How We Proposed [with Pam Fryman] | S3E20 "Miracles"

How We Made Your Mother

In this episode of How We Made Your Mother, director Pam Fryman joins Josh Radner and Craig Thomas to reflect on the production of the 'Mirac

Key takeaways

• Director Pam Fryman describes the 'rollercoaster' of shooting a massive batch of episodes with minimal writing time post-strike.
• Writer Chris Harris recounts the true story of a pencil flying from a ceiling tile directly into his nostril during a writer's room session.
• The production utilized complex technical feats, such as a tilted set for a 'crooked apartment' and a two-minute one-shot date scene.
• Josh Radner analyzes the characters through attachment theory, identifying Ted Mosby as an anxious attacher.
• The episode explores the concept of miracles through both scripted plot points and real-life production accidents.

Main topics

• 2008 Writers Guild Strike
• Behind-the-scenes production challenges
• Real-life 'miracles' on set

Notable quotes

A miracle is defined as a one in a million event.

Conclusion

The episode provides a nostalgic and deeply technical look at how chao

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:02) Hi, everyone. My name is Jordana, and I'm in New York City. Glad to be back. So what I've been thinking about is that as Ted's love story unfolds, my love story with the show unfolds, too. There was season one, that initial meeting, that meet cute, where I definitely felt a spark with the show. Honestly surprised that a sitcom, which is not my typical genre, could make me feel so much. But by season two, I really got to know the show, to feel into its ethos, tone, philosophy. I noticed I was laughing harder. I could feel myself tearing up in moments. And I think that's when I started to let the show in. I let it begin to move me. And now, season three, I can wholeheartedly say that I'm in love. I'm deep in that infatuation stage. I can't stop thinking about the whole crew at McLaren's. Each week, I'm excited to see them again, and I feel deeply invested in the evolution of the characters. But maybe the best part of falling in love with Himyam is watching Josh fall too, looking over at him and seeing him also laugh and tear up. excitedly taking notes, watching him integrate Ted and this beautiful yet complex chapter of his life into who he is now has only made me love the show even more. So I guess what I'm saying is I'm so in and I couldn't be more delighted to have six seasons left of my love story with the show. My very own How I Met, How I Met Your Mother. Speaker 5 (1:54) Welcome to How We Made Your Mother. I'm Josh Radner. I'm here with my friend Craig Thomas. Hi, Craig. Hey, Josh. Wow. Alec, is it possible, like, you know who sent in those recordings? Can I get that person's information? I would love to maybe connect with her. I felt Speaker 4 (2:11) something. I don't know. It's weird to do that, right? Is that ethically just a problem? I mean, we have to give it to all of the, everyone that writes in is going to Speaker 5 (2:18) want it. Speaker 4 (2:18) But this is the only time I'm asking. Okay, one time. Speaker 7 (2:21) I thought no fans. I thought that was the line, no fans. Speaker 5 (2:25) That was my wife, Jordana, in a shocking surprise because she... She went behind your back. She went behind my back. She's often betraying me in those ways. She does that a lot. Speaker 5 (2:40) That was so moving. That Speaker 7 (2:41) was an incredible message. I just, I don't feel like we say this often enough. This podcast exists because of Jordana in so many ways, because she had not seen the show that the guy she was marrying started in. And at some point after he got married, she said, maybe I should see the show and maybe we should revisit it. You know, you should go back and do it as a rewatch podcast. And like, I really feel like. I was so nervous that she, and being the person that hadn't seen it, what if she doesn't like the show? It's that Star Wars thing. Like Sarah Jock's character, what if she doesn't like Star Wars? What if Jordana doesn't like How Much I Love Her? It is just a wave of relief to hear how in she is. I feel joyous hearing that. Speaker 5 (3:17) Well, I would like to continue this conversation, but I just want to bring in our special guest because I want to hear what she has to say too. But we have back for, is this the second or third time? I can't remember. Speaker 2 (3:27) Second. Speaker 5 (3:28) Second time. Second time. And long overdue. We have the mother of How I Met Your Mother. Oh, yes. The director of 200 of the 208 episodes, I believe. We have our dear friend, forever friend, Pam Fryman is back with us. Hi, Speaker 7 (3:45) Pam. Welcome back to the show. I Speaker 2 (3:49) am so excited to hear Jordana say what she said because I could not wait. for Josh to someday watch this show and fall in love with it in the way that he is falling in love with it now. Speaker 5 (4:04) You know what, you know when you look at photos of yourself from, let's say, your 20s, and you remember feeling, like, grotesque. Like, I was like, I was just in a low moment, an insecure moment. You see a photo of yourself, you go, my... God, I was beautiful. Speaker 7 (4:22) Like, everyone Speaker 5 (4:23) is beautiful in their 20s. They just don't know it. You know what I mean? Yes, well said. And this isn't about anything aesthetic. It's more like I was, and you remember this, Pam, because we talked a lot, but like