'Lanterns' Episode 6 Deep Dive

House of R

Hosts Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney conduct a deep dive into Episode 6 of the series 'Lanterns,' focusing on the narrative shift to the ye

Key takeaways

The use of a hologram allows the series to maintain the presence of Kyle Chandler despite his character's death.
Jon Stewart is being positioned as a central protagonist capable of carrying the series without Hal Jordan.

Main topics

Lanterns Episode 6 analysis
Hal Jordan's death and the hologram technique

Notable quotes

I hope I matter.

Conclusion

The episode highlights 'Lanterns' as a promising, high-stakes evolutio

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:04) Hello, welcome back to House of R. I'm Joanna Robinson. Joining me today is not Mallory Rubin. It is Rob Mahoney. Rob Mahoney, how are Speaker 2 (0:11) you Speaker 1 (0:11) doing? The Speaker 2 (0:12) pregnant pause worries me. Speaker 1 (0:13) It's like Guy Gardner flying into Rushville. Speaker 2 (0:17) Don't put that on my hair. You know, that's a very rude thing to say about anybody. Speaker 1 (0:21) Everybody supports and admires your hair. I don't Speaker 2 (0:24) think that's true, but that particular bowl cut deserving of... Any horrible thing you can say about Speaker 1 (0:30) it. It's a tough look. All right, we're going to dive into the bowl cut, the white leather, all things Guy Gardner right after this. Speaker 1 (0:49) All right, Lantern season one, episode six. Mallory Rubin is on a much deserved vacation. Yes. I was taken ill last week, which was our plan to sort of pre-record. So what Speaker 2 (0:59) was the plan if you had fallen gravely ill? Was it just going to be me solo potting House of R? Were you Speaker 1 (1:05) ready? Speaker 2 (1:05) No. Do you think you Speaker 1 (1:07) could crack the four hour marker if it was just you? You Speaker 2 (1:09) know what? The depths of, I feel like a solo pod. Yeah. If you can get over the 20 minute hump, Speaker 1 (1:14) the Speaker 2 (1:15) depths of insanity you will stumble into will take you into three and four hours. What's the Speaker 1 (1:19) subject matter that you think you could go longest on if you needed to just like NBA aside? Yeah. Like pop culture wise, what's the subject matter that you could easily crank out four hours? Speaker 2 (1:29) The Beatles biopic experience. I almost Speaker 1 (1:32) sent you the video of them coming out of the balcony. Did you see it? I got to say, Speaker 2 (1:36) I'm coming around on Mescal Paul. Speaker 1 (1:38) But Joe Quinn George is like really tough. All right. That's not the Speaker 2 (1:41) one. Speaker 1 (1:42) We're here to talk about Lanterns. Season one, episode six. Lanterns season one, episode seven will come out maybe Monday, Tuesday, whenever Mallory comes back from vacation. After that, we're getting ready for Vision Quest. We're going to do a WandaVision rewatch. Remember WandaVision? What Speaker 2 (1:59) a delightful show. Sorry, what a delightful half a season of a show. Speaker 1 (2:03) Nope. The whole thing. Speaker 1 (2:05) And so, yeah, we'll be watching WandaVision. And then later this week, though, I am doing a book recommendation podcast, House of Reads. So you guys have been doing a really good job. The listeners have been doing a really good job sending in their book recommendations. Hobbitsanddragons at gmail.com. Rob doesn't read fiction. No. How well Speaker 2 (2:23) represented will nonfiction be on this list? Speaker 1 (2:25) Zero percent. You know, unless you have some suggestions. You Speaker 2 (2:28) can't do like a nonfiction history of witchcraft? If you have one to recommend. Is Speaker 1 (2:31) it Speaker 2 (2:31) below you? Speaker 1 (2:34) If only there were a book about like the Marvel Cinematic Universe or something like that that I could recommend. Like a Speaker 2 (2:39) New York Times bestseller perhaps? Possibly. Speaker 1 (2:41) Something to think about. Speaker 2 (2:42) We'll see. Speaker 1 (2:42) So that's what's coming up. Follow us on socials. Subscribe to the podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Email us as I said at hoppinsanddragons at gmail.com. Spoiler warning for today. Lantern's up through episode six. I don't have a lot of comic book lore to drop on people today. So I don't think we're really going to do like a ton of like lore. diving today, but it could come up. Any other spoiler warning you want to issue? Speaker 2 (3:08) I think they'll come up as they do. Okay. You know, we'll dip and dive into spoiling, I'm sure, all manner of things. Great. Speaker 1 (3:17) Let's go to the