Ep. 264 – Exploring Nibbana

Insight Hour with Joseph Goldstein - Be Here Now Network

In this episode of Insight Hour with Joseph Goldstein, the discussion centers on the Buddhist concept of Nibbana, emphasizing its distinction from the commonly used term Nirvana. Goldstein explains why

Key takeaways

• Nibbana is a precise term rooted in Theravada Buddhism, distinct from the culturally diluted use of 'Nirvana' in Western contexts.
• Aspiration toward Nibbana can guide practice without requiring direct experience, but it must be free of expectation to avoid unhelpful striving.

Main topics

• The meaning and significance of Nibbana in Theravada Buddhism
• Differences between Nibbana and common meditative experiences like equanimity or concentration

Notable quotes

Nibbana is the term in Pali, Nirvana in Sanskrit. I use Nibbana to separate it from the colloquial usage that has become detached from its original meaning.

It's possible to have an aspiration without an expectation—this distinction is crucial for balanced practice.

Conclusion

Joseph Goldstein concludes that Nibbana serves as a vital compass in Buddhist practice—offering direction

Transcript preview

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Drawing on more than 50 years of practice and teaching, David will explore what it takes to offer clear meditation instruction, listen deeply, guide meaningful discussion, and share the teachings in your own voice. You'll also learn about Dharma Moon's upcoming 100-hour mindfulness meditation teacher training offered in partnership with Tibet House US, the Dalai Lama's cultural center in the United States. You'll have a chance to meet the teaching team, ask questions, and find out whether the program is right for you. Visit dharmamoon.com backslash path to learn more and reserve your spot for this free online event on August 25th. Speaker 2 (2:22) Welcome to the Joseph Goldstein Inside Hour. This podcast is an expression of our shared interest in self-discovery. Join Joseph as he shares his deep knowledge of the path of mindfulness. If you are interested in supporting this podcast, please go to BeHereNowNetwork.com slash Joseph. Speaker 4 (2:48) Welcome, everyone. My name is William Edelglast. Thank you, Joseph, for being with us tonight. And maybe I can hand it over to you now. Maybe to start that conversation, Joseph, you can say why you choose to use the word Nibbana. We hear a lot about Nirvana. Speaker 4 (3:13) Buddhism and also beyond Buddhism. What's special about the word Nibbana? Why are you using Nibbana? Speaker 3 (3:18) Yeah, so Speaker 4 (3:20) I use the word Nibbana quite consciously. Speaker 3 (3:23) For those of you who may not be familiar with it, Nibbana is the term in the Pali language and Nirvana is the term in Sanskrit. And there were two reasons I wanted to use the Pali term Nibbana. And that is... the Sanskrit term Nirvana has really entered into our English lexicon in a way. You know, there are Nirvana restaurants and rock bands and coffees and perfumes, you know, and so the term Nirvana has taken on a kind of significance in our culture that is somewhat removed from its Buddhist meaning. You know, and so when we... In the course of conversation we might refer to some experience of, oh, that was nirvana. It's as if it was some ultimate fulfillment of sense pleasure or desire, the best of something in that realm. Of course, that has nothing to do with the real meaning of nirvana. And so I wanted to use the Pali word to kind of separate us out from the colloquial usage that is now current. And the other reason is that nirvana or nibbana can refer to different things or can be understood in different ways. in some of the major Buddhist traditions. And so, for example, in the Mahayana tradition, which often uses the Sanskrit term nirvana, there are subtle differences of understanding than in the usage in the Theravada tradition, which uses the Pali term. And I wanted to make clear that in the discussion, both in the essay and this evening, Speaker 3 (5:29) I'll really be talking about it from within the context of the Theravada tradition. So I think it would just be good to be clear about that. And as I say, in the other traditions, in the later traditions of Buddhism, the term nirvana has taken on some different nuances and meanings. So we'll be talking about it within the context of Theravada Buddhism. Speaker 4 (5:56) Great. Thank you. The way we use the word nirvana reminds me of how we might describe a chocolate cake as divine. Exactly. Which is different from an almighty divine being who might create the universe. In my experience, we don't hear the term nirvana used very often in Western convert Buddhist Dharma centers. And it's there, but it's not explored too much. And I'm wondering if your teachers talk much about Nibbana or at what point in your own practice, Joseph, Nibbana became something that was important for you to think about deeply. Speaker 4 (6:46) My teachers Speaker 3 (6:47) definitely talked about it and referred to it. And it is true that in the West, especially with Western teachers, it's not talked about that often. And in reflecting on it, I think two reasons came to mind why it's not talked about as much as perhaps it should be. Speaker 3 (7:17) First is the psychology of many Westerners who practice. Sometimes, and this is a generalization, but over 50 years of teaching, I've seen it a lot. Speaker 3 (7:35) Kind of the Western minds, as we get into practice, depending on how the practice is presented, we can really get caught in a kind of unhelpful striving, you know, and a misunderstanding of what it means to have a goal, you know, and so there can be a lot of expectation and Speaker 3 (8:02) striving in a way that really keeps the mind unbalanced. And so very often, I think, in the way we present the teachings, we try to minimize that tendency of over-efforting. So I think that's one reason. It is really important, I think, to... This would be a really helpful distinction, I think, for people to make. It is possible to have an aspiration without an expectation. And so to have an aspiration for the practice, and for that reason, I think it is helpful to talk about Nibbana as setting the direction for where our practice is going. But it gets tricky if it becomes an expectation and a wanting. Speaker 3 (8:59) The other reason is that I think people who may not have yet experienced it, teachers, may be reluctant to talk about it because it is still outside of their experience. But I think that for anybody who's in a teaching role and who has quite a lot of experience on the path, Whether or not a person has experienced Nibbana, if we're familiar with the teachings of the Buddha, even on a conceptual or intellectual level, or we have a clear understanding of them, In the teaching role, it's actually possible to guide people even to places beyond our own level of realization. And