Angie Martinez IRL - Snow Tha Product: Build a Life That Actually Feels Like Yours

Joe and Jada

Angie Martinez sits down with Latin Grammy-nominated independent artist Snow Tha Product to explore her journey from a first-generation Mexican-American

Key takeaways

• Snow Tha Product left Atlantic Records early in her career to remain fully independent, managing her own brand without a traditional label or manager.
• Diagnosed with ADHD in middle school, Snow discusses how neurodivergence fuels her creativity but also contributed to periods of anxiety and depression.

Main topics

• Independent music career and industry navigation
• First-generation Mexican-American identity and family dynamics

Notable quotes

"I want to have my cake and eat it too. I want all of it. I want the peace and I want the crazy. I want the chaos. I want the anxiety."

Conclusion

The episode offers a raw, reflective look at how Snow Tha Product has

Transcript preview

Speaker 3 (0:00) This is an iHeart Podcast. Speaker 3 (0:02) Guaranteed human. Speaker 8 (0:04) Hi, this is Kylie Brakeman, Angela Geratana, Jeremy Speaker 7 (0:07) Colhane, Patrick McDonald, and Speaker 8 (0:08) we're the hosts of the Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists podcast, the Speaker 7 (0:12) improvised character comedy podcast, where each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft. Join us for a panel of Eurovision participants. Speaker 8 (0:21) And we do a little Halloween sometimes. Does the Pope dress up? He Speaker 7 (0:25) winks on Halloween. He gets right up next to the microphone. Speaker 8 (0:28) I hear you can almost hear the eyelashes hit each other. Speaker 7 (0:31) You've never seen Italy so quiet as when the Pope gets up to wink on Halloween. Speaker 8 (0:36) Listen to Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Speaker 3 (0:44) I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess Podcast. The true crime comedy podcast all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Each week I bring on an amazing guest. Speaker 7 (0:56) Ooh, I scammed him. What? I could talk to you for an hour. Speaker 3 (0:59) You're a generational yapper, like me. That's why I had to make yapping a job. And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube. Start listening to Scam Goddess on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Speaker 3 (1:14) So like by age 11 or so, at least 70 % have a phone. Speaker 6 (1:19) I'm Dr. Joy, and this is Therapy for Black Girls. We spin our surviving middle school run, getting into what's happening inside your kid's brain, the group chats and their friendships and what you can do about it. Speaker 7 (1:30) Your child is not doing this on purpose. Speaker 6 (1:32) That's the kind of perspective we've been pulling from the psychologists and psychiatrists who studied this for a living. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Speaker 4 (1:44) Bienvenido a La Bestia, donde los peloteros, artistas y creadores te cuentan qué fue lo que realmente les tomó llegar arriba y quedarse ahí. O me pongo a pensar, yo era un loquito, güey. Los mayores, no jodas, decía de todo. Dígame la vecina del frente, marico, cuando el CIE llegaba con la corneta de la música. Con Don Alacuña y Voces, que están corriendo el juego. Y empezaba a imitarlas y vainas, y ahí empezaron a salir los personajes. Escuchen iHeart Radio. Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. Speaker 5 (2:37) Listen to Betrayal Season 6 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Speaker 2 (2:44) Maybe I did live another life, you know, and it's like, maybe that's related to something else. Because I'll tell my girls sometimes, like, I'll see things that, like, in my dreams and stuff. And I'm like, I don't even think that's related to me. Like, I don't know what the fuck that is, but I don't know. I'm going to sound crazy if you make me talk long enough. I'm going to sound crazy. They're going to fucking lock me up. No. I Speaker 1 (3:01) don't think you sound crazy at all. Speaker 1 (3:08) Hey guys, thanks for watching. This episode is brought to you by Boost Mobile. Our guest today went from a mixtape that hit the Billboard Top Rap Albums chart to walking away from Atlantic Records to building her own, her own everything from scratch. She has millions of followers that she's grown when I find this fascinating, that she's grown with no manager, no label, still no manager, no label, no team, publicist. Speaker 2 (3:35) I mean, like my wife and