Stop Asking "Why" - What an FBI Negotiator Teaches Parents Instead

Good Inside with Dr. Becky

In this episode of Good Inside, Dr. Becky sits down with Chris Voss, former FBI hostage negotiator and author of 'Never Split the Difference

Key takeaways

• Children's 'no' is not defiance but an expression of their developing sense of control and safety.
• Asking 'why' can make kids feel cornered; instead, using open-ended questions that invite reflection is more effective.

Main topics

• Parenting through negotiation
• The power of saying 'no' in child development

Notable quotes

"When people feel cornered, they do not become more reasonable, just because we lecture or scream."

Conclusion

By shifting from control-based parenting to empathetic negotiation, parents can

Transcript preview

Speaker 3 (0:00) All right, picture this. You've just cooked your kid dinner. It's nutritious. It smells amazing to you. And then your kid goes, oh, gross. Okay, we've all been there. I definitely have. And then you feel rejected by your kid. And on top of it, you're feeling anxious that your kid isn't getting enough nutrients. And when this inevitably sends you on a walk down the vitamin aisle, you end up thinking, all right, but will my kid even like any of these? Which one has what my kid actually needs? That's when you can turn to Smarty Pants Vitamins. Smarty Pants Kids Plus Multi and Omegas delivers 33 % more nutrients than the next leading product and includes omega-3s. That's part of why it's the number one best-selling kids gummy multivitamin. You can shop Smarty Pants Vitamins at Target, Walmart, or Amazon today. After my first baby was born, I treated my own recovery like a complete afterthought. If the baby needed something, I showed up immediately. If I needed something... Well, it would wait. But research shows that when parents have the support they need, they're better able to care for their children. Taking care of yourself isn't separate from parenting. It's a huge part of parenting. That's why I love Frida's mission to prepare women for the realities of pregnancy, postpartum, recovery, and feeding. Frida creates solutions for the moments that often catch moms off guard. The Postpartum Essentials Kit and Breastfeeding Survival Kit help women feel more prepared for those early weeks of motherhood. Be motherhood prepared and shop Frida at Amazon, Target, and Walmart today. You can't make me. I'm not going. No, no, no. I think these phrases are the most common things parents come to me about. What do I do when my kid says no, when they refuse, when they just cross their arms and look at me in a way I never would have looked at my parents? My kid's defiant. My kid's difficult. How do I get my kid to cooperate? Okay, I have the most amazing guest to talk about this exact topic. Chris Voss. Chris spent decades as an FBI hostage. negotiator, and his work is built around a truth that every parent eventually learns the hard way. When people feel cornered, they do not become more reasonable, just because we lecture or scream or give them an even more intense threat. Now, kids are not hostage takers. They're kids, and we'll be clear about that. End conflict? has patterns. Escalation has patterns. And staying steady under pressure is a skill that everyone can learn. So today we're going to talk about tools, mirroring, labeling, voice, better questions, actually wanting to hear the word no from the other person, and what to do in those five seconds after your kid refuses to do something they actually have to do. And we'll also be talking about how to use these tools in a way that protects what matters most, staying connected to your kid. I'm Dr. Becky, and this is Good Inside. All right, Chris, I want to start with the word no, because... Speaker 1 (3:13) No. Speaker 1 (3:17) Sorry, you threw me a softball. Speaker 3 (3:19) I did. I did. I walked right into that one. Well, it's one of the number one things I hear from parents as a, I don't know, kind of as a complaint, as a frustration. My kid always says no, no to bath, no to bedtime, no to soccer practice. And they love soccer. But you have a different perspective on no about whether it's a problem, whether you actually want to elicit a no. Speaker 3 (3:44) Tell me a little bit about that and then maybe we'll apply it to toddlers. Speaker 1 (3:47) Yeah. Well, an interesting thought also thing about applying it to toddlers and how they learn it. But, you know, the act of saying no. It makes us feel safe and protected. And empathy is about not what it is to you, but what is it to the other side. We can be in exactly the same conversation. You could be loving it. I could feel squashed. Speaker 2 (4:09) And Speaker 1 (4:09) you are loving it so much you don't even notice I feel squashed. It's one of the problems with sharing common ground. I start to tell something about my childhood, and you leap in and tell a story about your childhood, and you feel so strongly about it, you don't realize you just squashed me. You stole my story. But you're having such a great time sharing. You don't have any idea the other side feels stolen. So yes, both the words yes and no, and a lot of other words are exactly like that. We hate to hear no, but everybody loves to say it. Speaker 2 (4:41) Because Speaker 1 (4:41) every time you said no, you protected yourself from something. It's a Pavlovian response. Speaker 2 (4:48) I Speaker 1 (4:49) think principally triggered by... So many people in their younger, innocent days