251 - TRIVIUM | Matt Heafy: New Album, Ascendancy Riffs, Emperor & Mental Breakdown

Garza Podcast

Garza sits down with Trivium vocalist Matt Heafy to trace the band's nearly 30-year history and its evolution through various metal subgenre

Key takeaways

• Matt Heafy joined Trivium at age 12.5 and has been in the band for approximately 27 years.
• Heafy's father was a Marine stationed in Iwakuni, Japan, where Matt was born.

Main topics

• Trivium history and lineup changes
• Japanese heritage and culture

Notable quotes

I was 12 and a half when I joined.

Conclusion

A deep dive into the resilience of a long-standing metal band and the

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:10) I have hair envy. I'm trying to grow my hair back out. I thought I was going bald, so I started shaving it. And then Paula's like, you're not going bald, so I started growing it back. You got to grow it back. Yeah, oh, I am. I am, definitely. I'm trying. We'll see what happens. Speaker 2 (0:25) Yeah, but it's such a... Speaker 1 (0:27) Mine's super curly. Super curly. Speaker 2 (0:29) Yeah, but it's such a... It's such a pain, dude. Like, pretty much the majority of my day is just taking Speaker 1 (0:36) care of... Speaker 2 (0:36) It looks good, though, man. Both of you guys have good hair. Yeah, taking care of... You've Speaker 1 (0:41) got a good hairline too, man. I don't have a hairline like that. Jeans, Spanish jeans. Yeah, my hairline's always been far back. Japanese jeans. Okay, Speaker 2 (0:47) probably like, I bet like you tell Corey or like your band, hey, you know what? I'm going to grow out my hair. And they're like, yeah, Speaker 1 (0:53) right, dude. Well, Paulo was the one he's like, dude, you're not going bald. Grow it back. He's like, Paulo, I'm bald. I can't. He's like, you're not. Just try it. Paulo's bald, right? Yes, he's properly bald. Yeah. Nice. He brought up the... Did you see Larry David? Did you use the George Costanza thing when George Costanza would see someone using a wheelchair that wasn't actually handicapped? Or no, someone shaving their head when they're not actually bald. And George Costanza got super mad about it. Did you watch Seinfeld growing up? No. I know the show, but I haven't really. Yeah. Elaine had a boyfriend who was a swimmer, so he'd shave his head. And George was like, wait a second. He actually grow his hair? That's like someone being in a wheelchair for the fun of it. Speaker 2 (1:30) Oh, yeah. Speaker 1 (1:30) He was very offended. All right. We got Speaker 2 (1:32) to settle something right now. Yeah. After doing some research on you, are you sick of people mispronouncing your last name? I'm not. I'm not. So is it Matt Hefe? Hefe. Hefe. Hefe, yes. It's Irish. I've heard three different versions. Yeah, Hefe. People said Hefty. Healy. Because I grew up with Hefe, but then during interviews, people kept saying Hefe, and you would never correct them. Speaker 1 (1:59) I'm just Speaker 2 (2:01) like, okay, is it like a nickname thing? Speaker 1 (2:03) No, no. So it's properly pronounced Hay-fee. I believe Ellis Island, where my dad's family immigrated, it was O-Hay-fee, but H-A-E-F-Y, which looks more like Hay-fee. And then it got shifted to He-fee. He-ah-fee. It looks like He-ah-fee is what it looks like. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 2 (2:18) Well, Matt, it's great to see you. Speaker 1 (2:20) Yeah. Thanks so much for having me, man. Speaker 2 (2:21) Anytime. And you were born in Speaker 1 (2:23) Japan, correct? Yep. Iwakuni, Japan. Okay. And you were there for only one year. One year. Yeah. My dad's a Marine. So he was stationed in Iwakuni. My mom's from Hiroshima. Nice. So that's where they, I didn't fully hear the story of how they met. They'd never really told me, but all. Did Speaker 2 (2:36) they Speaker 1 (2:36) told you? Not really. My family, we don't really talk about like the past too much. Like my family, me, my kids and my wife, we do, but my family didn't as much. But what was interesting about it is that. Um, where my dad was stationed, the Marines were like, yeah, we don't encourage you marrying like the locals. And of course my mom is in from, from Hiroshima. So that's like a place that was bombed in the war. So it's like these two people who talk about the past. Yeah. Despite everything still found love. And then here, here sits this guy. Speaker 2 (3:06) What's up everybody real quick. Are you tired of these ads? I am too. If you join our Patreon, you get these episodes ad free. I'm talking to you. Press play and boom front to back heat. If you don't like waiting for Monday, you get early access to episodes and get to see the podcast before everyone else. I also do exclusive live streams where you can hang out with me every month and much more. Check it out at patreon.com slash Garza podcast. That's patreon.com slash Garza podcast or click