Why Men Love Bitches
If Books Could Kill
The hosts examine the resurgence of Sherry Argov's 2002 dating guide Why Men Love Bitches, which recently went viral on TikTok for its catchy title and boundary-setting premise. They read through key chapters,
Key takeaways
- Sherry Argov's 2002 book Why Men Love Bitches has seen a massive TikTok resurgence, ranking among Amazon's bestselling dating books decades after its initial release.
- The hosts contrast the book's early chapters on self-respect and boundaries with later advice that encourages passive-aggressive manipulation and emotional suppression to appease male egos.
Main topics
- Dating guide book review
- TikTok cultural resurgence
Notable quotes
"What you tolerate, you allow."
Conclusion
The episode ultimately frames Argov's book as a fascinating cultural artifact that
Transcript preview
Speaker 3 (0:00) Think of all the possibilities you have, Peter. What do you know about why men love bitches? How much time do you need? The amount of self Speaker 5 (0:07) -censorship I have to do during this episode is fucking Herculean. The Speaker 3 (0:11) thing is, though, she says more offensive shit than you could ever come up with. So it's actually perfect. You could just act shocked and horrified. Speaker 5 (0:17) Yeah, the more problematic the book, the more runway I have. Speaker 3 (0:20) Yeah, yeah. Speaker 5 (0:21) Why men Speaker 3 (0:22) love bitches. Peter. Speaker 5 (0:24) Michael. Speaker 3 (0:24) What do you know about why men love bitches? Speaker 5 (0:27) All I know is that I can't answer that because I've never met one. Speaker 3 (0:44) So the full title of this book is Why Men Love Bitches, colon, From Dormat to Dream Girl, M-Dash, A Woman's Guide to Holding Her Own in a Relationship by Sherry Argov. It was released in 2002. According to the front cover, it has sold more than 1 million copies. It's Speaker 5 (1:03) crazy to be writing this right after 9-11. The nation needed to heal. Peter, this was the only way. The Speaker 3 (1:09) initial release of the book is not particularly interesting. It was followed up by a sequel, Why Men Marry Bitches, in 2004. It then went dormant for quite a while. But then in 2020, this book blew up on TikTok and has been like pretty popular ever since. So I checked. The Amazon list for like bestselling dating books. And this book was number five this week. What? Yes, people are still, if you go on TikTok, there's like hundreds of videos of people talking about this book and like how wise it is and how good it is. Speaker 4 (1:43) What the fuck? So Speaker 3 (1:44) we are going to watch one of the TikToks, Peter. Speaker 5 (1:49) Oh, now we're talking. Speaker 3 (1:50) So Speaker 5 (1:50) this Speaker 3 (1:50) gives you an overview of sort of the premise of the book and I think why it is appealing to contemporary women. This Speaker 5 (1:56) has 146,000 likes. on TikTok. Yes. My God. Speaker 1 (2:02) If you are a woman who is single, hates men, can't deal with these dusty crusty musties, listen up. This is for you. I need you to go grab this book right here. Why men love bitches. When I was in my, I don't give a fuck about a man era, didn't want to talk or entertain one, didn't even want to go on dates because of how dusty some of these men were. When I tell you that this genuinely changed my perspective on dating, it changed my perspective on relationships and how I move in relationships. I was always Miss Nice Girl, okay? I was always the girl that would always make excuse. Oh, like he couldn't come to something. Oh, it's okay. It was probably because he was tired. Oh, Speaker 3 (2:34) he couldn't show Speaker 1 (2:35) up for me because Speaker 3 (2:35) he had Speaker 1 (2:36) something going on. It's okay. Maybe next time. Do you know how cringy that sounds? I was losing myself trying to make these men happy. And that is the last thing I will be doing today. This book genuinely taught me that what you tolerate, you allow. Let me say that again. So it's drilled in your head. Speaker 3 (2:50) What you tolerate, you allow. Speaker 1 (2:52) If you are not okay with your man doing a certain type of behavior or certain thing, and you've already communicated to him one too many times that what you're doing upsets me. And instead of him not doing it, continues to do it. However, you don't have a strong backbone and don't put your foot down. Don't tolerate it