'Tony' Rewrites Anthony Bourdain's 'Kitchen Confidential' (with Tim Carman)

It Was A Book First

This episode of 'It Was a Book First' explores A24's mini-adaptation 'Tony,' a film based on Anthony Bourdain's memoir 'Kitchen Confidential.' Hosts Sophie

Key takeaways

• The film 'Tony' captures Bourdain's formative years as a young chef learning to shuck oysters in Provincetown, emphasizing authenticity over myth.

Main topics

• Anthony Bourdain's life and legacy
• Adaptation of 'Kitchen Confidential' into 'Tony'

Notable quotes

'He wasn't a saint. He wasn't a saint. And I wish we could just let him be human again.' – Tim Carman

Conclusion

While 'Tony' offers a grounded, intimate look at Bourdain's early days, the episode underscores the

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:09) I'm Sophie and I love books. Speaker 3 (0:11) I'm Rudy and I love movies. And this is It Was a Book First, the podcast about new book to screen adaptations. Today, we're headed to Provincetown and learning to shuck oysters as we discuss Tony. A24's new mini-adaptation of Anthony Bourdain's acclaimed memoir Kitchen Confidential. Directed by Canadian filmmaker Matt Johnson, Tony stars Dominic Sessa as the acclaimed chef, writer, and TV host during the summer he spent learning to work in a kitchen in Provincetown, Massachusetts. The film also stars Antonio Banderas, Stravos Halkias, Amelia Jones, and Leo Woodall. Speaker 1 (0:47) If you're new here, Rudy and I are culture reporters, and on this podcast, we discuss the page-to-screen adaptations that everyone's talking about. I read the book, we both watch the TV or movie, and then we discuss the differences and what we thought of the new adaptation. And yes, that means there will be spoilers throughout for the film Tony, as well as for all of Kitchen Confidential the memoir. Speaker 3 (1:07) Later in this episode, we'll be joined by a special guest, Tim Carman, a longtime food reporter and critic at The Washington Post, who actually appeared in an episode of Bourdain's No Reservations TV show and recently wrote the piece, What the Anthony Bourdain Biopic Misses About His Life and Legacy. But before we get into Tony. We're going to appropriately, I think, start in New York, where Bourdain lived when he wasn't traveling the world. So I was in the city last weekend, and Sophie and I got to meet up in person for the first time since a corporate retreat in 2024. It was so good to see you, Sophie. Speaker 1 (1:43) It was so good to see you, too. Honestly, Rudy, I think this is the first time we've ever gotten to hang out without having to do like... OKR goal building activities and like icebreakers. And so it was just a pleasure to meet your wife and to just walk around with you guys and chit chat. Yes, Speaker 3 (2:00) we got to walk around Central Park. I got to meet Simon. And I think some of our listeners know, but maybe not all of our listeners know that Simon is the democratically elected dog mayor of New York. And I got to. watch him really listen to the concerns of his constituents. And it was very funny. I mean, Simon got recognized several times on our walk, which was very amusing. Speaker 1 (2:21) Yeah. It's always ridiculous to be with people when that happens. It's like, yes, my dog is a local niche celebrity. This is my life. But yeah, it was really fun to get to talk about. I think we worked really hard to not talk about Tony on purpose, knowing we were going to record this, which was tough. Speaker 3 (2:39) Yes, it was. And unfortunately, your boyfriend, Kevin, couldn't join us on our walk, but I did get to meet him. Kevin, who designed our website. Shout out, Kevin. I got to meet Kevin later that evening at a concert that we were both attending in. Rudy, Speaker 1 (2:57) do you want to tell people the concert journey just very briefly that you've been on the last 10 days? Speaker 3 (3:03) I've kind of been on tour for the last 10 days following one of my favorite bands, King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard. If you listen to our Margot's Got Money Troubles episode way back when we launched a couple months ago, you'll hear me shout them out because they have a song in that show. But yeah, I followed them. They're an Australian band that has 28 albums. They do all sorts of different genres. They're super fun. And I went to Colorado for their festival for a couple nights with a friend of mine from college. And then I did four nights in New York, one of which was when I got to meet Kevin. And it was really fun. They were great shows. The last two were rave shows because they're in a techno phase right now. So they're