Does Mark dig Digger? + AARON SORKIN

Kermode & Mayo’s Take

The episode features an in-depth interview with screenwriter and director Aaron Sorkin regarding his new film, The Social Reckiente. The hos

Key takeaways

• Aaron Sorkin discusses the transition from writing to directing with The Social Reckoning, focusing on the whistleblower narrative of Facebook.
• The film Digger is critiqued as an 'insufferably up itself' production that relies heavily on meta-commentary and high budgets.

Main topics

• Aaron Sordkin Interview
• Film Review: Digger

Notable quotes

It is an indulgence. A grand and... insufferably up itself, look at me folly.

Conclusion

A substantive episode that balances high-profile industry interviews w

Transcript preview

Speaker 7 (0:00) Some evil thing happened here. Speaker 5 (0:02) Three people die in a quiet suburb in the same house, years apart. Speaker 7 (0:09) It's not a coincidence. This wasn't ghosts and goblins, okay? These were murders. Speaker 5 (0:14) From Sony Music Entertainment, this is What Happened to the Harrisons. Start listening today, wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribers to The Binge can listen to all episodes, all at once, ad-free. Speaker 7 (0:30) When you put your body in the hands of a surgeon, you assume your doctor will do you no harm. I'm looking at the surgery board for tomorrow going, these people are f***ed. But when your doctor's in it just for the money, something absolutely insane happens. One doctor says, yeah, I did a lumbar fusion. My kickback was $25,000. And the other doctor's going, well, I only got $12,000 because I did a neck. This is a story about a massive web of fraud and deception. Dozens of doctors all over Southern California. A fraud worth over $1 billion. Patients were committing suicide. losing their homes, losing their marriages. From Sony Music Entertainment and Western Sound, this is Dr. Billions. Available now on The Binge. Search for Dr. Billions wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribers to The Binge can listen to all episodes, all at once, ad-free. Speaker 4 (1:29) Before we begin, a quick reminder that you can become a Vanguardista and get an extra episode every Thursday. Including bonus reviews. Extra viewing suggestions. Viewing recommendations at home and in cinemas. Plus your film and non-film questions answered as best we can in Questions Shmestians. You can get all that extra stuff via Apple Podcasts or Speaker 6 (1:49) head to extratakes.com for non-fruit related devices. Speaker 8 (1:53) There's never been a better time to become a Vanguardista. Free offer now available wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're Speaker 4 (2:00) already a Vanguardista, we salute you. Speaker 2 (2:17) Well, I'm not completely sure, but you have a manner about you today. There is a definite kind of, let me have a look at it. Mm-hmm, yeah, the glasses, the jaunty expression. Yep, that's right. You're a well-seasoned traveller who's been to America recently, got let in and got let out again. That's the look that you have. I was... fully expecting to get a message in the middle of the night saying, they've detained me. They realise who I am. Speaker 1 (2:50) I know. And you were making jokes about it on the programme. And I was saying, can you please stop making jokes about it? And then people actually started sending me messages saying, yeah, I'm sorry that he was making jokes about it because I would feel the same as you did. As it was. They're Speaker 8 (3:02) ridiculous then. They are absolutely ridiculous. Speaker 1 (3:05) As it was, it was fine, but it took something like three hours to get through customs because you get there and there are 10 desks for United States citizens and one desk for everyone else in the world. Speaker 2 (3:17) That's prejudice, that is. Mind you, going anywhere, if you come from this country, is pretty much the same. If you fly into, I mean, the only place I go is Copenhagen, you still have to wait there for hours. You know, the flight. hour and a half. Great. You're there. You're ready to go. Two hours later, you finally get to the passport guy, which is just madness. Speaker 1 (3:39) Anyway, ask me what I did when I was there. I know what you did Speaker 2 (3:43) when you were Speaker 1 (3:43) there. No, you don't. There's something that you don't know about. Tell me the thing that I don't know that you did when you got there. I met up with Hello to Jason Isaacs. Speaker 2 (3:51) Yes, I did. Didn't he post about something? Didn't you post Speaker 1 (3:54) about Speaker 4 (3:54) something? Oh, Speaker 2 (3:54) did he? Speaker 4 (3:54) Wasn't there a photograph? I've seen a photograph, I think. Okay. What's he up to? Well, he's out there. He's filming like five Speaker 1 (4:00) movies at the same time. Such a tart. And Speaker 4 (4:03) we Speaker 1 (4:03) walked the High Line. You know, there's this thing. It's a bit of elevated railway track. And they've kind of turned it into like a garden walk. So you kind of walk above the city. And we met at one end of it. And we walked. And we must have walked faster than we thought because about 10 minutes later, we were at the other end of it. And