Why Watches Have to Be Seen in Person

Keeping Seconds

In the inaugural episode of Keeping Seconds, Michael Berrios and Noah Williams discuss the profound impact of seeing watches in person versu

Key takeaways

• The 'buy the seller' concept is vital for microbrand enthusiasts because personal connection drives support for independent makers.
• Photography often fails to capture critical details like anti-reflective coating behavior or true proportions on the wrist.

Main topics

• In-person vs. digital watch viewing
• Microbrand business models

Notable quotes

When you're supporting an independent brand... to a large degree, you are buying the seller.

Conclusion

A heartfelt exploration of how community and physical presence define

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:00) When you're supporting an independent brand, when you're supporting a micro brand, to a large degree, you are buying the seller. They've put together a product. They've designed something that's caught your eye. Speaker 2 (0:17) Well, welcome to Keeping Seconds. I'm Michael Berrios, and I've spent the last few years on the other side of the watch you're wearing. Designing, developing, working with manufacturers, movements, and tariffs, pricing, and really just learning the process and how many actual decisions happen before the timepiece really ends up on your wrist. And most weeks, I'll be joined by my pal here, Noah Williams. Noah, hello. Speaker 1 (0:45) How's it going? I take pictures of said watches. I don't design them, but I have shot well over a thousand at this point if I was keeping good track of Speaker 2 (0:55) it. Speaker 1 (0:55) Yeah, it's quite a Speaker 2 (0:57) few for certain and certainly don't downplay any of your expertise here. A talented photographer, writer, longtime voice of both the horological and men's fashion worlds. So I appreciate you joining me as we barrel through this. Finally get it to happen. Absolutely. Now, Noah, you and I met years and years ago through watches, incredibly indirectly and by happenstance through a Seiko SKX at Speaker 1 (1:27) a coffee shop here in Charlotte. That needs to be a deep dive, I think, on a different episode. But yeah, there's a really fun story there. I think we'll be cool to tell at some point. I think it would be fun, Speaker 2 (1:40) I think, for certain. How life has changed for both of us in the midst and the watch club and all these wonderful things. And it's really been great. So, you know, there's the design. There's how a watch fits a certain people's style, why we connect with certain watches, and frankly, how the industry talks about all of it. And that's why I'm really excited to do this and why I'm excited to do it together. You know, we've arrived at watches from pretty different directions. I've spent a lot of time thinking about what happens before. The watch ends up on the wrist. And from your perspective, I get to see everything that happens afterward, right? And how people experience it, collect it, photograph it, wear it. And I think that just really adds to the fun of our two perspectives here Speaker 1 (2:25) of keeping seconds. Absolutely, man. Yeah, I think it, you know, we've been friends, like you said, for many years. And I think. There's something so cool and there's an art form to the manufacturing and like the art of getting the thing put together. And then there's also an art to, you know, the distribution and the marketing and the sales on the back end. So I think it's, it's a cool thing. And I like to think we have similar perspectives on watches, but I look forward to, you know, in this conversation and others kind of saying, you know, where those paths kind of split at times and then kind of come back together. Speaker 2 (3:00) Hopefully we don't disagree on two too much, considering we share a lot of watches between each other and screenshots, certainly. We do. We absolutely do. And so a lot of excitement for the perspective that we both bring here is, you know, there are a ton of places out there to find a press release and how many different colorways, 39 millimeter, 46 lug to lug watch comes in. and the thickness and the movement and these types of things. And that's not the expectation here. You know, what I'm excited to chat about is why does something work? Why doesn't it? What influenced a decision? Where was the trade-off? What compromises probably happened along the way? And what makes a great watch different from a great product or a great product different from a great business? So I should be incredibly upfront on both of our behalves here. and say that this is certainly not going to be a gossip industry, gossip show whatsoever. You know, we're not here to burn brands or tell you everything that happens behind closed doors. But having actually been behind some of those doors from both of our lenses, it changes the questions you ask. And the years that we've put into this and thinking seriously about watches, it changes the questions that you bring to the conversation. And that's really what I'm looking forward to getting to dive into with Keeping Seconds. Speaker 1 (4:22) Like Huberman Labs always kind of says, this is not representative of our day jobs. You know, we do both have various roles in the industry and other cool industries. And these are our personal beliefs and ideas. Speaker 2 (4:37) Entirely. That's absolutely right. So before we dive deep into what those beliefs and ideas are, we have to do it. Noah, what is on the wrist? What did you grab today, my Speaker 1 (4:47) friend? So I thought it would be fun for the inaugural. podcast to do one of our shared pieces. And we're recording this on a Sunday. And this to me is such a fun Sunday watch. What do you think? I think you've probably already gotten a look at it, but what do you think is on the wrist? Speaker 2 (5:06) It's got to be the Pepsi. Speaker 1 (5:07) Surely. No. Wait. Is it? It's green. The OP. Yes, sir. The OP41. So I want to walk through. First off, this is everything good about Rolex. You know that I've made the analogy a million times that when you're talking about Rolex, you know, the automotive equivalent is, you know, Porsche and the 911. And, you know, the Boxster is sort of seen as the entry level car. And that's where. I see the Oyster Perpetual as well, but entry level, you know, when it comes to a piece like this is so reductive really, because this is a hundred meter water resistant, fantastic watch that does everything you will ask of it. And what I especially love, this could be one watch collection, period, and just move on and you're probably better for it. But if you are like us and you aren't, this slots in so wonderfully on a weekend. And it does that because again, it's time only. There's no date, there's no complications, there's no GMT, you know, chronograph, meta repeater, whatever. It's just a watch. And I think working, you know, in the industry now full-time for the better part of nine months now, part-time for, you know, a decade, I like simplicity on the weekend. You know, the Pepsi, the other