opening snapshot. Speaker 1 (3:28) Episode six. I'm just now thinking about your four hour Beatles biopic podcast and how much I want to watch it and listen to it. Don't Speaker 2 (3:34) don't turn me with a good time. Speaker 1 (3:37) Episode six, Bad Optics, directed by Stephen Williams, written by Justin Gibson and Damon Lindelof. Justin wrote the previous episode. Stephen Williams directed a previous episode this season. And these are all people who have worked with Damon Lindelof before. So this is just like a very Lindelof-y verse-y episode. Speaker 1 (3:56) Rob Mahoney, I haven't really talked to you in depth about Lanterns at all. Somehow Speaker 2 (4:00) we've dodged it. Speaker 1 (4:01) We've just been talking about Slow Horses and a number of other things. How are you feeling about the show in general? And how do you feel about this episode? I Speaker 2 (4:08) really enjoy the show a lot. Tell Speaker 1 (4:10) me. Speaker 2 (4:10) I think I've just found it so surprising. Not just like the twists and turns of the plot, some of which are conventional, but like I think the adult nature of it, there have been more like hearts removed from chests than I was expecting. I think part of the reason... that certainly the Marvel TV experience, but honestly also the Marvel movie experience had kind of worn out its welcome was like the guardrails were so clearly defined. We've seen so many of these movies now. We know what they can and can't show. We know what they will and won't do. Even just the idea that in this episode, like I really thought when we got the flash forward of Hal with a hole in his head, that this is some shenanigans, right? Like this is a misdirect. This is like they somehow manipulated. the hologram to do this. Like, there's going to be a way where Hal Jordan is still alive because you don't cast a character this big with an actor this beloved and then take him off the board. I Speaker 1 (5:03) will say, there are still people out there who are clinging to that theory. I Speaker 2 (5:06) mean, that's proof enough that we just want someone like Kyle Chandler doing this kind of stuff. And it's been so fun that... I'm just amazed at what they are willing to do in the places that they're willing to go with. Speaker 1 (5:16) So you mean narratively or you mean like in sort of the violence sector or do you mean or maybe all of the above or do you mean sort of like when you're talking about the guardrails for the MCU? I don't know if you meant like sort of from adult content point of view or if you meant. You know, sometimes the MCU would like to say, oh, we're doing these various genres in this film or that. And some, you know, we're doing Winter Soldier, we're doing espionage, whatever it is. Conspiracy thriller. But there were always sort of limitations because they were trying to fit the puzzle pieces back together. And I'm not just here to take some shots at recent MCU for no reason, because I think what's really key about this episode is the experiment of can we do a true detective gritty-esque. show and still make it fit back into larger continuity. So can we drop Guy Gardner into this world that we've created and does it still feel like it makes sense? And on the one hand, yes. And on the other hand, no. Like, yes, it does. Like it really. works. I was really nervous about it, but it really works. But I think it only works because he's such a punchline character. It's true. That he shows up looking like a cartoonish buffoon inside of this hyper realistic world, but it like goes with his character. Do you know what I mean? But Speaker 2 (6:30) not only does it go with his character, it goes with the lanterns. Like as an organization, there's just something inherently goofy about the idea, the magic ring nature of it. Like I enjoy lanterns as a concept the most when they're this weird. goofy political apparatus of people like these random ass aliens who aren't even trying to get along with each other. They're just all going in different directions at once. Like that's what makes them fun. And to me, it's it kind of grounds them in a way. It's still like interstellar and intergalactic and they're space cops. Yeah. Speaker 1 (7:01) But Speaker 2 (7:02) have your space cops be goofy enough and understand that in context to each other. Speaker 1 (7:06) I think that's just been the question this whole season is like in terms of the bright green constructs or in terms of Sinestro being here, like how goofy and comic book do we want to go? And there are certainly people who are like, it's not green and goofy enough or, you know, or it's too serious or