anymore. He will continue to do the same thing until you decide to break the cycle. You can still move with love. You can still move with kindness. You can still move with your feminine energy. But having boundaries in place is the one thing that is going to protect you from low quality people and low quality experiences. Speaker 3 (3:24) What do you think, Peter? How are you? How are you defending against the dusty Christy Musties in your life? This Speaker 5 (3:28) makes sense to me. This is a girl who is like 24 and she's like, when I was 23, I was so stupid. The Speaker 3 (3:35) message of it is basically fine. It's Speaker 5 (3:37) hard to know because if you frame it like, hey, you set some boundaries, people actually respect that. Sure. Yeah. But if you're like, you should be kind of mean because it's tricked people psychologically. into wanting you more then you're Speaker 2 (3:52) in like weird negging pickup artist territory right Speaker 5 (3:55) very very conservative worldview you must be warlike because your enemy is also warlike this is the epitome of the right-wing worldview and it's being brought into the dating world or Speaker 3 (4:06) is it peter or is it a message of empowerment for today's young women let's read the book and find out let's go through the content of the book Speaker 5 (4:12) so Speaker 3 (4:13) the opening paragraphs of the book Define what she means by bitches. Speaker 5 (4:21) Let's get some definitions rolling. First of all, bitches. So here we go. Why Men Love Bitches is a relationship guide for women who are too nice. The word bitch in the title does not take itself too seriously. I'm using the word in a tongue-in-cheek way, representative of the humorous tone of this book. It's a show don't tell. It's a show don't tell kind of book. 20 years before Chachi PT, she's writing like this. An important distinction should be made between the pejorative way the word is usually used and the way it is used here. Certainly, I'm not recommending that a woman have an abrasive disposition. The bitch I'm talking about is not the bitch on wheels or the mean-spirited character that Joan Collins played on Dynasty. It's a 2002 book. The woman I'm describing is kind yet strong. She has a strength that is ever so subtle. She doesn't give up her life and she won't chase a man. She won't let a man... think he has 100 % hold on her, and she'll stand up for herself when he steps over the line. She knows what she wants, but won't compromise herself to get it. But she's feminine, like a steel magnolia, flowery on the outside and steel on the Speaker 3 (5:24) inside. I kind of respect the book for, in the opening paragraph, being like, the title is clickbait. When I say bitch, I mean a completely different thing that is nobody else's definition of bitch. Like a confident woman who's like kind, but also assertive. One of the weird facts I came across in the research was that apparently the Portuguese translation of this book just translated bitches as competent woman. The Speaker 5 (5:47) wokest language in the world, Portuguese. A mean woman? No, there's no word for that in Portuguese. I Speaker 3 (5:54) had a long period, like I read the intro to this book and then I like moved on, like I had some editing to do and some other stuff. And in my mind, this was sort of sitting there as like, do we finally have a book that is like fine? It's just like, hey, ignore the title. This book is going to be about having more confidence and like moving through the world in a way where you don't let people treat you like shit. If so, honestly, call your book whatever you want. Speaker 5 (6:14) Well, here's the thing. I feel like you've done. fewer books like this than I have. And the one thing I've learned is that the first chapter will always make you nervous as a podcaster. You're like, oh, is this actually just a totally fine book? Right. I know. I know. No one can keep talking about this for 200 pages without eventually becoming insane. Speaker 3 (6:35) Also, Peter, do you know the etymology of the word bitch? Like where the word comes from? Speaker 5 (6:39) Like beyond the female dog? No. Speaker 3 (6:41) In this book, she says, according to some, the word bitch derives from the first letters in the following phrase, babe in total control of herself. Speaker 4 (6:51) So when a man Speaker 5 (6:52) calls a woman a bitch, he's actually saying. You're