I was so confused by fame and losing my visibility, you know, losing my anonymity and being visible and not knowing how I was being perceived, overthinking how I was being perceived. All the things, you know, week to week, my self-esteem would go up and down based on were the writers writing good things for me, bad things for me? Like, were they putting me in red cowboy boots? Like, what were they doing? Do people like me? Do people hate me? Like, and I was doing it and I realized, I think I talked about this, but like, I, you know, Ali had Alexis. Kobe had Taryn. You know, Neil had David. You had Alan. Craig had Rebecca. I still Speaker 2 (5:14) do. Speaker 5 (5:15) Yeah. And, you know, Jason had the world. Speaker 2 (5:19) Jason, Speaker 5 (5:19) you know. And I went home kind of, you know, I had girlfriends during the time, but like I was mostly, I was doing it alone. You know, I was doing it alone. And there's something so different about. all these years later, revisiting it with my beloved, you know, wife next to me. And she's so, as you can hear, she's so psychologically smart, so I can really process this with her. And she's able to, like, really, even though it's me, she's giving it a really objective watch, if that makes sense. Like, she's really just watching it for the first time and enjoying it. Yeah. It turns out it's really Speaker 2 (5:55) good. Speaker 5 (5:57) I know. It turns out. I know. And I didn't... Didn't quite know that at the time. Like I knew it, but I didn't know it, but it's very hard to know what you're in when you're at the center of it. Speaker 2 (6:08) Yeah. Maybe Speaker 7 (6:08) impossible. Speaker 5 (6:09) It may not be possible. You need some distance. You need some perspective. You were Speaker 2 (6:13) also, if I could say, you were also working really hard, just doing it, just the act of doing a show like that every day, coming to set, learning those lines, learning the block and giving the performance. It's a lot. Just that's a lot. Yeah. And then processing. Success is a lot. Speaker 5 (6:32) Yeah, and knowing how successful it was or wasn't and like, but wait, are they more successful than us? Like who, I mean, it was an impossible landscape to make sense of while you were on it. I knew the show was good in the sense that People were watching it. More and more people were watching it. We stayed on the air for nine years, which is kind of unheard of. So something about it I knew was working, but I also did not have a sense of... I've told this story, but my friend Victor Garber, who was in the original cast of Sweeney Todd, left to go do a touring production of another show, came back, sat in the audience and watched Sweeney Todd and said, wait, I was in this? Like, I was in that? Like, he couldn't believe how brilliant it was because he had no sense of it while he was in it. in it. Speaker 2 (7:21) I kind of loved it. And I understand it. Distance, it helps. But for me personally, I am really happy that you are experiencing this now. This was my wish for you. And it just gives me great pleasure. Speaker 7 (7:43) Pammy, you're still the mother of How Much Mother. Look at us. You're like, I'm proud of where you've arrived emotionally all these years later. And with your wife, you're a proud mama. I Speaker 2 (7:53) can't Speaker 7 (7:53) help it. And now here we are. Speaker 2 (7:56) I listen and I can't believe you're at the end of season three. I mean, this is going so fast. Speaker 7 (8:02) It's going by really fast. Speaking of going by fast, I do want to, so we wanted, when we got up to the episode, The Platinum Rule, which was the episode right as the Writers Guild strike hit. That's been kind of the theme of this second half of season three. We wanted to have you on for that episode and you were busy. I think you were shooting something. You couldn't do it or something was going on. I was. Probably we asked you way too last minute. But we, the reason I wanted to talk to you then, and I want to just pick your brain on it now. The weird, it was so strange in season three. We shut down for three months, right? We referred the Writers Guild strike that happened in 2008. And the episode, The Platinum Rule, was an episode we wrote the script of until midnight on a Sunday night before the contract ended and the strike started. I'm sweating again hearing Speaker 2 (8:49) this. Speaker 7 (8:49) And Speaker 2 (8:49) we Speaker 7 (8:49) handed you that script. And you shot it with no writers on the set. It was edited without us in the edit room, just very quickly. And then that kicks off my larger question, which is this whole back nine leading to here we are in the season three finale. What is your memory of starting with that episode, then three months down, then, hey, by the way, now we're shooting nine episodes in 11 weeks, most of them not written. What is your memory of that rollercoaster ride? Speaker 2 (9:14) It was a rollercoaster. It was a whirlwind. It was really... unsettling not to have you around and knowing that you were right outside marching. Like you were so close, but we really couldn't talk to you. I was honestly pushing Speaker 7 (9:29) baby Elliot around. I was down at the Sony lot, two blocks from my house, pushing my baby, like six-month-old Elliot around. Anyway, keep going, sorry. And Speaker 2 (9:38) the clearest memory I have of that time is getting it done, trusting the words, knowing that we... We knew what you wanted, but going into