The Haredi Insurrection

For Heaven's Sake - Shalom Hartman Institute, Ark Media

The Haredi community in Israel is increasingly clashing with mainstream society over military conscription, sparking nationwide tensions. A growing number of ultra-Orthodox Jews reject draft calls, while the government f

Key takeaways

• Haredim feel betrayed by shifting state policies on conscription

Transcript preview

You are listening to an art media podcast. Something's happening. There's a feeling that the Harady community, the ultra-Orthodox community Israel is raising the bar and is increasingly at war with the rest of Israel. A significant minority adopted the slogan, Namut Valonid Gaiy is, we will die rather than be drafted. and of course on social media the mainstream Israeli responses we will be drafted and maybe we'll die. Here it is I can't survive without you and the other one is saying when you want me to serve and enhance your survival my world will come to an end. Hi friends this is Daniel Hartman and Yossi Kline Halevi from the Shalom Hartman Institute and this is our podcast for heaven's sake in collaboration with Arc Media. Today's June 30th and our theme is the Haredi insurrection. Something's happening. There's a feeling that the Haredi community, the ultra-Orodic is raising the bar and is increasingly at war with the rest of Israel and it's a a very interesting position because there is no minority which has been more privileged and more powerful and currently even more powerful than this karate community. They've somehow convinced and it's an interesting question why and how may be worthy of some discussion forcing the government to attempt to pass two brand new legislations. One is a law suspending the arresting of haredi draft Dodgers. And the other one, is the presentation of some form of a basic law which was put forth four years ago, almost three and a half years ago, and that is the basic law of the study of Torah, making the study of Torah a national value, a national value, so that if there is some special consideration given to students of Torah, and when it comes to military service, the foundation of that law, which will then allow it to be accepted by the Supreme Court. and not be discriminatory is because isn't this a basic law which says the study of Torah is the value doesn't explicitly connect the study of Torah to exemption. It doesn't exactly that they can't pass but what they can't pass is listen. study of Torah special. Ah now why you exempt it well listen we have a basic law that says it to a study of Torah special. There's a move going on. It's the Tamuric mind that work. It is a Tamur because politically they can't pass the exemption but this way the karate community could turn to its population population and say look this is a very and for what we're not really sure is it so that he could delay the election from October 20th to October 27th there is some calculation it seems too bizarre to me but I think part of what he's doing is he's trying to establish his relationship with the already community for the next government he's trying to say this is to make sure that they remain firmly in his camp even though they have nowhere to go and even though for four years He basically refused. Other than budgetary compensations, which were very significant, he wasn't able to pass even from within his own government. Yeah, he didn't refuse. He tried. You know, he... I don't know. I think he was ambivalent because he also knew it was very unpopular. But they're very, very powerful, but there's a clear sense, ongoing demonstrations, shutting down of roads. You know, every day we sort of reach another level or another low or another high, depends on a, depends on a major major major, major high, Rabbi from the Shaz Party called the Chief of Staff, the cursed Chief of Staff. It's a kind of rhetoric that we used to hear from the Kharetti Fringe and now we're hearing from the mainstream. They're breaking. There's a sense of a break with Israeli society. They're pushing the line for a reason. And what we want to do today is we want to talk about why. Because it's shaping the nature and form of our country and for many Israelis it's one of the most significant question, it's one of the most significant question. So we're going to try to understand today's moment, but we're also going to try to put it in a larger, both historical and ideological context, which I hope will help us understand where we are today and where we might go in the future. So Yossi, when you see this moment, what is it that you see? A deep sense of mutual betrayal on the part of, on the one hand, the mainstream, that's holding up this war that we have reservists who... have served 400, 500 days. We've never experienced anything like this, not since the 1948 war. And on the other hand, a feeling of betrayal among the Khareidim toward the mainstream. And so if I could just unpack that mutual betrayal. For the mainstream, I think it's fairly straightforward. Not only do we subsidize their separatism, but then they turn around and try to shut the country. To do so at a time like this and the rhetoric there's a part of the Haridi community by no means the majority but a significant minority that's adopted the slogan Namut Villonid Gaius we will die rather than be drafted and of course on social media the mainstream Israeli responses we will be drafted and maybe we'll die and the lack of sensitivity the lack of self-aw awareness. You know, how do you not see how you are perceived through the eyes of their fellow Israelis? And so there's the sense of growing outrage and the chief of staff has been pleading for reinforcements. He says, we can't hold our positions. We need, what is it, 15,000, 20,000 soldiers. And really there's only one place that that's going to come from, if at all, is from the Harady community. partially also from women, from opening up more jobs. And they're trying to stop that from happening. And that's in some sectors of the religious Zionist community they're trying to stop that. And so, but he's holding the line and he actually, when he spoke to the rabbis, they understood that this was a life and death moment and they stepped back, but there is some pushback about women service in various positions, but principally it is from the Kharei community. And so you know, most of us stop there. We're so, we're so, we're so, we're so, we're so, we're so, we're so, we're so, we're so, with our outrage. It's so pure and right that we are also not able to see the other side. I'd like to offer some sense of what I think they're experiencing, not because I agree with them, but because I think we need to understand them. They entered into a pact with mainstream Israel and the pact was you exempt us and we'll support whatever government government government. along and we will gradually shed our theological anti-Zionism and shift to a kind of non-Zionism which increasingly over the years became an Israeli patriotism, a kind of patriotism. They were proud of Israel. They were proud of our victories. Young yeshiva students knew the names of generals and they were, some of them were really expert in military maneuvers. I was reading an article that I'm poor them. They dressed up as Israeli. That's right and I guarantee you this coming poem they will not. And so there was this sense of softening. You know the bitter ideological enmity between Zionism and Herodism was coming to an end except on the fringes. Then suddenly we changed the ground rules and now not only are we breaking the deal but we're accusing them of being michtantim. Tm-Tim is it's more than slackening off to be a michtam mate is almost to be a parasite you know you're letting others do the job that you're supposed to do and suddenly we who have been your loyal allies we are not a hedonistic community we are the last repository of the old Israeli sense of voluntary poverty for a cause you know we used to have the kibbutzim and then the early settler movement We had idealists who took on voluntary poverty. Today it's the Haiti world. I have a cousin, 13 kids, 2 and a half rooms. And you go in there spotless, the walls are lined with religious books, and they have a sense of themselves as royalty. But it is a level of poverty that we don't know. And so we're accusing them of betraying. We're upholding Judaism. We're upholding Torah. And look at the price we pay. at how we live. And so now you're changing the ground rules and not only are you accusing us of not pulling our weight, but you're starting to arrest our yeshiva students. You're turning the cream of our society, the spiritual elite of our society into criminals. This is the red line. And you know, Danil, and we talked about this after October 7th, the change that happened in the Harady community, it was short lived. but it was very profound, this deep identification with mainstream Israel. And I heard it through the music that was coming out of the Karate community. I saw it on these YouTube clips of these Haraidi musicians that were singing about how we're one people, all right, we don't always agree, you know, it was very moving. And those songs are completely gone. See, I think what we need to do if we want to understand the Karatei community and I appreciate your point that each side feels victimized the other and we have to understand them. I don't think you could understand this moment unless you go back to the founding of the Kharetti movement by probably Rabbi Moshe Shreiber, Khatam so fair in Hungary in 18, 10, 12, 13 around that period of time, which is when ultra-Orthodoxi started in response to Enlightenment and at the time the Reform Movement. Because at this moment, what I think you see is a return to a core harei ideology that has been weakening or being diluted by Zionism. They had become a