Caroline Hirons Has Thoughts on Exosomes, Eye Cream, and Beauty’s Copycat Problem

Gloss Angeles

Skincare expert Caroline Hirons joins Gloss Angeles to dissect the science behind trending ingredients like exosomes, peptides, and PDRN. Th

Key takeaways

Caroline ranks peptides as highly proven (Grade A) while labeling exosomes as largely marketing hype (Grade C).
The Skin Rocks founder explains that US retail expansion requires significant capital for logistics and local presence.
Caroline argues that the fear surrounding talc lacks nuance, noting that 'the dose makes the poison.'
A discussion on eye creams reveals that topical application should focus on smile lines rather than just the orbital bone to prevent puffiness.
The 'eye patch scandal' involving Huda Beauty and Fenty Skin is attributed to retailer pressure or shared Korean manufacturing sources.

Main topics

Skincare ingredient efficacy
Beauty industry business models

Conclusion

An insightful look into the tension between scientific skincare truth

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:04) Hi Speaker 2 (0:06) Kirby. Hi Sarah. Welcome to Los Angeles. Speaker 3 (0:14) Caroline Hirons has spent decades telling us what our skin actually needs and calling out the beauty industry when it would rather sell us something else. Now she's the founder of Skin Rocks, which gives her an even closer look at how products get made and how trends take off. Today, she's joining us to talk about the ingredients she believes in, what it really costs to build a skincare brand, undisclosed partnerships, and her theory about why three major brands unveiled such similar eye patches at Speaker 2 (0:40) once. Caroline has thoughts. Many of them. Let's get into it. Speaker 3 (0:44) She literally needs no introduction. We're getting right into this. Caroline Hirons, welcome to Gloss Angeles. Thank Speaker 1 (0:50) you. That's the quickest introduction I've Speaker 3 (0:51) ever had in my life. We'll do Speaker 2 (0:53) your longer introduction on our own, but we need to milk every second we have with you. Yes, agreed, agreed. Speaker 3 (0:59) So Caroline, please tell us Speaker 2 (1:01) what's on Speaker 3 (1:02) that gorgeous face. And by the way, you see Caroline in real life. And you're like, wow, the fantasy is sticking. It's there. Smooth, glowy, tight. You see you and online. I'm Speaker 1 (1:15) so Speaker 3 (1:15) jet Speaker 1 (1:16) lagged, so thank you. Speaker 2 (1:18) Tell Speaker 1 (1:18) us your secrets. Okay, what's Speaker 2 (1:20) on Speaker 1 (1:20) my face? Well, skin rocks, obviously. Antioxidant gives you a great glow. Moisturizer, eye cream, blah, blah. Obviously, makeup. Westman Atelier. Truffle bronzer. Tool blush. I mean, there's a lot of Westman Atelier. Um, Veve. Yes. Uh, Veve, Skin Dew, uh, Pat McGrath, the glass skin spray thing. Oh God. I mean, there's Speaker 3 (1:43) a Speaker 1 (1:43) lot. I don't know how many was that? 10? Yeah. Speaker 3 (1:45) I mean, and also your hair looks fabulous, but this is a blowout. It's a blowout. Speaker 1 (1:48) But I, what's always on my hair is the shorts cough got to be the one that's like rock hard. Yes. So when I'm in, I always think it, find it entertaining when hairdressers go, are you okay with product? I'm like, babe, nuke it. That's my term. Nuke it. I want my hair to knock. Yes. Like I want it to be hard because hairdressers don't want to give you crusty, crispy hair. That's what I want. I want literally, I said, God, for me, I came out of dry bar, paid for it. No plug. Hashtag not an ad. And I said to the girls, I'll be back in 10 minutes. I've got to make my hair look less like Dolly Parton in the coffin. I'd said I'd like it curly. They did it justice, but I had to just, can we take a minute? Speaker 3 (2:27) Well, you know, we're filming this the day before. Dolly Parton day in Los Angeles. No. What's Speaker 1 (2:32) happening? I don't know, actually. Speaker 3 (2:35) Is this like a new holiday? I Speaker 2 (2:36) think it's a Speaker 3 (2:36) California thing. Speaker 1 (2:37) And Speaker 2 (2:37) we're here Speaker 1 (2:37) for it. Okay. And we're here for it. Great. Oh, fantastic. I know. Oh, perfect. Your hair will be ready. I say that with the utmost respect. God love Speaker 3 (2:43) Dolly. Listen, hey, I wrote a story that on her like dying days, the only person that was seeing her was her hair and makeup artist. She wouldn't let anyone Speaker 2 (2:49) else in. You know what? As it should be. She, a girl after our own heart. Caroline, what brings you? To our neck of the woods. What are you doing over Speaker 1 (2:58) here? Speaker 2 (2:58) We Speaker 1 (2:58) are Speaker 2 (2:58) visiting Speaker 1 (2:59) labs. So one of our labs is here. And so we've done a few days at the lab just doing new product for next year and the year after and innovation. And yeah, it's been great. So while brains are frazzled, but in a really good way, you know, when your brain is so full, you think I have to get somewhere