Charlene Prempeh: Why More Space Isn’t the Key to a Happier Home

Homing

In this episode of Homing, Matt Gibberd visits writer and creative consultant Charlene Prempeh in her North London home. Growing up in a crowded council house in Canning Town with a large

Key takeaways

• Solitude is not loneliness; for Charlene, being alone is a cherished state cultivated from her crowded childhood.

Main topics

• Childhood in a crowded household
• The value of solitude after an overstimulating upbringing

Notable quotes

"I love being alone now. Like, I love going for dinner by myself. Like, I love going on holiday by myself. I love going to get a coffee by myself. I really enjoy my own space. And I don't feel lonely when I'm by myself. It feels like a treat."

Conclusion

Charlene Prempeh's journey from a bustling childhood to embracing solitude reveals that

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:00) Increasingly, that idea of like taking care of oneself being the central piece in order for everything else to work has become more and more evident to me. In the ideal world and in moments, what a book can be for me or what words can be a way of changing my understanding of what the world is. Speaker 2 (0:26) I know that the stages of grief and you're meant to hit acceptance at the end. I don't think that's how it works. I think it's all constantly going on simultaneously and in cycles. I think I started grieving all over again when I had kids and my mum wasn't here. Speaker 2 (0:44) I think we spend so much time thinking about how we present ourselves in small and big ways. I think there's something about when you're at home in your body, at home in a space, at home with a person, you're not second guessing all of that. You are just 100 % who you are and that feels like enough. So for me, that's what I miss. Speaker 1 (1:12) Hello there, welcome to Homing with me, Matt Gibbard. Today I've come to North London, or back to North London, very close to where I grew up in Highbury, to visit Charlene Prempeh, who's a writer and creative consultant. So Charlene is the founder of A Vibe Called Tech, which is a creative studio that champions black culture. She's also a columnist for the Financial Times, and she's curated an upcoming exhibition at the Design Museum. which is called The New Black Aesthetic. She and I have met once or twice in the past, but it was really good to get to know her a bit better. We have a mutual friend in common, the lovely Malihah. So hello, Malihah, if you're listening. And yeah, I just really enjoyed this visit. Charlene told me all about her background, as always. She grew up in a small council house in Canning Town, and she described it as teeming with people. So she was the youngest of four, raised by a single mother. And there were cousins and friends and members of the community constantly coming and going. And what's really interesting is that she talked about how that quite overcrowded childhood has left her with a love of solitude. So she spends a lot of time on her own. So we really dug into what that means. We also talked about why she doesn't believe that having more space at home necessarily makes you happier. Something that she's written about in the past and I think is really interesting. We talk about why she found herself having to shapeshift a bit when she went to Oxford University. She came from a sixth form college in North London. It really wasn't the kind of classic path through education. So that was really interesting to delve into as well. And of course, as always, we talked about what it means to feel truly at home in yourself. And she's got some really interesting viewpoints on that. I really enjoyed this one. Charlene is really funny and a very, very open, genuine person. And yeah, I hope you enjoy it too. Here it is. Speaker 1 (3:17) Hi, Charlene. Hi, Matt. Thanks so much for having us here. Thank you for coming. It's really nice to be in your home. So let's set the scene a bit. So we're in Highbury, North London, or Arsenal. Arsenal. Arsenal, close to the stadium. Yeah. Champions. Champions, indeed. It is about 35 degrees outside, as it has been all summer. Speaker 2 (3:38) Yeah. It's like London is not quite burning, but it's very, very hot. This room especially doesn't have, just has cafe curtains. So you really get the light and the heat in here, which is great. Speaker 1 (3:55) Yeah, south-facing. Yeah. Big sash, single-glaze sash windows. Speaker 2 (4:00) Just Speaker 1 (4:00) made for this type of Speaker 2 (4:01) temperature. It's Speaker 1 (4:02) good. But it's a lovely room. And I, yeah, I should say that you kindly showed me around the flat. Yeah. And that will be available on Patreon as always. But it was really... It was actually really fun. You're very funny. So I'm looking forward to this. You're very funny. And you've got some really interesting things in here. So we'll come on to talking about this place later on. Yep. But we always start at the beginning, which is your background. So you briefly told me earlier, I think, that you grew up as the youngest of four. Is that right? Speaker 2 (4:34) I grew up as the youngest of four children. Speaker 1 (4:36) Yeah? Yeah. And what sort of environment was it? Speaker 2 (4:40) Unsurprisingly, quite