making like... EDM techno rave music with an analog synthesizer and it's like crazy weird fun stuff. But I also did some movie stuff in New York because of course and one of them was I saw this movie. Maybe you've heard of it Sophie. It's called The Odyssey. Speaker 1 (4:00) Rudy what number time is this for you at this point? Third time. Speaker 3 (4:03) Third time. Speaker 1 (4:04) I thought it was going to be higher. Speaker 3 (4:05) Still a charm. I got to see it in IMAX 70 millimeter. at the Lincoln, AMC Lincoln Square, which was incredible. This was Lauren's first time, my wife Lauren, her first time going to that theater. And it's just this gigantic, you know, like 80 foot or 100 foot tall screen. It's crazy. And I think it was interesting watching it for a third time because the first time is, you know, we talked about on two recent episodes that if you're new, go check those out. We've talked extensively about this movie. The first time was very much. okay, I'm absorbing everything and like trying to make sense of it. The second time I was like, yeah, this movie rules. Third time it was like, wow, I'm like watching like a classic that I feel like I've seen like so many times. Like at this point it was like, I feel like this movie was like years old because it was just like, I knew all the beats and like the big difference was getting to see it on film on this giant screen with people who I think were seeing it for the first time. I think there were a handful of people who had not seen it yet because the way they were reacting was like. they were just seeing it unfold for the first time. So very cool to get to do that at a 10 a.m. Friday, essentially sold out screening at the AMC there. That's Speaker 1 (5:18) how God intended it. Speaker 3 (5:19) Exactly. And then I also squeezed in one more movie at Film at Lincoln Center. So not to be confused with Lincoln Square, although they are very close to each other. This is a wonderful series of theaters. I think they have three screens in two different locations that shows a lot of indie and foreign and smaller films. And they were actually screening, speaking of another recent episode, they were screening Late Fame in one of the two screens in the theater that I was in. And then I went to see Kiyoshi Kurosawa's new movie, The Samurai and the Prisoner. This is a... Japanese film. And unlike most of the movies that I mentioned at the top of an episode, this one is actually based on a book. It's based on a 2021 novel of the same name by, I'll butcher this person's name, but Hanobu Yanazawa, I believe is the author's name. It's based on historical events. It's kind of like a thinking man's samurai movie. It follows this. Japanese lord whose castle is under siege by a warlord. It's not violent. It's not super action packed. I mean, there is violence, but it's not like this swords and fighting kind of movie that a lot of samurai movies are. Instead, it's more like palace intrigue, a little bit of morality play. And it actually begins as a whodunit. So the lord is investigating a series of murders that take place within his castle. So it's kind of this like interesting, I've heard it compared to Columbo, a little bit of that. There's some like kind of silly things that happen, but it's mostly a very serious kind of meditative, sprawling and very novelistic film that is beautifully shot, really well staged, great performances. And I really enjoyed it. I'd be curious to know a little bit about the adaptation changes. Speaker 3 (7:13) But it feels like a novel. It has this long sort of arc and takes place over several different seasons. And yeah, really enjoyed getting to see it in this very cool theater that clearly appreciates cinema and tries to keep it alive and get it out there for New Yorkers. So I had a really fun time in New York and was glad we got to see each other. Glad I got to take in some movies along with the music. So now. Let's talk about Anthony Bourdain, who I think is a figure that looms large for both of us. You know, if you somehow don't know who Anthony Bourdain is, I mean, he is a... Are you Speaker 1 (7:52) listening? Well, Speaker 3 (7:53) no, he's a writer who became a chef, who became a TV host, and kind of became a travel journalist, really, in his final act. And is, I think, one of the most beloved, also controversial... figures who really changed how we think about food, not only what is like on the plate, but what food can do for people and communities and how people kind of literally break bread. And that's one of the most fascinating things about him and his career. And Sophie, I'm curious to hear about your... background