and just deposit this like that. Speaker 2 (3:18) YLA for Speaker 1 (3:19) a lab. It was a recommendation actually from Kate Somerville, who's my girlfriend. So we have more than one lab, but this has turned out to be just a fantastic, fantastic lab for us. Speaker 3 (3:30) God, I love Kate. I love her. She doesn't love it. I've Speaker 1 (3:32) got Speaker 3 (3:32) a spa day with Kate tomorrow. Jealous. So jealous. We absolutely love it. The one on Melrose Place? Are you going? No. Where are we going? Oh, you have a secret. Westlake. Oh. Yes. The Four Seasons over there? Yes. Fab. Absolutely fab. Okay. So our U.S. listeners are eager to shop your brand. In store. What are your thoughts on U.S. retail? Speaker 1 (3:56) We would, I'll be completely frank, we'd probably have to do another round of investment to do the U.S. Okay. You're not small. Yes. And you need people on the ground. And the cash injection you need to make the product to match the P.O. and then to have the people to sell the P.O. to get it into the company and to get it out of the company takes a lot of capital, which we don't have. Right. We could get it. So it'll be another round. But that means it won't, it'll be like, we'll be working on the US next year. Whether or not we, I don't know how we'll do it. I have a plan that I can't speak about yet, but we would definitely, obviously we're coming to the US. It's my home planet. My mum's American. I still speak right in the present tense, God bless her. But you know, it's my second home. So it's going to happen. We just have to make sure we do it right. Cause you don't get many chances to do the USA. You know, you have to do it right. Right. I'm not going to come over and give you, I'm not going to, I'm not going to insult. my US-based clients with a half-assed attempt at launching. Speaker 3 (4:50) 100%. Okay. Speaking of like US versus the rest of the world, I'm curious, what are your thoughts on this talk conversation and how a lot of these brands are eradicating not only talk, but also sign to what is it? Cytopenthaloxane. Girl, you said it. It's the ingredient in a lot of our favorite foundations that have now since been reformulated. As a diehard Charlotte Tilbury airbrush flawless filter powder fan, I have, anytime I walk by a Sephora or Ulta, I buy a mini and a refill. I am scared because I know it's Speaker 1 (5:22) - Speaker 3 (5:22) But they're going to Speaker 1 (5:23) take the talc out. Speaker 3 (5:23) Yep. They're taking it out. So in your opinion, like having, you know, and obviously this is through the European Union and their new, you know, ban, or not new, Speaker 1 (5:32) but the ban on talc. Speaker 3 (5:34) Yeah. What are your thoughts Speaker 1 (5:35) on this? Speaker 3 (5:35) I know it's hard. I'm sorry. I'm not that Speaker 1 (5:37) bothered. Okay. I'm not bothered. You know, the lawsuits I think are frivolous. Speaker 1 (5:43) unless what I think is missing in a lot of this is nuance and context, because a lot of the testing they do on things like, let's say parabens, they're tested on at a level that you would never use it at, that you would never use it at. You know, you drink too much water, you die. It's all context and nuance. And, you know, the dose makes the poison. So I would happily, now having said that, I probably instinctively wouldn't use talc on my new grandson. But that's more because I never used talc on my own kids. You don't, it's quite an old fashioned thing to do a talc on a baby's bottom, you know, Speaker 2 (6:19) but Speaker 1 (6:19) talc and powder is kind of what you need. Right. So. I mean, makeup isn't my speciality. I know. But it wouldn't stop me using something if I had talc in it. I'd probably search it out. Speaker 3 (6:32) It's just we look to you for all things beauty, Caroline. I Speaker 1 (6:35) think a lot of it is panic created sometimes by marketing departments to divert people into a different direction so they can make a different sale. Right. I tell Sarah this all the time that I wish the U.S. would just give the middle finger to the Speaker 3 (6:49) rest of the world, even though not politically. You Speaker 1 (6:52) do. Speaker 2 (6:55) Let me correct myself here. Not politically in any other fashion except Speaker 3 (6:58) for in the beauty world. Like keep the talc. It's kind of like when we have to travel elsewhere to get really great sunscreens. Now we're obviously getting some Speaker 2 (7:05) more approved filters, right? Some, not all. But like. It's a good start. Yeah. Like there's tourism, Speaker 3 (7:12) beauty tourism to go buy these sunscreens and these products, right? Like why can't the U.S. be the one place that has the talc, you Speaker 1 (7:20) know? Yeah. I'm sure you'll still get it around the world somewhere. Yeah. I'm going to find it. Because I'm not going to live without it, Caroline. Speaker 3 (7:25) Okay. I just need you to know this. Speaker 1 (7:27) I'll Speaker 3 (7:27) call Speaker 1 (7:27) Charlotte for you. Speaker 3 (7:28) Oh, perfect. Get Charlotte on the Speaker 1 (7:30) line. Get her on the line. Fantastic. Kirby wants talent. Darlings. Darlings. Darlings. Speaker 3 (7:36) Darlings. We had to do it. Speaker 2 (7:37) Darlings. Okay. Speaking of needing more of your opinions, Caroline, we need you to rank these products A, B, or C based on which has convincing evidence in a topical product, which is promising. but you need more info and which has a better marketing department than data. Speaker 1 (7:53) Oh, okay. Sexy time. Yeah. My team are panicking. I'm like, yes. Okay. We Speaker 2 (8:00) have PDRN, exosomes, collagen and peptides. Speaker 1 (8:04) Okay. All. So peptides A, proven in everything. We'll use them like in my coffin. I want peptides on my face just in case I come back. Exosomes C, big fat C. PDRN B to C. So there's proof out of East Asia that it's smoothing, softening. But unless, let's be honest, unless you are going to inject salmon sperm under your eyes, you're not going to get the same effect in a cream. Yeah. You're just not. What else did you say? Oh, wait, collagen. Oh, Speaker 2 (8:33) sorry, collagen. Speaker 1 (8:34) Collagen. Speaker 2 (8:36) So Speaker 1 (8:36) collagen B to A that way, because you can add collagen to a skincare product and it can help the skin. But what I would never make a claim on is that it will, collagen doesn't stimulate collagen just because you put it in a skincare product. Speaker 3 (8:52) Right. Speaker 1 (8:53) Do you see what I mean? Yes. But exosomes, put it this way, I'm not making a product with exosomes in any hurry. Speaker 3 (8:59) Interesting. Can you explain to our listeners who are like, they're seeing exosomes, we're seeing exosomes everywhere. You will. 100%. So exosomes, I, as I interpret them are messengers, right? Speaker 1 (9:12) They're, Speaker 3 (9:12) they're, Speaker 1 (9:13) they're a delivery Speaker 2 (9:14) system. Speaker 3 (9:14) Okay. So then why are, I guess I just don't understand the hype. Speaker 1 (9:18) Neither do I. Okay. Speaker 3 (9:20) But Speaker 1 (9:20) that's what marketing teams do, right? Yeah. You know, it's that they are everywhere. And that's why as a brand, I won't follow trends. I follow the science. And that sometimes might make me late to the table, but that's okay. I'd rather be arrive at the table correctly than come riding in on a donkey and get it wrong. Speaker 2 (9:37) Yeah. Is there anything? There's Speaker 1 (9:39) a Speaker 2 (9:39) vision. Turn around on a donkey. I pictured it. Is there anything that we didn't mention that you're excited about or something that you have? Spicules are good. What is it? Speaker 1 (9:49) We like a spicule. Okay. Speaker 3 (9:51) Someone brought this up on our Slack channel. They said, ask you about spicules. I was not familiar with this. Yeah. Spicules are good. Speaker 1 (9:58) Yeah, spicules are good. I'm trying to think what else have we got? There's nothing really else, is there? Wait, what is a spicule? It looks like a needle. Okay. It's if you think about, you know, when you think about the, I mean, I first was aware of them with the eye patches where they almost have like, they feel like needles, but it's obviously silica gel and then it dissolves into the skin. But you can add them to formulas now and they help with penetration. Speaker 3 (10:18) Oh, it's like that MediCube product where it literally feels like microderm on your face, but it's a serum. Okay. Speaker 2 (10:25) Is there anything that we didn't mention that you dislike? You're like, people are talking too much about this. Speaker 1 (10:33) Exosomes. Speaker 2 (10:33) Exosomes, okay. Yeah, and I think you covered Speaker 1 (10:35) it. Yeah. Speaker 2 (10:36) I'm Speaker 1 (10:36) just not big on trends. You know, I like science and fact. Speaker 2 (10:39) Fair. You like peptides. Are people across... I love Speaker 1 (10:43) peptides. Sorry, Speaker 2 (10:44) you love peptides. But are people across the pond injecting themselves as much as they are here? Speaker 1 (10:49) No. No, yeah. Speaker 2 (10:51) What are you injecting? Here, it's like, they're not... It's like Speaker 3 (10:54) FDA Speaker 2 (10:55) approved. Speaker 3 (10:56) GHKCU, Speaker 2 (10:57) BK157. Of Speaker 1 (10:59) course Speaker 2 (10:59) you are. Speaker 1 (11:01) Makes sense, right? Of course you are. Of course you are. Speaker 2 (11:03) Unregulated. Yeah, unregulated. Of course you are. From Speaker 1 (11:05) the Speaker 2 (11:05) black market. Yep. Yeah, Speaker 1 (11:06) we Speaker 2 (11:06) don't do that in London. Speaker 1 (11:08) We're too afraid. Love to hear it. Speaker 3 (11:09) I ask, well, we ask because honestly, there's a Barbie peptide that makes you tan. Oh yeah, that one too. And I feel like that is kind of right up. Okay, we can Speaker 1 (11:20) go too far. Like people need to calm the fuck down. It just goes too far. Yeah. Do what you want to do. It's your body. My Speaker 3 (11:26) whole thing is like you won't vaccinate your children, but