Trends Impacting Local Government - Polarization, Workforce, Community Engagement, and AI

GovLove - A Podcast About Local Government

To celebrate the 10th anniversary of GovLove, host Ben Kittelsson presents a retrospective look at the major trends that have shaped local government over

Key takeaways

• Josh Edwards highlights how technology has fundamentally changed resident interaction and the difficulty of recruiting young professionals against private sector competition.
• Kathy Bailey notes that utilities have shifted from a reactive 'out of sight, out of mind' approach to proactive community engagement using open data platforms.

Main topics

• Local Government Trends
• Political Polarization

Notable quotes

It's an opportunity every day to show people what we are doing, why we're doing it, and that we're building something with them.

Conclusion

The episode serves as a powerful reminder of the importance of adaptab

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:14) Hey, y'all. Coming to you from Jacksonville, Florida, this is GovLove, a podcast about local government brought to you by engaging local government leaders. I'm Ben Kittleson, manager of RefTelus and GovLove co-host. It is ELGL Conference Week, so I hope everyone is having an amazing time in Indianapolis for folks that were able to make the trek. But for those that weren't able to go, we still want to bring you some sweet, sweet content. So we've got a great episode for you today. It's going to be something a little different. But I'm excited to kind of talk about some trends and look back a little bit on the last 10 years and what's impacted local government. But as a reminder, the best way to support GovLove is to become an ELGL member. ELGL, Engaging Local Government Leaders, is a national volunteer-run membership-based nonprofit with a mission to engage the brightest minds in local government. You can check us out and learn more about our $50 annual membership fee at elgl.org. Now let's get into today's episode. For the close listeners of the pod, they'll know this, but for those that aren't, way back in July of 2025, we marked 10 years since our first episode of GovLove. It is hard to believe, but we did start doing this podcast on a weekly basis way back in 2015. And to celebrate 10 years of doing the podcast, which is by far my favorite and maybe nerdiest hobby, definitely nerdiest. I took it upon myself to do a little retrospective project. So I wanted to look back on our guests over those 10 years and think about not only some of our favorite guests, but some of the folks that I learned maybe the most from in those conversations. And so I picked out 10 guests for 10 years and reached back out to them to schedule sort of a, you know, anniversary episode to talk with them again about. their work, but also asked them to reflect on the last 10 years in local government. I asked them to think about trends and challenges that have impacted the way that their organization or organizations they work with, how they do their work and provide service to communities. And I really enjoyed that, you know, that each of those conversations were great in their own way. And it was fun to reflect with those folks. But I really enjoyed that, like, kind of retrospective. segment that I did with each of them. And so for today's episode, I went back and pulled together their answers and thought through some of the trends that I heard about from each of those 10 guests and wanted to share them with you, the loyal GovLove listener, to kind of, you know, ask you to think a little bit about some of these trends and maybe how they've impacted your organization. So you won't be surprised to learn that there were some common themes across our guests. Obviously, COVID-19, the pandemic really came up a lot. And not only the response to and the impact of that event and figuring out how to work in that environment, but also some of the fallout, like remote work, how the relationship for communities has changed with their government. And COVID in some ways reflected that. Speaker 1 (3:19) The rising demands on government, I think, you know, that came out a little bit during COVID, but also has been just sort of a trend over these last 10 years. We also heard about AI from multiple people. And then also, you know, the increasing political challenges, polarization at the local level and that communities are facing, that really came up with multiple guests as well. Excited to kind of talk through some of those trends and share some clips from the 10 guests that we went back and chatted with. So I'm really excited about this. So the first clip I want to highlight is from one of our longtime friends of the pod, Josh Edwards. He also kicked off this series. He's the county manager in York County, South Carolina. Speaker 1 (3:59) He talked about technology changes and recruiting challenges, but I really liked what he had to say around engaging with the community and the changing expectations of government from the community. And so let's listen to his response about those 10-year trends. Speaker 2 (4:15) Yeah, government over the last 10 years, it's changed a lot. I think technology has obviously infused itself in government in new ways, which has really helped. Speaker 2 (4:29) engagement and interaction with residents and their interest in government or distrust of government continues to be a theme. So I think when you think about those two things, and then you marry with that the challenges government has in recruiting, I think those really are the dynamics we face. Speaker 2 (4:58) What was occurring early in my career when I got out, we were, I started in local government right before the great recession. So my first job, we were really involved in cutting budgets. And then the country came out of that great recession and, you know, there was, there was the opportunity to dream and do new things. Speaker 2 (5:21) And I think that the difference in the last 10 years is we've been in this place where we're constantly trying to improve, but what people's expectations are for government has changed. Speaker 1 (5:38) And Speaker 2 (5:39) I think you can use those same three things that have changed. Speaker 2 (5:46) There used to be an interest to sign up for government. There used to be a passion coming out of college where people were like, oh, hey, this is something I want to do. There's the opportunity for service. I could see myself in a career here. I think now, because there's so many different dynamics to careers and how people pursue their passions, it's much more challenging for local government to make a case for young professionals. I don't think we've been able to adjust to private sector competition where there's much more flexibility. But more than anything, there's an opportunity to see yourself moving quicker up an organization. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's a great point. And so I think we're going to have to continue. to struggle as local government to figure out ways to make the case to younger folks that they can spend a career in local government. They can do a variety of things. They don't have to stick to one department. We have 20 departments that do a lot of different things. And you can find a variety in one organization, but move around. We have to be able to reestablish who we are as government. and the why behind it and and i think that's easier said than done i've seen some organizations in local government working really hard to to reestablish this but i don't know if anybody's got got the answer yet in terms of the technology When I look back 10 years ago and where we're at now, our ability to analyze information and develop assessments, look for efficiencies, train employees on technology, change interactions with residents, roll out new ERP systems. There is an abundance of technology. Speaker 2 (7:56) government's got that opportunity to really make a great experience for customers and residents. Yeah. If we're willing to make that investment. So that's a big, big Speaker 1 (8:05) change in the last 10 years. Yeah. So there's a quote there that I really love about the work of local government. And I'm just going to repeat it back, even though you just heard it, but it's an opportunity every day to show people what we are doing, why we're doing it, and that we're building something with them. This is something we're building. we're doing together building community. I really love that as like a sort of a mission statement of like, when this gets hard, just remember that like, you know, the resident that's pushing back on you is also loves the community and wants to see what's best for it. And they just have a different perspective on, on that. And our job as, as practitioners is to work together with them to, to build community. So I love that, that clip and that quote from, from Josh. Speaker 1 (8:47) The next clip I want to highlight is from Kathy Bailey. She's currently assistant city manager in Cincinnati, Ohio. She spent a lot of her career in utilities and was the director of the utilities department in Cincinnati for many years. She identified some similar trends. And she noted that customers in particular have really changed how they are engaging with local government. And as a result, local governments and she really noted that utilities are changing how they engage with their customers and with the community. And so let's listen to what she had to say. Speaker 5 (9:17) Yeah, that's a great question. You know, if I think about, you know, the last 10 years I've been at the water utility as the executive director, and if I think about the changes that I've seen there, I'd say definitely. Probably the biggest one would be customer expectations. Like customers have truly changed what they expect. And not only have they changed their expectations, but they've changed how they want to engage with local government. You see a lot more people who, you know, call or show up or, you know, come out to community events, but they also come to. you know, city council meetings or city hall or your offices and really express, you know, their concerns or, you know, give you ideas, all of that. And so I think really customer expectations, you know, and how they engage has definitely changed in the last 10 years. I would say. you know, local government and then speaking from the water utility as a department and local government, we definitely have changed how we interact with customers. It's, you know, before it used to be out of sight, out of mind, and you really didn't want to talk to customers because the majority of the time when you talk to customers, they had a problem. They had a complaint, you know, they were fussing about something. And so. We definitely have flipped that script and we do. We talk to more customers. We actively go out into the community. We are the community, right? And so we go out and participate in different things that are happening. But at the same time, we take information out, you know, and share that proactively, which we didn't do that, you know, before. So I definitely have seen those things change. More technology, of course, that's everywhere, right? Where we have more technology at the utilities and in local government, but also using more technology and how we connect with our residents in the community. So, you know, open data platforms, opportunities for them to see, you know, smart reports and different things like that. Speaker 5 (11:39) I think those are significant changes that have definitely occurred in the last 10 years. Speaker 1 (11:44) Yeah. That customer service piece, you're right on. And a lot of places or a lot of the utilities that are doing great work are rising to meet that expectation of customers. To your point, they're going out and doing the communication that you didn't see 10, 15, 20 years ago and to the same degree. Speaker 1 (12:05) It is kind of inspiring to see that like, oh, here's all the things that your utility is doing for you that you may not even have known about as a customer if they weren't proactively communicating it. Speaker 1 (12:20) Yeah, the technology piece is interesting too. I don't know how you've seen, I'm sure, well, you're right, it's impacted everywhere, but it's pretty robust in the utility space. And I feel like the more I kind of dip my toe in utility work or working with utilities in my role as a consultant, the more I learn about some fancy new technology that utilities have been using for years and years. But are there things that stick out around like something that's like kind of maybe... been kind of transformative on that side for