with Bourdain and how you came to sort of know him? Speaker 1 (8:38) Yeah. I'm a huge Anthony Bourdain fan. I first came to him through early seasons of Top Chef. I just remember him being, I was a huge fan of that show, like seasons, let's say one through six. And he was one of my favorite guest stars as one of the guest judges on the show. He had such amazing one-liners and was really thoughtful in his critique and would sort of give it to them, but in a cool. respectful way. I just really liked his vibe. And I, this, uh, Parts Unknown, really his documentary series with, I think mostly with CNN is where it originally aired. Speaker 3 (9:14) Yes. It was no reservations on travel and then Parts Unknown on CNN. I Speaker 1 (9:18) watched those two shows. I've probably seen every episode at least once. It was my background relaxing TV or my like coming home drunk from the bar TV a lot in my 20s. And especially I think at a time in my life, I was really fortunate to travel a lot earlier in my life with my family and then was, you know, really broke in my 20s and couldn't really go anywhere. And so it was just such an exciting way to sort of explore the world. It made me want to go places so much. I first read Kitchen Confidential, I think, in 2020, I want to say. Oh, wow. So Speaker 3 (9:55) after he died? Speaker 1 (9:56) Yeah. Much later, I remember his death. I was sort of like, why have I not read this book? It was talked about so much. And I'm sure, you know, I wouldn't be surprised if you're like me. I think his death was one that really impacted me and a lot of people in a way that was not that... we're not used to celebrity deaths affecting us in odd ways. We don't always understand why we're grieving for. But I think that one in particular, there was a post online at the time that has always stuck with me, which is everyone wanted to be him and he didn't want to be himself. Speaker 2 (10:30) And Speaker 1 (10:30) that has always just really hit me in the gut and made me have so much just context for the way I view him and his work. And I will just say, going into all of this, If you have not read Kitchen Confidential, separate from anything we're going to talk about it in the context of this movie, please go read this book. Oh, it's a great book. And please go get the audio Speaker 3 (10:53) book Speaker 1 (10:53) because he reads it. And the gift of having him read that book and his experiences, it is a joy. I went back to re-listen to the chapters for this episode and just. kind of kept going for a while and ended up listening to another like three hours of it before remembering I had other things on my to-do list to listen to. It is an all-time great memoir. Speaker 2 (11:18) Yeah. Speaker 3 (11:18) Yeah. It's funny to hear you. This is a rare instance where I read the book before you. So I think I read it in college. I don't really remember, but I am a big fan of celebrity memoirs. Like I love reading people. talk about their life and their craft. I remember like Stephen King's On Writing left a mark on me when I was younger. And I've always just enjoyed, especially reading writers talk about their lives. Like people who, you know, and Bourdain as, you know, this movie is one of the things that is accurate about it is that, and we'll get more into some of the differences, is that he wanted to be a writer. That was what he wanted to be before he had any intention of being a chef. And so I read it in college. I loved it. Speaker 3 (12:04) Definitely watched No Reservations. I watched less Parts Unknown. I think I kind of tapped out a little bit when he moved to CNN, but I remember watching, like you, No Reservations was a post-college or post-drinking-in-college show or just hanging out in the afternoon in college. I remember his... So much stands out from the book, but I also remember just things like his hangover cure, take an aspirin, drink a... a nice cold Coke, smoke a joint and eat some spicy Szechuan food. Like there are all these things that are like ingrained in me. There are stories from Kitchen Confidential that are ingrained in me. I will also note relevant to this episode that I dated a girl in high school whose family spent a week every summer in Provincetown. So I have been there. A couple times. I'm always doing Bear Week, which was always interesting. Speaker 1 (12:53) Fun. Speaker 3 (12:54) And it is a- I did plan a Speaker 1 (12:55) bachelorette party there, which feels like good qualifications. So you've been Speaker 3 (12:59) there as well. I have Speaker 1 (13:00) been there for that one experience. And it's Speaker 3 (13:02) a lovely little town, like