Mark on GIMME SHELTER and THE ODYSSEY with Susan Steinberg, Samantha Morton and Lucy Darwin
Kermode on Film
Mark Kermode concludes his series from the Provence Arts Festival du Film with three insightful conversations. He first discusses the construction of the
Key takeaways
- Susan Steinberg explains that Gimme Shelter was a highly constructed documentary shaped significantly in the editing room.
- The film Cocksucker Blues remains largely unreleased due to legal complications involving Keith Richards' drug use in Canada.
Main topics
- Gimme Shelter documentary
- The Odyssey film
Notable quotes
It was made in the editing room. There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it.
Conclusion
The episode offers a profound look at how film construction impacts tr
Transcript preview
Speaker 2 (0:00) Hi, this is Mark Kermode. Thanks for listening to this episode of Kermode on Film. We've reached the final episode in our series from the Provence Arts Festival du Film, and we're rounding things off with three fantastic conversations. First, a fascinating conversation with Gimme Shelter editor Susan Steinberg. Then I'll be joined by the wonderful Samantha Morton to talk about some of the festival highlights, including the Elvis documentary Epic and one-to-one John and Yoko, as well as Sam's work on The Odyssey. And finally, I'll be catching up with the festival's director, Lucy Darwin, to look back at this year's festival and find out what might be in store for next year. So, plenty to get through. Hope you enjoy it. Speaker 2 (0:39) I am really delighted to be joined by Susan Steinberg. Tonight, we are going to introduce and then watch a late night screening of one of my favorite documentaries, Gimme Shelter, on which you worked. Can I ask you, after all these years, what does Gimme Shelter mean in terms of your career? Because it's become such a significant film. Kevin MacDonald, who is here introducing his movie, said that it is the greatest documentary ever made. I think it's one of the most terrifying films I've ever seen. What does it mean to you? Speaker 1 (1:09) Let me put it this way I learned filmmaking through the Maisels. They were my, which is people who made the film, and Charlotte Zwerin. And it was made in the editing room. There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Because when it happened, I'll tell you what strikes me, is that when you're making a documentary film, you're always thinking, what's the story? What are we going to store? What are we going to base it on? And I remember the day we all found out about the murder. And you have two thoughts. oh my god, someone was killed there. The second thought is, we have a story. I mean, it is really a very ghoulish way to look at things, but filmmakers and writers, et cetera, do. So what is it? It's sort of a funny thing, because what it really strangely made me think about and learn is you have direct cinema that's considered absolutely how it happened. And this is such a constructed documentary. It's completely constructed. We had many, we were all there, there were eight people in the editing team, and we had many meetings about how are we going to slow down the murder so that the audience can see what happened. So what do I remember about it? I remember how structure and drama is so important to documentary filmmaking that people tend to think doesn't exist. They take it as it was, and it's not like that. Speaker 3 (2:40) We've received word that someone was stabbed to death in front of the stage by a member of the Hells Angels. Nothing's confirmed on that. We were there. We didn't see it, but we did see a lot. We want to know now what you saw. Our phones are open. We'd like to hear from you. What was the Altamont Free Concert like? Speaker 2 (2:57) There may be many people listening to this who haven't actually seen Gimme Shelter because for a long time it's been quite hard to get hold of. It has had television screenings and festival screenings, but weirdly it's always been something that you've had to seek out. I remember first learning about the film through reading Philip Norman's biography of the Rolling Stones in which he described the film and it sounded almost like a film modi, something really, really terrifying. And then when I watched it, the thing that struck me most was this. It's a document of a free concert that the Rolling Stones gave at Altamont. And it begins, pretty much, with the aftermath. It begins with the fact that at the beginning of it, we know that this has ended in a young man getting killed very near the front of the stage by the Hells Angels, a young African-American called Meredith Hunter. And then we go back to the beginning and see them. We're going to do this free concert. It's going to be great. It's going to be a kind of indication of how people could live. When you talk about the construction, I think that that narrative device is the thing that defines the film because it's like watching a car crash in slow motion because you know where it ends. Speaker 1 (4:13) Absolutely. And that was a very important decision that was made way, way longer into the making of the film. Completely right. And also bringing Mick Jagger back in to see this was a very, very big decision. And how it was shot and what happened. His strange Speaker 2 (4:34) reaction. Can you describe that shot for me? The shot when we see Mick Jagger watching the movie Ola? Speaker 1 (4:39) Okay. In the editing room at that time, we worked on a machine called the Steenbeck. And basically, it's like sitting in front of a flat... table that has a screen on it. So today you'd say it looks like a TV screen, but it's not. And you can go back and forth very easily. Speaker 1 (4:58) And he comes in and he's sitting there and David Maisels is next to him. David Maisels runs the company, Maisels is the director. And he shows Mick the scene and looking for his reaction. And Mick is kind of, you know, almost gobsmacked at it. Could Speaker 2 (5:22) you say what was Speaker 1 (5:23) happening, Speaker 2 (5:23) Mick? No, you couldn't see anything. It was another scuff. Speaker 4 (5:27) There's the angel right there with the knife. Speaker 1 (5:30) I'm not quite sure what to say because it's a device that I'm not sure I ever liked, that aspect of it. Because? It was so obviously manipulated. The manipulation of it was more than I think was necessary. In other words, I understand you wanted to get the reaction of Mick Jagger. doing it. I'm not sure how I would do it now, but I might have done slightly differently. There was something about it that was so manipulated and it went on and there's many takes of it. It's not like we showed it once and then we saw his reaction. It was shown and then discussed a teeny bit and then shown again. But it's important for the film and it was important for us to have Mick acknowledge it. and see what he felt about it. And it also goes along with the bad boy legacy of the Stones as opposed to the Beatles. Okay, Speaker 2 (6:29) because in America in particular, there was the whole Beatles are clean cut, Rolling Stones are street fighting men. Speaker 1 (6:37) That's right, exactly, exactly. So it goes along with that. It's a little hard for me because I know the stones from two distinctly different films. Yes. Cock Sucker Blues, which is not a constructed film. Yeah. And Gimme Shelter. And I did them almost back to back. So the interesting thing about learning filmmaking and being with the Maisels and then being with Robert Frank, who's a very different kind of artist and filmmaker, Speaker 3 (7:04) really Speaker 1 (7:05) was such an interesting experience that I have, I can separate it intellectually. But I also can see that each one has its great forces. Speaker 2 (7:15) Now, Cocksucker Blues has never been officially released. It's always been surrounded by licensing problems. It could be played when one of the filmmakers was present or when one of the Rolling Stones was present. What was the issue with it? Why wasn't that film available? Speaker 1 (7:31) The film was not available because in the middle of making the film, Keith Richards got back into heroin in Canada. and got busted. And America, Foreign Services said that he will