my son are here. You know, yeah. Like I just recently got with a media company that's doing some of the publicity stuff, helping me out with different things. But no, none of that. However, you know, I'm not opposed to maybe someday finding the right manager. I just haven't. But Speaker 1 (3:52) I say all that to say that you really embody the spirit of an independent artist who's found their way. created an amazing following and has had a full career kind of on your own. Thank you. She's also been one of the most outspoken voices in hip hop on immigration, LGBTQ identity, mental health. She is a wife. She is a mother. She is Snow the product in real life today. Thank you. Hi Snow. Hi. I feel like we're Instagram friends. I know. I feel like I want to vibe with you in real life. And so I'm glad you're here today. I'm very glad to be here. But I've been following you. We've never met, but I've been following you. We follow each other. Isn't that funny how you could have? Speaker 2 (4:36) Yeah. Like, I feel like I kind of know you, but. Yeah. And it's been like years where it's like, you know, we kind of like think about like, we're like, okay, should we, let's meet up. And I think it's nice to see you. And it does feel like I know you. You know what I'm saying? But let's Speaker 1 (4:48) get to know each other. What I'm hoping for today is that. people who know you and follow you will get to know you at like maybe a little bit of a different level. And then people who don't know you could come to the party. Yeah. Yeah. God willing, you know? Yeah. Take me to the beginning. Like, how do you even like begin this career? I, Speaker 2 (5:04) when I was a little kid, my dad would make me sing mariachi when I was like really little kid. My dad sang mariachi, my grandpa, like, you know, in our family, it was always musical. It was always like, there's Speaker 1 (5:14) a Speaker 2 (5:14) get together. Everyone's singing like they're, you know, both Speaker 1 (5:16) your parents are from Mexico. Speaker 2 (5:17) Yeah. Yeah. And, um, so that's what it was. Uh, I. ran away from it for a long time. I kind of almost ran away from everything. My dad was a very like overbearing dude. So it was like everything he like pushed me to do. I was like rebelled at some point. I was like, I don't want to do that. Speaker 1 (5:32) Is he first generation here? Speaker 2 (5:34) Yeah. He's in Mexico. Both my parents are in Mexico. Oh, they're still in Mexico. Yeah. Well, they came here like kind of, I always say that like got, got citizenship and then left. So I was just like, what was all this for? You know, which is weird because it's like now I'm so outspoken about immigrants and I'm like, most of the immigrants I know left. So I'm like, what am I even doing? Like half the time, I'm arguing with myself. Like, what am I like, you know, but I guess anyway, we'll talk about that. But yeah, that ran away from it at some point. Start freestyling, start rapping, you know, hip hop, you know, you're listening to music and I think I could do it. Miss Lauren Hill, Big Pun, you know, Biggie, Pac, obviously, Andre 3000, Brat. Shawna, like, you know, Lil' Kim, like Missy, you know, it's just all the stuff that, I don't know, this good music. And I think I haven't left that vibe. When I put on music, I put on the same stuff I listened to my entire Speaker 1 (6:28) life, you Speaker 2 (6:29) know? So I don't know. Speaker 1 (6:30) You still now listen to it? To this Speaker 2 (6:32) day. Yeah. I haven't left that era of music. I, other than like Drake, I think, or like Bryson Tiller, like I listen to like more R &B stuff. Yeah. Speaker 1 (6:40) So, okay. So you're younger, you're listening to that and you try it. Try it. And you're like, nice right away? No, terrible. Speaker 2 (6:45) Yeah, no. Like, I think a couple of my bars, I kind of got the gist. And I've been listening to, like, the best, you know? So I'm just like, okay, this is how you form a bar. And this is how you do patterns. I was really obsessed with, like, percussion and drums. So it's like, I would just be like, okay, this is how you want to. And I don't know. That was it. Like, that's. just what I did and I felt good and I got to escape my life as it was while I was making it. I think it just became an escape and that's all. What were you Speaker 1 (7:15) escaping? Speaker 2 (7:17) I don't know. I was just, you know, I was first generation. Speaker 2 (7:22) American born granddaughter on two sides. You know, my mom's one of nine. My