a chaotic one. So there's like a nine-year age gap between my eldest sister and myself. She actually lives around the corner, partly why we bought this place. If I could trot over to her, we have to go through Arsenal to get to her house. But yes, we grew up in Canning Town, not very far away from the big A13 motorway. I used to run across it to get to McDonald's, which now I'm just like... Wow, run the corner. literally like dodging cars to get a chicken sandwich and fries. But yes, we kind of grew up in Canning Town. It was like a tiny council house. And at the time, actually, we lived with our cousins as well. So, and my aunt and my uncle. I don't know why I've kind of slightly forgotten about that. So yeah, it was really like there wasn't a lot of space. Speaker 2 (5:34) There were always people coming in and out of the house as well. My mum was a massive cook, but she was also just a beautifully generous person with both her time and the little resources that she had. So there were always dinners and all people just coming to stay who were in town from Ghana. So yeah, it felt very much like a hub. Does that make sense? Speaker 1 (6:02) Yeah, it does. Yeah. Okay, so four children. Yep. Your mum. Speaker 2 (6:07) Yep. Speaker 1 (6:08) People coming and going. Yep. What, extended family? Speaker 2 (6:11) Extended family. So in Ghana, there is no word for cousin. Speaker 1 (6:19) Okay. It's just like brothers and sisters. Oh, really? Speaker 2 (6:22) Yeah, yeah, yeah. So then everyone else who's like three or four or five or eight times removed is your cousin. So there were cousins. as well as all the brothers and sisters. And then my mum was quite religious actually. So then there was also kind of people from the church. And then in like, in addition to that, what I really loved and actually what I think is probably quite different now to then was my mum was a single mother and she had friends in like similar situations who we were at school with and they would very much mother each other's kids. Speaker 1 (6:56) So Speaker 2 (6:56) if like Auntie Angela... was like one of the key people in this group and if she couldn't pick up her kids and my mum would pick up her kids and then we'd bring them home and we'd give them dinner and vice versa we spent a lot of time auntie angela's house and auntie connie's house and vice versa like yvonne had auntie connie's daughter would spend time at ours so there was just kind of this ecosystem of church and school friends and family and cousins and just people the entire time Speaker 1 (7:25) That's amazing on one level, isn't it? And actually, presumably, a little challenging on another level. Yeah, Speaker 2 (7:30) exactly. And I think it's funny because I didn't really... think about how much it's affected my my sense of space or like how I live my life um until quite recently but I suppose what it meant was that there was no there was never a time to be alone I cannot think I honestly I've spent hours here wracking my brain and thinking of a time that I was alone in that house like I wouldn't be able to think of one how Speaker 1 (7:59) big was the house itself oh Speaker 2 (8:00) god tiny yeah Like it was like two up, two down. Speaker 1 (8:05) It Speaker 2 (8:05) was tiny. So there was never a moment to be, to yet to be by yourself. Speaker 2 (8:11) Like, I love being alone now. Like, I love going for dinner by myself. Like, I love going on holiday by myself. I love going to get a coffee by myself. I really enjoy my own space. And I don't feel lonely when I'm by myself. It feels like a treat. I think that's probably stemmed from how I grew up. Speaker 1 (8:33) That's so interesting, isn't it? Speaker 2 (8:34) Yeah. Well, it's obvious in many ways. And I think almost the interesting thing is to not realize the direct line between that and like how I feel about space now. Speaker 1 (8:46) I don't know if you agree with this, but I always think of the difference between introversion and extroversion. And we're obviously most of us a combination of the two. But it's how you get your energy. So introverts tend to derive their energy from alone time. Yeah. And extroverts derive it from the energy of others around them. Where would you place yourself on that spectrum then? Speaker 2 (9:10) God, I need to spend a bit more time in like self-analysis because most people, I'm thinking most people would be able to be like, and then they give you like the details of their star sign. And like, I can't do either of those things. I, when you say people are kind of typically a mixture of the two, I think definitely I'm a mixture of the two. Like I really enjoy the company and my friends and loved ones. I love meeting new people. I love learning about new people. Like, I probably much prefer to be where you're sat and doing this the other way. Like, I kind of... Just do it. I do do it. I suppose I'm Speaker 1 (9:47) a Speaker 2 (9:47) writer. I interview people for a living. But I enjoy that. But I think it's important for there to be rhythms of having a break, which I think is really difficult. to do in London because you're kind of working, or in my case anyway, you're kind of working the whole time. And the kind of industry that I work in, like socialising is quite a