Sebastian Stan, Vol. IV

Happy Sad Confused

Sebastian Stan joins Josh for his fourth appearance on Happy Sad Confused to discuss his transformative new Palme d'Or-winning film Fjord and reflect on a

Key takeaways

• Sebastian Stan shaved his head for the first time for Fjord, a Romanian-English co-dir by Christian Mungiu that explores religious persecution and family dynamics
• Stan discusses how playing Donald Trump in The Apprentice and a disabled man in A Different Man shifted his career toward nuanced, challenging material over mainstream hero roles

Main topics

• Fjord and Christian Mungiu's filmmaking style
• Career risks and award recognition for The Apprentice/A Different Man

Notable quotes

"I'm running away from myself only to find my way back although 360 that's the important part yeah"

Conclusion

The episode serves as both a career retrospective and a forward-looking conversation about artistic

Transcript preview

Speaker 6 (0:00) There's a lot of conjecture about who you're playing. Right. Not all of it is right, clearly, because they're about the same. I Speaker 4 (0:04) mean, Speaker 6 (0:04) you know. Sorry? I'm Batman. Speaker 5 (0:08) That's the twist. It's Speaker 6 (0:10) got the voice. Who else? Speaker 5 (0:11) Obviously. I mean, where's Rob? Who Speaker 6 (0:13) else Speaker 5 (0:13) would I be? Speaker 7 (0:15) Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now. Speaker 6 (0:23) Hey guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today on the show, it's one of our favorites. Fourth time on the show, Sebastian Stan. Yes, the Winter Soldier's in the house, but we are talking about much more than Marvel today. We're talking about his new film, Fjord, a tease of the Batman Part 2, and much, much more. Thanks guys, as always, for checking out the podcast. Remember to hit that subscribe button. YouTube, Spotify, however you're doing it, I appreciate you guys. So thrilled, Sebastian. One of our favorites, probably one of your favorites, is on the show again. His new film is Fjord opposite Renata Reinsva. Fantastic film. This is the film that won the Palme d'Or, the ultimate prize at Cannes this past summer, and it is coming out in theaters now. It is, yes, definitely one of those films that is in the awards hunt, and justifiably so. This is a transformative performance for Sebastian. Bald head, glasses, like just kind of a schlubby guy. This is not the glamorous, you know, hero that we're used to seeing, but props to him for another. Bold performance coming off just two years ago with a different man playing Donald Trump in The Apprentice. He's absolutely killing it and he does it again in this film, Fjord. Check it out. This conversation, obviously, as it always does with Sebastian and on the podcast, goes to many different places. Yes, we tease the future of Bucky, of Winter Soldier in Doomsday and more. We talk about the Batman Part 2, which he is shooting right now. I can't wait for that one. Matt Reeves, deliver us another Batman film. It's Speaker 7 (1:49) going to be great and much more. He's in a great spot. He's a new dad. Speaker 6 (1:52) So thrilled he's on the podcast again. Remember, if you like what I do, support us over on our Patreon, patreon.com slash happy. Say I confused early access discount codes. You can ask questions of our guests. Today on the show, we actually asked a bunch of fan questions. So get in on that at the producer level and above. You can ask questions of our guests like we did for Sebastian Stan today. So without any further ado, here we go. Me and Sebastian Stan. Enjoy. Speaker 5 (2:46) I know I did the pictures with you. I know we did Speaker 6 (2:48) that. You've Speaker 5 (2:48) done the pictures. Speaker 6 (2:49) I have probably 100 plus embarrassing photos to blackmail you with. Speaker 5 (2:54) Yeah, well. Speaker 6 (2:56) Look, here's a good take. The fifth time on the podcast, you know you get a free hat. Really? Yeah. Oh, Speaker 5 (3:02) I love hats now, Speaker 6 (3:03) clearly. David Harbour's in the club. Hiddleston's in the club. Very nice. Claire Foy. Oh, okay, great. It's elite company. Speaker 5 (3:10) I'm down. I love hats. So Speaker 6 (3:12) let's get the most important topic out of the way. You mentioned it's a good time for hats for you. I mean, look at this visage. Look at this head of this bald head in front of me. Speaker 5 (3:21) Yeah. Is this Speaker 6 (3:21) the first this is the first time for Fjord that we've ever gotten to shave the head? Speaker 5 (3:27) Yes. Yes, because Destroyer, right? I kind of shaved the sides, but it was never really on the top. But yeah, Fjord was like the first real crew cut since I was four or something. Because my mom used to shave my head when I was little, thinking that it was going to grow and