the link in the description below. See you there. Trivium, a great band that's been through a lot. Speaker 1 (3:39) Yes, sir. A lot. A lot. It's been, it's crazy. It's been since 99. I've been in the band. I was 12 and a half when I joined. So I don't know how many years that is. 27 years now? Yeah. Speaker 2 (3:48) I didn't know that you and Trivium hit 99 until like, let's pass. Oh, he hit 99. So Trivium is technically a 90s band. Speaker 1 (3:57) Yeah, I guess so. Holy shit. Yeah, and I was just reminiscing. What an honor, dude. I Speaker 2 (4:01) had that Speaker 1 (4:01) obsolete flag. I had that exact same flag. I had the Slipknot shirt. I used to hide my headphones underneath my hair to listen to that first album when it came out. Yeah. Like under my long, poofy lines, man. I would sit there in eighth grade, seventh grade even, or maybe eighth and ninth, and listen to that self-titled Slipknot record. And I got to tell them that story, which was really, I love being able to tell my favorite bands. I love them. I know it makes a lot of them squeamish, but I feel like it's so important to tell them because I just want them to know. Speaker 2 (4:25) Yeah. I'm still trying to deal with like, how do, what is the appropriate way to approach them? Is it like, do you just get out of the way? Hey, I love your band. Okay. Now, now let's be friends. Or do you kind of keep it inside and act cool? Speaker 1 (4:38) You know, I Speaker 2 (4:39) still, I still don't Speaker 1 (4:40) know. I wish, I'm not sure the order, but like, you know, with Lexi Bodum, with Alexi from Bodum and like Rest in Power, like we toured with them in 06. It was Children of Bodum, Trivium, Amon Amarth opening. And this was in North America. Oh, my goodness. And, man, speaking of, like, crazy past, I remember that was the first time we ever played San Francisco. Because of stage space, they made a Monomarth drummer play on our drum kit. So the crowd was already bummed about that because, you know, we were a bunch of dudes with eyeliner and girls' pants playing for these incredible metal bands that I grew up listening to. Because basically before Trivium kind of started becoming public, I had super long hair, the giant XL cutoff camo white shorts. Of course. Giant. boots, combat boots, and like an XL like Cryptopsy shirt. But then right when we started getting, when I started getting metal core, I was like, oh, these guys wear tighter clothes. I'm going Speaker 2 (5:26) to Speaker 1 (5:26) do that. So basically we showed up like that. So our entire set in San Francisco, the first time we played there, we were being spit on and booed at, but we played the entire set. Cause again, it was Bodum, Trivium, Amon Amarth. Yeah. Spit on the entire set from the crowd. They're booing us the entire time we got through it anyway, but back to Bodum. I didn't tell Alexi till the end of the tour. Like, dude, I grew up worshiping your band. I have every single one of your records on vinyl. He had no idea. He was like, what? He's like, I didn't know this the whole tour. Why didn't you tell me this earlier? Yeah, and so I'm glad I told him that because now, unfortunately, that he's not a part of this world anymore. I'm so happy I was able to tell him. Same thing, like, we were just in, I flew in from Gothenburg yesterday. We got to go to In Flames' festival and I've been friends with those guys since 05. First time we toured together was OzFest 05. With them, we did a tour with them, two tours with them until I started telling them I was a fan of them. But I remember I would tell like Bjorn and they would always kind of cringe a little bit. I was like, cause they're so polite and so humble. Like, man, I wouldn't be here without you. But still 20 years later, I'm still telling them that. And now they're like, okay, it's fine. And Speaker 2 (6:23) I Speaker 1 (6:23) started telling them some trivia stuff. And the first time I heard in flames was on Napster. I was like 14 or 15. And then someone sent me Yotun. Speaker 2 (6:32) Evil Napster. Yeah, they sent me Napster, Speaker 1 (6:34) but that was my tape treating. That was how I discovered, because I was only into Metallica through Slayer at that point, the gateway metal bands. Someone sent me Yotun and I was like, I've never heard anything like this. So what I would do is I would download Full and Flames records on Napster, burn them on CD-R, but I would go to my local Barnes and Noble, special order the CD, which would be like 25 bucks because they had to get it from like New York or something. When that showed up, I would destroy the CD-R. and throw it away. And I told Anders that story in a co-interview. He's like, man, that's so cool. So I think it's important to tell people we love them, even if they're sometimes because they're so humble or they're so down to earth that it might be a little bit much, but I think it's important. I just don't know the order yet. Yeah. I'm 21 year friendship with those guys. I'm still telling them shit they didn't know. Speaker 2 (7:11) Yeah. How old are you now? I'm 40. 