dad's one of nine. Huge family, just fully Mexican. Like everyone's just born in Mexico, raised in Mexico. That's it. I'm the first granddaughter that pops out. And I'm like, now born in the U.S. and like being raised here. And like, I'm hearing everyone telling me everything I'm doing is wrong. And you're just like. I don't know where to go. You know what I'm saying? And it's like, it's not like we have very much money or anything. So my dad's working two jobs. My mom's working. Like everyone, it starts to feel really alone. So I would literally just like make music, you know, or like write or like first it started off as like kind of like writing words, poetry, and then it just became rap. And then it became go to this showcase, go to this showcase. And you just kind of start, I don't know. And then I never stopped. I remember my mom said this. One time when I was in high school, she was like, you quit everything you do. She's like, you do things and then you quit and then you whatever. She's like, the next thing you do, just don't stop. Just go. Just do something. And it was rap. And I just never did. Wow. And Speaker 1 (8:22) that Speaker 2 (8:22) was it. You know, I don't know. I don't even know if sometimes I question myself. I'm like, is this what I really wanted to do? And I'm like. I don't know. I just kept going, you know, and then it eventually included my brother and my cousin and my family and my friends. And then it just became something that we all gathered around to create together. Like Speaker 1 (8:37) a community. You built a community. Yeah. So Speaker 2 (8:39) now I'm like, and now we all live together and we have a ranch and everybody lives on the property. And this is just all we know. This became really my life. How Speaker 1 (8:46) many people on this property? Speaker 2 (8:47) I mean, it's my aunt and her kid. It's my cousin, my brother, my wife, my son, all my animals. And here and there, whoever crashes, you know, like I have multiple places where you can crash if you want. Like some people stay for a while, two weeks. Some people don't. Speaker 1 (9:04) That is a whole vibe though. And Speaker 2 (9:06) there's music Speaker 1 (9:07) always Speaker 2 (9:07) happening? There's music. There's pool. There's a carna sala. There's just, you know, I have goats. I have chickens. I have dogs. And just trying to live in community, I think. You Speaker 1 (9:20) know what's so interesting? We always hear the story of like... The immigrant who has to deal as a child feeling out of place because they're here and language and all that. We don't really often too much hear the story of the first generation where your whole family and everybody else around you has lived a different experience. Yeah. And you're this little girl growing up here with this. American hip hop music as your influence and English was your second language? Second language. It was your second language, but you were probably one of the few in your family that were fluent, right? Speaker 2 (9:54) Yeah. I mean, well, when I was little, I didn't, my little brain didn't understand. that I was going to speak English. Like I thought I was just going to grow up to be like my mom. Like I was just going to speak Spanish. So my household was completely Spanish. And it wasn't until I think like, you know, as I start going to school and like kindergarten, first grade that I start speaking English as a second language, but I have an accent. And now, you know, people at school, like kids at school are making fun of how you say things. But then in, in at home, you can't speak English because then people think you think you're better than them. So it's like, you're just kind of like battling these two identities and constantly, um, doing that. But yeah, you're right. That's, that's a lot. It is a lot, you know, when you think Speaker 1 (10:34) about that, right? Speaker 2 (10:35) Yeah. Speaker 1 (10:35) Cause then you're not even young enough. You're too young to even process that. Speaker 2 (10:38) Yeah. You're just happy. You know what I'm Speaker 1 (10:41) saying? Speaker 2 (10:41) I was a happy hyper kid. Like I was just running around doing, doing a lot. And then yeah, life and society starts to kind of like limit you and control you. You can't do this and you can't do that. And you can't do this here. And if you do that there, you, you. can do it over here, but not over there. And you just start kind of like, you know, and obviously being neurodivergent and like having ADHD, it's