a babe in total control of yourself. Early 1900s. The Speaker 3 (6:57) rest of the intro just sort of lays out like the basic concept. She also mentions that she interviewed hundreds of men for this book. Speaker 5 (7:03) So Speaker 3 (7:04) this is going to be a woman conveying male perspectives on what they like in women. So we're getting the best of both worlds. Speaker 2 (7:12) Yes. We Speaker 3 (7:13) then get into chapters one and two. Chapter one is act like a prize and you'll turn him into a believer, which bothered me because it's like. The nouns don't match up. Right. If it was like, act like a goddess and you'll turn him into a believer, like those two things would be parallel, right? That Speaker 5 (7:29) would have lined up. It's Speaker 3 (7:30) like a little foreshadowing of like, this really feels like a book that she just like typed out and like sent off. Like there's a lot of weird stuff like this. She starts by doing a critique of women's magazines, a critique of traditional female media. Okay. Here's this. Speaker 5 (8:08) Disaster. Speaker 5 (8:14) This is why the woman he really falls in love with doesn't serve a four-course meal. And you won't see her breaking out the fancy china either. She'll start out cooking him a one-course meal. Popcorn. Speaker 5 (8:27) No fancy doilies. A Tupperware bowl does the trick. She simply asks her guest, hey, do you want the bag or the bowl? Hell yeah. This makes it seem like there was an epidemic of women cooking their men four course meals. I wasn't on the dating scene in like the 90s, but I don't I don't think that was true. She Speaker 3 (8:46) then gives a recipe for like what you should serve him on the first date. She says the appetizer is popcorn. She then says for the main course, you should boil two hot dogs in water and then chop them up and put toothpicks in them and hand them to him. And then for dessert, you should give him a Twinkie. jelly roll, like something super, super low effort. Speaker 5 (9:08) Texting my friends like, hey, I just had the most fucked up date of my life. Speaker 3 (9:12) So like it's clear that she's joking with this. Like the whole thing is she's sort of exaggerating it. Like a lot of Speaker 5 (9:18) the Speaker 3 (9:18) book has this thing where like officially you can tell like obviously she's joking. But on the other hand, she's joking the way that like Ann Coulter is joking. Right. It's officially a joke. But also your advice is to not make a huge effort in the early process of dating. If Speaker 5 (9:32) this sold a million copies, you know that like one woman out there cut up hot dogs. Yeah. Yeah. There's a weird tension there where it's like, OK, but like what does it actually look like? to be chill and not put in too much effort. She Speaker 3 (9:44) also has a lot of tables in the book. Speaker 5 (9:47) Okay. Speaker 4 (9:47) A Speaker 3 (9:47) lot of tables, a lot of quizzes. Yeah, yeah. A lot of like bullet points and stuff. You'll never guess why. A lot of the tables are two columns like contrasting the nice girl and the bitch. Have Speaker 5 (9:57) you ever injured yourself through violent masturbation? So Speaker 3 (10:00) here's this. I'll be the nice girl and you can be the bitch. That makes sense. Okay. The nice girl. She'll try to sweet talk a man into giving her what she wants on a regular basis. If she doesn't get it, she'll cry, get upset, or pout. The Speaker 5 (10:13) bitch. She won't sugarcoat anything or use euphemisms. She is direct about what her preferences are and lets him know what the do's and don'ts are with respect to how he treats her. The Speaker 3 (10:23) nice girl. If he hurts her in some way, she'll cry. Then she'll make him apologize and promise not to do it again. The Speaker 5 (10:28) bitch. She'll back off and let her silence do the talking. Then she'll communicate when she's ready on her own terms. At this point, she makes it clear it won't happen again because if it does, she won't be around. Is that really more direct than crying? Speaker 3 (10:41) The nice girl. She tells herself he didn't mean that. Or she makes excuses if he behaves badly. Speaker 5 (10:46) The bitch. She notices his disrespect instantly and without hesitation calls him on it. The Speaker 3 (10:51) nice girl. She forces herself to do something she's uncomfortable with in order to please a man. She also puts on a happy face and pretends