40? 40, yeah. We're the same age. That's awesome. Wow. Speaker 1 (7:17) Yeah. Speaker 2 (7:18) For some reason I thought, okay, he's probably early 40s, like 42, 43, 40. 40, yes. Speaker 1 (7:23) But my DEXA scan test, which I'm very happy about, says I'm biologically 27. Speaker 2 (7:28) Are you serious? Yeah, yeah. What's that test? Speaker 1 (7:30) So DEXA scan, it checks all your body fat, your bone density, your muscle mass and everything. Okay. Because I've just recently wanted to really get, I've always been into fitness, but I've really wanted to get into it lately. So I've had some friends who've had health stuff or people who've kind of, I've seen them gone down different roads with like different substances. you know, family sickness and stuff like that. So I'm like, I really want Speaker 2 (7:48) to Speaker 1 (7:48) invest in my future for my kids. Yeah. Speaker 2 (7:49) I Speaker 1 (7:50) want to make it where I'm like 60, 70, 80. I could still do jujitsu with my kids and still play with my kids. That was really the inspiration just to be able to like, that's a great goal. Pick up my kids and throw them around even when I'm older. Like I don't want to be a health, a health burden to them when I'm older. Speaker 2 (8:02) Yeah. I have the same goal. Like I want to be doing something when I'm 80. I want, I want, Speaker 1 (8:06) I Speaker 2 (8:06) want the brain to be, I want to be, if I have kids, I want to be able to still do. Speaker 1 (8:10) Absolutely. It's so important. And, and you know, every time I do like a cameo or I meet a fan who's like, Hey, can you give me some, inspiration or something like just eat right sleep right exercise right take care of your mind because you have to take care of the mind first or the body and then the body will follow totally has trivium i Speaker 2 (8:25) mean because your band has gotten through a lot of and uh and we and you were just mountains yeah mountains of it uh and you were so is are you intriguing at the point where now bands are coming up and tripping out meet Speaker 1 (8:41) Beating you. Speaker 2 (8:41) It's amazing. Is that Speaker 1 (8:43) at that point Speaker 2 (8:44) yet? It Speaker 1 (8:44) is the greatest song in the world. It kind of started around 2012 where finally bands started telling us they were fans. Because before that, yeah, it was just everything from, I remember we did. Wait, Speaker 2 (8:55) did they do it in private or were they saying it? publicly yet. Never publicly. And still to Speaker 1 (9:00) this day, it's not publicly. There'll be big bands that are like someone in a really big band. Like, Hey, you were the first band I saw. I Speaker 3 (9:05) was Speaker 1 (9:05) like, why haven't you said Speaker 3 (9:06) this live? Speaker 1 (9:06) And they never will say our name. Speaker 3 (9:08) Yeah. I Speaker 1 (9:09) don't know. I think it's, there's a certain, I don't know. I don't know. Maybe it's from, cause when I was 18, I started Speaker 2 (9:14) with the next Metallica. I don't know what it is. Cause maybe cause like deep in there's some conscious, like it's not, maybe to them, it's not cool to say. I love Trivium. Yeah, but Speaker 1 (9:23) why is that? Because they'll do it with other bands. They'll do it with other bands, like bigger bands than us, smaller bands. I don't know. Trivium always got the shaft. Curse. We always had a curse. And we were telling Rudy, our new drummer, about this. Like, dude, there's Speaker 2 (9:35) a Speaker 1 (9:35) Trivium curse. Like, we've always had little things that'll just happen. Dude, I remember when we did. The Trivium curse. Dude, the tour, incredible bills. 2006 or 2007, Lamb of God, Trivium Direct Support, Machine Head, Gojira opening, which is mind-blowing to think of Gojira first of four. Yeah. But I remember some of those shows we came off stage and there was like a group of people outside by our bus and the guy's like, nice show, James. I was like, what? He's like, James Hetfield. I was like, what? I was like, he's like, yeah, fuck you. It was like that kind of stuff. People would come up to us in person to do this or we'd have people. Yeah. Like I remember even, again, rest in power, Brent. Brent throwing a bottle of piss. at us on Ozzfest 05. He hit us with his own piss in 05. I Speaker 2 (10:17) thought that was just a legend. Speaker 1 (10:19) No, but again, years later, we made up and he sang me a song in our dressing room that he wrote on acoustic. Oh, Speaker 2 (10:25) that's cool. But we Speaker 1 (10:26) went through the fucking ringer, man. I remember we did a co-headliner with Slayer, the original lineup of Slayer. I'm talking Hanneman era Slayer. It was Trivium and Slayer, Macedon, Amon Amarth