we both went, that's a lot shorter than we thought it was going to be. And then we, it's Jason because he's Jason. He took me to, did you know there's a Soho house in New York? Speaker 4 (4:36) Yeah. Did you know that? Is he a member? Well, again, he appears to be Speaker 1 (4:40) a Speaker 4 (4:40) member of everything. Yes, probably. So what benefits did you get from that? Speaker 1 (4:44) Well, I sat with him and talked and we sat and talked. And then as we talked, a whole bunch of people came in, you know, sort of, so it was like, you couldn't do anything at all because, oh, look, there's Gurinder Chadha. She came over and talks and, you know, talks about whatever she's up to. And then somebody else famous comes in. He's just, he's the most famous person we know. Speaker 2 (5:05) Do you think? I suppose it might be right. Speaker 6 (5:08) Yes. He'll be listening to this. Say hello. Speaker 2 (5:12) Yeah. I'm just wondering, is he the most famous person that we know? I think he is. Yeah, Speaker 4 (5:17) he could. Well, is he more famous than Sanjeev? I suppose he is. I think he's more famous than anyone. I think he's like literally properly famous. He wears a baseball cap. Or to Speaker 1 (5:28) stop people saying, that's Jason Isaacs. Well, I said, are you doing that in order to stop people going, hello to Jason Isaacs? He said, no, I'm doing it because of my hair. But I think he was keeping a low profile. It was lovely to see him. He was in particularly good form. And he said to say hello back. Speaker 2 (5:45) That's very nice. But what is he actually doing? Speaker 1 (5:49) I'm not making this up. He's shooting a number of movies. So he's shooting something in New York and then he's shooting something else in Canada. So he's going backwards and forwards and, you know, from one to the other because he's shooting them both at the same time. He's so busy. He's just, he's constantly Speaker 4 (6:05) in demand. Do you think he could host this show? If I was off one time. Speaker 2 (6:10) You could ask him. I think he probably would, wouldn't he? Dave Morrissey's done it back in the old days, but I think Speaker 4 (6:16) there Speaker 2 (6:16) was, he wasn't quite sure about, hello Dave, by the way, he wasn't sure about queuing to the sport and the travel and the horse racing and things like that. But that's Speaker 1 (6:25) why we got rid of all of that nonsense. Well, you're off soon. And we're not going to say this now who it is, but. There's an absolute doozy of a presenter. Yeah, a bit of a low-budget presenter. Standing in for the one week that you're off. Speaker 2 (6:41) Yeah, I mean, it's incredible. Absolutely incredible. Absolutely. I mean, I knew David Cameron wasn't doing much, but I didn't know we could get him. Speaker 1 (6:53) Do you remember? There was a week when we used to be on a different platform when I was off and you got Michael Portillo to stand in for me because there was a joke about the fact that Michael Portillo looked a bit like me. Speaker 2 (7:03) I do. And he didn't quite understand the concept of movie criticism because he just read and told us the whole thing. All the way through. I mean, he was doing his best, but Frank Gardner did the same. Reviewed a film about security by... Talking about the whole thing, Tom Courtney did it. It's clearly a school of thought which says, here's Speaker 4 (7:25) the entire movie. That's it. Okay, thank you very Speaker 1 (7:28) much. Speaker 4 (7:28) Just describe for me what happens in Speaker 1 (7:30) the film, in the order that it happens. That'll be fine. Speaker 2 (7:33) Speaking of which, tell us about the films that you're going to be talking about in order without spoiling too much. Speaker 1 (7:38) Yes. So we have a new Brit pic, Extra Geography. We have Verity, which is a sort of modern... erotic film noir thriller, and Digger, which is the Tom Cruise movie that you will have heard tons and tons about, but everyone has been told very specifically, don't say anything that will spoil it. And we also have a very special Speaker 4 (7:59) guest. Sorry, sorry. Hang on a second. Before the guest. What? Speaker 4 (8:05) You can't say anything about it? Speaker 1 (8:07) No, no, no. You can't say anything? Yes, more than normal. There was a big announcement that came up at the beginning, which said, we, the filmmakers, want you to enjoy this in the best possible way and consequently don't do any spoilers at all. We'll deal with it when we get to the film. Speaker 2 (8:25) Okay. Someone at work always said, oh yeah, I've heard about that. It's a musical. I said, I don't think it is. Okay. Well, that's one thing sorted. Speaker 1 (8:33) Or maybe that's a spoiler. Maybe that's a spoiler. Maybe it's a musical. Speaker 2 (8:37) Every time you say Digger and anyone else says Digger, in my head, it triggers. I Digger, I Digger was a boozy beggar. Hobbes was fond of his dram and Rennie Descartes was a drunken Speaker 1 (8:46) fart. Speaker 2 (8:46) I drink before I am. But obviously it's a different Digger. Speaker 8 (8:50) Yes. So Aaron Sorkin is going to be on the show, which is a fabulous thing. West Wing, a few good men, American president, Charlie Wilson's war money ball, Steve