Does the new Austen adaptation suit Mark's sensibility? With George MacKay

Kermode & Mayo’s Take

The episode features hosts Simon and Mark discussing recent film releases, upcoming festivals, and industry news. Mark shares his travel anx

Key takeaways

• George MacKay discusses playing Edward Ferrars in Georgia Oakley's new Sense and Sensibility adaptation.
• Mark describes his strategy of wearing his suit on a plane to prevent airlines from losing it before the New York Film Festival.

Main topics

• Sense and Sensibility adaptation
• New York Film Festival

Notable quotes

It is all style, no substance.

Conclusion

A comprehensive look at current cinema through critical reviews and ac

Transcript preview

Speaker 7 (0:00) Some evil thing happened here. Speaker 1 (0:02) Three people die in a quiet suburb in the same house, years apart. Speaker 7 (0:09) It's not a coincidence. This wasn't ghosts and goblins, okay? These were murders. Speaker 1 (0:13) From Sony Music Entertainment, this is What Happened to the Harrisons. Start listening today, wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribers to The Binge can listen to all episodes, all at once, ad-free. Speaker 2 (0:30) When you put your body in the hands of a surgeon, you assume your doctor will do you no harm. I'm looking at the surgery board for tomorrow going, these people are f***ed. But when your doctor's in it just for the money, something absolutely insane happens. One doctor says, yeah, I did a lumbar fusion. My kickback was $25,000. And the other doctor's going, well, I only got $12,000 because I did a neck. This is a story about a massive web of fraud and deception. Dozens of doctors all over Southern California. A fraud worth over $1 billion. Speaker 3 (1:09) Patients were committing suicide. losing their homes, losing their marriages. From Speaker 2 (1:14) Sony Music Entertainment and Western Sound, this is Dr. Billions. Available now on The Binge. Search for Dr. Billions wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribers to The Binge can listen to all episodes, all at once, ad-free. Speaker 3 (1:29) Before we begin, a quick reminder that you can become a Vanguardista and get an extra episode every Thursday, including bonus reviews. Speaker 4 (1:37) Extra viewing suggestions. Viewing recommendations at home and in cinemas. Plus your film and non-film questions answered as best we can in Questions Shmestians. You can get all that extra stuff via Apple Podcasts or head to extratakes.com for non Speaker 5 (1:52) -fruit related devices. Speaker 3 (1:53) There's never been a better time to become a Vanguardista. Free offer now available wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're already a Vanguardista, we salute you. Speaker 3 (2:15) What's up? What's up? What is... Speaker 4 (2:21) Everything is up. Everything is up. Everything is up in the air. So we need to explain at the beginning. Are Speaker 3 (2:26) you Speaker 4 (2:26) all right? You've got to expire. Okay. Speaker 3 (2:29) We Speaker 5 (2:30) need to explain at the beginning of this program how this is working. So I am not in Cornwall. I am in London. Speaker 4 (2:37) No, I'm in the heart of the Take HQ on Theobald's Road in London. Take HQ? Speaker 3 (2:45) Okay, that looks very lovely. Speaker 4 (2:47) Yeah, exactly. Well, you know what it's like, Simon. You've been here Speaker 5 (2:49) before. I was there yesterday, Speaker 3 (2:51) in fact. Speaker 5 (2:51) You were here yesterday when you were speaking to today's guest, which I won't preempt. But you and I were going to be doing the show in the same space. We are now not doing that for complicated reasons. You are actually at your home in Showbiz North London. I am at the home of the Take HQ. And the reason I am here is because, and the reason I'm dressed as... Immaculately, like you're an elder statesman. Thank you. I will take that in the spirit in which it's intended, is that I am wearing my suit because I'm going from here to Heathrow to go to New York to introduce the director's cut of The Devils at the New York Film Festival. Speaker 3 (3:30) Have they seen your social media feed in customs? Speaker 5 (3:32) Thank you for bringing that up straight away. And I'm glad this podcast won't go out until after. So when you're listening to this podcast, one of two things will have happened. Either... I will be ensconced in New York and gearing up to do the devil's thing. Or I will be on a flight home because, as Simon just pointed out, they're a bit jumpy. But the other thing is, the last four times that I've been on a plane, they have lost my luggage. And the last time it happened, I was coming back from Ireland. They lost my base. So I have to, I've got it back, but you know. I have to have this suit to introduce the film because it's at the Lincoln Center and I have to be in a suit. And I figured the only way I can guarantee that they can't lose my suit is I have to wear it now on the plane. So I literally had to wake up this morning in Dean Street and then slub all the way over here to Theobald's Road wearing the suit. And then I'm going to be on the Elizabeth line wearing the suit and I'm going to think and then I'm going to have nine hours on the