opening in the UK. And we went out in Manchester. Speaker 1 (10:39) Blew up in the UK at Ascendancy. Crusade came out. I think we're on our Shogun album. But even in the country that loved us at that point, being on a co-with Slayer in Manchester, I was like, how's everyone doing? And I hear like a 50 % boo and a 50 % yeah. I was like, everybody that loves us makes some noise. Half the crowd. Everybody that fucking hates us makes some noise. The other 50 % didn't. I was like, ha, I even got you to do something. By the end of Speaker 2 (11:00) the Speaker 1 (11:00) set, everyone's into it. Yeah, we went through the ringer, man. Torn with Maiden in 06, still at a time where you get bottled on stage. But now it's like everyone's cool with everything, which I think is great. I'm not saying I want people to have to go through that, but it was just a different path for us. Or even being bullied by our favorite bands, bullied by our favorite band's fans, that kind of stuff. Or getting yelled at by other bands when we'd be like, I'm not going to, maybe my memoir that I'm not going to write, I'll talk about it someday. But we're supporting one of our favorite bands. I remember I sound checked with their riff. And their guitar tech was like, why the fuck did you do that? And this is when guitar techs used to yell at the opening band. And this doesn't happen anymore at all. So yeah, it's again, I don't, I'm not saying these to wish this upon, like I wish the younger bands had to do this now, but it was just a different time. It was almost that 80s BS that we read about through old like Slayer Metallica quotes, but that was still residual in like the early 2000s. Speaker 2 (11:49) Do you think that probably influenced like the early trivium? Speaker 2 (11:54) Bravado, you think it kind of 100 % I don't I don't really think about that until I started talking like no one really put Themselves in your shoes you have a if you're coming up a bunch of people are talking shit on you like this Yeah, I'm gonna stand up. I mean it was Speaker 1 (12:08) tough. It was really hard I'm doing download o5 that's been like hailed as the the trippium show that changed our career and afterwards, you know I'm like 18 I'm going up some my favorite bands like oh man We've had this big set in these bands like they probably thought I was bragging but I wasn't I was just so excited. Yeah But what was really cool is we ran into, I retold this story because we just played with them in Europe. I got to meet Jacoby Shaddix for the first time from Papa Roach. I was like, hey, man, I've been a big fan of you for years. And he's like, you know, I know what you guys have been going through because he saw me talking about it. Or I don't know how he knew. Maybe I just brought it up. He's like, you know, F the haters. Don't listen to them. This stuff's always going to happen. You guys are great. Stick to your guns. And I saw him again this last festival run. I went up to him and was like, dude, I just want to thank you again for that. The thing you said to me in 05 still sticks with me today. I think with that. tough beginning um i mean definitely literally Speaker 2 (12:52) the only person that said anything positive about you and like your band is like rob flynn that's it yeah that's like literally he was like the only dude he's been the ultimate i love rob so much man the only guy Speaker 1 (13:02) dude rob has always been like since day one rob flynn sean glass rest in power sean love sean glass so much and i'd love to talk about him a little bit people don't know him everyone should look up sean glass one of the greatest human beings we've ever met uh but i met him around 04 he's been supporting our band since then he just passed away unfortunately um we're gonna do hopefully we're putting together a charity show or not a charity slash remembrance show we'll do in january for him but he was in broken hope he was in Soil. He's just one of the best dudes in the world. Repentance. Corey's best friend. But yeah, Sean Glass, Jose Mangan, Rob Flynn. They basically were supporting us from like 04, 05. But that was it. But then we did things like we did Ozzfest 05. I remember one of the last dates we had all these people come up like, hey, everybody, we're going to play an end of tour prank on Maiden. Let's go egg them. We're like, what? Like, yeah, we're all going to egg maiden. It's been put on. It's going to be great. We should go do that. I was like, we are not doing that. And then it became that giant drama that you saw. We refused to do it. And Speaker 2 (13:54) I Speaker 1 (13:55) was Speaker 2 (13:55) there. Speaker 1 (13:56) Yeah. People were. Yeah. And the next show for the rest of us fest, we all were maiden shirts. We got a bunch of maiden flags from like a local hot topic, drape them over our cabs and play the trooper. every day and after we did that then all of a