Justin Ellen: On Cooking Better Than Grandma, Missing Prom to Be On "Is It Cake," and Being A Young Black Baker In a World That Doesn't See You Coming
Food with Mark Bittman
In this episode, Mark Bittman and Kate Bittman host young baker Justin Ellen at Mark's home in Glenwood to discuss his rapid rise to fame. The
Key takeaways
- Justin Ellen gained significant recognition at age 18 by appearing on Netflix's 'Is It Cake?' and fooling judges with a fishing tackle box cake.
- Justin's baking business grew organically through Instagram, driven by his sisters encouraging him to post his work.
Main topics
- Justin Ellen's baking career
- Is It Cake? Netflix experience
Notable quotes
I wanted to make baking more accessible and make people feel confident in the kitchen.
Conclusion
A heartwarming exploration of how authenticity and family connection c
Transcript preview
Speaker 2 (0:02) I'm Mark Bittman, co-host of this podcast, along with my daughter, Kate. Speaker 3 (0:07) I'm Kate Bittman, and our podcast is about food, but really it's about everything else you can think of, too, because that's the way our conversations go. If Speaker 2 (0:16) you like what you hear here, you should also check us out online. We've got a great newsletter that touches on many of the things we talk about here. Plus, we've got lots of recipes. Find us at The Bittman Project on Substack or BittmanProject.com. Speaker 3 (0:50) I actually have a theme this week for my likes and don't likes. And my theme this week Speaker 2 (0:55) is Speaker 3 (0:55) packaged Speaker 2 (0:56) food. Speaker 3 (0:57) So what I do like, there's this woman named Jing Gao, and she's the founder of Fly by Jing, which most people know, I think, at this point. It's sold everywhere, basically. Right. But she started out with Chili Crisp. Speaker 2 (1:10) Right. Speaker 3 (1:12) She's the 20s, but I believe she was mostly raised here. I'm not sure. I can be fact-checked on that. She's now making these. It's for a while now. Like this is not new, but I just want to talk about a specific flavor. She's making these dried noodles with flavor packs and the roasted garlic. I am just obsessed with I literally I think I have 20 packs of them in the cabinet right now because when I'm at home by myself or just really just want a very, very fast meal. I mean, these noodles are so good. And they taste like you can actually make them in a way where they're not mushy or gross. They come out sort of perfectly al dente. They're knife cut, I think. They're sun dried. There's like very few ingredients. They are so freaking good, these garlic Speaker 2 (2:06) noodles. They're Speaker 3 (2:07) very, very, very garlicky. So if you don't like garlic, you're not going to like them. Where Speaker 2 (2:11) do you get them? Speaker 3 (2:12) You can get them Speaker 2 (2:13) at Speaker 3 (2:13) Whole Foods. I kind of want you to try them just to see what you think. Speaker 2 (2:18) Yes, I want to try them. Look Speaker 3 (2:20) at the ingredients. It's like nothing. It's Speaker 2 (2:23) great. Speaker 3 (2:24) Anyway, they're awesome. I love them. And that's my packaged food that I do like. That's cool. I'll talk about my don't like later on in the episode. Speaker 2 (2:33) Okay. Speaker 3 (2:34) What do you like? Speaker 2 (2:35) Well, this is a bit of a change of pace from what you were just discussing. I'm reading a book called Stalingrad by Anthony Beaver or Beavor. And actually, it's not Anthony. It's Anthony because he's a Brit. Speaker 3 (2:49) Oh, I love that. So it's Speaker 2 (2:50) Anthony Beaver. Anyway, he's a... So romantic. He's a known World War II historian. Anyway, Stalingrad, quite possibly the worst, most gruesome, most horrible, just like hard to take battle in history. I'm not going to go into it. Anyone can go look it up. Basically, it was about as far as the Germans got in World War II. And then, despite overwhelming odds, the Russians heroically made us kind of last stand and everybody died. I mean, it's just the most horrible story. And perhaps surprisingly, I mean, I didn't anticipate this, it's just making me feel really happy because it's like... so much horrible than anything we could possibly be living with or anything we have lived with. And it's just making me feel like there's this Shakespeare line, as long as we can say this is the worst, then it's not the worst, or some quote like that. Yeah, it's a great quote. I'm going to look that up, actually. Yeah, look that up. The worst is not so long as we can say this is the worst. But anyway, somehow put me in a good mood. I know it's perverse, but that's the truth. And I'm like, Donald Trump, fascism, fine. At least, you know, we're not like hiding in caves trying to shoot people who are coming after us to kill us. I mean, it may get to that, but it hasn't. Oh, my God. Right. So that's why Speaker 3 (4:23) he's he's wearing diapers. So he's on his way out. Is Speaker 2 (4:26) he wearing diapers? Was that in today's paper? Speaker 3 (4:28) I Speaker 2 (4:29) just think it was like in the news last week or the week before. I guess I missed that. Okay, well, that's something else to like. Donald Trump wearing diapers. What a nice image. Speaker 3 (4:37) Yeah, Speaker 2 (4:37) I love that. Speaker 3 (4:43) Let's talk about our friend Justin. Speaker 2 (4:45) Justin came to Glenwood, to my house at Glenwood, and we made bread pudding together with Bittman Bread. And we had a great old time. Speaker 3 (4:55) Justin Allen is a self-made man. Speaker 2 (4:59) For sure. A self-made, very young man. Speaker 3 (5:02) Very young. He's early 20s. He is from New Jersey. And he was on the Netflix show, Is It Cake? Where bakers... Oh, yeah, that's