like, it starts to feel like everything you're doing is wrong. And so you feel alone and it takes a while to, and I think that's what you start seeking that community, that, that vibe is like, okay, they don't like rap. So where do, where are the people who like rap? So I could go hang out with them. And you know, where are the people who. who want to make this type of music or do these type of things. And I think that's ultimately why a lot of times in Latino communities or Black and brown communities, we seek community and family outside of our own family. And it ends up sometimes, you know, being the streets or gangs or whatever. But it's because we're just looking for like-minded people to like hang out with and have fun. Speaker 1 (11:34) That likes the same shit we like. That's all. Yeah. And don't look at us like we're crazy. Yeah. So when you were young, did you, were you struggling with ADHD and all that? Or was that older that you kind of identified that? Speaker 2 (11:45) I think pretty young you could tell something was going on because I was just a lot. I was a lot. Even nowadays when I watch some of my baby videos, I'm like, oh, okay. I get my mom now sometimes. I was kind of annoying. I was just so much. But pretty early on, my mom, I think in elementary school, she started kind of being like, you have something. The good thing that I could give my mom props for is she always seeked help. for whatever we needed. I did go to therapy young. I did, you know, go get diagnosed with ADHD. I did, you know, they did try medicine. So I think that was good. It was good that my mom always kind of like seeked. Okay. What age is that? Um, like middle school. Speaker 1 (12:25) Yeah. Oh, that's pretty young. Speaker 2 (12:27) Yeah. And, um, I Speaker 1 (12:29) feel like there's so many people almost being misdiagnosed now. I feel like everybody. says ADHD so lightly. Yeah. Like if your kids just has a lot of energy or what, I just feel like people throw that around all the time versus clinically. Speaker 2 (12:41) Yeah. What that Speaker 1 (12:42) means or what that experience is or. Speaker 2 (12:44) Yeah. I Speaker 1 (12:45) don't know what does that mean for your life? Speaker 2 (12:46) Yeah. I Speaker 1 (12:47) don't know. I Speaker 2 (12:48) think, you know, and I'm going to like, because I've kind of lived with it and known that I have it and I've, I tried medicine and I didn't like it, you know, like, so I'm not someone who like, I don't think people should immediately go to like. taking that if you don't absolutely need it. Sometimes I will say that ADHD, when you're, when you're going unmedicated for a long time, it could turn into like, you know, depression. And I did suffer from a lot of that, like anxiety, depression, stuff like that. Um, but every time that I would kind of like try a medicine, it would have a. a reaction somewhere else and now you got to take something else for that so it's like the adhd medicine is giving me anxiety now the anxiety you got to take something else for that now you got to sleep you know so it's like it gets to a point where i was just like man i just drank coffee and prayed and kept pushing i was like that was it you know here and there i'll i'll be like all right i think i need to talk to my therapist and psychiatrist and get a little medicine or something to just level me out but other than that i'm like Speaker 1 (13:44) yeah okay you're managing we're Speaker 2 (13:46) we're going we're We're going rogue. Do Speaker 1 (13:49) you think it informs or helps you as a creative? Speaker 2 (13:52) I think it helps a lot. I think it helps a lot. I think ADHD and finding that superpower in creativity and hyperactive brain and ideas and just whatever, it helps you a lot creatively, but it does help to have a team around you of people who are not neurodivergent that could kind of like... bring it down, land it. You feel me? Cause I, I, I, and that's what I was saying about, like, I do wish I had, sometimes I do wish I had like a really good manager that can help me with some of this. Cause like, I have a lot of ideas and I spark a lot of things and I want to go here and there. And then sometimes I'm like, Oh shit, I'm 20 projects deep. And I don't know which one to finish, you know? And so, but my wife is very neurotypical. She's like, okay, here's Speaker 1 (14:31) the things you have this week. Break down these terminologies for me. Neurotypical? Neurotypical and neurodivergent. Yeah. Break down what those mean for somebody