Why Creativity Is a Human Need | With Amie McNee

Homing

In this episode of Homing, host Matt Gibbard interviews writer and creative coach Amy McNee about why creativity is a fundamental biological

Key takeaways

• Creativity is a biological need; ignoring it can lead to physiological changes like depression and suppressed immune function.
• Amy McNee cites research by Dr. Daisy Fancourt regarding the physical impact of creative acts on human health.

Main topics

• Creativity as a biological need
• Physical impacts of suppressing art

Notable quotes

Creativity is a biological need for human beings to have ideas and to make them manifest.

Conclusion

The episode serves as an inspiring call to action for individuals to r

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:03) Hello there. Welcome back to Homing. I'm Matt Gibbard. My guest today is Amy McNee, who is a writer and creative coach, among other things. I discovered her online, which is quite unusual, but I was watching a TED Talk of hers on YouTube. And I just thought it was so interesting that I really wanted to get to know her a little bit better. So that's exactly what we did today. And her central belief is that creativity... is a fundamental human need. So it's not a luxury, it's not just for artists, but it's something that we all need to tap into. For her, there's a kind of very broad definition of what that means, that word creativity. So it could be writing a novel, it could be painting, but equally actually it could be something quite simple, like baking or singing in the shower or gardening or something like that. We talk about what happens when we neglect that. creative instinct. Modern life of course makes it a lot harder to protect it and Amy's really hot on this idea that we really need to try and ring fence it. So we need to make space for play much like we did when we were children and we need more boredom in our lives. Of course one of the things I wanted to talk to her about was the idea of you know ring fencing creativity within the home itself. So she likes the idea of leaving materials out and visible and accessible. on the table so that you just sort of always stumble across them. And she's also very fiercely protective of her personal space and the idea of solitude as well. So she doesn't really like having people around to her home, which I completely understand. Amy, I think, is really funny. She's really forthright and I think has such an interesting perspective on the world. She's just not interested in the idea that art should be always good or useful or make a profit, but that it's something that we should just all do because it's a human need. So I really enjoyed this and I hope you do too. It's Homing with Amy McNee. Hi, Amy. Speaker 1 (2:06) Hi Matt. Speaker 2 (2:08) Thanks so much for being here. I really appreciate it. And I'm really looking forward to talking to you about creativity because I know that's your thing. So I want to start with this idea that you've said that creativity is a biological need, which I love and I totally agree with. But what do you mean by that? Speaker 1 (2:24) I mean that when we ignore our creative impulses, we see it in our bodies and we see it in the way that... our lives are impacted. Like this is not a nice to have. It's not a decoration. It's not an addition to our lives without a creative act, without making things. I think we see. physiological change. And we're seeing more and more research lately that comes out that says we really do see physiological change when we don't create. There's been some amazing research that's come out with the researcher called Dr. Daisy Fancourt. Like this is literally a biological need for human beings to have ideas and to make them manifest. And I just don't think we live in a culture that really respects art in that way. Speaker 2 (3:06) So interesting. So just tell me about that physical thing that you mentioned then. What happens to us physically? Speaker 1 (3:12) I mean, I don't know about what happens to you, Matt, but for me, I will feel a depression, an apathy, almost like a lethargy, a stillness in my body. I become very sluggish. I have way lower energy. I've had creatives that I've worked with in the past that when they are in long periods of block become like have suppressed immune system. And we do see immune function changing when it comes to creativity. We see us being more. vulnerable to colds, like silly things like that. Like we, our bodies are not as strong if we are choosing to, or if we are unable to participate in the act of creativity. I Speaker 2 (3:50) mean, Speaker 1 (3:50) we've all gone through creative blocks, I think, but I had a particularly long era of it in my early twenties where I really felt like I needed to grow up and get serious about my life. And so I decided to put my childish art things to the side and be a real adult. And I have never been that mentally unwell, ever. I was so out of alignment with who it was, who it is I am. And I became, I mean, I've never been that depressed in my life. I was so, so sad every day of my life. Speaker 2 (4:24) Wow. Okay. I'm sorry to hear that. That's fascinating though, isn't it? So when you say that you put it to one side, what did you decide to do instead? Speaker 1 (4:31) Oh, I decided to go and find a real job and grow up and get on with my life because that's what everyone else around me was doing. I had, you know, had my era of, you know, trying to