hilarious. I forgot. Yeah, I know. It's really cool. Bakers are instructed to make something, make a cake that looks so much like a soccer ball, or in Justin's case, a tackle box. Right, a fishing tackle Speaker 2 (5:28) box. Speaker 3 (5:30) Right. And then the judges have to guess which one is the cake and which one is the tackle box. And Justin actually, he fooled them. So that's how talented he is. Yeah, Speaker 2 (5:39) pretty amazing. Speaker 1 (5:41) He just, you Speaker 3 (5:42) know, we didn't really, we didn't know him before we did the podcast with him. His publicist is an old colleague of mine. She reached out. Justin's got almost a million followers on Instagram. And he, you know, we sort of just ended up having him to Mark's house to do the podcast and baking together because we wanted him to try Bitman's to see if he liked it. And he did. And we made... bread pudding from Bittman's with Justin. But we ended up just all getting along so well. And we just love him. He's super authentic and super smart and really works hard. And he's just a really lovely guy. And really fun. We had fun. Speaker 2 (6:26) Yeah. Speaker 3 (6:27) Yeah. It was just, it was a great time. And I'm really glad that we met him and that we're Speaker 2 (6:32) staying in touch. Speaker 3 (6:33) So, um... The interview that follows is Mark and Justin and me at Mark's house. And you may hear some bugs or birds in the background because we're on the back porch. But it's a great interview. Here we are. We're so happy to have you here with us. We never get to do in person. So this is so Speaker 2 (6:53) much Speaker 3 (6:54) fun. I think the actual Speaker 1 (6:55) cooking. Speaker 3 (6:55) Yeah. And Speaker 1 (6:56) thank you for having me. Speaker 3 (6:59) So your book is called Better Than Grandmas. It's such a love letter to ladies and to all the women who raised you. What does, well, you have a great grandma and two grandmas. What does your Nana, who's featured on the cover of the book, think about the title of the book? Speaker 1 (7:17) Yeah, that's Speaker 2 (7:18) a Speaker 1 (7:18) good question. I know it's controversial. But I come from a very competitive. sassy, like, fun family. So she didn't even think twice of it. Like, honestly, I say this in the book, too. She's always joking around when we're, like, late at night baking in the kitchen and my grandfather comes down and, like, annoys her or something. She'll be like, John, go suck an egg. Like, who says that? I don't know where she comes from. We're just, and he'll say something back. So she didn't think twice of it. And honestly, her first reaction was the same reaction to everything. Oh, my God. Like, she's the most, like, lively person and always my number one cheerleader. So she was just really excited. Speaker 3 (8:00) Aw. That's so sweet. You have this thing in the introduction of the book. And you say, don't ask me about baking with bacon. And so I'm going to ask you about baking with bacon. Yeah. Speaker 1 (8:19) It's a long story, but I was baking my nana and our cousin was helping out. Now, he was really young at the time, okay? Like how old? Maybe like five, maybe, yeah. And he wanted to help out in the kitchen. So we were preparing for like holiday dinner or breakfast and we were making egg casserole. She has a specific recipe we make all the time and it includes bacon. He was in charge of cutting the bacon. So he was cutting the bacon. eating the bacon then spinning out the baking into the egg castle that we're baking and i don't know why you would choose to spit it out into the bowl we're using and stuff but um you know it's a fun memory looking back you know it's just a fun time and so you're not against baking with bacon no i love bacon like who would more bacon please but it's just it's just a funny story whenever i think of bacon you could put bacon in that bread pudding you know that would have been good Why don't we think about that sooner? Speaker 3 (9:17) Next time, that would be really good with that bread. Chunks, really good. Yeah, chunks. It Speaker 2 (9:22) would be really good. I'm sure this is not an original idea, but yeah. Speaker 3 (9:26) Well, so what? It doesn't have to be original. No, I'm just saying. It was original for you Speaker 2 (9:29) in Speaker 3 (9:29) the moment. Was the bacon cooked? Speaker 1 (9:33) Yeah, so it was cooked. Yeah, yeah. He's not eating raw bacon. I'm sorry. That's Speaker 3 (9:36) what I thought the story, when you said he's putting the bacon in his mouth when he's cutting it. I was like... oh, we got really sick. No, it's cooked bacon. Speaker 1 (9:43) He's just eating it and spitting it out into our raw egg mixture. And Speaker 3 (9:48) so did you guys eat the bread pudding? Of Speaker 1 (9:50) course they did. It was egg console, but we had to eat breakfast. Yeah, we'll try to scoop what we can, but cooking with family, cooking with kids. Speaker 3 (10:01) Listen, there's not a lot cuter than a five-year-old's saliva. It's like the most pure thing you can imagine, so Speaker 2 (10:08) it's all good. Speaker 2 (10:11) So how'd you learn how to cook? How'd you learn how to write recipes? How'd you learn how to write great cookbooks? How'd you become a superstar? Speaker 1 (10:20) Well, thank you. I started baking when I was really young with my Nana. It's like seven-ish. And I was probably morally annoying her and making a mess. But I just really enjoyed being in the kitchen with her. That's still Speaker 2 (10:33) really great. That's such a great thing, though. Speaker 1 (10:35) When I was like 10, I asked for a KitchenAid for Christmas. What 10-year-old wants a KitchenAid? Luckily, Santa got it for me, and I