watch that you mentioned that we have in common, you know, that's the nine to five watch. That is the watch that has functionality. It just feels good on the wrist, right? It goes with a variety of things and gives you that pop of color. But the OP to me is such a fun thing. And that was, you know, again, get into it some other episode probably, but the wedding watch as well. And you were the best man at that wedding. So I thought that would be a fun one to kick us off with. Well, I'm not Speaker 2 (6:52) wearing that watch, nor am I wearing a watch from the wedding. But no, man, you're absolutely right. The OP, it's your true one watch collection if you could do it. And I wish that I was that person 99 % of the time. You know, it does everything that you need it to. I've been scuba diving in my OP despite the fact that it's technically not. certified for scuba it very much michael it's not a Speaker 1 (7:22) submariner how could it possibly go Speaker 2 (7:24) underwater you could not imagine that my open water basic certification through the kind folks at ssi does not certify me to go past 100 meters and if it did i'm not certain that i or or any other well-intentioned recreationalists would be able to but it really it does a great job the The watch, I mean, a couple summers ago, we had fun where I remember putting it on a light blue NATO strap that was tough to find because it was 21 millimeters and I was super upset. And then you start to get in and you're like, hold on, this is actually really great. Speaker 1 (7:58) And, you know, I think there is an argument for, you know, the Rolex Explorer is a similar kind of case where it's that, you know, time only, robust, rugged, and that's in the professional series. But I mean. To me, I think the color, you have the black, which is beautiful and just wonderfully simplistic. Speaker 1 (8:18) what is it a good design is the lack of design or whatever that's right yeah yeah the lowest common denominator i don't know but point being you know the colors are fun as well and i think for me you know grain is a very symbolic color you know my relationship with my wife and it was the engagement watch and then like i said the wedding watch so that's that's what we did there but i saw an integrated bracelet and yeah i think i know what you're wearing are we wearing an iwc this evening Speaker 2 (8:47) We are. It is the only integrated bracelet that I have, so it makes it very, very easy for you, sir. But yes, I am wearing the Ingenieur 40 in blue, and this has very, very quickly turned into the absolute favorite in the collection, dare I say that aloud. It's unbelievable. It's a great watch. Speaker 1 (9:10) It's a great watch and IWC did it so well with the ability to add on that bracelet that has micro adjust because in the very limited experience I've had in owning, you know, integrated deal sports watches, the fit is always so difficult, man. And I think, you know, I was watching a video with Teddy Balthazar and he had the Aqua one on and he was kind of going over his time with it. Shout out to Teddy, a really nice guy. And you know, it does look better without the clasp. I agree. How it comes from factory, just it flows nicer. But man, the functionality you get and even just outside of the necessary functionality, but the mental, again, for us nerds, the mental option to go, if I need to adjust this, I can. I just think it's so great on that watch. Even Aorus has a, even Aorus at under, what is it? One of the pro pilots. It's like under three grand and it has on one side that, you know, three mil or so thing. Yeah, I don't get it. And I think it's a big miss. And I think, you know, we're going to get into a number of independent companies here in a minute. But I think the benefit of being, you know, these bigger brands is you have such a great established product. People will just buy it. you know, we forget about. you know, the mass of the watch market, 95%, if not more, are not enthusiasts. There are people that got a promotion, got some extra cash, had, you know, a parent or grandparent who had a thing and they want to get it. They walk into the store, they buy one, and then they're happy for the next 10 years until they get the next big promotion or whatever. You know, I think the incredible thing that we've seen in micro brands over the last few years is that they have to adapt because it is not a known entity until a certain point. You know, once you get a number of models out, that's great. And it's, you know, the Christopher Wards of the world, the, you know, take your pick. FormX now, I feel like is even more active out there. But, you know, you got to earn that dollar and you got to work harder. And I don't have to tell you that, you know, coming from being in the industry, you know, you understand that you have to innovate. But, you know, getting back to IWC, they do the option. I think it's, I don't, So it comes on the Mark 20 and then I think it just happens to fit that? That's correct. Now, Speaker 2 (11:39) we'll use IWC maybe to pivot a bit. We talked about the heritage pulling, the catalog that they can pull their inspiration from, that they can relaunch these things. Micro brands largely do not have that. that luxury, you know, and so to your point of some of the brands you brought up, the Christopher Wards, the Formexes, some of my other pals in the industry, right? Everybody has to exercise some ingenuity to bring something to the market because there's not a catalog to pull from of 50, 60, 70, 80 years of heritage and so on. So with that, we're coming on the heels of Intersect Charlotte. Here, Noah, you graced us with your presence and I was so happy to get to see you. Tell me what stuck with you most from the show now that we're about a week or so out. You Speaker 1 (12:30) know, I answer that, but the more interesting response is really from you because obviously we'll dive into it, but that was your last one, you know, with Bernhardt and there's a great story there. But, you know, I think it is such a cool thing. So I take for granted a lot in Charlotte with the Carolina Watch Club. We have such a great community of guys that get together. on a monthly basis. Maybe don't make it to everyone. I certainly don't. So call it every other month. And, and, you know, we're really spoiled and I forget about that quite a lot. So when I was there, I always go on the Friday night because the Saturday makes me a bit claustrophobic with the amount of people that are in there because they are pushing fire code. I can tell you they, and it's God bless. I mean, that is amazing that the interest is there and that people are coming to it. It really gets me excited, but. For my purposes, I like to go on the Friday night. I like a little bit more kind of, you know, in the week with sort of a fun event. It was fascinating. So street parking there is two hours and I refused to go to the parking deck and pay $25. So I parked on the street. All I needed was two hours. So I'm riding down in the elevator with a gentleman and his wife I never met before never seen