Israeli-American Relations at a Crossroads

For Heaven's Sake - Shalom Hartman Institute, Ark Media

A heartfelt conversation at the Shalom Hartman Institute explores the deteriorating state of Israeli-American relations, marked by political tensions, shifting public opinion, and internal Jewish identity crises. The hosts reflect on recent events, including political rhetoric, election outcomes, and rising anti-Zionism, urging a reevaluation of strategy and dialogue.

Key takeaways

• U.S.-Israel alliance is at a historic crossroads
• Rising anti-Zionism threatens Jewish unity
• American Jews face identity conflicts

Transcript preview

You are listening to an art media podcast. A few months ago, our pilots and their pilots were coordinating flights together over Iran and we've gone from that standing in a matter of a few months to virtual outcasts, Piraeus. I feel that we are in an existential danger to lose the world and to lose our moral direction. We're at a moment where we have to decide who we are and for me this is even more dangerous than Iran. Today is Wednesday, June 24th, and today's podcast is part of the Robert P. Co. God annual lecture. We dedicated a prior podcast in honor of Bob, and this is an annual lecture that his children funded in his honor. This is a special podcast live from the Shalom Hartman Institute in Jerusalem in front of our CLP. I don't even know what that stands for. Community leadership program. Right, that's right. The community leadership program. It took me many years to learn that. Yeah, I knew these things before, but now with age. So our thing today is a tough one. And the rule that you and I have applied is that even if we don't know what we want to say, or even if we don't even like the subject, if we feel that it is the biggest subject that the Jewish people are facing right now, it's our job to do it, to talk about it. And you're the one, Yossi, who said, Daniel, this is what we have to talk about. And I said, no, no. And you said, yes, and I said, you're right. And he was. And it doesn't always work that way, that it doesn't. And the theme today is called the American Israeli relationship at a crossroad. This last two weeks haven't been easy for Israelis. And I know they haven't been easy for friends of Israel around the world that in particular in North America. A few weeks ago we were hit with the Pew report about how throughout the world we're losing support. But the country that is most significant in which defends Israel and which the day-to-day stability of this country, our ability to be a free people in our home, not subject to a United Nations Security Council sanction, is the United States. And when 60% view Israel unfavorably, and 27% view us extremely unfavorably, we're in trouble. And in that context, these last two weeks, it's really a week, but it feels like a lifetime. We started by being, I would, assaulted, humiliated, demeaned by Vice President Vance. You know, our story of our people is, we're at the center of history. And just, you just, you just, you know, you're 9 million people, you don't matter. I don't have to consider you. I don't have to bring a deal in the memorandum of understanding to you. I don't have to ask you to comment. I don't have to ask you to suggest some improvements. You bombed with us. But now you're like, we are going to worry about American interests and the whole notion that we are a security central ally and asset of the environment. United States, this last week it was shattered. Whether it's objectively true or not is a separate question, but it certainly isn't experienced. That's not his experience. And we've been assaulted by the vice president for quite a while. And I've been feeling this and I saw this also recently in a interesting article where when people ask the vice president a hostile question about Israel, whether it is at a turning point, event where someone says, why do we support Israel when they are violating our Christian values? Or if someone recently asks, how could you support the genocide of Israel? And he never answers those questions. He doesn't defend us. He doesn't defend. We've been uncomfortable, but to see that get played out now in a war of profound partnership where the story we told ourselves about ourselves is how we're doing this together to deal with. a global threat to the world, an existential threat to us, and something that will be an existential threat to the world. And we were there and we were, we told the stories of our achievements and our heroism, and now just shh, shh, shh. And then when President Trump says it, it's just stop, you're aggravating me. It was just like, it was in our face. It's so different. from the story we tell ourselves about ourselves. I don't know if Israelis fully even knew how to digest it. And then just yesterday the recent elections in New York and the election of two of the most, I don't know how you want to call them, anti-Israeli potential future members of Congress, members of the Democratic socialists of America, individuals who on October 7th condemned Israel. It's not people who argue who argue about... In May, on October 7th, we were evil. Yeah, they're not critics. They're denying the legitimacy of Israel's existence. Of Israel's existence. And you sense that also from Amdani, and we did a whole podcast on Mamdani, both hours and then I think also in Call Me Back. And we sensed that it was a different story and it's coming to fruition. Something's changing. And what's troubling is that that these candidates positions on Israel is what's enabling them to win. Like when you think about the challenges facing the United States or the world, you know you could criticize us, I criticize us all the time, but that that criticism is what garners the support, the sense of alienation. So we're at a crossroads and in today's podcast we want to talk about how we understand this moment and it's not an easy moment. And then we want to spend most of our time if we can on talking about so what do we do? Because an essential part of the new story that we tell ourselves about ourselves is that we're not always victims. There's things that we could do. We don't just say, oi, what did they do to us? And we don't turn to God and sake of alt, please save us. We try to help ourselves. So those will be the two stages. And so Yossi, this was not an easy week for you at all. what are your feelings about it? I think about the two flags on the Bima of American Synagogues and this last week in particular was a turning point in the history of the entwignment of those two flags and the significance of those two flags for the Jewish people is that it was the alliance between Israel and American Jewry and then later on Israel and Israel and and America that was the means through which the Jewish people began to heal from the Holocaust and began to reclaim power, hard power here, political and philanthropic power in America. And that's what those two flags, that's what they always represented for me. This past week, a major tear in the entwignment of those two flags happened. I think about, you know, these last week, months in Jerusalem, I'm sure you saw this, there were flags that were mounted on some balconies that showed the Israeli and American flags blending into each other. The same flag. No daylight between these two flags. And that's what these last months of shared combat and Iran represented, the fusion of these two flags. And the red lines that were crossed this week were from both sides of the political spectrum. as you mentioned, Vance not only condemned us, but spoke in a demeaning way that was I think really unprecedented from any major American politician, certainly a president or a vice president. And on the other side, Mandani went a step further and even Jewish organizations on the left that had supported him felt uneasy. somehow distance themselves when he called Apak monsters and drew all the old tropes, dark money, control, evil. And I took that very personally, Daniel. I spent many years on the Apak speaking on the lecture circuit. I worked very closely with Apak 10 years ago to try to stop the Obama deal with Iran. And I always thought that I was part of the of a legitimate, if intense political disagreement. And the mayor of the most Jewish city in the diaspora told us that actually we are beyond the pale. And so from either end of the political spectrum, the message that we got this past week was that something fundamental has changed. And what also really shocks me is, is, the rapidity with which this has happened. You know you mentioned the percentages of Americans who support Israel who oppose Israel just a few years ago, maybe even a year or two ago, those percentages were reversed and how quickly that's happened. A few months ago we were America's closest ally. Our pilots and their pilots were coordinating flights together over even even even even even even even over even a week Iran. And you know when Vance said that you Israeli should remember that Trump is the last friend you have, I was thinking, well you know you guys should remember that we're the only dependable military ally that you have in the world. No one else fought with America, only us. Now of course we had a vested interest. Nevertheless, no one else stood beside America. from that's standing in a matter of a few months to virtual outcasts, Pariah. So the other thing, Danile, that really weighed on me, especially with Mamdani and the results of the election in New York. And we've talked about this in the previous podcast, was the 30% of New York Jews who are said to have voted for Mamdani. Now, you went on. I know many of the Jews who voted for him. And we got lots of responses from listeners who said, you know, we didn't vote from Amdani because of his anti-Israel position. We love Israel. We voted for him because it was a municipal election. And what does the mayor have to do with international relations? Well, yesterday