utilities? Speaker 5 (12:52) Yeah, we definitely, I mean, we've had technology for years, but boy, have we just really knocked it out the park, I think, in recent years of, you know, being very creative and innovative and trying to usher in more solutions that not only help us internally, but, you know, connect and share data externally. I can just remember, you know, many, many moons ago of the stacks of paper and all the handwritten processes and all that kind of stuff. But where we are now, it's unbelievable. And it needs to be there. We would not be able to attract younger members of our community to come work for us if we didn't have. you know, great technology, if we weren't willing to be innovative, if we weren't, you know, in many ways on that cutting edge with the use of technology at utilities and in the local government. Speaker 2 (13:57) And Speaker 5 (13:57) so it's important for us if we're going to attract, you know, younger members of our community to come work in local government, we need to rise to the occasion of what they're used to using. They've grown up on technology, you know, and so. We have to keep exploring opportunities to usher in more technology and better solutions in that way. Speaker 1 (14:20) Another guest also hit on this theme of the changing expectations around government and engaging with the community, engaging with residents. And he also connected to how it's related to politicization of local government. Mitchell Silver, who is now a city council member in Raleigh, North Carolina, he was also Before that, he was the parks commissioner in New York City and was also planning director in Raleigh before that. So he's got both this staff and elected perspective, which I think was really valuable and it was fun to kind of connect with him on that. But he noted that he thought really social media had changed civil discourse and in some ways has led to more of that political polarization at the local level and has that has filtered sort of down. So let's listen to his response to those trends. To Speaker 2 (15:05) me, the first that tops the list is. the influence of social media on not just local government and politics, but just civil discourse in general. Years ago, when we had kind of social media, it was on the periphery. Now is the new digital square. It's where people exchange conversations. But I think it has devolved where... both the media and social media focus on the extremes the extreme right the extreme left i believe most americans are in the middle and you really don't hear their voices and so responding to social media as elected officials we can't block anyone uh if we're a public figure we have to keep it open to anyone and you know a lot of the comments a lot of the I'll just say crowdsourcing that you hear is a challenge that we all have to face from the memes to the comments. So that has really changed the game. Petitions where people had to go from door to door. Now you can do that digitally. How people are now approaching public meetings to express their concern. So to me, social media has been a huge, huge game changer in how we do our work. how we communicate. And so to me, I think that's first and foremost. The second one is the disruption and the political polarization that we're feeling across the country. It is very difficult. particularly if you're a person that's in the middle in local government. Your goal is to make sure you protect the public interest, public health, safety, and welfare. But people have different perceptions about the role of government, and a lot of personal politics gets involved. And what may be a simple conversation is now becoming more politicized when It's just a simple vote to make sure you can take the city forward. And so to me, while it's always been there, it has now reached a level that's become quite a bit of a challenge. And so that has now entered into local government, and it's unfortunate. But the good thing is most elected leaders know that they're not just dealing with national politics, but they have to make sure the potholes are filled. Speaker 5 (17:46) The Speaker 2 (17:47) trash is picked up. They have adequate police and fire, public safety, that we build affordable housing. And so I think when people realize our job is to make sure we have a functioning local government, whether it's a city, a town, or a county, that we have a job to do. And the good news is that that noise tends to be at the margin, but it tends to be very loud and amplified because of social media. So I think the disruption is one that's very troubling. And now the last one is we talk in code. I don't like superficial conversations when people say, you know, I don't want basketball in my community. What do you really say? Well, I don't want this. I need to put a fence between my single family home and the condo. So we're talking in code. Speaker 1 (18:36) And very Speaker 2 (18:37) often what I try to do is decode what people are saying. And that has now become a challenge. Even the new term, you know, we'll get to it shortly. Diversity, equity, and inclusion, which has been an acronym to DBI, is also a code word. So I think that is a new reality. Dealing with that level of disruption and polarization in our politics makes the job Speaker 1 (19:02) a little bit harder, but not Speaker 2 (19:04) impossible to do. Speaker 1 (19:05) Yeah. Yeah. Well, all three of those trends are kind of interacting with and overlapping with each other too. And to your point about social media, I totally agree. And I think one of the things that I've noticed in my career, how social media has changed is that it used to be where you commented on what was happening in the news, in whatever institution you were a part of. It was like a commentary on the main conversation. at some point in the last 10 years, it's become the main conversation. And like, there is no like shared, I mean, depending on what, what bubble or algorithm you're in, sometimes there's not even shared facts and shared realities. And that makes it really hard. I would imagine to navigate as a, an elected official being like, I don't even know where some of these, like to your point, code words are coming from or what you're talking about. Like, how do I even understand like some of the, some of this, but. Yeah. I miss the face-to-face interaction. Speaker