Ep. 471: Timeless Kitchen Design with Cyndy Cantley

How to Decorate - Ballard Designs

Cyndy Cantley shares her journey from interior design student to kitchen expert, emphasizing timeless design, functionality, and simplicity in kitchen planning. She discusses evolving trends, the importance of classic ca

Key takeaways

• Prioritize timeless over trendy designs

Transcript preview

Welcome to How to Decorate from Ballard Designs, a weekly podcast all about the trials and triumphs of decorating and redecorating your home. I'm Caroline, I'm on the marketing team. And I'm Taren and I'm a product designer. I'm Liz, I head of the creative team. We're your host. Join the expert team at Ballard Designs for designs for tips, tricks and tails from interior designers and other talents in the design world. Plus we'll answer your decorating dile at the end of each episode. We love answering your questions. So don't Now on with the show. Okay our guest today we have been trying to get you on the podcast for over a year so we're thrilled to have you here in person at our studio Cindy Cantley she's an kitchen expert principal designer of Cantley and Tolman she's built an incredible career focusing on bespoke beautifully functional kitchens and we can't wait to pick your brain about kitchens kitchen trends I know Liz has many questions own kitchen project. So welcome to the show. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Okay you were telling us before we started recording about how you got into kitchen design and how you and your husband started your company many years ago and it's a great story so I was hoping you could retell it for our listeners because it was it was such a unique one. It is funny. Well and I got into kitchen design because I majored in interior design and that was so long ago that no one really mentioned you don't make enough money to live for the green design and so I worked for a really good designer in Birmingham and which I was lucky and I worked at Benetine yeah I probably don't know that. Oh yeah nights and weekends and so I started doing kitchens because you literally got paid more and met my husband along the way he was actually my manager at a place where I worked and we dated for several years got married. They asked us if we would do a decorate our show house and And we said yes, because we were just young and dumb and had nothing to lose. Although he did not build cabinets, but he's very MacGyverish and built the cabinets in his parents' basement. And we did this showhouse and it was lovely. And one of the people that came through the house was Frank Stitt, a very well-known chef in Birmingham. And we did his kitchen, besides the show house, it was the first kitchen we did. And it ended up on the cover of Bonapete magazine. And that was kind of how it started how it started how it started how it started. And that was how it started fortunate. It was just great timing and we were very lucky and we worked real hard. But it was, it was a nice break. How serendipitous. I know. In every way. And to have your like second job on a cover of a magazine? Yes, I know. Because we've only been on maybe two or three covers ever. So it was, it was a fluke. We were lucky. Yeah. And Frankston is, you know, of all of the people in Birmingham to be your sort of the spokesperson, showcase your work. He's the one because, you know, James Beard Award winner and yeah, his amazing restaurant. So you've definitely seen a lot in terms of kitchen trends and the arc of sort of how kitchens have evolved. And from like a high level, how would you say things have changed since you started the company? Like, are there, are there overarching things that, you know, have evolved over time? It had nowhere to go but up from when I started doing kitchens. You know, there were a lot of guys, there were cabinet salesman back in, and I was one of the very few people with the degree in design that was doing kitchens in Birmingham at the time. And so I think that helped also in my career. Unfortunately, pickle cabinets had just kind of been invented or become popular. And there was nothing better to a 20-something-year-old girl than a pink kitchen. And I kind of feel bad for all those that I did. the years for people and then I remember even Corion and came out with pink countertop pink Corion countertops and I just feel so bad that I did that to so many people but I thought it was just the cutest thing I'm sure they loved it though yeah they did and it was you know it was the first kind of thing passed brown cabinets just that ugly bad brown oak cabinet that people did very country looking in my opinion so it was very exciting that we had pickle cabinets which did not age well you know it was very exciting that we had pickle cabinets which did not age over time. And so from there you know at some point we figured out you could paint cabinets I'm not sure why we weren't doing that before I well many a hundred years ago they did and then it seemed to kind of go away and then it came back and then I guess we discovered marble underground at some point. I don't know where that had been during the laminate Corion and then it kind of skipped to gr- oh yeah and tile that was so bad with the big fat grout line. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I did do with few of those too. I'm sure they probably were pink. And so then we started doing marble. And so, and I kind of made my living for probably 25 years during some shade of white kitchen with white marble. Yeah. And I still think it's one of the most timeless classics. Look you can get. I do get very excited when people want to do color though. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, because even just, you know, there's definitely been sort of the white, the white, the white. white kitchen, farmhouse, sinks, and so many things that I think... Well, and I mean, are there... Have you seen an arc of different kitchen designs? Because, like I think in the 90s, like everything, everyone wanted a Tuscan kitchen, and you know, and then, you know, in the 80s everything was like really tight and modern and... Like from my... Yeah, so, I guess... kind of together asking is like is there is there an arc or a trend or how long do those things last? I had worked before I got married I'd work for an architect in Birmingham which is located where Shay-Fon-Fon is now. A very very good architect back in the day and we sell small bone cabinets which was a lovely English line of cabinets so again for Birmingham, They were terribly expensive. I mean I think an average kitchen then was probably around a hundred thousand for the cabinets and this was in the Wow you know yeah early 90s late 80s early 90s and so I fell in love with that English style and so when we started our business we didn't mean to start but we did. That's what we did we did that English Inset Cabinet and nobody else was doing that and I think people loved that and I think people loved that and they couldn't get it anywhere else and they helped us in our career. And I think people came to us for that look. So I don't think over the years we did as many trends as other people did, because that's still basically what we do. Yeah, which is absolutely timeless. It really is. We have things in our portfolio that are 30 years old that still looks so pretty. Do those trend type of things just make you cringe? A little bad. Yeah. I just think it's such an expensive room. That's keep it classic. You know if you love purple paint the walls purple or you know the ceiling or wallpaper or fabric or you know but but don't do that I mean no one's doing their cabinets purple but you know keep the cabinets and the back splash and the countertops more classic so that you don't get tired of it and it doesn't date itself. Yeah. Well it would seem like you know things in a kitchen in kitchen trends have just gotten very hyper-functional which is a good thing but just they're so you know many options and in terms of different types of you know cabinet accoutraments and you know so much so what are what are sort of some things that you know are highlights for you as far as you know how kitchens have become more functional and like how they become better I guess kitchen design in general Well I want to break it down by kind of like I want to talk cabmetry first then I want to talk counter talks then I want to talk appliances like I want to break it down by like little bites you know of like what makes the kitchen so you said that you've designed kitchens that you that have stood the tested time what do you think it is about that original company you worked for the English company small bone small what was the details that have stood the tested time what do you think test of time that you can look at that work now and even say that's beautiful in the cabinet tree. It has not changed at all. It's just a simple inset, flush, drawer, door cabinet. We only had ever probably six different door styles. Okay. And people were fine with that. You know, I mean you go to like even in expensive places and they tout that they have 400 door styles, you know. No woman needs to pick from 400 door styles. It's like picking a white paint. So like a shaker. It kind of is, just that basic English inset with different types of bead, always a bead around it. You could have a bead around the center panel or not have a bead where it's more shaker. But we just keep it, we've always kept it very simple and I think that's what it just doesn't change, it doesn't take. It looks like a piece of, like an antique piece. But being inset is what it's important versus the door on top. Yeah, okay. the width of because now I'm looking at doors and I'm having these 400 options and it's it is overwhelming yeah has the width of the I okay what are what are the components of a door like rails and styles but ours we always made ours an inch and a half an inch and a half the face frame and then you have the bead and then you have the door yeah okay great okay now this is all really because those type of ratios are so important. Yeah because it can look chunky or it can you know if you get it too thin it looks cheap or right or you get it too fat and it's and it's too heavy yes well do you ever change the the rail what did you call it the rail part depending on how deep the drawer is like if the drawer is real narrow would the proportion change? No, it's inch and a half, inch and a half, between each thing. And then what about, what about like the toe kick? Because I have four inch. But, but you're, you would do a normal toe kick instead of, well, because when I think of English, um, cabinetry, I think of either no toe kick or like a decorative sort of foot. Try to keep things simple. Yeah. And make it easy for clients. Applances have a four inch toe kick. So if you want it all to line up at the bottom, which are the crazy, which are the crazy, which are the crazy things are the crazy things are the crazy things are the crazy things are the You know we have people all the time like why I'm tall what my cabinets taller we can make them tall as you want them we can't stretch appliances and we can only raise those little legs up so far to keep that line straight at the bottom okay yeah and toe kicks are there for a reason in a kitchen because you otherwise you kick