thicker. It doesn't work. Don't do that. Speaker 6 (3:48) Did you have any fear? This is your livelihood. What if it doesn't come back in the volume you want? Speaker 5 (3:54) I have more fear now, honestly, looking like myself in a movie than looking different. Clearly, Speaker 6 (4:01) looking at the last few movies, you're like, now you're obsessed with just transforming. Speaker 5 (4:05) But it wasn't, I know they all happened sort of simultaneously, one after the other, but it wasn't really. a plan and now it feels like at some point i have to go back just be you to to some version that looks like i i do and Speaker 6 (4:19) and i was kind of worried about that the other day you're running away from yourself to get you on the couch you're just trying to get far away i'm running away from myself only to find my way back although 360 that's the important part yeah We're so in arriving at the I was telling this film is fantastic. This is you Renata again Retaming Christian Manjoo. Do I have that pronunciation? Yeah. Okay. Yeah great filmmaker. Um, I mean there are many let's let's start with Fjord and then we'll talk about other things as we always do but um, I mean, Speaker 5 (4:48) there's Speaker 6 (4:48) a lot of reasons to be excited about this for you and the filmmaker the Romanian connection the Opportunity to transform. I mean Is this one of those that, I mean, was this born off of the experience on The Apprentice or had this been brewing for a while? Give me a sense of the origin story for this one. Speaker 5 (5:05) Well, it's a little bit of both because I, obviously, I've been looking for years to kind of come back home with Romania in a way and find the perfect sort of project. And I was obsessed watching a lot of filmmakers like Munju out of Romania. for years and approaching different ones and he and I had had conversations for several years about finding the right thing and then finally this was it because he said I think I'm going to do my first English language movie and it'll be your first Romanian movie and and so that the fit and the timing was right and Speaker 5 (5:44) a proposed to apprentice and a different man and sort of these characters I had played I I felt coming off of these bigger bigger-than-life characters I wanted to do something much more subtle and nuanced and restrained and and and his films Christian moon juice films are so documentary like as you as you know long takes long long takes they're all in one shot each scene is one shot no cuts and he really is obsessed, he used to be a journalist, so he's obsessed with trying to capture things to be as naturalistic and as real as in life. And so this was very, it was just a very different character than I had played. I thought it was an important subject matter. I'm 44 now, had a kid, but at the time already was. really thinking about kids. So I felt it was just all kind of moving in the right direction for me. Speaker 6 (6:37) So to contextualize this, you and Renata play a couple with five kids, I believe. You're Romanian. She's Norwegian. Norwegian, have just moved to Norway. And they are accused of abuse of their kids. Correct, yeah. There's a layer of religious persecution, perhaps. They're conservative. Yeah, Speaker 3 (6:58) I Speaker 6 (6:58) mean, I think that's Speaker 5 (7:00) what I... is interesting and i think munju does really well with his films is this ambiguity that's that's at the center of the movie because a lot of it is about interpretation is it religious persecution right are the are they actually at you know uh guilty of what they're being accused of um the movie doesn't give you the answer so easily and i think um a very telling thing is, as it's about self-awareness for the viewer, is about what comes up for you when you watch the movie. What are the things that you feel strongly about? There's a lot of knee-jerk reactions to the movie, which I think are very telling. And so it isn't an easy film, but I think it's a film that ultimately tries to explore this question of, in today's world, where we are so divided, how do we raise kids? What works? What is best for the children? Is it still these old traditional family values? Is it a different way of upbringing? Are we protecting families or are we tearing them apart? You know, there's a lot of heavy questions like that that I think are important. I Speaker 6 (8:10) mean, this is the second film in a couple of years that will be interpreted. in vastly different ways i mean the apprentice was appropriated kind of on both sides to a degree and now this one is already happening and it hasn't even hit theaters yet here in the states i think it's a very but one thing they have in common is the Speaker 5 (8:27) european mentality approach i mean both of those ali of course is