obviously great seafood. I mean, when they drove past the drive-in movie theater in Wellfleet, I was like, oh, in the movie, I was like, I'm pretty sure I've been there. So that's cool. Definitely been to some of those restaurants and stuff. But yeah, Bourdain is someone who- He just seemed impossibly cool and is someone that like I've just always appreciated. He was always game for doing so many different things. To Speaker 1 (13:30) me, the best things in life are sort of like highbrow, lowbrow, everything. And I think it was his ability to show us like every side of food culture that it could literally be like a thug. a bowl of noodles you're getting, like where you took a like tut-tut somewhere through like a bunch of fields and you don't know how you got there, or you could be at La Bernardin, like dining with Eric Repair. And these are equal, valuable experiences and we should learn and appreciate all of it. I think just is such a radically important way of thinking that he just lived in all of the media he put out there for us. Speaker 3 (14:06) Yeah, absolutely. And I think one thing that's always stood out to me about him too, is that he found his fame late in life, right? I think he was 43 when Kitchen Confidential was published. And, you know, that kind of made him the personality that we all came to know him as. But Kitchen Confidential started as a book idea, but that's not... really where people first heard aspects of that or first read aspects of that. Yeah. I have Speaker 1 (14:37) some background on that. I think we can go into it on Kitchen Confidential. So Anthony Bourdain had actually already published two crime novels before this came out. He was not particularly happy with how his writing career was going. classic experience. So a friend of his wife's shared a literary agent with him and had read an email that he had written to the friend about what it was like opening up a restaurant abroad where he was and was like, he has to publish a book. And so it's actually a misconception that this very famous New Yorker article he published was the onus for the book. He had... was already in the process of trying to get that book when this person helped him get the New Yorker article published, which is called Don't Eat Before Reading This in 1999. The book came out a year later in 2000. And this article was really like the first time we went behind the scenes of this like very... gross world of fine dining. Things like don't eat fish on Monday at a restaurant has like stuck in my head for the rest of my life. Speaker 3 (15:42) I still do sometimes, but you know, yes. Speaker 1 (15:44) Yeah. And so it was really interesting. Like this book had a pretty modest first printing, 11,000 copies. I mean, not tiny, but not huge, but it just immediately went to number four on the New York Times bestseller list. They ran out of copies, but he would go on to publish 15 books. Like he really was. a writer and he found that success through nonfiction writing, whereas on his own, he had sort of. Speaker 3 (16:08) Right. He wanted to be a novelist. Right. And Speaker 1 (16:11) I think this is what I'm trying to do in the movie. I Speaker 3 (16:13) think this is an early example, too, of like an article kind of going viral before like the Internet could really make an article go viral. And it it it even if it wasn't why he was writing a book, it's what helped make the book the success that it was. Speaker 1 (16:29) Absolutely. Yeah. Speaker 3 (16:31) It all went together. And I don't know if you knew this, Sophie, but No Reservations actually came out of his second, his follow-up book, which was going to be called, I think, or was called A Chef's Tour. And that's, they started kind of making a show at the same time. Like, husband and wife, I believe, production partner, producing partners, came to him and started filming kind of a pilot for... what would end up becoming No Reservations. I was watching the documentary Roadrunner, which is directed by Morgan Neville, that kind of covers the rise to fame and his later life, and then ultimately his death that came out in, I think, 2021. And so that gets into some of the details about how sort of the TV personality Anthony Bourdain came to be. Speaker 1 (17:19) Yeah, it's really interesting, you know, looking at sort of his profile of his whole media career. It's a little bit more like what you see now where someone has like the book that goes into the show, that goes into the next project, that goes into the restaurant, that goes in. It's a little bit more of how we see those publishing deals even be done now. But his stuff Speaker 3 (17:35) was very