who doesn't know. For Speaker 2 (14:41) me? Well, for you, what does Speaker 1 (14:42) that Speaker 2 (14:42) mean to you? With Speaker 1 (14:43) ADHD, Speaker 2 (14:43) right? With ADHD, like I just have these, my brain tends to be very great and creative and have all these great ideas and I love it. And a lot of times what has ended up becoming what made my life work out. was those ideas. There was these sporadic, random, like, what if I do this? And then I did it. And then next thing you know, you know, I'm, I, you know, got a Latin Grammy nomination or I went viral again and we have a great song and, you know, streaming well and whatever. And sometimes when I'm not in that type of vibe, I'm just a blob. I'm just like, you Speaker 1 (15:19) know? Imagine somebody who's like, lives a very strict life with a strict family and is in a box for whatever reason. Speaker 1 (15:29) but they had their ADHD or neurodivergent, how that could go left without, without, I don't know, just the way to get it out. I Speaker 2 (15:39) think a lot of times that's what happens. It's like when you're in your child, right? Like I was saying, it's like, I was a little kid. I was happy. I was hyper. I'm moving around. I'm doing all these things or whatever. And it's like, then society tries to like push you into this box and then, you know what you can do, what you can't do. You're a woman. You need to do this. You need to, you know? And it's like, sometimes that's not. it. You want, you're a multifaceted, you know, person. And, um, and I think that does eventually turn into something problematic for a lot of people, but they're forced to, you know, you go to college and now you have to have a nine to five and you work for the man. And, you know, you just want to make enough money or put enough money in your retirement, your 401k to one day retire and finally be able to take that one big trip that you always wanted, you know, and that's life, you know, and it, I think. that sucks and i think if more people were free to do what they wanted and have those side hustles have those hobbies have those outlets those creative outlets more people would be happy and they would stop messing with other people's lives you know sometimes people are miserable so they want to just go around and you know can i cuss yes okay sorry shit on other people's life or you know and it's just like that's not what life was supposed to be you were supposed to just live free free You know, I think honestly, maybe everybody is a little bit neurodivergent and everybody is allowed to just feel whatever they feel. Probably more than Speaker 1 (16:58) that's been diagnosed for sure. Yeah. Speaker 2 (16:59) And I think that's why sometimes when I talk about this stuff, I say it because I see sometimes people parenting their kids and they're not giving them that freedom to do whatever they want to do. And I'm like, damn, like that kid right now, like, you know, is being seen as a bad kid. And it's like they really just need they need another outlet because. Speaker 1 (17:18) stimulated in different ways. Speaker 2 (17:20) Creative, you know, go do some things. Go get dirty, get muddy, like whatever. My kid, I would let him get dirty and he would be in a diaper just running around like whatever. Well, you know, take a shower. I think that's it. I think that's, yeah. Speaker 1 (17:35) Hey guys, so much of what we talk about on IRL is really about understanding the world that we're living in, like what's changing, what people care about, where this is all headed, because every day something happens that shifts the conversation. 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If you're somebody who pays attention to what's happening in the world and always has a prediction about what's coming next, you can check out Polymarket. You can deposit $10 and get a $50 bonus when you sign up with promo code Angie. That's polymarket.us. Promo code Angie for a $50 bonus on a $10 deposit. Okay, so now you're a kid. You find this creative thing and you're rapping and your family is like... Speaker 2 (19:08) Yeah. Yeah, we love it? Speaker 1 (19:10) Or what is this? Speaker 2 (19:11) No, like, well, already before, like I said, I seeked out people who were more like me because... You very quickly as a young kid, especially in first generation, you start seeing the colorism, the racism, the things within your own family, the not accepting of, you know, and you just start being like, that's wrong. Like, I don't like that, you