it's too dour. And I just think the something that Mallory and I've been discussing is just sort of the line they've been walking. And inside of this episode, you know, which is very light on Kyle Chandler, which I, you know. I think the more Kyle Chandler, the better. And I'm really relieved to see that the hologram hologram is going to be used the way I was hoping it would be used, which is to extend. Yes. Extend Kyle Chandler's. He can just be around as much as they're willing to pay him. And he's willing to leave his ranch in Texas to do it, you know. And so, you know, something we've been worried about is his tone and humor. And I think in a microcosm sense inside of this episode, when you get something like. Hal Jordan's self-eulogizing, right? And you've got John with his own complicated relationship with Hal reading the eulogy. And it is so like genuinely funny. And then it is genuinely devastating. Like, I hope I matter. Oh my Speaker 2 (8:19) God. I Speaker 1 (8:20) hope I matter. I think it's just going to go down in history. It's funny. I Googled that phrase. before the episode came out. There are certain like things that hit or whatever. And then I Googled it after. And obviously like it's it's juiced by the fact that the episode just came out. But like now pages and pages of results are just this show. And that's when you get a, you know, to go back to WandaVision, when you get like, you know, what is grief? I hope this is Speaker 2 (8:46) not that. Speaker 1 (8:47) Why do you have such hatred for that line? I Speaker 2 (8:50) think it just became. Does it feel very like Speaker 1 (8:53) nevertheless she persisted to you? No, Speaker 2 (8:54) it was almost just like this is the totem that we're going to hold up to show that the thing we love is serious to everyone else. And it's just like just love the thing you do in its own self-evident truth. It felt like trying to prove something to other people, at least the way that line was weaponized on the Internet. Speaker 1 (9:10) That's not I don't believe I ever weaponized it that way. But I think what I what it feels like when you hit something like I hope I mattered, which is not. highfalutin language. It's very simple, but it drills down into a universal truth. And I think that's what what is grief below persevering does. But when you hit something that just like feels so true, feels identifiable and quotable and just sort of like, I hope I mattered. Yeah, really pops. And so in general, like was this my favorite episode of the season? No, but I really, really liked it. I had been worried about like. How is it going to feel when we're just solidly in the 2026 storyline? How is it going to feel to not have as much Hal Jordan around? You know, and I think the first time I watched this episode, I was a little off balance with it. But on subsequent rewatches, I've really come to like love this episode. I Speaker 2 (10:05) think the lack of Hal is the important part, right? Like if Jon Stewart is going to be a lantern of relevance for the future of the cinematic universe, like he needs to be able to carry stories like this without Kyle Chandler in the frame. Like Guy Gardner cannot be our only mainstream canonical lantern forever. Speaker 1 (10:21) Well, no. And Jon Stewart is going to be like our lantern. I Speaker 2 (10:24) mean, Speaker 1 (10:24) too big Speaker 2 (10:24) a character. Like, I mean, most of my introduction and association with that character is through the DC animated stuff, as are a lot of people of our generation, I think. You're Speaker 1 (10:34) using our generation incorrectly. Am Speaker 2 (10:36) I? Yeah, your Speaker 1 (10:37) generation. Who Speaker 2 (10:38) is your Jon Stewart? Like, how did you find your way in? Speaker 1 (10:40) From people younger than me watching the animated Justice League. I wasn't Speaker 2 (10:45) trying to date you. You don't have to ouch yourself in this way. When Speaker 1 (10:49) you said when you started to say that, I was like, yeah, because Rob's of the generation younger for whom Jon Stewart is your lantern because of the animated series. We've been talking about that a lot. And so like he I love that. I love the decision to put Jon Stewart, who was such a sort of like third tier comic book lantern. as the A-team animated Lantern for a generation. And now he's our live action Lantern. Like, it's really, it's thrilling, honestly. Speaker 2 (11:16) I think it will be thrilling. And this episode, maybe more than any of this season, is the proof of concept of him as a solo Lantern experience. You do have Guy coming in for the punchlines. Yeah. But