Jobs' social network. All of that, he's doing the social reckoning. He's written it and he's directed it and he's on this show. May I just Speaker 1 (9:09) ask you, I know you're probably embargoed up the wazoo, but generally? Speaker 1 (9:16) Generally what? Generally, because you've seen such a record. I'm not seeing it till Monday, but I'm very excited about seeing it. Speaker 2 (9:22) I think your excitement will pay off handsomely. Excellent. Thank you. Speaker 4 (9:26) Is that okay? Speaker 2 (9:27) Yes, that's great. I mean, I really, if you're waiting, obviously, if you're waiting for a car chase, this isn't your film. If you're waiting for some shoot-em-up action, this is not your film. If you're looking for some rampant sex, this is not your film. Speaker 4 (9:42) Are there any dinosaurs in it? No dinosaurs, no spaceships. But if you're looking for some sparkling dialogue, then this is the one for you. And in take two, what are you up to there? A couple of films in take two, The Wait, that's W-E-I-G-H-T, not Speaker 1 (9:57) The Wait, like the second track off the Pretenders first album, and April Speaker 6 (10:02) X, which is a futuristic thriller. Speaker 8 (10:05) You can get Take Two ad-free by heading to our Patreon page. Just search for Coming About Patreon and you'll find us there. Ryan in Abingdon says, hello, number one and number two. Last week, Simon told us about Run P, an app that tells you the best times to go to the toilet during a movie. Speaker 4 (10:22) Yes. Speaker 8 (10:22) While I'm sure it's useful for many movies. I find it doesn't work particularly well for action movies. The app suggests time where you can nip to the bathroom without losing track of the plot. And for action movies, it will often suggest going to the bathroom during an action sequence. Speaker 6 (10:38) Yes. Speaker 8 (10:38) You only really need to see the start and end of an action sequence to be able to follow the plot of the film. But for an action scene, the action is the real reason that you're there. In the latest Mission Impossible, Run P suggested the best time to go to the bathroom was during the submarine dive sequence. which was one of the standout sequences of the film, and in my view, not to be missed. You'd be better off going to the toilet during one of the explainy dialogue sequences, or in the case of Mission Impossible 8, just arrive one hour after the film started. Tiggity-tong, down with the usual suspects. Thank you, Ryan. Yeah, I suppose the algorithm there, even if it's just a person, Speaker 2 (11:12) has got it slightly wrong. Because if you're going to a Mission Impossible film, for example, as it does action better than most films... you're not going to want to miss any of the action sequences, are you? Speaker 1 (11:22) No, exactly. Because as you said, the action-y bits are what you're paying for. Speaker 8 (11:28) Yeah, I think you're going to have to take a water bottle and do that probably. I think that's... Or just don't drink any fluid for 24 hours, not medically approved. Don't drink anything before you go. Speaker 1 (11:38) You're just suggesting that in general, are you? Speaker 4 (11:40) Yes. Correspondence at COVIDamere.com. Tell us something that's out that might be interesting. Okay, so Extra Geography, which is an adaptation of a Speaker 6 (11:49) 2007 story by Rose Tremaine, very celebrated Rose Tremaine. This is directed by Molly Manners and features two dynamite breakout performances from Molly Duggan and Galaxy Clear. They play Flick and Minna, who are inseparable best friends at an upmarket boarding school, both of whom have got their sights firmly set on Oxbridge. Speaker 1 (12:12) They are... closer than sisters. You know that way that when you're school friends, you're completely in sync. You're almost finishing each other's sentences. Although right from Speaker 6 (12:20) the beginning, there is a suggestion of rivalry. When they play hockey, they play hockey to win. And they love the fact that they get celebrated for winning the hockey. And they look down on the world. They look down on their classmates, like needy Phoebe, on teachers, and especially on boys who they all agree are absolutely horrid. Until auditions come up for a school play. Midsummer Night's Dream, which is going to involve boys from the boys' school. And Flickermint aren't interested in plays, but their resumes, in order to get them into Oxbridge in the future, require broad outlook. So they read the play and they discover that the play is about love, which they know nothing about. So in order to improve their CVs and make themselves more likely to get parts in the play, they decide that what they're going to do... is they are going to make as their summer project, falling in love. And then using as a template, the play itself, they agree that what they're going to do is they're going to walk into the classroom and the first person they see, they are going to fall in love with. And the first person they see turns out to be mousy Antipodean geography teacher, Miss Delavigne, with whom they then proceed and indeed compete to fall most completely in love. Here is a clip from the trailer. you Speaker 7 (13:43) What'll happen if we don't