flight to get to there where they... won't look at my social media. And then, so anyway, that's why I'm dressed as an elder statesman. So when are you Speaker 3 (4:40) on stage? Speaker 5 (4:43) Not today, Saturday. I'm going today because I've got to, I'm doing interviews for the film because I'm, you know, because I'm sort of the, because I was involved in the restoration. So I'm the voice of the reissue. I'm being interviewed by Rolling Stone. You're Speaker 3 (4:58) the restorer, in fact. Speaker 5 (5:00) Well, no, because I didn't do the restoration. I helped them find the footage, however many years ago it was. But we'll review it when it comes out. I'll tell you my review, film of the year. It's going to be fab. But I just want everybody to collectively hope that by the time you're listening to this, I am indeed in America through customs. I am not Guantanamo. Yeah, and can you actually not make those jokes? Because I'm actually genuinely quite anxious about this, all right? Okay, yeah. Speaker 3 (5:32) How are you? I'm very good. So you're going to stand up at a podium at the Lincoln Speaker 4 (5:37) Center? It's on stage at the Lincoln Center. On stage at the Lincoln Center. I mean, I did it at Cannes, you know. I did it at Cannes and it was fine. Is it the Lincoln Speaker 3 (5:45) Trump Center? Is it that place? Speaker 4 (5:47) No, that's the, Speaker 5 (5:47) what are they calling that? Kennedy. The Kennedy Center, yeah, Speaker 4 (5:52) which he's apparently going to knock down because they said he couldn't call it the Trump Center. So apparently he's going to knock it down. Speaker 3 (5:59) Yeah. Well, there's an apology in take two, which I have to make because it's easy to confuse your American presidents. So I did last week, but we'll get to that. Did Speaker 4 (6:08) you? Okay. Speaker 3 (6:09) Yeah, in take two. Anyway, that's enough jaunty interplay for now. Why don't you tell us what you're doing for the rest of the show? Speaker 4 (6:16) I just want to say firstly to the listeners, it does actually say on the script, delightful, jaunty interplay. That was it. I think Speaker 3 (6:23) we've done that. Speaker 4 (6:24) And then it says, Mark talks enticingly about, so the film's reviewing Heart of the Beast, Brad Pitt and Speaker 5 (6:30) a Dog, Borman and the Devil, which is a documentary about the making of John Borman's Exorcist to the Heretic, Her Private Hell, about which you spoke to Nick Winding Refn last week, or NWR as he describes himself, and a new version of Sense and Sensibility with our very, very special guest. Speaker 3 (6:49) Yeah, it has a great cast, and George Mackay is one of those stars in an ensemble to die for. And so George Mackay will be talking to us about sense and sensibility. Also, reviews in Take Two available Speaker 4 (7:05) on Patreon. What are you doing there? We have a review of Baby Star, which is a film which concludes that social media, it's Speaker 5 (7:12) not entirely a good thing. And also we have our five-question film club, Three Questions, Your Majesty, which I'm very excited about this week. Speaker 3 (7:20) You can get Take Two ad-free by heading to our Patreon page. Just search Kermit O'Meary Patreon and you'll find us there. Here's an email from... Speaker 3 (7:31) Well, this is a very good start, isn't it? Chris. It's from Chris. It's going swimmingly. Yeah. Dear Ketchup and Mayo, I followed the show through its many incarnations, and I think this podcast is the best yet. How about that? Wow. That's a good promise. Great. Thank you, Chris. With so many films now pushing well beyond two hours, I've started treating bathroom break strategy as a vital part of my cinema planning. The cinema, after all, doesn't have a pause button. I've had two memorable experiences. During The Dark Knight, I was desperate for the loo halfway through, but I was so engrossed I refused to leave. It was an uncomfortable victory, but I made it to the credits. My second experience was less successful. At a sold-out IMAX screening of Star Trek Into Darkness, I accepted defeat and went to the bathroom, only to return and completely forget where I was sitting. After awkwardly climbing through the wrong row and apologising to numerous strangers, I finally found my seat but spent the rest of the film mortified. Since then, I always go just before the trailers. Do you or the Vanguard have any cinema bathroom rituals? And do you share the fear of missing something crucial while away? Up with intermissions and down with extra large beverages. Kind regards from Chris. I mean, there's a good point there about extra large beverages. That's the first thing. Don't. Yeah. Don't have one. I think your bladder is weaker than mine. That's my hunch. And you're seeing movies all the time. What is your strategy? Sorry, Speaker 4 (9:05) why do you think that my bladder is weaker than yours? Speaker 3 (9:07) Because you seem to nip off to the Speaker 4 (9:10) loo. Do Speaker 3 (9:12) I? Speaker 4 (9:12) I think so. Anyway, I might be wrong, but anyway. Can I just say, never during screenings. I don't ever leave the film to go to the loo in Speaker 5 (9:22) a screening. How do you work Speaker 3 (9:24) that one through? The Speaker 5 (9:25) reason