editing with Sue and we would put it together and then say, but wait. Maybe they wanted to, like, we kept questioning ourselves. We kept going back and forth. There was no way to talk to you about it. And so we just like, okay. Speaker 5 (10:10) And I wrote you this little ditty to sing to you Speaker 6 (10:16) in New York City. Speaker 5 (10:20) We'll be right back. Speaker 5 (10:30) And now, back to the show. Craig, did you or Carter ever get your hands on an edit of this? I don't think so. Speaker 7 (10:37) I think we were pretty good boys. I think it was considered writing to have that input, even in the editing room. And our show was very written in the editing room. Very. So we were pretty good about... I'm not just trying to say that so the guild won't yell at me. Speaker 2 (10:53) I specifically remember that. Speaker 7 (10:56) Yeah, we were pretty good about it. We Speaker 2 (10:57) followed the rules. We were really... because people were watching yeah Speaker 5 (11:02) but it's an amazingly intricate episode to have been we talked about it as like it's a russian nesting doll episode like it's like it's a flashback flashback flashback yeah it's really and in some ways that might have been better craig than a joke heavy episode where you'd want the writers on like this was like a perfectly constructed machine, which you guys could do. That was kind of your visionary genius. It wasn't like a joke to joke to joke, even though it's a funny episode. It was a gimmick episode Speaker 7 (11:30) rather than a like, we want to keep writing jokes episode on set. It would have been great. You watch that episode and you go, that's great. I bet it would have been 30 % more jokes in it if we'd done a proper production week. And by the way, Speaker 2 (11:40) exactly. It was all that. But there's no doubt that having you guys right there is the fairy dust every day, every scene. And you were missed. And we were, mom and dad were not around. Like it was, it felt strange. Thank God it was Speaker 5 (11:58) third season and not first season. I know. You know, like we at least knew how to make the show. If any listeners are confused right now, we are not talking about the Platinum World today. We're talking about episode 20 of season three, which is Speaker 7 (12:12) called, Craig, remind me. It is called Miracles. Speaker 4 (12:15) Miracles. It's called Miracles. And Alec, when did this one air? This was on May 19th of 2008. Speaker 5 (12:22) And this was written by, I believe, some rookie writers named Craig Thomas and Carter Bayes. Carter Speaker 7 (12:27) Bayes and Craig Thomas. Let's see what they can do. And we were actually there on set for it, which was a nice change from the Platinum Roll. But yeah, so this and this was episode nine of a batch of nine episodes shot in 11 weeks. And that I think these nine episodes have been crazy for me to watch, Pam. I mean, from 10, I should say, because Platinum Rule watching is the episode I remembered the least. I was watching with Rebecca. I'm like, I don't remember what happens. I know I remember the structure, but like the actual beats, like because I was never in an edit of it. Usually you see each episode 35 fucking times. This was zero times. And it was so weird for me. And then now here we are at the season finale and we've never produced episodes at a rate like this where we were just writing them and just handing you pages basically as we went. And I just, what was your memory of how that went? And dear God, there's some good ones in this back nine. How did we do it? Speaker 2 (13:20) They're great, but we were shot out of a cannon. Like we were just, it was more of a game show than anything else. It was like, we just had to get it done. But everybody knew what they were doing. Like, this is where everybody really could shine because we were well-educated by you. We knew what this show was. And we were also in love with it, and we wanted to protect it. And we did, like everything, you and Carter were great at every week giving us something where people went, how are we going to do that? Like, how are we going to do that dance number? How are we going to make it rain? How are we going to do a music? That Speaker 7 (14:03) was already the culture. That was the culture of that. That's what we did. Speaker 2 (14:07) So you told us that this is what we had to do. So we did it. I just think it was everybody stepped up and did it. Speaker 5 (14:13) We were. There's so many things in this batch of episodes. There's a crooked apartment in this episode. I mean, in this back Speaker 7 (14:21) nine. Yeah, Speaker 5 (14:22) there's I mean, and we were also like, did they? they made an a thing that tilted right oh yeah but you also did some clever camera work in moments too right but Speaker 2 (14:32) that that entire set was lifted off the ground and pitched yeah Speaker 7 (14:38) like we probably told you guys that idea about a week ahead of time and you and then it's like you build up this whole set on a giant winch that tilts and like all right there was such a challenge accepted aesthetic on that set. I mean, that's probably why that became one of Barney's things you said, because that was just the ethos of the crew. You were the head of Pam and you, you all, you're getting Cardinal credit. You very much set that tone and in the way where everyone wanted to accept that challenge and nail it for you, you asked them to do it. They wanted to do it for you. You know, I, um, in