that she likes it. Speaker 5 (10:59) The bitch. She won't do anything she's not comfortable with and won't hesitate to let him know she meets him on a level playing field. Speaker 3 (11:06) Another thing she does a lot in the book is... put these little equations in the text. So the nice girl one says, one equals a docile woman equals loss of respect. The Speaker 5 (11:16) other equals a desirable woman equals increased respect. That's math, baby. I Speaker 3 (11:22) don't know if you needed these. This is very Speaker 5 (11:24) generic stuff so far. Also, I refuse to believe that you couldn't find this in a magazine for the ladies. So Speaker 3 (11:31) these are the chapters that... cover kind of like the initial stages of dating. Like when you first met somebody, you're sort of feeling out like how often am I going to see him? Like, are we going to go to his place? Are we going to meet at a bar? Like these kind of little decisions that you have to make in the early stages of dating. Speaker 2 (11:45) The Speaker 3 (11:46) core advice is basically like you shouldn't change who you are. You should make sure you keep your friends, keep your hobbies. Don't cancel plans to meet some guy you're on like a second or third date with. People are attracted to other people who have hobbies and interests and interesting things to discuss. So you shouldn't compromise any of that. You're never going to get a boyfriend by pretending that he is the center of your world, right? Fundamentally sound advice. She gives some tips on like planning dates, when to accept invitations from the guy, when not to. Speaker 4 (12:14) We're Speaker 3 (12:15) going to read these two. I'll be if he, and you should be you should. Speaker 5 (12:20) Okay. If Speaker 3 (12:21) he takes a few hours to return a phone call. Speaker 5 (12:22) You should take a few hours to pick Speaker 3 (12:25) up. Boom. Monkey see, monkey do. If he keeps calling to push back the plans from five to six to seven. You should agree to the Speaker 5 (12:32) first delay. If he pushes back again, pull the plug politely. Tell him to take care of his business and suggest hooking up later that week. Speaker 3 (12:40) If he calls after 10 or at a time when you would normally be asleep. Speaker 5 (12:43) You should wait until your next date and politely tell him not to call you past 10. Don't do it. That shows you can live without talking to him and you aren't that concerned with where he is at night. If Speaker 3 (12:52) he wants to see you for one or two hours or just enough time to have sex. You Speaker 5 (12:56) should tell him you don't work in little time frames. Suggest another night when you both have more time. If he doesn't call you when Speaker 3 (13:02) he's out of town. Speaker 5 (13:03) He shouldn't be able to get a hold of you when he gets back. Speaker 3 (13:07) Regardless of how many times a week he calls or wants to see you. Speaker 5 (13:10) Don't pick up 100 % of the time. So some of these are boundaries and then a couple of them are psychological mind games. Speaker 3 (13:18) This is the funny like duality of this book is that some of the stuff is like totally fine. Yeah. If a guy's clearly just calling you for sex, that's not something you're interested in or he's calling you late at night. Like, yeah, just be like, no, thanks. Yeah. But then also, no matter what, don't pick up the phone. One Speaker 5 (13:33) of my favorite things to think about in the context of dating advice of any type is would you accept this from the other gender? Like if you just like flipped it, right? Yeah. If it was like. The man you're dating is playing weird games by intentionally not picking up the phone sometimes. I Speaker 3 (13:48) will say, I mean, we talked about this for the rules episode, so I'm not going to get super into it. But I did look up like the effectiveness of various dating strategies and obviously very difficult thing to study. But to the extent there's any data on this, it basically doesn't matter that much. If you really like somebody, whether they text back after three hours or one day or whatever, these sorts of little tips don't really do much. And if you don't like somebody. there isn't a lot of strategy they can use to make you interested in them. Speaker 5 (14:16) Right. Speaker 3 (14:16) I also think there's Speaker 5 (14:17) a Speaker 3 (14:17) weird thing where people pretend it