this is, like, without Hal, he has a lot of frame to fill, a lot of story to carry. And I personally was delighted at how often this just drifted straight into Rebel Ridge territory. Yeah. With Aaron Pierre just being surrounded by guys who he needs to beat up. Sign me up for as much of that as you would like to do. Speaker 1 (11:43) You're like, where's the road bike, though? Speaker 2 (11:46) Where's the civil forfeiture happening in here? Speaker 1 (11:48) It's true. Speaker 1 (11:50) So one thing, you know, that Mal and I had been sort of speculating about was possibly a way to use Kyle Chandler was to give us flashbacks to what he was up to between 2016 and 2026. But now that's like for the most part off the table because he was locked up for the last decade. I mean, we can check in on what he was doing. Well, we know what he was Speaker 2 (12:08) doing. Speaker 1 (12:09) In prison, writing letters. He was making the moves. He Speaker 2 (12:12) was Speaker 1 (12:12) courting. Speaker 2 (12:12) I mean. He was going courting. Clearly no one in this show and in the world is immune to Kyle Chandler's charms. Except for Jon Stewart. He is the one who seems impervious. I don't know. Speaker 1 (12:23) It kind of works on Jon too, I think. It's true. Speaker 2 (12:25) Certainly by the end, all it took was one self-written eulogy. He's like, man, I'm back. Speaker 1 (12:29) All Speaker 2 (12:29) I know is Bernadette went from lifelong grudge against this man. Fuck this guy who sat at my kitchen table. Now she's sending him pinups for the long nights in prison. This is... Speaker 1 (12:42) Is that what you think was going on between Bernadette and Hal? I Speaker 2 (12:45) think there wasn't nothing going on. Speaker 1 (12:47) Okay, okay. What do you, Rob Mahoney, think you would do if you got a voice memo from Kyle Chandler? Calling me buttercup? Calling you buttercup. Speaker 2 (12:57) I think I would be more receptive to it than Carrie would be. Oh, Speaker 1 (13:02) I don't know. I think it kind of worked on Carrie. I think Speaker 2 (13:04) the idea of we are finding our pet names seemed to work on her. I just can't imagine a universe in which she accepts Buttercup as like, okay, this is the one we're settling on. Speaker 1 (13:13) What do you think the endearment that she would go for would be? Speaker 2 (13:17) That's not for me to say. Okay. I'm Speaker 1 (13:19) just basing Speaker 2 (13:20) off like, yes. But like the Speaker 1 (13:21) person. You can't choose your own endearment. You can't choose your own nickname. You can't choose your own endearment. Speaker 2 (13:26) But I think you have a certain amount of veto power. For Speaker 1 (13:27) sure. I think she liked Buttercup. Speaker 2 (13:29) You think so? Yeah. Speaker 1 (13:30) I think there are people like Sheriff Carrie who are hard asses all the time and want to be Buttercuped when they're at home. Speaker 2 (13:37) I think Speaker 1 (13:38) that's true. Speaker 2 (13:39) Hard ass in the streets, Buttercup in the sheets? Correct. Speaker 1 (13:41) Or Buttercup at least while you're watching. Sure. Speaker 2 (13:45) Cuddled up Speaker 1 (13:45) under the Speaker 2 (13:46) fuzzy blanket together. Speaker 1 (13:47) Split in a pizza. Yeah. and watching the Scurs, the Huskers. The Scurs, apparently. The Scurs, I guess. Speaker 2 (13:53) You know, let's leave that be where it belongs in the Midwest. But I think regardless of however she would have reacted had Hal continued to live, now she has to accept it because this is the voice memo she holds dear and I'm sure will replay many times throughout her life. Sad. Yeah. Speaker 1 (14:09) All right, quick mailbag from our listeners. Just a couple this week. So on the sort of people still... not being willing to give up the idea that Hal Jordan is still alive somewhere. Our listener Bill wrote in to say, can't believe Stewie, using Guy Gardner's nickname for Jon Stewart, went to all the trouble to dig up Hal's corpse and didn't cut his heart out just to make sure he's not a Manhunter. He knows there's a mystery going on in Manhunterville. He knows that Zoe didn't change back when she died. Got to make sure that the corpse is really Hal. So would you, Rob Mahoney? And all your skepticism endorse cutting out the heart of Hal Jordan just to make really sure that it's Hal Jordan. Okay. So Speaker 2 (14:54) that email is from Billy? Speaker 1 (14:55) Bill. Speaker 2 (14:56) Bill. Bill. What kind of sick fuck are you, Bill? Do your Speaker 1 (14:59) favorite down the camera address. Speaker 2 (15:01) Are we just cutting the hearts out of everybody now? Every corpse