huge part of that. And so, yeah, it's hard. And then when I'm at home, I'm now a mother of two kids and I'm married. And when you're not working, you want to spend time with your family. So there's only really these kind of slivers of moments where you get to be. by yourself. Because when you are by yourself, often then you're working, like you're doing emails or you're like doing Zooms and then you're travelling. You know what, the most time I get to spend by myself is on a plane. going from A to B for work. Speaker 1 (10:44) Yeah, I love planes for that reason. Do you? I'm really productive on a plane. Which Speaker 2 (10:48) may be a Speaker 1 (10:50) bad thing. I like writing on a plane. Do Speaker 2 (10:51) you? Speaker 1 (10:52) Yeah. Speaker 2 (10:52) I like watching a terrible film. Speaker 1 (10:55) That as well. And then Speaker 2 (10:56) sobbing hysterically. Speaker 1 (10:58) Is Speaker 2 (10:58) that because Speaker 1 (10:59) of the food? Speaker 2 (11:02) This is so funny. I was having a massive rant about how terrible food is on planes. Well, I was having the rant because I was saying how exciting it is that Thomas Perry, is that his name? The owner of Brat? Speaker 1 (11:16) Yeah, Thomas Perry, yeah. Yeah, Speaker 2 (11:17) he has launched, him and a bunch of other chefs have just done a line of food for United Airlines. All Speaker 1 (11:24) right, Speaker 2 (11:25) oh really? And I was just thinking about how excited I am about that. But I've got no reason to ever fly United. So in my head I was like. What would that, how could I realign my life so that is an option? Because yeah, the food, come on. It's terrible. I tend to get, because New York's somewhere that I travel to quite a lot for work. And I have this ritual whenever I'm coming back. I go to Thai diner and buy like pad thai noodles and take them with me on the plane so I can eat them and not have to suffer whatever ridiculously badly designed meal the airlines created that day. Speaker 1 (12:01) I'm with you on that. So you're married to James. Yes. You have two boys. How old are your boys? They are seven and three years old. Seven and three, okay. So given what you said about personal space and having time to yourself. Speaker 2 (12:17) So I was like, I'm in personal space, I'm in the walls. Go on. Yeah, well, you Speaker 1 (12:22) know, you're in the engine room of life, let's say. Young children, a lot going on. Busy work schedule. Yeah. Out of interest, because I think we all struggle with this a bit in relationships, how do you negotiate that alone time with James and who's... Looking after the kids and stuff. And how do you make sure that that side that you clearly need, you need time to yourself. You said you like going on holiday on your own. Yeah. You like eating out on your own even. You know, that's really interesting. How do you deal with that side with him? Speaker 2 (12:52) He's been really aware of that being something that I need from when we met. And often, actually, he'll be like, I think he needs some time. He'll call it before I call it. Are you sure that's what his inner voice is saying? I need some time? Maybe. Is that some compilation of the two? So I think for both of us, a key way that we get, because I'm thinking actually another way that we get time to ourselves. is like exercise. So James runs. And so like, that's his moment to kind of do his thing. I've had a yoga practice for a really long time. And so then I'll go off and do yoga. So that's kind of a big part of the negotiation. We are quite good at rotating round who's out when. I suppose we're not one of those couples that does like everything together. Speaker 1 (13:47) Yeah. Speaker 2 (13:47) So. Speaker 2 (13:50) if like one of us is out on an evening, then like another great moment of alone time is like the kids go to bed as early as possible, depending on what's going on that day, but like seven, eight. And so then you've got the rest of the evening to like do your own thing. Like I'll often come home and James is like sat on the balcony, just like with a light on, just reading or something. Speaker 1 (14:12) So Speaker 2 (14:12) I think, yeah, we try and negotiate that time once the kids are in bed here. Speaker 2 (14:19) And we might just spend time in different rooms in the evening when we're both here. Like, there isn't, like, like, obviously we'll speak, but there'll be sometimes, like, James will be down here and I'll be upstairs, like, in the TV room. So there's kind of that as well. Speaker 1 (14:30) Okay. You mentioned space earlier on. Obviously space was at a premium by the sounds of it in the place you grew up in. Speaker 2 (14:38) Yeah. Speaker 1 (14:40) You wrote a piece for World of Interiors, didn't you? About our constant quest for a... bigger home for more space and you were sort of making the point that that's a bit of a futile quest maybe yeah Speaker 2 (14:54) and like within limits right so like I like I said as someone who grew up in really confined um environment I'm not like and there's real issues in London with people not having rooms but I'm not talking about kind of like overcrowding like there is that that is a problem is one that I like had experience of I'm not saying that But I think it's really interesting, and