know, or like going to school, learning certain things and then going home. and unlearning those things to learn what, you know, my dad, one thing that my dad did do for me was he taught me to be very proud, like indigenous and Mexican. And, you know, so sometimes when I'm going to school and they're teaching me about the missions and, you know, what they, they educated the indigenous people. And then my dad's like, they didn't educate them. They freaking locked them up. And then they, you know, took a lot of things from us, you know? So, so it's like, I'm. learning all these things, you know, and I'm learning about dinosaurs and how the world started and, you know, the big bang. And then my dad's like, no, it was Jesus. And I'm like, oh, shoot, like what? So it's like, I'm just in this constant push and pull. And so, I don't know, I think rap and music and frustration and talking about all this became something. So yes, once I was going to rap, I knew my family wasn't going to like it. And so that made me even more pulled away from. everything. Just go in my room and I would spend hours and hours and hours by myself. What Speaker 1 (20:27) were you rapping about? What were you writing about? Speaker 2 (20:30) Getting out of poverty. I mean, at the time I was a bad kid. I mean, I hope my son covers his ears, but I was doing bad. You know what I'm saying? I was like, I was, I was rebelling. Right. So I'm, you know, committing little crimes and going to juvenile hall and doing dumb things that I shouldn't have been doing. Just trying to find, I don't know. I was mad. I was angry. I was trying to figure out what life was about. So I'm rapping about everything. Speaker 1 (20:58) You're rebellious rapping too, right? Yeah. Fuck Speaker 2 (21:01) these people. Fuck them. Fuck everybody. I'm fucking poor. Like I'll rob you. Like I don't fucking care. Like, you know, so that's basically, yeah. Speaker 1 (21:10) So when did you, I don't know, at some point. When did you think this could be a career? Well, Speaker 2 (21:15) I tried to go to college for like two weeks. Two weeks. Nice. And then I got a parking ticket. Were Speaker 1 (21:21) you studying communication? No, psychology. Speaker 2 (21:23) I wanted to be a social worker because I got a lot of help. Like I said, my mom did get me that. I went to the teen center and then low-income housing. I was like, I want to do that for somebody. Especially after I decided. When I went to juvenile hall and did all this bad stuff or whatever. They had therapists in there and then they were just like, is this what you want for the rest of your life? Like you want to be locked up? Like you're, you say you're this rebellious person, but you want to be in here being told what to do every day, you know, whatever. And then they talk to you. 17, 16. Yeah. It was like right before, like, you know, it's like, they were like, you really, they're like, you do this again next year. You're going to prison. Like you're going to jail. And I was just like, then they were like, you know, your brother, think about your brother and that right there. Kind of. hurt me a lot because my brother, I've always been very close with it. So I was like, man, you know what? I got to do better. And then I just, I remember even reading the Bible and stuff and just being like, all right, like I promise God, I'm not going to do nothing bad. Just, you know, I knew that karma was coming. So I was just like, yo, God, please just forgive me for this. And I just will never do any of this ever again. I'll focus on whatever I got to focus. You're 17 having this conversation? Yes. With God, like real, like really just, I'm reading Proverbs. I'm like, really just like, I, I don't ever want this feeling again. You know, I felt like, I felt like shit. To be honest, like I just didn't. And then I'm looking at all my friends. And at that point, my friends are 18, 19, 20. They're going to jail. They're getting into meth now or different stuff. You know, first I was it was just like we're smoking weed. We're doing this. We're doing that. Now people are starting to do bigger things. And and I'm just like, oh, that's not really what I want. So then I just focus on the music. Start going to showcases. People start really being like, oh, you're good. Like, you're not just kind of good. You're good. And I was like. Nice. It felt good to get those compliments. You know, it felt good to be told I'm good at something. So it gives you like a purpose, Speaker 1 (23:06) right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 3 (23:11) I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess Podcast. The true crime comedy podcast all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Each week I bring on incredible guests like Conan O'Brien, Iowa Debris, Lamorne Morris, and Nicole Byer. Ooh, Speaker 7 (23:28) I Speaker 3 (23:28) scammed them. What? I could talk to you for an hour. You're a generational yapper, like me. That's Speaker 7 (23:33) why I had to make yapping Speaker 3 (23:34) a job. And the scams run the gamut. I'm talking about scams from the 1800s all the way up to today. I also warn you and keep you safe against scammers. Call your grandparents. Tell your parents to stop clicking on links, please. And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube. If there's a scam, I'm here to protect you. And I'm also here to laugh with you. So if you like fun, if you like comedy, and you like learning and protecting yourself from criminals, start listening to Scam Goddess on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Speaker 7 (24:34) So we don't like to use that word anymore. Okay. A panel of New Yorker cartoonists. Have you guys done Terry Gross' Peloton class yet? No! I've been dying to. I'm so sorry. I'm seeing a reading of Sadako and the Thousand Paper Cranes by Audra McDonald at the Wonderland Bookstore on 14th. Speaker 8 (24:53) That's crazy. I went to the Wonderland Bookstore yesterday and I heard Nora Jones do a reading of Zero Dark Thirty. No way. of the last bookstore, though. Kim Cattrall is reading the guitar tabs of yesterday. Speaker 7 (25:05) A panel of Eurovision participants. Speaker 8 (25:08) And we do a little Halloween sometimes. Does the Pope dress up? He winks on Halloween. Speaker 7 (25:14) He gets right up next to the microphone. Speaker 8 (25:15) I hear you can almost hear the eyelashes hit each other. Speaker 7 (25:19) You've never seen Italy so quiet as when the Pope gets up to wink on Halloween. Speaker 8 (25:24) Listen to Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Speaker 3 (25:31) By age 11 or so, at least 70 % have a phone. Speaker 6 (25:34) Middle school is a different world than the one we grew up in. I'm Dr. Joy, and this is Therapy for Black Girls. We spend real time on it in our surviving middle school run, bringing in a child psychologist and a psychiatrist who's raising two black girls of his own to talk about what's really going on with our kids right now. Speaker 7 (25:52) So it's literally physiological and neurological and psychological chaos happening all at the same time. Speaker 6 (25:58) We got into group chats and gaming, friendships and bullying, and how to tell the difference between healthy monitoring and the kind of surveillance that erodes trust. Speaker 7 (26:06) There's belonging. You could think of belonging as I can be myself and I can still be accepted. And then there's fitting in. Fitting in says I have to change who I am in order to avoid rejection. Speaker 6 (26:18) Then we turn the conversation toward the fathers, sitting down with therapist Keir Gaines on Black fatherhood and what it means to raise a daughter through this stage. Speaker 7 (26:26) You don't have Speaker 6 (26:27) on shorts, Speaker 7 (26:27) so you can't do flips. You have on a dresser, you have to cross Speaker 6 (26:30) your legs. That's the range of this run, from screen time to identity to the fathers doing the work at home. You Speaker 3 (26:35) have to get off your device. But the reality is there's a lot of life out there that we don't want you as your adults in your life to miss out on. Speaker 6 (26:43) This has been our Surviving Middle School run. Brought to you by the people who spend their careers thinking about exactly this. I'm Dr. Joy. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Speaker 4 (26:58) Yeah, esto es la bestia. Aquí no estamos hablando de Highlight, estamos hablando de lo que hay detrás. Ya como que, diablo, esto es pa' mí, ¿sabes? Y no era el momento, sino que tenía que practicar tres años seguidos para llegar a una firma. El trabajo, la presión. Speaker 4 (27:19) Ronald Acuña, along with ballers, artists, and culture figures, break everything. What did they have to do? What did they sacrifice? And how did they become the beast? Everyone does not make great leagues. Well, I did not have the opportunity, but thanks to you, yes. Speaker 4 (27:40) No, Mari, ¿cómo llora tan temprano? Porque sí, todos quieren ese nivel, pero no todos entienden lo