that rolls through the morgue? Speaker 1 (15:07) Well, are you not? I mean, Bitsy probably should, but like. I love Bitsy. I mean, who doesn't love Bitsy? But like. Where are you on the larger there is another Skywalker, there is another Manhunter theory? Of Speaker 2 (15:19) course there is. And y'all have been all over it. Noah is obviously a Manhunter. Okay, great. Why else is he in the show? Speaker 1 (15:26) Okay. Follow up email from our listener, Joe. If we find out that Zoe named this kid as a not subtle anti-lanterns message, Noah equals no Oa. Speaker 1 (15:39) Let's chalk that up. He was just going through all of Zoe's mistake. And he was like, he's like, yes, naming children is tough. And she wouldn't be the first villain with a desire to coyly mock her adversary looking at you, Riddler. It's fine to settle on Noah for first couple suggestions were Manny or Hunter. But if you're trying to hide another Manhunter, let's keep our eye on the goal and just name him Kevin. I actually think Noah's name. I mean, I love the idea that it's Noah. Yeah, Speaker 2 (16:02) I Speaker 1 (16:03) think it's like. Speaker 2 (16:04) I mean, that is cute. I Speaker 1 (16:05) think it's Noah. We're repopulating the earth two by two. That's why I think he's named Noah. We Speaker 2 (16:09) are going arc heavy in this episode. There is an arc reference. A little arc reference. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I guess the question is, do you think there's any more than Noah at this point? Noah feels very solid. Speaker 1 (16:18) Well, our theory had been that perhaps Billy was like a shittier Manhunter. But the way he just went down with one punch from John, I'm taking Billy off the Manhunter board. Speaker 2 (16:29) Well, plus, and look, this is where it gets a little uncomfortable with the Noah conversation. One of the definitive things we know about Manhunters is they fuck. Like, this is what they do. It's true. And look, everyone wanted to fuck Zoe constantly. And it kind of Speaker 1 (16:44) seems like the whole town wants to fuck Noah. I Speaker 2 (16:46) mean, Speaker 1 (16:46) everyone's like really into the hat ceremony. I Speaker 2 (16:50) had never considered that modern courtship in sports today is really just the scholarship and recruiting of a hat ceremony. Wow. Think about it. Joe, you're blowing my mind. There Speaker 1 (17:00) is a scene I kind of spun out trying to hear what they were saying. When John's at the dinner table at Sheriff Carrie's house and she gets a phone call that's like, hey, did you know that John got into a straight fight with Billy and some rednecks? Noah and John are carrying on a conversation in the background. Speaker 2 (17:21) Yeah. And Speaker 1 (17:21) the only thing that the closed captioning grabs is like the last. line where he says something like, Lila is great, thanks for asking. Hoping that it's Speaker 2 (17:31) a Speaker 1 (17:31) Lila Garrity sort of nod, who's to say? But he says that, and so then I was like, okay, what were they talking about that that's the end? And so we go back and you hear, it seems like John had been hearing rumors of Noah's many exploits, because he's like, I heard of Elisa or Alula. Like he's like, he's like Mambo number fiving, like naming all these girls that Noah's dating. So if you're talking about like who in town has game, I love this, the hat ceremony sort of like sports analogy. But I also think Noah literally is like cleaning up with the L named girls of the town. Speaker 2 (18:09) Yeah. I mean, especially as opposed to five Speaker 1 (18:11) teenagers who are left in Rushville. I don't know. And Speaker 2 (18:14) maybe this does kind of feed into Billy as failed Manhunter because. That guy is just swaggerless. And frankly, like some of it is having Jason Ritter, an actor I think has many great qualities, deliver threats of physical violence. It's just like one of the least believable things on this show. And Speaker 1 (18:31) what's true about Jason Ritter is I believe he has this like inherent sort of nerdy swagger to him. Yes. So they've like asked him to turn off all of his charisma for Billy. So, yeah, I don't think he's Speaker 2 (18:43) a Speaker 1 (18:43) man. I don't think so either. He Speaker 2 (18:44) could Speaker 1 (18:44) be like a shitty failed Manhunter. or just not a Manhunter at all. Speaker 2 (18:48) That seems most plausible. But Noah, I mean, I would be shocked at this point. And really, the tell of all tells in this episode. Speaker 1 (18:54) Even Speaker 2 (18:54) if you were never on this train, you didn't buy it to this point. Lanterns asks