sudden we had like staff people that were bullying us i remember this guy he'd like drive his golf cart try to like cut us off shoot sand at us he Speaker 2 (14:15) went against against the festival yes yeah Speaker 1 (14:18) because we're like we're not going to do this to our favorite band yeah but that got us the iron maiden tour oh yeah they brought us out for six weeks in europe oh they treat us like kings and still to this day um we had a day off in spain and i booked this awesome restaurant at research we're sitting there and then i'm like oh, that's Bruce coming in. Bruce comes in. Hey guys, big hugs. And so we're still pals with them. So the guys that know, they know. But as the years have gone on, so I was saying like around 2012 to go all the way back in circle. Yes, around that point, people started telling us like, hey, I love your band. But then a couple of bands have been like Austin Dickinson. He's been like a little brother to me. He's always talked about how Trivium was like one of his first favorite bands. Three from Sleep Token. Hasn't said it publicly, but he said that, you know, Ascendancy was the first album he ever got in metal. He played with Zip Bloodstock. So just the real ones are starting to come around. Ishan, he respects us and loves us. Naragal, like we've got the right dudes, but I think- I mean, you're in a band with him. Yeah, Speaker 2 (15:12) yeah, exactly. Yeah. That's cool. You named a band after a, it's a- A yoga pose, correct? A Speaker 1 (15:20) corpse pose? Yeah. So originally I was going to call the album Ritu, which is from Ashtanga Yoga and it's about life and death and the whole idea like visually if you picture the Ouroboros. And I was going to call the lead single Shavasana of Corpse Pose. And I was talking to Ishan. This was, shoot, the Ibaraki record I worked on for a decade before it came out. And I was talking to him. I was like, I wish I could write about Jormungandir and all the great Viking mythologies and stuff. He's like, Matt. That's been done. You write about your Japanese culture. And I was like, wow, I can do the same thing that Thierfing and Amon Amarth can do about... When was this Speaker 2 (15:55) again? Speaker 1 (15:55) I'm sorry. This might have been... I can't recall when this record came out. Ibaraki, I-B-A-R-A-K-I. Thank you. Man, this is great. Yeah, of course. Let's see. When did Ibaraki come out? It came out in 2022. So for the decade leading up, I was writing this record. I've always loved black metal. But this record ended up becoming... I don't want to call it post-black metal because it's not like shoegaze stuff, but it just became its own thing. But Ishan was the producer, co-writer on this record, and Gerard Way guested on one of the singles as well, which is super cool. He did like black metal vocals on it. Now he's on the new Frozen Soul, which is sick. But that record is actually chronologically in order of the first track I wrote 10 years before the record came out. The last one was like a month before it came out. So it was like a time capsule. but I got to have Naragal on it with me. Yeah, it was a decade of writing that record. So it's just taken its time, but he inspired me to go into my Japanese culture. So every single thing is about a different Japanese story. Like Susanoo no Mikoto is about the story that's my back piece. It's about the thunder god of Japan, or the storm god, excuse me, Susanoo. He was cast down from the heavens to live on earth and one day he meets this this sad fisherman and the fisherman says There's this snake That this eight-headed serpent of the sea who's been eating all my daughters have one daughter left I don't want to do and he's like, can you please help me? He's like I'll help you if you marry her off to me so that the gods are always these kind of flawed things just like a Greek mythology Okay, and so he goes off and he makes these eight giant tubs of sake and feeds each head so they keep getting drunk. And then he cuts the eight-headed serpent open. There it is right there. And then he gets this legendary sword. So it's songs like that. I was like, oh, I could finally do the idea of what Viking metal would do, but do it for my own culture, my Japanese culture. So it was really fun to do that. So that's what that record was. And Ishan was the main advisor behind it. He did all the Japanese instruments, like programmed them on there. Oh, wow. Yeah, it's really cool. And to have Gerard do black metal vocals for the first time ever. Ever was cool. I had all of Ishan's families on that song with Gerard. Yeah, it's really cool. Nergal did all the vocals on Akumu, but actually in Polish. I was like, hey, Nergal, can you sing this in Polish? Because it'll sound really demonic. And he did. It's fucking awesome. But that record, it's one, it was more for the self. It wasn't one that like we overly promoted or overly