make it work as an actor and I tried to write a book and everyone else just seemed to be getting on with it. And I really didn't want to get on with it, but there was a voice inside of my head and there was like an internalized. like almost policing system. And I was like, well, Amy, you've got to do what the rest of them are doing. It's time to be an adult. Like you're moving on in life. Like, let's get serious. And I found it to be the most excruciating process. And I couldn't do it in the end. And thank goodness I couldn't, right? I just, I'm so glad that I couldn't tolerate it because it led me back to my art and it led me back to a whole life of creativity, but it wasn't exquisitely painful many years. Speaker 2 (5:20) Out of interest, what kind of job did you do? Speaker 1 (5:22) I did them all, Matt. I was like, maybe I was like, every time I was like, maybe it's a job that doesn't fit. Like I was in finance. I became a personal trainer. You know, I was, I was in childcare. I was in the education system. I tried so many different things because every time I was like, that made me want to end it all. So maybe I need to not be in finance and maybe I need to be in, and it just, none of it worked. And I think most of it didn't work was. because I was ignoring such a huge part of who I was, which was I am a storyteller and a creator and a maker. And what I thought was childish things to be left behind, it was actually like the very core of who I was. Speaker 2 (5:58) Okay. I mean, I was thinking as you were talking there, you know, lots of people are financiers, lots of people work in education, lots of people work in all sorts of other things and like you are very creative. Speaker 1 (6:10) What would you advise them to do if they're Speaker 2 (6:12) sort of having to somewhat deny a part of themselves a little bit by doing those jobs? Not Speaker 1 (6:17) that Speaker 2 (6:17) they might really enjoy those jobs to some extent, but they also might feel that something else goes on the back burner. What should they do? Speaker 1 (6:24) Yeah, I mean. The first thing I want to say is that you're still an artist when you're at your, in inverted commas, real job. You're still a creator when you're being a proper adult. And that part of us doesn't go away. And it doesn't need to go away just because our, you know, the main way we make money isn't through artistry. It doesn't need... to be a suppression of our creativity in its entirety. It is, as I say that though, it is very difficult to find space for creativity in our lives when we're not just having our regular job that makes our income, but we also have families. We also are trying to take care of our bodies. We're trying to have friends. Like there's so many different lives that we're trying to lead in this world. And creativity does often just get pushed to the side. Like it's the first thing to go. You know, when we are trying to look at things to cut off our list because our life's gotten so big. We're not cutting out our kids or even we're not cutting off go to the gym. We're cutting off maybe try to learn the piano. You know, it's the first thing that gets shoved. And it's valid. We don't live in a society that values it very much. So I understand why it's the first thing off the list. But I think a lot of what my job is to do is to encourage people to realize how much more important it is than we've been told. find sacred moments. It doesn't need to be every day. It doesn't even need to be every week, but you need to create and listen to that voice inside your head that wants to make things and you need to follow through with it. Like an action needs to be taken. Speaker 2 (7:46) Okay. I like that. Good call to action. And I'm conscious that someone may, because I have friends like this who say, they may be sitting there going, well, I don't have a creative bone in my body, right? This is not what I do. This is not for me. It doesn't apply to me. What do you think about that? Is everyone creative in that way, would you say? Speaker 1 (8:05) I love it when someone says that to me. I'm like, oh, wrong person. You've walked right into it. You've walked right into it. And my partner will be around and he'll be like, oh, fuck, they've gone right into the trap. I just don't believe it. I don't believe it for a second. I think we pedestal the term art and the word artist because I know so many people just see that term and think, You mean painter, you mean someone who's in a gallery. But what I'm talking about when I speak about art or creativity, it's this impulse to create, to make something, whether that's gardening, like to make a garden that was not there before, to bake goods that do not exist before, to sing in the shower, to write poetry, to want to act. I'm not going to be picky about this. I really don't like how... snooty we get about what is and isn't art. You know, it's the creative act. It's making something that wasn't there before. And all of us have it. It's a human need to create and to make. And so for those who say, oh, I don't have a creative bone in my body. The first thing I want to say to them is, I'm so sorry that you think this. Who taught you that? Like, who told you that? And a lot of the times someone's going to bring up their art teacher who was an absolute dick to them when they were like. 10 years old or parents who said, oh, you can't sing. So please shut up. The act of creativity is very, very vulnerable. It's so closely