‘Wonder Man’ star Yahya Abdul-Mateen II on cancellation and confidence

Fresh Air - NPR

In this episode of Fresh Air, actor Yahya Abdul-Mateen II discusses his experience starring in Marvel's 'Wonder Man,' the show's unexpected

Key takeaways

• Abdul-Mateen II views 'Wonder Man' as a 'dollar well spent,' despite its cancellation, due to the meaningful experience and connection with audiences.
• He emphasizes that deep preparation enables authentic improvisation and emotional truth in performance.

Main topics

• The cancellation of 'Wonder Man' after an Emmy nomination
• Challenges facing Black-led projects in Hollywood

Notable quotes

"I got to make a fantastic show and I got to play a fantastic character who many people related to."

"You have to prepare in order to let all that go. So I do the homework, and then I'm not afraid to let go of the homework."

Conclusion

Abdul-Mateen II reflects with gratitude and resilience on his time in 'Wonder Man,'

Transcript preview

Speaker 3 (0:00) This week on the NPR Politics Podcast, the Trump administration is taking credit for a major drop in violent crime, murder, robbery, assault, all down in big cities and small towns. We're going to dig into the numbers and unpack whether this is really as simple as the president claims it is on the NPR Politics Podcast. Listen on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts. Speaker 8 (0:23) This is Fresh Air. I'm Tanya Moseley, and my guest today is Yahya Abdul-Mateen II. He's nominated for an Emmy for the Marvel series Wonder Man. He plays Simon Williams, a struggling actor with a secret. He has real superpowers, and if anyone finds out, he doesn't just lose his career, he loses his freedom. Abdul-Mateen grew up in both New Orleans and Oakland, studied architecture at UC Berkeley, and worked as a city planner until a layoff sent him to the Yale School of Drama. He booked his first major role in 2015, nearing 30, and since then he's performed on Broadway in Top Dog, Underdog, been cast as Black Manta in Aquaman, Bobby Seale in The Trial of the Chicago 7, the lead in Candyman, and won an Emmy for playing Dr. Manhattan. and HBO's Watchmen. Wonder Man made him the lead in his very own Marvel series. And then, two weeks after his Emmy nomination, Disney canceled the show a few months after a second season had already been announced. And Yahya Abdul-Mateen II, welcome to Speaker 5 (1:29) Fresh Air. Speaker 7 (1:34) What's up? What's up? What's up? Speaker 2 (1:35) Thank you. I'm happy to be here. Speaker 5 (1:37) Why are you laughing? Speaker 2 (1:38) You know, I don't really reflect back. So far, that far, you know, when you first you say my name and then you go through and you tell the story. And then Speaker 7 (1:47) when you ended off, he said he just lost his job. Speaker 3 (1:53) And Speaker 7 (1:54) now he's sitting in front of me and he just lost his job. And I just thought that that was so it's so funny the way that I'm being talked about right now. Speaker 5 (2:04) But, you know, I mean, there's so much to talk about. The thing about it is. When Marvel approached you, you said, I only have one Marvel dollar to spend. Speaker 7 (2:13) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaker 5 (2:14) You asked yourself whether Wonder Man was the actual role that you were going to spend that dollar. I'm really curious. I thought that was a really interesting way to talk about entering the Marvel Universe and being a part of something that's so big. How are you reflecting on it now that you have spent that dollar and you've gone through this journey Speaker 2 (2:35) on Speaker 5 (2:36) this show that is highly respected? Speaker 2 (2:38) Yeah, so far, dollar well spent, for sure. Look at the experience that I had, you know, and I got to put it out. Now, when I said that, I was talking about fun and longevity. You know, I was talking specifically against a one-off. Speaker 5 (2:53) A role that is going to stand the test of time and not be a one-off. Speaker 2 (2:56) And at the same time, something that was worth my time and something that I enjoyed. That's what a dollar well spent would be. Now, when I flash to present day and I do reflect back, boy, of course it was a dollar well spent. Speaker 2 (3:14) I got to make a fantastic show and I got to play a fantastic character who many people related to. Speaker 5 (3:23) Wonder Man is not a typical Marvel story. There's almost no action. It's a comedy. Speaker 2 (3:31) And Speaker 5 (3:31) it's a comedy about auditioning, shot like an indie film. Speaker 8 (3:35) And Speaker 5 (3:36) the heroes' battles are with casting directors and in his own head. Your character, Simon Williams, he's a working actor in Los Speaker 8 (3:44) Angeles. Years in, without a break, when a reclusive director announces a remake of this cheesy 80s superhero. And Simon goes after the lead. And I actually want to play a clip to set up so folks can know what we're talking about if they haven't seen it. And in this scene, he's at his audition for Wonder Man, reading his lines. Let's listen. Speaker 7 (4:08) Simon Williams, reading for Wonder Man. Speaker 7 (4:19) The Embarra people believe if a soul fails to turn right after death, it ends up in a dark and treacherous place. I've been to the void. I lived in that scream and silence. I know what it's like. I lost whatever part was left in me that makes a person a person until Barnaby pulled me out. No one else ever gave a damn. No one. It's too late for me. But you can still walk away. Speaker 7 (5:20) I'm asking you nicely, just walk away. Speaker 5 (5:24) That's my guess. Yahya Abdul-Mateen II as Simon in Wonder Man. And Yahya, Simon is an over-preparer. He is always in his head. But he gives this performance in his audition that just blows them away. And I've heard you say that you kind of are the opposite when you're stepping into a role. You get the script, you get the lines down, but you step into that and then you allow yourself to surrender to the actual role. There a particular moment where you learn to do that when you realize that you could know a material really deeply. And then there comes a point where you just have to let all that go. Speaker 2 (6:04) Yes. And the secret is that you have to prepare in order to let all that go. So I prepare more than Simon. Speaker 5 (6:17) Oh, you do? Speaker 2 (6:18) Yeah. He's an Speaker 5 (6:19) over-preparer, but you're an over-over. Speaker 2 (6:20) Well, Simon is an over-thinker. You know, Simon is looking for the traps. I'm looking for the opportunities. So I'm different from Simon in that way. So I prepare. And that's the trick. So I do the homework, and then I'm not afraid to let go of the homework. The homework is there to support me, not to decide what it is that I'm going to do. Often when we're acting, we're acting with other people and other factors that we're not aware of when we're doing our rehearsal process. I like to walk the, do the tightrope dance. That's what it feels like when I am putting myself out there with these words and with my character's intentions and when I legitimately don't know what's going to happen. It's more fun for me that way. It's more exciting. Speaker 5 (7:10) Have you ever wanted a role as bad as Simon wanted Wonder Man? Oh, Speaker 2 (7:16) let me think. There has to be a yes. Speaker 5 (7:18) Yeah. Speaker 2 (7:18) There has to be a yes in there somewhere. I wanted to play Booth, the character that I played in the play called Top Dog, Underdog. I've been wanting to do that for 20 years before I got a chance to do it. On Broadway, yeah. Yeah, but I never did pursue it. Speaker 2 (7:35) I don't know if I've wanted anything. I can't think of anything that I've pursued in the same way that Simon pursued Wonder Man. Because he was doing some crazy things for a job. But actors, man, actors, we do all type of things. I was telling stories. I was lying on my resume. I was lying on my resume, you know, back in 2012, talking about all the... different skills and accents I could do and things like that. Oh, when you Speaker 5 (8:05) first graduated from acting school? Speaker 2 (8:08) No, no, no. I hadn't gone to school yet. This was when I was just getting little jobs in the Bay Area, little acting jobs. And I was over-exaggerating. I had maybe played the bongos two times and said, yeah, I could do that. So I put it on my resume. I may have done an accent in class one time. So I said, you know, that wasn't too hard. I put that on my resume, you know. But that's what you got to do. You got to, you know, stack the cards in your favor. Speaker 5 (8:29) What gave you the... the gall to do it, you know? I Speaker 2 (8:32) didn't know no better. And it was just too much empty space on my resume. So I needed to figure out, I needed to find things that I could do so I could write them down. I think what gave me the gall, the empty space, that's what gave me the gall. Speaker 8 (8:51) Season one ends with us expecting to now see what Simon is going to be like now that he has all the things that he has been fighting and working toward. He is Wonder Man. And they point to a pattern of Marvel involving black-led projects. There's Wonder Man canceled despite your nomination for Emmy, Blade dead after seven years, Ironheart, Armor Wars. It's just a whole bunch. And the argument is that Marvel doesn't protect its black-led. Speaker 2 (9:21) You Speaker 8 (9:21) kind of have rejected that. How Speaker 5 (9:24) do Speaker 8 (9:24) you Speaker 5 (9:24) see it? Speaker 2 (9:25) It's not that I've rejected that. I make the observation based off my experience. When you look at the history of those projects and when you put them all together, there's no way around it. It does not look good. It does not look like good business. And it looks like it's certainly not favorable to its black creatives. That's what it looks like. So I'd be ignorant if I didn't, I'd be willfully blind if I chose not to make that observation. I'm always interested in the truth and I'm always interested in what is true for me. And what is true for me is that in the case of Wonder Man, I... actually don't know what happened. What did Speaker 5 (10:19) they tell you? Speaker 2 (10:20) I've heard things about viewership. What I would say is that if that is the case, then when it comes to black led projects, especially black led niche projects, I think they need a little bit more time to cook. Because I think black audiences usually find out and gravitate to the niche projects a little bit slower. They're a little bit behind because they're not always that's not what's always marketed to us. Speaker 2 (10:53) I think that it was one of those projects that needed a bit more time to cook if it was going to depend on the black audience to also give some buoyancy to the, you know, to the numbers of that show. Nevertheless, I will circle back and, you know, and always come back to the point that I'm so thankful and, you know, blessed to have been able to be a part of something that was special, that is special. I'm getting so much love out there. And the reason why I think I'm getting so much love is because people are. Yes, they do feel for me, but what's actually going on is that they love that show. You know, people really enjoy that show. And I know what it's like to have one of my favorite shows be canceled or for it to finally end. You got to find a way to fill that slot, to fill that void. So I think it's a sign that, you know, our show gave a lot of people a lot of, you know, joy and relief and some distraction, you know, in this world. I do hope that I get another chance to step back into that Wonder Man character. Speaker 5 (11:52) What were you looking forward to for season two? Because it's a slow burn that towards the latter half of the first season, now we're along for the ride for him. It ended expecting there to be season Speaker 2 (12:05) two. You know, Simon was just getting used to... Speaker 2 (12:10) fame, you know, and a little bit of notoriety and what he could do with it. You know, we we we followed Simon when he had this dream and we saw him finally get a little taste of what he was after. I was always curious, and I am curious, about what a character like Simon would do with it once he finally gets it. We saw the first thing that he did. The first thing that he did, he went and did something noble. He went to go stand up for his friend. Okay, cool. Now that you've done that, what are you going to do with it next? Because we saw him be egotistical a bit. We saw him be self-centered and things like that. And so those things just aren't. Those things don't go away. Neither does