh my god I'm literally career suicide but the only thing the only saving and it was look it was all right ish by the end but the only saving grace is that I then do in my live show of Mr Swallow show pony which I've just finished doing I kind of break down that set and I sort of basically bring up clips from it and then sort of kind of go through how it didn't go down well and how I wanted it to go down. You Speaker 2 (11:12) know, I presented at BAFTA. Speaker 5 (11:15) Right, that year? Speaker 2 (11:17) No, not that year, but many years before. But you wouldn't know about it because they'd cut me out of the broadcast. I was presenting the BAFTA for Best Foreign Language Film, OK? And, of course, when