it'll be interesting what your response to this is as someone who's moved out of London. I know a lot of people who have wanted to move because they want more space, right? And they want, I get that, they want more space for their children to run around. They want more space for their stuff. But I was always... really keen to kind of remain, and it's just a personal choice, to remain in the, I suppose, the nexus of London. Because I think, yes, space is valuable, but so many other things are of equal value. Speaker 2 (15:55) Having access to culture, to me, is really valuable. Having, like, different types of community all in one space, which London has in excess, right, is really valuable to me. Being close to people I've had long connections with is really valuable to me. And so I think, just on balance, I think the idea of... space as the first and primary indicator of what a happy home is going to be is just not how I rank things. Yeah. Speaker 1 (16:37) I totally agree with that. So out of interest then, let's say that you were looking for a new home. I know you're not, but let's say you were moving on and you were coming up with a short list of criteria, like the main things that you needed. What would be at the top? Because if it's not, let's say it's not space, then that's not the number one thing. What do you think would be? Speaker 2 (16:57) Well, I was thinking about, in the way that we do, because I'm constantly looking for holes in my life, and I was thinking about what I miss. I used to live in Borough and the home Copperfield Street. And what I loved about living there was how many food places were close to me. And I didn't realise how integral that was to my life. And I don't have that here. So I feel like if I was to move, it'd be number one or two would be having places to source primary ingredients that I love really close by. like walking distance, like four minutes, maybe three minutes. So like that would be quite high. I'd say... Speaker 2 (17:44) always, always, always a tube. And I mean tube. I do not mean overground. I do not mean some random railway. I mean a tube. Because I lived in Crouch End when I was, for argument's sake, 27. I can't remember. It was many moons ago. I lived in Crouch End in my sister's flat. I can't remember where she'd moved to. I think she'd moved to Brussels. Anyway, I was living in her flat. Speaker 2 (18:13) And for, it wasn't for long, it was for six months. I barely went anywhere because there was no tube. I sat there, I ordered takeaway and I watched TV and I read. And don't get me wrong, there was much pleasure in that. But if I don't have a tube near me, there's just lots of things I won't do. Speaker 1 (18:31) Okay. Speaker 2 (18:32) Like suddenly it's like, that's just a hassle. No, thank you. No, thank you. And I just think I like the idea of life being about more yeses. And I think for me, a tube... facilitates that so that's definitely because there's so many areas i love which i couldn't move to because i don't have a tube yeah Speaker 1 (18:52) okay well that's a really good answer so i'm getting the sense that the the cultural stimulation of the city is what's most important to you Speaker 2 (19:00) absolutely yeah Speaker 1 (19:01) so the food thing then yeah i did write this down you know what did you say you said um meal times are almost spiritual did Speaker 2 (19:10) i say that yeah Speaker 1 (19:12) profound aren't i i thought it was quite profound i thought it was quite profound so because and that obviously comes from your childhood so what what were meal times like when you were young well Speaker 2 (19:21) it's funny again it's a thing that you look back on at the time when you're a kid you're just like oh whatever like just give me a chicken nugget and let me live yeah Speaker 1 (19:30) but Speaker 2 (19:31) like especially now like looking back Speaker 2 (19:35) My mum had no money and she's like feeding four children, right? And we ate like we were rich when I look back on it, right? It would be like lamb stews and like there's this thing that Ghanaians make called chichinga, which is like meat on a stick. And it's like the meat is marinated with like ginger and onion and chili. Speaker 2 (20:03) And she'd make the kind of, she'd make the chichengar on this stick and it was like delicious. My obsession with chicken absolutely started at my mum's table. And we'd have chicken with jollof, but there'd always be like salad and broccoli. And she didn't like the tap waters, and we'd always have Evian, which I'm now, Evian and Voss, I fluctuate between the two, but they're the only waters that I'll really drink if I'm going to go bottled. There was never, ever... ever a moment in that house where I felt like we didn't have enough food. There was always, if anything, too much food. And we'd all sit together and have dinner. I suppose it was the most abundant part of our lives. Which I hadn't again actually until this very moment. I didn't really thought about hmm. Speaker 1 (20:46) That's really nice. Yeah, if you think back to those Abundant meals then what's the emotion that you get from it? I Speaker 2 (20:53) think that's how my mom's passed away I Speaker 1 (20:55) think I'm feeling quite sad because I'm gonna cry. I'm not gonna