my Speaker 5 (15:11) first, my first film, which I hadn't yet directed at this point. um happy thank you more please i directed it in between our first fourth and fifth season and we had a production meeting where we had to figure out new york taxi cabs when we can get it oh it's in front of a police station you're not allowed to show a precinct number in a tv like in a movie like there were all these things and my dp saw my face kind of turn white and he pulled me aside afterwards he goes what's going on i said i'm terrified because we were starting on monday this is like a friday and i said uh he said what are you afraid of i said I'm afraid people are going to be asking me questions constantly. I'm not going to know the answers to. And he said, you make a film to figure out the answers. You don't know the answers beforehand. Every day you show up with problems to solve and you solve them one by one. That's what making a movie is. And I feel like that's what, like. Making any TV show is like the script is like a problem to be solved. Like you hand them like, oh, a crooked apartment like that's tilted. Like, like, what is like, how are we going to do that? But there was, like you said, like a very challenge accepted thing. Like, I remember sometimes I'm like, I don't know if you ever were freaked out, but you certainly didn't show it. You know, and I think that you, I don't know, there was just a very can-do attitude about all the insane things. Here's a question Speaker 7 (16:28) 18 years later. Were you freaked out? Yeah, were you? Speaker 2 (16:34) I mean, there might have been a moment or two, but to your point, Josh, I will tell you that when I talk to young people coming up, one of the best things I can say to them is the biggest mistake a director makes going on stage is thinking they have to know everything. Speaker 7 (16:53) Right. Speaker 2 (16:54) And the beauty is getting on that stage and talking to all of those experts. And figuring, you know, here's what I'm thinking. What do you think? And on that stage, specifically saying, here's what I'm thinking. What do you think was the greatest thing in the world? Because everybody had valuable information. Because Speaker 5 (17:17) you're also like, you're surrounded by the top people. You're surrounded by the top people in every field. Why wouldn't you crowdsource the best ideas? Exactly. Exactly. Speaker 2 (17:27) Exactly. But. Yeah. I understand that when you get that job, you think, I have to know everything. Like, this is my job now. And you're terrified. And you realize that when you walk on and you ask a question, people are so happy to be part of the process. Speaker 5 (17:44) Yeah. And everyone wants to be a part of something good. Yes. You know what I mean? Like, everyone wants it to be good. Like, you want to have fun on set. But not if the final product isn't great, because then you're never going to see each other again. If you make something great, you can keep doing Speaker 7 (18:00) it. To Speaker 2 (18:00) me, the perfect example of that was the two-minute date. Speaker 7 (18:03) Also in this back nine whirlwind game show batch. I mean, it would... And what you Speaker 2 (18:09) saw behind the cameras was incredible. And everybody having the greatest time and saying, I'll do this, you do this, you do this. And it's a team sport. I mean, it's just... That's how we did all of these. Speaker 7 (18:23) We talked to Sarah Chalk about this, Pam. And that was another one I missed having you on. We should have had you and Sarah on. I love her so. But just to talk about it, did this become... We're turning this episode into this season three recap episode. We're just jumping around. Sorry. But what is your memory, just for people who don't immediately know what you mean, two-minute date, it was all one shot for two minutes. It was Ted taking Sarah Joshua, one giant, very intricate, all these moving parts. What is your memory of what that looked like, not to the camera lens, but to you standing there? Yeah, Speaker 2 (18:53) it was what was happening right outside. of the lens. It was what was happening when you went by that restaurant and they ran in and redressed that restaurant while we were down. Like, people were working so fast and so hard to get things ready as the camera was... And Speaker 5 (19:12) athletically, like, you know, crouching and moving and like... Because they had to stay out of frame. Sarah said she felt relaxed, Speaker 7 (19:20) though. Pam, you had a set where this can be happening. I think Sarah gave you the credit. She and Josh had this memory of not feeling harried because everything was moving so fast around them, but they were in the eye of the hurricane, the eye of the storm. We got to be Speaker 5 (19:37) like Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers in the middle of it. Speaker 7 (19:40) Really relaxed. It plays relaxed. That's Speaker 5 (19:44) how Speaker 7 (19:44) it plays. Even though it's not. It's an Olympic sport that's happening just off camera. My Speaker 2 (19:49) memory is, I mean, we certainly did it a few times, but it didn't take forever. I think we did Speaker 5 (19:55) three. Speaker 2 (19:55) Yeah, I think we did three. I think we did three, Speaker 5 (19:57) and I think you used take two as my memory. Maybe. But I could be wrong. It Speaker 2 (20:02) was magic. And magic and teamwork. Speaker 5 (20:05) I mean, fun for Sue. She just has to pick one take. In fact, I would