linked to who we are as a person. So if we've got wounds like that, especially from our childhood, a lot of us just shut it off. We just say, okay, well, that's obviously not for me. And that hurt too much for me to continue. And so we've got to do the work of unpacking that because. We are here as human beings to make and create. I think terrible things happen when we suppress that part of ourselves. Speaker 2 (9:52) Really interesting. So you touched on gardening, for example, there. But what are other examples of art and inverted commas or creativity that people can pursue that aren't so obvious? Speaker 1 (10:04) Yeah. I was speaking to someone the other day, a young boy who was like, I really want to do a Pokemon, like a YouTube channel about Pokemon. I was like, that's an art form. You want to make video about something that you just love and put it online. All that is, is creative process. And we can get very picky about like what's art on the internet and, you know, all these influencers aren't artists. If you're creating something and it feels vulnerable and it feels like a part of you has been put out into the world, this is a form of art. So I'm trying to think of some other ones that are a bit niche or a bit out of left field. But there are so many, like I see art all the time, every day, walking up and down the street. Today, I was just on a walk, someone was practicing their piano, I could hear it. I was like, oh, and it was kind of terrible, but it was also kind of wonderful. You know, it was just beautiful. And I was like, more of this, more of this, please. Speaker 2 (11:01) Really nice. Is it fair to say it's quite a childlike impulse, this idea of accessing that part of ourselves? Because I feel like we, as you say, we sort of grow up, don't we? And we kind of think, well, that's the child side of myself and I sort of don't need that anymore. And we grow up. So how does our approach to creativity and playfulness change as we age in that way? Speaker 1 (11:23) I think that if we have... a relatively healthy childhood, barring anything really traumatic happening, we very instinctively play and create. And so we say, oh, art is very childlike. And we talk about the inner child. And I understand why we do that. It's because these kids so instinctively know how to create and make and play and make mess. But I think then we've given it only to the kids. And we say that when we grow up, that is something that we have to stop doing. But it is something that we must continue doing. And I resent and I grieve this culture that we have, which tries to weed it out of our adults. And I think it's because for most of us, it doesn't produce money. And so it's seen as something for only children to do. Because why would you waste your time, you know, knitting or... I don't know, making up a game of D &D. Why would you spend your time doing that? Because there's no monetary reward and there's no fame that comes with it. But, you know, nobody asks me why I play bad tennis every now and again, because we accept, you know, sport as a recreational activity. But for some reason, art... People ask me all the time, especially before I was more established in my career, why are you writing these fantasy novels? Why are you writing these silly stories? They couldn't get their head around it. And we need that attitude to change. If I'm allowed to play shitty tennis, then I should be allowed to draw shitty drawings and it'd be okay. Speaker 2 (12:54) Fantastic. I couldn't agree more. I'm kind of intrigued by you, Amy. If it's all right, I'd love to just find out a bit more about you because... I so agree with everything you said so far. Where did you grow up and what was your childhood like? Was it filled with play or was it actually a bit denied? I'm interested. Speaker 1 (13:10) Yeah, I feel incredibly blessed with the childhood I had. Was it filled with play and mess and art? Both my parents, I think, had had art in some way or other taken from them and robbed of them. And so I think they saw it as their duty to give it to. us and my siblings. And so I was allowed to make a lot of mess. I'm a very go big or go home sort of person. And I got into the theater and I got into the theater. Like I was doing three or four plays at a time. And I had parents who would just take me from one rehearsal to the next. I was never once told by them that this was. silly thing to pursue that what's the point of it? Is this going to be your career? And even when, you know, I know I made them nervous when I just didn't stop doing it. I know I made them nervous when this wasn't just something for childhood, when I decided I wanted to keep on doing this into my twenties and into my thirties. They worried for me, but they never once sat me down and told me, Hey, what you up to? Like there was always permission there. And I'm, I'm indebted to that. And the permission I had. is something now that I want to keep giving to others and to myself again and again. It's not permission that only needs to be given once. Like I need permission every day to play and make mess and to create. But no, I was very blessed with a childhood that allowed for creativity and allowed for art. This is a big part of why I get to do what I do today. Speaker 2 (14:34) That's great to hear. I was thinking about some friends of mine and they are both doctors and they have three kids, I think, maybe. And one of the children has now left school and is pursuing a