que cuesta. Esto es real. Esto es sin filtro. Sin excusas. Escucha a la bestia en My Cultura Podcast Network, en iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, o donde sea que escuche podcasts. Speaker 7 (28:00) Hey, everybody. It's me, W. Kamau Bell. This season of my podcast, who's with me, I speak with two-time Emmy winner and weirdly one of my best friends, Kevin Avery. Everything up to that point, Bill G was a comic. Us going on the road, doing Battle Mountain and Ely and all Speaker 1 (28:15) this shit. Yeah, you Speaker 7 (28:15) were one of the first people who took me on the road, which is funny because at the time I was like, I don't know if I like this guy. With rapper, actor, Daveed Diggs. The jump off for me was Hamilton, and it was the most popular thing. In a very long time. But it was still, for me, it was me and my friends making something dumb. Bruce Lee's daughter and Brandon Lee's sister, Shannon Lee. Speaker 6 (28:38) Back to your initial point of stewarding my father's legacy and giving my energy to that. You're lending your life to stewarding somebody else's life. Speaker 7 (28:50) Listen to Who's With Me with Debbie Quambelle on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Speaker 2 (29:02) And then I just low key, like I just keep going. And then I start and then I find the Internet. So then that's when, you know, MySpace and YouTube and that piff and, you know, the two dope boys and blogs and, you know, and then eventually I get on Worldstar. That'll do it for you. And Speaker 1 (29:21) then you start get popping. Yeah. Speaker 2 (29:22) Worldstar posts back then. Like, yeah, they're going to they're going to drag you to hell, but they're going to they're going to get those views up and you're going to get something going. So. Like that feeling that. that negative, just trying to run away from it. So I always put it into rap and put it into music and put it into being creative or whatever. And then sometimes I would just run away physically. I would just, you know, go to Mexico or dip. Like, cause I always grew up, you know, between Northern California or Southern California, or, you know, then I moved to Texas and then going to Mexico. It's like, I've always kind of like had that feeling of just like running away. And eventually. You really don't run away anymore. You're just kind of sitting in it. And I think that's kind of where I'm at right now. It's like, I don't think physically running away from anything is going to do anything. The world's becoming smaller. The more, you know, the more internet and the more I can travel, I can buy a ticket anywhere right now. The world just became a lot smaller. So now you're just like, okay, so what the hell am I? So I think that's where I'm at right now is like trying to figure out what it's, what it's always been. It was fun. It's been fun to make music. It's been fun to. Speaker 1 (30:22) Tour and probably tour Speaker 2 (30:24) and go just keep going. And eventually you just kind of sit there and be like, damn, in Speaker 1 (30:28) the quiet. That scares people. I'm surprised therapy hasn't pointed that out. It does. Speaker 2 (30:34) But it's almost like. How do I say this? I've been able to, I could say it to you. I could tell you right now what I know it is. And I'm, it doesn't solve it. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm like, I know what it is. I know what I'm kind of like, I can pinpoint these things at this point. I can put it into words and it's just like, so maybe, so maybe it's not that. I don't know. Maybe it's something else, but I just don't. see it i don't know but i think that's what life is right it's like you it's that constant wanting i mean as humanity we've always like wanted to improve something wanted to make something better wanted to discover something wanted to find something like it's i think that's what pushes us forward as like humanity um i don't know if you don't have hope or if you don't have somewhere to go then you just kind of sit there and just wait it's kind of like when old people like retire and then they just sit there they don't have a purpose anymore and they just kind of like get sick and die like that's sad That is Speaker 1 (31:27) depressing. That's depressing. You Speaker 2 (31:29) just Speaker 1 (31:29) depressed me. Speaker 2 (31:31) Like, so, so you don't know. So then we keep going, you know, it's like, that's why people like garden or do things or build things or, you know, it's like, I think about it. I