from iran but he's european and he has a very cosmopolitan upbringing and so like um and in europe they're much more interested in nuance and in the Speaker 6 (8:42) complexity Speaker 6 (8:44) of life situations. And not telling you how to feel walking out of the Speaker 5 (8:48) theater. Yeah, and I think in America, and there's nothing wrong with it, I think it all has its place, we're much more in need of, give me the answer, give me the ending, how am I supposed to think, how am I supposed to feel? And none of these movies Speaker 6 (9:02) do that, because life doesn't always give you that. So, your new dad, I mean, there must be, I don't know if you've watched the movie since... becoming a dad has perspective on it changed already because it is so much about fatherhood and protecting your kids and what that means to be a man and a father. Yeah. Speaker 5 (9:18) No, 100%. I mean, that was sort of what I'm, why I'm proud of doing the movie and why I stand by it in a way is. Speaker 5 (9:28) Obviously, it's interesting looking back now, having had some time away from it and kind of coming at it objectively, because I'm asking myself, what are these things that I grew up with that I can... That I should pass on my kid and what are the things that I go up with that really didn't work that I don't want to pass on Yeah So much of what we pass on is generational. It's cultural. It's it's history It's upbringing and I think looking at this movie. It's it's really quite wild. I mean, I You know, I play a character that's very was raised very differently than me, you know, and and but these were traditional very traditional male Eastern European figures that I sort of saw in my own dad, my grandfather, and so on. So I think there's a real authentic piece to it, but I'm at it from the same point that I think and I hope any viewer would be, which is now to try to ask, what would you do in that situation? What would you do if you're being accused of that? of those things and your kids are being taken away from it. I think parents will have a very different experience with this movie. But I think, I do feel like the movie still makes a case for also showing why there is a reason why these allegations Speaker 6 (10:54) are Speaker 5 (10:55) happening. Speaker 6 (10:56) What was your, has your definition of what it is to be a good man changed, do you think, over the years? I mean, I don't know what your... Such a great question. Yeah, I mean, it Speaker 5 (11:07) has. I'm curious how you're feeling about that. I think for me, at the end of the day, what it boils down to is tolerance. Speaker 5 (11:16) And I said it earlier, which is I sometimes equate it to doing a plank for a really, really, really, really long time. But this... A degree of tolerance that I think is not so, I don't feel is so. Speaker 5 (11:36) Present anymore man or women or however you identify it. We don't have we've lost tolerance for somebody else that's different for for criticism right for You know just just just a difference of opinion it does feel like the value used Speaker 6 (11:54) to be placed on like like the idea of a man was someone that like set in their ways and they knew the right way and like Good bad and ugly they kind of like stuck to it And if you have the right morals and the right whatever, great. Well, it's just interesting to Speaker 5 (12:09) see what's happening in today's world because I feel like now masculinity, given the horrific examples we have and the authority figures that we're subjected to constantly that play out their own traumas on the rest of us constantly, is this victimized, entitled masculinity. Speaker 5 (12:33) this sort of beating of the chest and it's so loud and to me it's so indicative of the total opposite of masculinity it's actually very revealing I find of how insecure and small it actually is you know and that I do feel like masculinity is under attack it has been but it's also there's a magnifying glass right now where we're asking like really what is it what is a man today right um but we have to go back and look at the things that have worked and that didn't and i think there's romantic perceptions of it i mean you know you had you look at it in film right like the the heroic uh You know, I almost want to say John McClane was a pretty good man right in diehard, you know, he's human He was he had flaws. I mean laws but laws I I mean for me in movies that that's what I always loved and the lead characters were Flaws, I mean you want to talk like James Bond right now. It's a whole who's gonna be the next James Bond You're gonna follow Daniel Craig. I mean that was an amazing james bond because he had flaws yeah yeah because he was made Speaker 6 (13:48) metaphorically and literally with every punch yeah Speaker 5 (13:52)