you to bend your belief in a lot of things, right? Like there's a magical ring that has infinite capacity to construct anything that your imagination could possibly dream up. I'm on board. Sure. An 18-year-old sits at a dinner table and says the phrase, I love politics in 2026. Speaker 1 (19:18) This is an Speaker 2 (19:19) alien. Speaker 1 (19:20) He wants to be president. I'm sure it's fine. Don't even worry about it. He has like a nine-year-old wrote to FEMA. Don't worry about it. It's fine. Everything's going to be fine. I'm really excited for Billy to be our new Billy for president. Honestly, we've done worse. You know what we have? Let's go now to it's not going to be a classic Mallory Rubin deep dive, but we're going to call it the deep dive. Speaker 2 (19:47) Yeah, without Mal, I mean, am I am I deputized in this situation? Like I can at least buy the Speaker 1 (19:53) power vested in me. I mean, Speaker 2 (19:54) I would think the Speaker 1 (19:55) podcasting core. I Speaker 2 (19:57) can feed a plant. I can dragon sit. I could do something. But, you know, obviously it's not going to be as dragon Speaker 1 (20:02) sit. Yeah. What kind of dragon sitter would you be? Do you think attendant? Speaker 2 (20:06) OK, you know, responsible. I want to I want to like. Treat them enough where they like me, but not so much that they're spoiled rotten when Mal comes back. Speaker 1 (20:15) Of course. No, no, no. You got to keep them lean and mean. On the Noah front, and then we'll start at the beginning of the episode, but on the Noah front, at this point, if he's not the killer, then they will really have surprised me. Do Speaker 2 (20:30) you know what I mean? Well, so walk me through Noah as killer. Because admittedly, I will say this is my biggest blind spot on the show right now is... It's established in this episode that like whatever it is that killed Hal, he saw it coming. It's like head on nine millimeter, relatively close range. It's Speaker 1 (20:45) either Carrie or it's Noah. That's what I think. It's either Carrie protecting Noah. Yes. Speaker 2 (20:50) As she promised to Zoe that she would do. Or Speaker 1 (20:52) it was Noah himself. Yeah. I'm of two minds about it because there's a part of me that that really suspected her. And I like all the moments inside this episode where she's like. Do you think I did it and called you and this is the cover for me doing it? You know, they're sort of like lampshading the lampshade to sort of just say, like, we're just going to say your theory. Yeah. And if we say it, you know, sort of thing. But I agree with John that she's actually quite heartbroken about. So she could be Speaker 2 (21:22) heartbroken because she had to kill him, killed Speaker 1 (21:24) him and been heartbroken about it. The reason I'm worried that it or I'm wondering if it's Noah. Because I like the idea that it's Carrie desperately sad that she's doing it. And he just sort of like, does he say like, it's okay, buttercup? And like, let's her do it. I Speaker 2 (21:41) think he might Speaker 1 (21:41) have. It's okay, buttercup? I think Speaker 2 (21:42) he might have even encouraged her. Speaker 1 (21:44) Okay. Oh, no. In Speaker 2 (21:46) the it's okay, buttercup. Like, I know you have to do this. I have to be here. This is what it's got to be. But Speaker 1 (21:52) the Noah thing, to go back to what Zoe said earlier about killing Abin Sur, you know, when she tells John about that and she's just sort of like. She didn't want to do it, but it was sort of just in her nature to survive. So I feel like Hal has figured out is on the case that Noah, that there's something going on with Noah. Like, I think Hal, I think he's genuinely there for Carrie. Like, I don't think he's in town just to investigate Noah. Speaker 2 (22:17) Yeah. But Speaker 1 (22:18) I think when he's there, he's like, why does this entire town want to fuck this kid? Like, oh, no. Is he a mini Manhunter? Well, Speaker 2 (22:25) at the risk of Buffy spoilers, he's got the Letterman jacket. It's true. It's a powerful thing. Speaker 1 (22:31) I can't believe you're referencing a season seven episode of Buffy. You know, Speaker 2 (22:35) there are some bangers. Actually, I don't know that that one's a banger, but it has its qualities. I did Speaker 1 (22:39) write Never Kill a Boy on a First Date when John's like, I love an autopsy. I was like, I've seen that before. Let Speaker 2 (22:46) me ask. I didn't have a chance to listen to the last episode of House of R. Please forgive me. Oh, I Speaker 1 (22:50) do. Did Speaker 2 (22:50) you comment on the official like fighting via lampshade