for that is, firstly, when you're a film critic, the first question anyone asks is, what's the running time? In fact, my very good friend Nigel Floyd said that if he ever wrote his autobiography, which he won't, he's going to call it, what's the running time? The first thing you do is what's the running time. And then, for example, say I've got a 10 o'clock screening and the running time is over two hours. Okay, fine. In that case, no fluid intake before that. You know, wake up in the morning, maybe have an espresso. That's fine. But no fluid intake, you know, for at least a couple of hours beforehand. And literally go for a wee at three minutes to 10 at the last possible moment. Yeah, absolutely. That's the, you have to, you have to, because I mean, you think about it, if you, if you're an audience member, I mean, if you step out of Star Trek into darkness, you could go out to the loo, come back. They could be in an alternative universe. They could be characters, you know, it's, I, you, yes, you can't do that. So that's one of the, that's one of the reasons we have to be very, very, very careful about it. You Speaker 3 (10:24) have to be, basically you have to, you know, if you have the discipline and mindset of a film critic, Chris. you'll be fine. It's if you're kind of slack and you just go, oh, yes, I'll have an extra large Diet Pepsi. Thank you very much indeed. Although Diet Pepsi, I don't like very much. But anything large, you are going to have to disappear all the time. But we do recommend the Run P app. Have you heard this? Yes. It's identified the following micturation opportunities. So basically, it's a film app that tells you when you can go and have a pee without missing anything crucial. Yeah. So, for example, in the Odyssey, at 27.30, 27 minutes and 30 seconds, for three minutes and 50 seconds, when Odysseus says, with a little luck and the right winds, we'll see some more of the world and still get home before Agamemnon. There follows mostly scenes about sailing and pillaging for resources. So this is very useful. Speaker 3 (11:22) 58 minutes and 50 when Odysseus says, the men became more convinced that I offended Poseidon. This is one big action scene that's easy to summarize. So it's full of that kind of thing. I didn't know this existed until this week. So the Run P, if you think that you're going to see an epic and you know that you're not going, even being disciplined the way Mark is, that you're not going to be able to make it, it sounds like a crucial app to have so that they've seen the film and they can tell you when to go to the toilet. Speaker 4 (11:49) Yes. Can I just say, I'm slightly offended that you think so poorly of my bladder. I'm trying to think on what you're basing it, because I've never in a screening with you. You've never, well, we're barely in screenings together, but when am I constantly rushing off to the loo? If we're in the pub, if we're in the pub, then that's different, because if you're necking pints, then yes. I think it's just a general sense. How can you have a... You can get in touch with me. That's Speaker 3 (12:17) what offends me. Speaker 4 (12:17) That's what offends me, that you have a general sense of me needing to go to the loo. Tell us something that's out this week. Her Private Hell. Yes. This is the new film from Nick Winding Refn. Nick Winding Refn. Oh, yes, or Vinding, or however, anyway, NWR, as he described it. Director of Drive, Only Speaker 5 (12:34) God Forgives, Neon Demon. I have to say, I've been a fan of many of NWR's films, which are perhaps best known for their... They're glossy visual style, lots of pink, lots of blue, but I think at best have some real substance. Okay, so Her Private Hell. Technically, this is a science fiction inflected thriller in which Sophie Thatcher is Elle, who, and forgive me if some of these plot points aren't quite right because it's a bit confusing. She's an actress playing in a film, apparently living in a tower surrounded by mist. Christine Froseth is her new co-star, Hunter. Elle has a frosty relationship with her stepmother Dominique, played by Havana Rose-Lieu, and who has married her filmmaker father, Johnny Thunders, who's Dugray Scott. And there is also a mythical killer at large, the improbably named Leather Man, which is presumably, you know, a killer who's got a useful Swiss knife attachment that fits like a multi-tool. Very good. Anyway, here is a clip from the trailer for her private hell. Speaker 7 (13:38) Beautiful. Sweet. Speaker 7 (13:42) Powerful. You either have it or you don't. The moment you forget that is the moment you disappear. Have you heard? There's been another victim of the Leather Man. Is he a ghost? If you think he's playing games with you, he is. Speaker 5 (14:25) So, Speaker 4 (14:25) Towers, Princesses, Stepmothers, Speaker 5 (14:27) Evil Monsters, it's a fairy tale, as indeed Nick Winding Refn himself made clear. Now, here's the thing, because your interview with him was really great, if anyone's listening to this and they hadn't listened to the interview, go back and listen to the interview, because what I'd like to do in this review is respond to the points that Nick Winding Refn raised about the film. Okay, so he