doesn't matter. Like, obviously, don't come on too strong early in a relationship. You know, don't make yourself too available to somebody. I think people respond to neediness, especially with like online dating. Like, is this person way too into this? Like, they shouldn't be taking this too seriously. You really can turn somebody off by being like too into them too early. I Speaker 5 (14:35) actually think that this is my most problematic dating thought. And this is outdated. I haven't dated in a decade. But like, I feel like playing hard to get does work. Speaker 3 (14:44) There is an actual psychological concept where when something is available to you, once you know that it's an option, you immediately start thinking, what are my other options? Speaker 5 (14:53) Right, right. And so Speaker 3 (14:53) when somebody casts themselves as an option, you're going to look around. On the other hand, I mean, I am somebody who just went through this process. Like I met a guy online last November. And then we had a couple months where we were doing this. Like we've been on one date. And then how much are we going to see each other? During that process, really, he was fun to hang out with and he was cute and nice to be around. And like, if he texted back a little slower or a little faster, I know that it mattered that much. Ultimately, I feel like this stuff probably does work at the margins, but it can get you maybe like a third date with somebody who's on the fence about you and would have goes to do after two dates. Like they're probably still going to be on the fence about you after that third date. Speaker 5 (15:31) And if he was willing to look past you being a professional podcaster, then I'm sure that you could have done all sorts of bullshit when it came to the texting timing. My Speaker 3 (15:40) rule with this was I will eventually tell him about all this. And so if there's something like, OK, I waited until the next day to text you back. Yeah, yeah. You will eventually tell him that and he'll probably think it was cute. But if it's like, oh, yeah, when I told you I couldn't hang out because like I had a volleyball game, I don't actually play volleyball. I lied to make you think I was cool. Like that would look really bad in a relationship. I think generally like low level stuff like this is totally fine. But assume that you're going to tell the person about it eventually. Like Speaker 5 (16:06) my parents didn't really die. Speaker 4 (16:08) Yeah, exactly. Speaker 3 (16:09) Like you have to be really careful with this shit. Speaker 5 (16:11) When are we going to get to the explanation of why I'm attracted to the gone girl lady? That's what I'm confused about here. Speaker 3 (16:18) as usual with these books, because they have to fill them up. She also gives quite a bit of sort of obvious advice. So here are some other tips. Speaker 5 (16:27) Don't introduce him as your boyfriend right away. This suggests to a man that you are setting up for the long haul and you want to preserve the impression you are still undecided. Let's circle back. No lover's gazes. To you, it's romantic. But to him, he's being eyed up like... prey no different than the way a lion looks at a gazelle don't Speaker 3 (16:46) look at him Speaker 5 (16:47) ladies if they by the way if there's one thing guys like it's just like a woman looking at him yeah Speaker 3 (16:51) like elevator eyes yeah it was good Speaker 5 (16:53) there's a reason that like every movie has that one scene it's almost like unrealistic yeah yeah and how hornily the lady gazes at the dude don't give him framed pictures of you for his home and office okay careful ladies careful are we still talking about the first couple days Imagine you show up to like the third date. You're like, hey, this Speaker 3 (17:12) is a Speaker 5 (17:12) picture. This is just a picture of me, a full body picture of me. Not Speaker 3 (17:16) even a picture of you like together. It's like just a picture of me. Don't drop Speaker 5 (17:20) the L-bomb within the first couple of months. You don't love him. You don't love the sex. You like the sport coat. Good enough. Jesus Christ. Some of the Speaker 3 (17:29) writing in this book. Speaker 5 (17:31) Don't use new age words like we, us, ours, destiny, soulmate. or anything with a togetherness feeling. Speaker 3 (17:41) Don't say like, we should see a movie next week. No, no, no, that's