in a show that has been lampshading so heavily? I mean, they're literally beating the shit out Speaker 1 (22:58) of Speaker 2 (22:58) each other with lampshades. Speaker 1 (23:00) Brilliant. Speaker 2 (23:00) What a show. This Speaker 1 (23:01) is why. What a Speaker 2 (23:02) series. Speaker 1 (23:02) This is why you're the best. But like. Speaker 1 (23:08) Something that Zoe said to Noah right before she died when she's like, hey, you're a manhunter. I'm a manhunter. Remember the lessons that I taught you when she said that in the last episode? She literally said it. So Zoe said to Noah right before she died, what did I tell you about spying? And he says, see you without being seen. Speaker 2 (23:26) And Speaker 1 (23:26) inside of this episode, we get Carrie saying to John, Noah and I never went there. Basically, I never told him that I was dating Hal. And then in this episode, Noah says at the dining room table, I know you guys were together. Do you think I'm a fucking idiot? You know what I mean? So he it feels like he discovered using this sort of like see without being seen, discovered that Hal and Carrie were in a relationship. So could that have been a reason for him to do something? But would that be reason enough Speaker 2 (23:59) to kill him? Speaker 1 (23:59) I think it's more that he felt like threatened by Hal. and could have killed him or carrie felt like no it was being threatened by helen felt like compelled by her program you know her own programming the way in which they're all sort of under the sway and the spell of the manhunter like where are your obligations and i think that would fit in really well for the larger conversation the show is having about like where where does your allegiance or your obligation lie? Like the way in which Jon is being pulled in nine different directions inside of this episode between his brothers and his parents. And then like the pull of Hal and the pull of the ring and the pull of Rushville. I think that's sort of like, where does your allegiance lie? Same with like Hal and Sinestro and the guardians and all this sort of thing. Like what, what law do you obey? And, and. Oughtn't it be something inside of you? And I think that's what's so interesting about where we find John here in 2026 because we're watching him. We know he's going to wind up being a lantern by the end of this series, right? One would think. We Speaker 2 (25:04) have Speaker 1 (25:04) two more episodes, right? He's got a ring on his finger now. It's Speaker 2 (25:07) back. Speaker 1 (25:07) That's great. But he rejected it before. So 10 years later, what is different now that he's choosing it? Speaker 2 (25:16) He's eating meat now. Oh, okay. That's it? Meat's back on the menu. Okay. Speaker 1 (25:19) It's just the iron? Speaker 2 (25:20) Honestly, it might be, you know, he's a different man. Well, look, I think there is the larger some of the quaint idea within the larger theme that you're exploring. There is like, can you ever have a normal life if you were raised to be chosen one space cop? Not just like, who do you listen to? But like, is that even a plausible thing to want for yourself or to expect? I think the answer from this episode is like pretty clearly no. Like every time he attempts to have it all, it just blows up in his face. People are hanging up the phone. Things are going wrong left and right. Like that doesn't seem like something that would be in the cards for him. But like he is trying to protect people in his own way, I guess, as a civilian. It's just like there's a limit to that. Like you can only put 20,000 people even in your little Dream Arc shelter. But you put that ring on your finger and anything is possible. It's like, how do you resist that pull? I don't know. Speaker 1 (26:10) To give a little like prestige TV cross promotion, were you thinking at all about the storage container apartment pitch in Slow Horses? They look Speaker 2 (26:20) exactly like them. It Speaker 1 (26:21) looks exactly like that. Except Speaker 2 (26:23) these are, I mean, blast proof, disaster proof, starfish Speaker 1 (26:29) proof. You don't think Sterling is giving us that? I don't think Speaker 2 (26:33) the integrity is quite the same. Speaker 1 (26:35) Here we go. John gets into the panic industry. He's in Midway. He lives in Midway City now, which is, as I'm sure you know, Rob, home of Hawkgirl, canonically in the DCU. I do love Speaker 2 (26:45) Hawkgirl. We all love Hawkgirl. I'm going to be honest. Who Speaker 1 (26:47) doesn't? The turtleneck and the overcoat look, which he wears in various earth tone hues inside of the steps.