publicized, but that's samurai suit that I have. I did the videos in a samurai suit. It's really cool. It was just this project I felt like I had to do to get in touch. myself because I've always felt I wasn't Asian. I wasn't Japanese enough for the Asian kids in middle school and high school because I'm half. I wasn't white enough for the white kids. So it's always stuck between these two places. But it's the same thing as Trivium. We've never been metal enough for the metal kids and never been hardcore enough for the hardcore kids because we kind of this metal core thing going on in our blood and we were never enough for either. So this was a way I could get in touch with myself. And this was around. I remember I started writing these lyrics around COVID times where there was a lot of anti-Asian sentiment. People were very racist against all Asians because, yeah, it's crazy. I don't mean to bring that stuff up, that time period up, but I just was reminded of that when I saw this. So it was a lot of getting in touch with myself and kind of learning more about myself and wanting to be like, okay, this is just who I am. I'm 50-50 or I'm half-half. It was a therapeutic process or cathartic to get this record done. Speaker 2 (19:09) With this record, did you bring in... Into Trivium? I should lean into my Japanese culture. Speaker 1 (19:15) Luckily, we have a little bit over the years. The Crusader 06, we have a song called Becoming the Dragon, which is the story of the Japanese dragon. It starts as a koi fish that has to swim up this waterfall. And once the koi fish gets to the top, called Dragon's Gate, it comes down and becomes a dragon. So we Speaker 3 (19:28) have Speaker 1 (19:28) that song, Becoming the Dragon. Our fourth record, Shogun, which is one that we've got a lot of... Our fans would always say between Ascendancy, In Waves, and Shogun, and now Sin. It's like four different classes of Tribune fans. They each one says, no, Shogun's the best. Not in Waves. No, in Waves is the best. They kind of are conflicted over that. But that record dealt heavily with Japanese mythology. Kiristigomen. I remember I learned that phrase. It's what samurai would say. If you pissed a samurai off legally, they can cut your head off. Kiristigomen means sorry, but I have to take your head. So they just, Kiristigomen, cut your head off and they're legally protected. So that's what that was about. Shogun is a song that I wrote like a story of this like, this warrior. But we also delved a lot into Greek mythology on that. Scylla and Charybdis, Huespa and the Furies is about Kronos, Prometheus and the Crucifix being about Prometheus. So when the Odyssey was about to come, I was like, fuck, I wish we could get these songs in that movie. Impossible, impossible to make that happen. But we played in Greece for the first time in 21 years, and I talked about, hey, we've written so many songs about your culture and your country and your mythology. That was cool. Yeah. Speaker 2 (20:29) How did you guys come up with... Speaker 2 (20:35) Down from the sky. I was because that is like a big ring out and then like just Yeah, Speaker 1 (20:40) thank you. Thank you a Speaker 2 (20:41) big rip. How did how did that song start? That Speaker 1 (20:43) was a so every song before Say before the last couple Speaker 2 (20:49) Yeah Speaker 1 (20:50) Yeah, we'd have a either be Corey Paulo or myself would come up with the riffs and Paulo actually came with the majority of the rest for that song And we brought it to us like this is a game-changer. This is really cool lyrically. I wrote it about Speaker 1 (21:05) kind of dictatorship over any country, any place, a bad power that can have corruption over people and lead people astray. That's a topic I'd like to delve into a lot, but that's what the old war footage was. Speaker 1 (21:21) Yeah, about a lethal grip of a bad leader who can threaten by weapons over people. That can be applied anywhere. I like the application of where lyrically it could be something specific and exact to me, but someone who listens to it can put that to maybe their own country or their own life or their own household or their own job or their own boss. I think that's so important. But Down from the Sky, yeah, I'm trying to think of who wrote which person. Did Speaker 2 (21:43) you guys get in a room like, let's just do a ring out. I think Paulo fully Speaker 1 (21:48) came up with that intro back when we'd write music and show each other beforehand, which I know is the main way. But the last several records, especially the newest one, we wrote it only when the four of us are together at our headquarters in the hangar. That was the rule. We can only write together. No demos back and forth. No MIDI set up. Nothing's written beforehand to send to each other. If you have a riff, I don't want to hear it until you show up in the room. So we