it and if the cabinets are painted that's not gonna wear well over time okay book cases and bookcases and things will run pretty furniture mold around it and as you should or even if the cabinets or even like maybe a powder that toe kick notice next time you cook I mean your feet literally go into the toe kick but that is a true I mean I feel like that is something you're seeing more in on Pinterest so and we have people ask for that and I usually point out why it's there if they want it we'll do anything but it's my job to tell them there's a reason that toe kick is there right and it lines up with the American appliances and brilliant yeah yeah see that's a great reason We're still in cabinetry. How I have noticed I feel like there's a trend towards the drawer versus doors. Yes definitely, which I agree with. Yeah, okay. And why is that? It's just easier to get to everything. Don't you hate? I mean, for so long people I had nothing but doors. I mean, so many kitchens I go in, they'll have like, besides the drawers right the top, they might have one stack. And so your pots and pans are down there and if there's not a roll-out in there, you're having to move the things in there, you're having to move the things in there, you're having to move the front, You just don't use them. You just leave them. It's just you use the same four pots all the time. So drawers just make it easier, it's convenient, it brings everything out to you. And should I expect to pay more for a drawer versus a door? Yes. More labor, more wood. So what would be, like, is it going to be twice the costs? Not? That probably so depends on the cabinet and the cabinet company. I mean, it's, for us, it wouldn't have been, you know, everything, everything was wood and do. Is, and do. But it's not significantly more. It would be more. Okay. Yeah. It does fun I mean I put them in in my kitchen and I will say when my pots and pans are it is true like they're stacked in there perfectly Yeah, and then I go home to my mom's kitchen and I literally am like I can't I can't even see what's in here and then you pull something out everything falls forward and you are like Yeah, yeah if you're used to the I think just the functionality you are like oh, And rollouts are nice. Drawers are better in my opinion because of rollout you have to open the doors you have to open them all the way back or it'll scrape against them. Oh yes, right. But you can't stack more in a rollout than a drawer. So it's nice to have those you know one or two somewhere. Okay. Because I did when we did our last kitchen like 20 something years ago I did all drawers. Only cabinet I had was the sink pace. And I realized that you know like the tall thing of like Chris you know the oil wouldn't fit in a drawer and I literally kept it under my sink it was the only thing that I couldn't get to fit but it was like but you know you learn that yeah and it's so I always do one cabinet somewhere with rollouts for the stoppot or the you know just you have a few tall things yeah okay that's a good one that is a good one okay corners okay corners okay corners okay corners okay corners a corner swing out where it's it's not a lazy soos and it just goes in one direction and comes out to you when people would look at it before the countertops go on they realize that they're wasting about this much in the back because their swing out can't go all the way to the back but it does make it more convenient and it brings it to you I mean I think that's the best option you can do or just kill the corner you know don't have access to it at all okay and most people don't want to do that the best. So Swing Out's versus Lazy Susan. My hands immediately go in as soon as I think of a Lazy Susan just because of the ones that we had in our house that we from our 70s kitchen. Oh no, as a finger? No, but as kids we would get that thing going. Oh, and we would spin it really fast. Was it the kind of door attached to it? Oh, yeah. And those never hold up well. They never hang right. Wait the door was attached to it. So it was like Pac-Man shaped, if you were looking at it overhead. And you had to spin it to... Oh, I do know what you're talking about. I know what you're talking about now. Yeah. Instead of pulling the door open and you literally just push the door. Yes, yes, yes. Right. Yeah, so if you have kids don't get that one. Yeah. Okay, there's so many like inserts and you know, now there's like the spice drawer and there's the skinny pullout next to the oven. put your bottles and what are some of what okay if someone was like I can do a couple I can't afford to do all of them what are the ones that you think are the best bang for your buck I only recommend a few actually spice store I think is the greatest I mean I have it and I'm so not that fabulous organized person but I have them in alphabetical order and you know exactly where everything is you know when you don't have something we do we typically do two cutler drawers one for your cooking utensils next to the range, and then one for your everyday silver. And obviously pull out trash, usually a double trash. Trade aviders are nice. Trade of otters, yeah. I think that's it. Those are, that's it. That's it. Okay. I mean, they make a great pop-up thing for a mixer. I've never seen one that works. I mean, they won't lock, both sides won't lock and then you're, you know, nice kitchen aids teetering around. And I don't know why I don't love those pullouts for the oils and venegars. I just think it's awkward to get to. It's low. I'd rather have that in a wild cabinet or yeah or do a pretty tray next year range and put them on that. Okay. Get a great Ballard tray.