were bamboozled by yes. Like, I still have somewhere in my storage a coupon book I spent $25 for when I was 19. It was supposed to be worth $5,000, and I never figured out how to spend any of the coupons. I'm sure I get yes-ed into that. So everybody gets bamboozled by yes, so much so that it sounds harsh, but my comparison is a better child. Speaker 1 (5:21) So regardless of intent of yes, people are worried that they're going to get hooked. So everybody's worried about saying yes to anything Speaker 2 (5:30) because Speaker 1 (5:30) everybody's been conned with yes. So no is the same way. If yes is I'm being conned, no, I protected myself. No, okay. And in point of fact, if you get somebody to say no, anybody, they feel strong, safe, and protected, which interestingly enough, modeling for toddlers adults are modeling how to be in control and kids don't learn what you tell them they learn what they see you model Speaker 3 (6:02) so Speaker 1 (6:03) as an adult you're modeling control to them by saying no So that's how they learn it. Speaker 3 (6:09) So I'm thinking about the toddler saying no, because the first image I had when you were saying a no makes us feel protected, right? Is I say to my toddler or my eight-year-old, my 10-year-old, hey, you know, whatever we're doing, it's been fun. It's time to get ready for bed. No. I kind of picture, I don't know, I'm saying, hey, it's time to start the bedtime routine. And they're kind of saying, and they only say this through no, because they probably. aren't sophisticated enough, even like we aren't sometimes to say, hold on, I'm still having fun. I'd really rather not go to bed. I really would like to watch another episode. I want to keep playing clue, whatever we're doing. They just say no, but it is kind of like a boundary around them. Like this is me. I don't want to. And this is you. You want me to. Right. But then things escalate a lot, right? We, I don't know, we start yelling at our kids. How dare Speaker 1 (7:01) you? I'm in control. I'm the boss. I'm the dad. You're Speaker 3 (7:04) going to Speaker 1 (7:04) be so Speaker 3 (7:04) tired. You know, you never listen. What? As an expert in negotiations, like what have working with so many adult situations taught you about kind of what might actually be effective in that moment? Speaker 1 (7:18) Well, so, and my thoughts also on a parent, you're really trying to help your kids think. Yeah. So, you know, by giving them orders, are you helping them think? And then, of course, you're saying, well, to be an adult is to give orders. And you're not really appearing to be collaborative. Speaker 2 (7:38) Now, Speaker 1 (7:38) there's a limit to that with a toddler or at any age, a collaborative. Speaker 1 (7:45) You know, what we teach people on a regular basis is if you make what they want, what you want the path to what they want. Speaker 2 (7:56) So Speaker 1 (7:56) with a higher question, because how it makes people think. Like, how are you going to be able to do what you want to do tomorrow Speaker 3 (8:03) if Speaker 1 (8:04) you don't go to bed now? You know, you want to trigger thought patterns in your kids. You want to get them to think with you. Speaker 2 (8:11) Maybe Speaker 1 (8:11) it takes a little bit longer. You know, you're trying to get your kid to go to bed because you're tired. You're worn out. You're at the end of the day, you're a little gassed. You're suffering from massive decision fatigue. And then you got this task Speaker 2 (8:23) ahead, you know, put Speaker 1 (8:24) this lively, wild, protesting toddler to bed. And it's just horrifying to you and overwhelming because it's been a tough, long day. Speaker 2 (8:33) Yeah. Speaker 1 (8:34) So, you know, an adult, as a human, it's tough to be your best at the end of the day. Speaker 2 (8:39) Yeah. Speaker 1 (8:40) So the challenge is, you know, how did you walk into that in the first place? A little bit seeing it coming. Mm Speaker 2 (8:48) -hmm. Speaker 1 (8:48) This happens to me every night. Okay, well, at some point in time, is it predictable? Like, you know when nine o'clock is. It ain't surprising you. What kind of prep can you head it off? Or it's top man and adult. Busy day. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. Getting things done on time. And you got to put this squirmy, lively creature down for the night. I Speaker 3 (9:17) want to come back to something you said where, tell me if I got this right. You're saying, this is probably true adult to adult or adult to kid. I need to figure out how I can kind of create, how I can be on the same team as my kid against going to bed. We have to kind of align toward that goal. Is that right? Versus all of a sudden I'm in enemy territory where it's me against my kid. Speaker 1 (9:39) Yeah, yeah. Well, how are you going to grow to be big and strong if you don't get a good night's sleep? Speaker 3 (9:44) Now, Speaker 1 (9:44) I'm not saying you're going to get an automatically good response, but how and what questions are designed to get people to think? Speaker 3 (9:52) Whether Speaker 1 (9:53) you're an adult or a child. Speaker 3 (9:55) If Speaker 1 (9:55) I want you to think with me about getting something done, Speaker 3 (9:59) I'm Speaker 1 (10:00) going to say, how do we achieve this? that's as much to get you to think about it as it is to get an answer. Speaker 2 (10:07) And Speaker 1 (10:07) when we're teaching negotiation, you got to be careful with how and what as questions for adults because they're