always wrote as a hive mind, the four of us together in the place that we built by hand. How Speaker 2 (22:13) did it? How did it feel when like, I mean, I assume like, okay, this fucking do a count and ring out and like, and then you're, and then you're playing that or you, you are Corey. Speaker 1 (22:22) How do you play Speaker 2 (22:23) that riff? Speaker 1 (22:25) Corey plays it live. It's ready to go. Oh, please. Yeah. Oh Speaker 2 (22:29) man. Speaker 1 (22:30) I might, I might butcher it. Speaker 2 (22:31) Yeah, please. It's my, it's my, my favorite part. Speaker 1 (22:35) My part. I think. Speaker 1 (22:44) Corey plays it live so I haven't played this since I might have come up with the part, but I haven't played it since okay Speaker 3 (22:49) Shit Speaker 2 (22:52) there Speaker 1 (23:05) it is. But yeah, Corey plays a lot. That's why I forgot it, but I think I came up with it hand to Corey Yeah, Speaker 3 (23:16) that that's it. Speaker 1 (23:16) That's it. Huh? Yeah, I think Paula came with the verse And then I think Paula came with this part Speaker 1 (23:52) I think I came with the middle. Speaker 3 (23:54) Apollo came with Speaker 1 (24:04) the elephant riff. Elephant Speaker 3 (24:06) riff? Elephant riff. Speaker 1 (24:12) That is elephant riff. But anytime you hear a cool bend like that, that's Apollo riff. So like in waves. Oops, sorry. When there's a bend like that, you kind of know it's Apollo riff. If you hear something that's kind of Swedish or something that's kind of galloped, it's usually me. If there's a shitload of down picking, it's usually Corey. Speaker 1 (24:39) Okay Speaker 2 (24:48) that kind of stuff. I'm going to sit a little forward. There we go. Do you remember recording that record? What did you use guitar-wise, amp-wise? That one we recorded with Nick Raskolinix. Yeah. Awesome producer. I Speaker 1 (25:00) remember Speaker 2 (25:00) when I saw that, I was jealous. Speaker 1 (25:02) Yeah. Speaker 2 (25:02) They went to Nick. Amazing, amazing producer. Yeah, exactly. There's always some Speaker 1 (25:08) reason to say fuck Trivium. I should just make a shirt that just says fuck Trivium. That might sell, dude. Actually, that reminds me of another fun story. Then we'll jump back to Shogun. Oh, please. Speaker 3 (25:17) What year was it? Speaker 1 (25:18) There was a year where we had this band out and I had this crummy tour manager. As bands have had, sometimes you don't know when your crew guy sucks. Of course. Especially when you're young and you finally have a budget to have a tour manager. Yeah. The opening band was there and about to grab some food and the tour manager went up and said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. nobody eats till Matt Heafy eats. The Speaker 2 (25:38) rumor, yeah. Yes, yes. That spread Speaker 1 (25:40) absolutely everywhere in the world. So when people are kind of like, I think these guys might be dicks because they're calling themselves Metallica, then you hear nobody eats till Matt Heafy eats. So it all makes sense. Meanwhile, I've always been kind of just the nice goofy guy that I am today who just likes video games and anime. But that spread everywhere. So for years I kept hearing that I was like man sucks and then years later When people start realizing okay, maybe these guys aren't so bad Like I think it's because we had a couple lineups and they're like, alright Maybe I had a bad experience one of the guys in Speaker 3 (26:07) the Speaker 1 (26:07) band. Maybe they're all like this. Mm-hmm By then we got our lineup cleared up at the time I decided to make a t-shirt out of it. So I made a t-shirt, Nobody Eats Till Matt Heafy Eats, on my Twitch store, and it did very, very well. Oh, it did. Okay, cool. It did very well. But yeah, so back to Shogun. So we decided to record with Nick Rasklinik, so it was really cool. At that point, our first album, our demo was done by Jason Sukoff, Ascendancy Jason Sukoff, Crusade Jason Sukoff. Shogun, we wanted to work with someone different, someone we're a big fan of, and we loved his Foo Fighters work, loved his Rush work. Of course. What's great about him is he came up and he's like, all right, you guys ready to do this? Let's hear you play. And he's like, you guys aren't ready. I'm going to come back again. You guys rehearse and write a little more. This isn't there yet, which was really cool. We've never had anybody tell us to do that before. So he left and we worked hard again. He came back. He's like, now you guys are ready. So we recorded in a real studio, which is the first time. Jason has a real studio, but the time that was like his home converted room. We went to a place called the Sound Kitchen. While we were there, Miley Cyrus was recording. Leonard Skinner was recording. Kenny Chesney, Trace Adkins. We're the first metal band that Speaker 2 (27:07) had Speaker 1 (27:07) ever been there. There