says this quote. In the interview, on a factual level, it's about a young girl who searches for her father. And on that journey, she creates the perfect father and then ends up being caught in her own nightmare, her own private hell. It's a fairy tale, okay? So back in a few years ago, I think it was 2023, and you talked about this, Nick Winding Refn was technically, in inverted commas, dead for 23 minutes due to a leaking heart. And he talked about this experience of being medically dead. It was an operation that was going on. And this experience reinvigorated his creative soul. He said, God killed me. But then he was saved by the Tom Cruise of surgery, was brought back to life by electricity, very Frankenstein, which re-sparked the flame. And he then referred to himself in the interview as a visionary artist. And he did it slightly self-mockingly. Incidentally, there is a very good video, which I sent you, of William Friedkin interviewing Nick Winding Refn, in which he calls himself a visionary artist. William Friedkin calls for a doctor. So he said that after this near-death experience, he came back wanting to contribute to humanity by making movies that can be a collective experience. That was exactly what he said, right? Okay. If Her Private Hell is a collective experience, I think that experience may well be one of sleeping or snoring or booing. He talked about the fact that the film, when it played at Cannes, had contributed to the world because it caused uproar at Cannes, right? And he said, that's how you know you've done something right. Well, sometimes it is true that making a film that caused uproar at Cannes is you've done something right. Sometimes it's just because you made a film that isn't any good. He said he wanted to make a story for young people with the homogenous, young people who were disappointed with the homogenous style of modern entertainment. And yet, I don't know how you feel about this. This looks to me like a film made by... an older man who has absolutely run out of ideas and is just plagiarizing his own back catalog and doing stuff that he's done before. He said that he wanted to make a movie that AI could never make, one that the AI algorithm would consider the enemy. A commendable goal. A commendable goal, and I agree that AI would never dream this movie up. But if this is the enemy of AI, then we are all sunk because this is not an enemy that is putting up much of a fight. You described the film. as resembling a near-death experience. And I certainly felt watching it that I was in danger of dying of boredom. You also said that it had a hallucinatory quality, which is a polite description of the film's narrative, which is just navel-gazing, style-over-substance nonsense. This whole thing about, he said that the film's got a philosophy, and the fact that it's got a philosophy is polarizing, and that's what makes it dangerous, because it's got a philosophy. And I was thinking, yeah, I love Videodrome. I love Videodrome, which that idea comes from, and I wish I was watching Videodrome. He also said, it's no longer about good or bad. It is about your experience as a viewer. Well, I am a viewer, and my experience of it was definitely bad. It was absolutely about good and bad, and it was bad. He also said, I am very conscious of time, and when I'm asking people to give out, when I ask them to give their time, well... It's 109 minutes long, and I would like to ask for at least 19 of those minutes back. He said that the film, and I know he was being tongue-in-cheek, contributed Speaker 4 (18:07) to human evolution. I think it put the cause of human evolution back several years. He also then finally said Speaker 5 (18:14) towards the end, the film is an installation with moving images, to which I would say, fine, put it in an art gallery, get it out of my cinema. He said, it's an opera, a horror film, an action movie, to which I would say it's not operatic. It doesn't have horror shocks and it's not got any entertaining action in it. He said that he loved making the film, which makes perfect sense because as we know, the more fun people have making a film, the less fun anyone has watching it. And the best thing about it is Pino D'Onozio's music because at least that gave me something to hang on to. Refn asked D'Onozio to write him an opera, which D'Onozio did. It's just a shame. Refn didn't make a film to go with Speaker 4 (18:50) it. It is all style, no substance. It is a load of pants. Speaker 2 (18:54) Yeah. Speaker 4 (18:55) Insufferable is another word that I Speaker 3 (18:57) would use. Your witness. Yes. I mean, it is certainly very stylish. However, in its faith, I'm looking for a reason why it got a seven-minute standing ovation at Cannes. I know everything. Speaker 4 (19:10) Everything gets a seven-minute standing ovation at Cannes. Speaker 3 (19:14) It could be that AI. looks at this film and goes, shall we not bother? I don't think, is that the best? Okay. Speaker 4 (19:26) They're no threat. That's what I mean. When I said it's the enemy of AI, if AI looks at this and thinks that's the enemy, there's no point wiping them out. I mean, they're just doing, they're just gazing at their own navels. Speaker 3 (19:38) Yeah. It was