fatiguing to answer. They trigger what Danny Conlon called deep thinking. Speaker 3 (10:19) Yeah. Speaker 1 (10:19) You know, what's the biggest challenge you face? I can ask you that at 10 o'clock in the morning, you'd probably lay it out for me. Speaker 3 (10:26) What Speaker 1 (10:27) keeps you up at night, 10 o'clock in the morning, you're going to give me a good answer. Four o'clock in the afternoon. I say to you, what keeps you up at night? You'd be like, I don't know, leave me alone. Speaker 3 (10:35) But I think then I'm going to translate that for parents. We're also talking about timing. Timing matters, right? Yeah, Speaker 1 (10:41) good point. So Speaker 3 (10:42) many times for parents, parents will say, well, what do I do at nine o'clock when my kid's having a tantrum about not going to bed and I'm at my wits end? And I often say like, I don't know. There's not many good options at that Speaker 1 (10:51) point. Like your car is so close to a cliff. Speaker 3 (10:55) But if your kid is protesting bed. 19 nights in a row. It seems like Saturday morning when you're together in a calm moment, that might be a more opportune time to to collaborate around, you know, nighttime issues. Speaker 1 (11:10) Yeah, well, there's there's two things because. You know, they say when you're up to your rear end in alligators, it's not a good time to be reminded you should have joined the swamp in the first place. Speaker 2 (11:21) Exactly. Speaker 1 (11:22) So you're up to your rear end in alligators when a kid's throwing a tantrum. They're doing that because you conditioned them it's successful. Speaker 1 (11:32) You rewarded that bad behavior in the past by giving in. Speaker 3 (11:35) Maybe. Speaker 1 (11:36) Oh, no, without question. That's learned behavior. Speaker 3 (11:40) I mean, you think it's, I mean, kids have tantrums often because they're overwhelmed in a situation, right? I mean, parents can set boundaries all day long around things and still some kids are just overwhelmed and it comes out that way. Speaker 2 (11:54) What are Speaker 3 (11:55) some of the things you coach adults to do with other adults when they hear a no? They're trying to get to a yes, but they hear no. Like, what are some of the moves? Well, Speaker 1 (12:03) if I, you know, then trigger or no. Like, it's so automatic and it's so stupid. Speaker 2 (12:10) If Speaker 1 (12:10) I say to you, do you agree with this? You'd be like, eh. And but if I say, do you disagree? You'd be like, no, I don't disagree. But, you know, here are the issues, which is a quick, if you feel safe and protected, then immediately you're going to either give me implementation or issues and it's going to be genuine. And so what I really need on either one, because a yes or no is simply a decision. Speaker 3 (12:38) What's Speaker 1 (12:38) important is what comes after. And what comes after is a genuine discussion of implementation or obstacles. And so if I say, is this a bad idea? And you have obstacles. And then you say, no, it's not a bad idea, but here are the obstacles. Now, you've given that to me genuinely. If I say, does this look like a good idea? Ideally, you would say, well, yes, it's a good idea, but here are the obstacles. But since everybody has been conditioned that every time they say yes, the yes momentum, by definition, if you look it up, it says every yes is a micro agreement or a tie down, which means every time you say yes, you get tied down a little more. Maslow says in a hierarchy needs number one survival. And I contend and hostage negotiators in human history has borne out that the number one need is autonomy. And if you think survivalism is more important than autonomy, then I'll ask you to point out in the entire history of mankind's civilization, one society that was content in slavery. Every enslaved society has been willing to die to get out of slavery. And the United States is... founded on a concept, give me liberty or give me death. Now, we didn't invent that. We choose autonomy over survival. Speaker 2 (14:00) And Speaker 1 (14:01) so to say no is to give yourself autonomy, to protect your autonomy. Speaker 3 (14:05) You know, I'm thinking about, I think there are... These kids, I kind of call them like resilient rebels. That's like my subtype of these kids where they are deeply, deeply attached to their autonomy. And everyone is. But these kids especially, they appear strong willed. They appear defiant. But I think what happens when they feel done to or controlled is they go scorched earth, which is kind of a way of saying like they would choose autonomy. They're trying to not literally burn their house down, but they want to take it all down. When they don't have a say in their bedtime or what clothes they're wearing or their breakfast or whatever kind of micro moment represents, am I actually my own independent person? And I think they're so attuned to it. And those kids are especially challenging because they're so strong in those situations. So I hear what you're saying. I think there's a lot of truth to that. Speaker 1 (14:56) All right. Speaker 3 (14:57) So, okay. So another tool you talk about that I think is really interesting is mirroring. Right. And I'm going to play some things for you that I think so many of us as parents were conditioned to respond to with lecture. OK, Speaker 2 (15:10) which is definitely not mirroring. Speaker 3 (15:11) Right. So I'm not going to bed. Oh, you are going to bed. And if you don't get this much sleep, right. Or