was catering. There was catering at the studio. Super expensive to be at the studio. We're like, hey, let's do this. this because we haven't really been in a studio like that since um made the record there took a while what was that tone nick had this i think he split he took our guitar split it in like three different heads through each one had its own pedal there's an overdrive pedal each one was its own head each one was its own cab and then multiple mics so that was the tone on that record well Speaker 2 (27:30) what were the heads Speaker 1 (27:31) it's typically always been some form of 5150 i took notes because cory had cory just remembers every head we've ever used for every record yeah it's always been some form of whether a 5150 1, 2, block letter, 05, 05 +, 34, 5153. It's basically every school of which we've had. That record, darn was it. Let's see if it's in there. Yeah. All the tape was to keep the stuff clean. Dude, do you still have that Dean? I don't. No! Because there was a point where, and actually I haven't talked about this too much in a while. stretching strings let's go over this morning i had to sell a lot of my guitars to pay rent at a point oh yeah yeah that Speaker 2 (28:13) was like oh six oh seven so like bands it really does go all up and down even at Speaker 1 (28:17) shogun you're still at that point where we're still trying to build this thing oh Speaker 3 (28:21) yeah and Speaker 1 (28:21) we've had to rebuild multiple times and there have been multiple times where it's like all right this thing's almost done this thing's almost done like recently that almost happened again but now like the course is corrected Being in a band is tough. You know that. It is tough. I know that. So yeah, at that point, I had to sell some guitars. Luckily, I didn't have to sell too many of my Gibson or anything. Oh yeah, there's Nick. There's Nick's gold top. I loved that guitar so much. Damn, I haven't seen this in a long time. My record was super fun. That was the first time that we really layered the hell out of everything as Nick had so many cool ideas of Overdub guitars that only happen on one part. That's something we're used to because we're used to always quad tracking everything So be two identical parts and left to identical parts on the right Of course the harmonies you've built into everything leads and melodies kind of split in the middle But this one he would be like, okay. No, let's have an extra chug happen here or an extra vocal thing happened here Look at young Corey Corey looks the exact same Corey has always looked the exact same I have had every look in Speaker 2 (29:14) the Speaker 1 (29:15) world. Like this is Speaker 2 (29:15) when I had my Speaker 1 (29:16) dorky Roy Orbison glasses with the long poofy hair. Shogun was awesome, man. Because Ascendancy came out in North America. Nothing really happened. Like people still weren't really into it. It didn't really click. But in the UK, it all clicked for some reason. I remember we showed up to the UK. We were used to it. I think we... We actually just left a tour All the bands we won't get along with them on this run So we're like you don't fuck the last show so actually didn't show up to the last show which is kind of crazy that we did that and then we flew to the UK and the press person from the UK Kirsten who are still with to this day still does all the press she said she flew to Seattle for that show because I remember I was underage so was there like yeah once you don't your set you can't be in this venue and We're fucking heads with the other bands like you know what fuck this so we so we left Didn't even play And she's like, man, these guys are going to be dicks. What's going to happen? We flew over and she's like, oh, they're actually lovely. But the first show, we didn't expect anyone to know who we were because we're used to just no one were fans of the band yet. And we're backstage and we hear this noise. What the hell is that? Because we're first to three for that run. The whole crowd was chanting Trivium. Like, there's no way. Went out there. They knew every single word to every single song. Nowhere else in the world did anyone know anything of ours. We were supposed to play like the fifth stage at Download on, I think this might have been the end of this run. And we got a call like, no, we're bumping up to the main stage opening slot. We did that 11 a.m. slot. 40,000 people came running up the hill right at 11 a.m., knew every single word. And that really changed our lives in the U.K. But nowhere else did it really click yet. So then for some reason, maybe because I was like a rebellious teenager, I said for this next record, let's do the exact opposite. Every single thing that happened to Senancy, let's do the opposite and prove to everyone that said that we're not metal, that we are metal. You know what? I was jamming that