get into Oxbridge? Maybe we'll just... die. Speaker 7 (13:51) Thank God we're here. Finished. Not getting distracted by like drugs and boys. Speaker 7 (14:01) Horrid. Speaker 7 (14:05) What are you gonna do for your summer project this year? It's a secret. God feed me. What if we like fall in love? Make it our summer project. We fall in love with the first person we see. Hello Fleck. Hello Minna. Speaker 1 (14:21) All they know about love is what they've read in books. And that, you know, they read in book because they go to the library and they get all that about all these romantic books. And they discover that love makes your heart flutter and it makes your pulse race and it fills you with longing, but it Speaker 6 (14:32) also fills you with pain and heartache. And they're going, well, are we feeling these things about Miss Delavigne? Meanwhile, the play brings boys into their lives. Yeah, exactly. But the presence of boys. Also further obscures the fact, ugh, horrid, obscures the fact that if there is a love story in them, you know, here it's playing out right under their noses. Now I have to say, I, I loved this film. I thought it was simultaneously innocent and knowing and arch yet sincere and funny, but also kind of heartbreaking. I was looking at some reviews afterwards because I did an interview with the filmmakers. So other people have compared it to films like Lady Bird, Booksmart, Francis Ha. I think it's closer to kind of the spikier productions like, you know, Heathers or Mean Girls or Clueless. And for me, tonally, it falls somewhere between the kind of brilliant, awkward teen evocations of Richard Ioade's Submarine and that sort of sublime swooning of Carol Morley's The Falling, which I love and which is a film which is very inspired by Picnic at Hanging Rock. And that kind of strange dreaminess is in this, although this is much more in a kind of... comedic register. I mean, this has got mystery, but it's also got that thing that the very best films have, which is recognition. I am a 63 year old man and watching this, I felt at times like, oh, I understand what the feelings of these people who are completely alien to me because I have never, unless you never noticed, I have never been a teenage girl, but I think, yeah, I recognize that. And I, I love the fact that cinema at its best. can do that. I mean, I thought this was, I thought it was charming, but it's also quite daring. It absolutely nails the fact that when you're young, the attachments that you make to people and to things and to projects is heightened. You know, what's that in the open portal phrases, when your portals are open and you're feeling everything in a kind of really sort of heightened way. I also thought it reminded me of probably not anybody else of, do you remember that? I was talking about that Julia de Cornell film, Raw. which looks like it's a film about cannibalism, but it isn't a film about cannibalism. It's a film about sibling rivalry. This isn't about falling in love with your geography teacher. What it's actually about is it's about the heart-rending pains of young friendship and coming of age. And, you know, in the same way as the best Bill Forsyth evocations of this, it just gets it right. I mean, it's a real marvel. Raise the Roof at Sundance. It really deserves to do the same in UK cinemas. I thought it was terrific. It's called Extra Geography. And I thought it was really something special. So when is this set? Apparently 2003. Speaker 2 (17:18) So I imagine they've done that because there's no mobile phonage. So, you know, it's just when you said they learn all, all they know about love is from books. Speaker 1 (17:30) Oh, yes, I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I Speaker 2 (17:31) would have thought everything they know about love is from the internet. ChatGBT. Well, ChatGBT now and TikTok certainly, but do they not look at the internet at all? Speaker 1 (17:39) No, no, it's books. No, it's absolutely books. Absolutely books. Books and plays and stuff like that. Speaker 2 (17:44) Okay. All right. I just thought they'd have been online and checking out that kind of thing. You know how it is. No, it's Speaker 1 (17:50) definitely books. They go to the library and they take out every romance novel they can find and then they sit and read them. And then they write in their notebooks. with pens. Speaker 8 (18:01) Okay. Still to come after the break, if indeed there is one, because if you're patron, then you don't get a break. The box office top 10, Verity, Digger, Aaron Sorkin, and a quick reminder that there are only a few tickets left for our Christmas special, which this year is at the Bristol Beacon on December the 6th. So if you'd like the chance to experience our 90s Christmas death match, then head to the address on the show notes, which is. Speaker 8 (18:28) http://www.fane.com Full stop. F-A-N-E dot co dot UK forward slash Kermode hyphen N hyphen Mayo. Wow. Or just, you know, I Speaker 4 (18:43) think that was pithy, don't you? It's embedded Speaker 1 (18:47) in my memory now. Speaker 4 (18:48) It's got a comma after Speaker 8 (18:49) fame, which is not right. That Speaker 1 (18:51) can't be right. You can't have a comma