Best Of: ‘Wonder Man’ actor Yahya Abdul-Mateen II / John Coltrane centennial

Fresh Air

Actor Yahya Abdul-Mateen II discusses his Emmy-nominated role in Marvel's 'Wonder Man,' the show's sudden cancellation, and how job losses l

Key takeaways

• Abdul-Mateen II views his Emmy nomination and the cancellation of 'Wonder Man' as part of a larger pattern affecting Black-led Marvel projects.

Main topics

• Yahya Abdul-Mateen II's career journey and Emmy nomination
• Cancellation of 'Wonder Man' despite critical acclaim

Notable quotes

"I keep on getting laid off and losing jobs. What up with that? But you know, every time I do it, it turns into something better."

Conclusion

The episode offers a reflective look at the intersection of identity,

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:00) This week on the NPR Politics Podcast, Democratic Socialists are having a moment. What's their goal? The goal being to eventually realign the Democratic Party to perhaps someday develop an independent party. But we recognize that in the United States, there just is a two-party system. How Democratic Socialists are staking out political territory. This week on the NPR Politics Podcast. From WHYY in Philadelphia, this is Fresh Air Weekend. I'm Tanya Mosley. Today, actor Yahya Abdul-Mateen II. He's nominated for an Emmy for his performance in the Marvel series Wonder Man. But two weeks after his nomination, Disney announced the series would not return for a second season. But getting laid off is how he found acting in the first place. Speaker 1 (0:48) I keep on getting laid off and losing jobs. What up with that? But you know, every time I do, it turns into something better. You know what I mean? So I wonder what this one's going to turn into. Also, we'll hear from saxophonist Ravi Coltrane, son of jazz musician John Coltrane. He was two when his father died. And growing up, he was just known as Ravi. But as soon as I picked up the saxophone, suddenly I was John Coltrane's son. Plus, Ken Tucker reviews a new album by the trio the Womack Sisters. Granddaughters of Sam Cooke and nieces of Bobby Womack. That's coming up on Fresh Air Weekend. Speaker 1 (1:24) This message comes from WISE, the smart way to manage your money around the world. With WISE, you can send, spend, and receive money in over 40 currencies at the mid-market rate. Learn more at WISE.com. T's and C's apply. This week on Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me, we talk with our panel, Joelle, Nicole Johnson, Peter Gross, and Tig Notaro about the new trade war with Canada. I can't imagine maple syrup being any more expensive. Like, it costs as much as a car. That's true. What kind of car are you buying? Don't miss our full conversation and the rest of our games. Listen to the Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me podcast on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts. Speaker 1 (2:05) Hey, it's Ray from Car Talk. Are you tired of all the depth and thoughtful care that goes into NPR shows? Want some good old-fashioned goofing around and stumbling to figure out what's going on? Well, I've been taking occasional car questions again. You can hear them by signing up for NPR Plus, along with lots of other bonus content. Just go to plus.npr.org. This is Fresh Air Weekend. I'm Tanya Mosley, and my guest today is Yahya Abdul-Mateen II. He's nominated for an Emmy for the Marvel series Wonder Man. He plays Simon Williams, a struggling actor with a secret. He has real superpowers, and if anyone finds out, he doesn't just lose his career, he loses his freedom. Speaker 1 (2:49) Abdul-Mateen grew up in both New Orleans and Oakland, studied architecture at UC Berkeley, and worked as a city planner until a layoff sent him to the Yale School of Drama. He booked his first major role in 2015, nearing 30, and since then he's performed on Broadway in Top Dog, Underdog, been cast as Black Manta in Aquaman, Bobby Seale in The Trial of the Chicago 7, the lead in Candyman, and won an Emmy for playing Dr. Manhattan. and HBO's Watchmen. Wonder Man made him the lead in his very own Marvel series. And then, two weeks after his Emmy nomination, Disney canceled the show a few months after a second season had already been announced. And Yahya Abdul-Mateen II, welcome to Fresh Air. What's up? What's up? What's up? Thank you. I'm happy to be here. Why are you laughing? You know, I don't really reflect back. Speaker 1 (3:46) So far, that far. You know, when you first you say my name and then you go through and you tell the story. And then when you ended off, you say, and he just lost his job. And now he's sitting in front of me and he just lost his job. And I just thought that that was so, it's so funny the way that I'm being talked about right now. But, you know, I mean, there's so much to talk about. The thing about it is when Marvel approached you. You said, I only have one Marvel dollar to spend. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You asked yourself whether Wonder Man was the actual role that you were going to spend that dollar. Speaker 1 (4:27) I'm really curious. I thought that was a really interesting way to talk about entering the Marvel Universe and being a part of something that's so big. How are you reflecting on it now that you have spent that dollar and you've gone through this journey on this show that is highly respected? Yeah, so far, dollar well spent, for sure. Look at the experience that I had, you know, and I got to put it out. Now, when I said that, I was talking about fun and longevity. You know, I was talking specifically against a one-off. A role that is going to stand the test of time and not be a one-off. And at the same time, something that was worth my time and something that I enjoyed. That's what a dollar well spent would be. Now, when I flash to present day and I do reflect back, boy, of course it was a dollar well spent, you know. Speaker 1 (5:18) I got to make a fantastic show and I got to play a fantastic character who many people related to. Wonder Man is not a typical Marvel story. There's almost no action. It's a comedy. And it's a comedy about auditioning shot like an indie film. And the heroes battles are with casting directors and in his own head. Your character, Simon Williams, he's a working actor in Los Angeles. Years in without a break when a reclusive director announces a remake of this cheesy 80s superhero. Have you ever wanted a role as bad as Simon wanted Wonder Man? Oh, let me think. There has to be a yes. Yeah. There has to be a yes in there somewhere. I wanted to play Booth. Speaker 1 (6:13) The character that I played in the play called Top Dog, Underdog, I've been wanting to do that for 20 years before I got a chance to do it. On Broadway, yeah. Yeah, but I never did pursue it. So I don't know if I've wanted anything. I can't think of anything that I've pursued in the same way that Simon pursued Wonder Man because he was doing some crazy things for a job. But actors, man, actors, we do all type of things. I was telling stories. I was lying. Speaker 1 (6:41) On my resume, I'm telling stories. I was lying on my resume, you know, back in 2012, talking about all the different skills and accents I could do and things like that. Oh, when you first graduated from acting school? No, no, no. I hadn't gone to school yet. This was when I was just getting little jobs in the Bay Area, little acting jobs. And I was over-exaggerating. I had maybe played the bongos two times and said, yeah, I could do that. So I put it on my resume. I may have done an accent in class one time. So I said, you know. Speaker 1 (7:10) That wasn't too hard. I put that on my resume, you know. But that's what you got to do. You got to, you know, stack the cards in your favor. What gave you the gall to do it, you know? I didn't know no better. And it was just too much empty space on my resume. So I needed to figure out, I needed to find things that I could do so I could write them down. I think what gave me the gall, the empty space, that's what gave me the gall. Season one ends with us expecting to now see what Simon is going to be like now that he has all the things that he has been fighting and working toward. He is Wonder Man. And they point to a pattern of Marvel involving black-led projects. There's Wonder Man canceled despite your nomination for an Emmy, Blade dead after seven years, Ironheart, Armor Wars. It's just a whole bunch. And the argument is that Marvel doesn't protect its black-led. Speaker 1 (8:09) You kind of have rejected that. How do you see it? It's not that I've rejected that. I make the observation based off my experience. When you look at the history of those projects and when you put them all together, there's no way around it. It does not look good. It does not look like good business. And it looks like it's certainly not favorable to its black creatives. That's what it looks like. So I'd be ignorant if I didn't, I'd be willfully blind if I chose not to make that observation. I'm always interested in the truth and I'm always interested in what is true for me. And what is true for me is that in the case of Wonder Man, I... actually don't know what happened. What did they tell you? I've heard things about viewership. Speaker 1 (9:11) What I would say is that if that is the case, then when it comes to black led projects, especially black led niche projects, I think they need a little bit more time to cook. Because I think black audiences usually find out and gravitate to the niche projects a little bit slower. They're a little bit behind because they're not always that's not what's always marketed to us. I think that it was one of those projects that needed a bit more time to cook if it was going to depend on the black audience to also give some buoyancy to the, you know, to the numbers of that show. Nevertheless, I will circle back and, you know, and always come back to the point that I'm so thankful and, you know, blessed to have been able to be a part of something that was special, that is special. I'm getting so much love out there. And the reason why I think I'm getting so much love is because people are. Speaker 1 (10:09) Yes, they do feel for me, but what's actually going on is that they love that show. You know, people really enjoy that show. And I know what it's like to have one of my favorite shows be canceled or for it to finally end. You got to find a way to fill that slot, to fill that void. So I think it's a sign that, you know, our show gave a lot of people a lot of, you know, joy and relief and some distraction, you know, in this world. I do hope that I get another chance to step back into that Wonder Man character. Speaker 1 (10:41) You grew up between New Orleans and the Bay. And somehow you went to 13 different schools. I think so. I think it tracks like that. Yeah, that's like changing schools every few years. Why did your family move so much? Always looking for a better life. Always looking for a better school. You know, there was six of us. So a lot of that sometimes was about trying to find whatever was convenient for my parents. Like the best fit for our education and things like that. Was there ever a moment when you got tired of it? No, I didn't even notice it. You didn't? No, no,