Folk on Foot Classic: Nancy Kerr along the Kennet and Avon Canal

Folk on Foot

Folk singer Nancy Kerr joins Matthew Bannister for a walk along the Kennet and Avon Canal to discuss her life and music. She reflects on twe

Key takeaways

• Nancy Kerr lived on traditional narrowboats for approximately twelve years, traveling England's inland waterways.
• Her musical upbringing was deeply rooted in folk, with a mother who is a performer and a father who played Northumbrian pipes.

Main topics

• Life on narrowboats
• Folk music heritage

Notable quotes

I lived on the canals for nearly 12 years.

Conclusion

A poignant look at how landscape and lineage serve as the foundation f

Transcript preview

Speaker 4 (0:00) Hello. We've now launched well over 70 episodes of Folk on Foot, and we thought you might like some help in picking out which ones to listen to first. So, each month, we're going to repost a Folk on Foot classic, hoping you'll enjoy delving into our back catalogue, listening again if you're a devoted fan, or for the first time if you're a recent convert. As always, we need your support. So if you like what we do, please become a member, buy a T-shirt or just treat us to a coffee. You can do all that at the links in the show notes or at folkonfoot.com slash support us. Thank you and enjoy this Folk on Foot classic. Speaker 4 (0:44) We've got off the train in Bradford-on-Avon in Wiltshire and we walked a little way away from the station to where we can just see the river running through a beautiful stone bridge. And let me tell you, it's hot, hot, hot today. It's a hot day in June, slightly humid, but you can also see that quintessential yellow stone that comes so much from this part of the world. So there's a river here. but there's also a man-made canal, and that's why we've come here to talk to today's Folk on Foot guest. We're here to meet the award-winning singer and multi-instrumentalist Nancy Kerr. She was born into a folk family and has often toured as one half of a duo with her husband, James Fagin. Most recently, she's released critically acclaimed solo albums, making her mark as a powerful and poetic songwriter. Speaker 4 (2:17) Nancy, good morning. Hi Speaker 2 (2:18) there. Great Speaker 4 (2:18) to see you. You're laden down with instruments. You've got the guitar and the violin. Guitar Speaker 3 (2:23) and fiddle today, yeah. Speaker 4 (2:23) Are you happy to carry them on the walk? No Speaker 3 (2:25) problem, yeah. Oh, Speaker 4 (2:26) you're stronger than I am, I have to say. Yeah, we'll see, we'll see. We're meeting you in the beautiful surroundings of this Cotswold Stone. What is this building? So Speaker 3 (2:35) this is a 14th century tithe barn at Bradford-on-Avon, and it's part of this little country park that sort of is surrounded by, on one side, as you'll see, in a minute is that the kind of beginning of the lip of the canal of the kennet and avon canal runs right past this hive barn and then just the other side of us is the avon river so we're between those two waterways and it's just a glorious place a lovely green stretch and as you say beautiful historic building but yeah we've spent quite a lot of time passing through this area because we've been itinerant really um living on the canal but definitely have a strong attachment to to this area and to this stretch it's beautiful Speaker 4 (3:13) Well, let's walk around to the canal then, shall we? Speaker 3 (3:35) So the river's just there on our right, the Avon, and then there's a little green spot and we're just going to pop out onto the towpath of the canal. And we used to play cricket here, actually. We used to play little mixed games of folky cricket, I remember. I think John Bowden and John Spires were there at one point. Speaker 4 (3:52) Various folk musicians came and played cricket. Yeah, we were kind Speaker 3 (3:55) of bonded and not too competitive cricket playing. And Speaker 4 (3:59) the Kennet and Avon Canal does what it says on the tin, doesn't it? It joins the River Kennet to the River Avon. Yeah, Speaker 3 (4:04) that's right. and it's got a lovely sort of human natural history as well because it was, what would you say, it was, you know, unusable for a long time and then mostly volunteers dug it out and sort of made it a passable waterway again, which was quite recent, that was the 80s I think. Because it went out Speaker 4 (4:23) of use as a mode of transport after the railways came, Speaker 3 (4:26) didn't it? Well Speaker 4 (4:26) that's right, Speaker 3 (4:27) and many of them fell into massive disrepair. So here we are, popping out onto the... Speaker 4 (4:31) Onto the bank. And there's some wonderful narrow boats here, aren't there? Some beautiful painting. Speaker 2 (4:36) Quite Speaker 4 (4:37) a queue of boats along the towpath. So did you use some more here? We Speaker 2 (4:40) did, yeah. And Speaker 4 (4:41) some ducks Speaker 3 (4:42) swimming past. Speaker 4 (4:44) Which way are we going to walk? I think Speaker 3 (4:45) we should head towards Avoncliffe, so we're going west, more or less. Speaker 4 (4:49) OK. Let's go on the towpath. Speaker 4 (5:04) So what kind of a boat did you have when you lived on the canals? I Speaker 3 (5:07) lived on the canals for nearly 12 years, and during that time had three consecutive boats. They were all narrowboats. The proper Speaker 4 (5:15) traditional boat that you would conceive of? Well, the first one we had Speaker 3 (5:18) was actually really quite traditional, not that it was a historic boat and had been used in industry or anything, but it was built along those lines. It had a wooden cabin, but a metal hull, but a really great, great hull. It was a superb boat there. And then we got, later on, a boat that was all steel, so the whole thing was steel-made, and that gave us a little bit more protection from the outside world. Was it really cold in the Speaker 4 (5:45) winter? Speaker 3 (5:45) No. I know that sounds crazy. Obviously, you know, it's difficult in winter, because there's lots you have to do, but once you get your fire going, once you have your solid fuel stove or whatever going, it's really cosy, you know, it can actually really be lovely. I mean, I did eventually move off boats in 2010 during the big freeze when I had a newborn baby and I thought my time might be done. That's Speaker 4 (6:09) a bit of a Speaker 3 (6:09) challenge, Speaker 4 (6:09) isn't it? Yeah, people do Speaker 3 (6:11) do it, but it wasn't me. Speaker 4 (6:12) So what took you on to the canal in the first place? What drew you to the canal? I Speaker 3 (6:15) had a friend called Kate Fletcher who's a lovely singer and songwriter and she and her sort of community and family, many of them lived on boats and I think it's that thing if you see someone doing that. If you get to see it at close quarters, you feel like you might be able to do it. Actually, that's the same as music for me. Isn't that a lovely bird song? Yeah, Speaker 2 (6:36) isn't that Speaker 3 (6:36) gorgeous? You know, you watch people play, you watch your family play music and you realise that that's what you could do. And it was the same with boating. And I just thought it was a fitting life because I liked the... I liked having somewhere to be that was mine, but I liked changing the sort of environment that I was in. Speaker 4 (6:58) So how often did you move? Speaker 3 (7:00) Well, it depended. You're supposed to move unless you have a place that you can moor. You're supposed to move regularly, so we would have what was called a continuous cruising licence, which meant we did a lot of travel. We saw a lot of the inland waterways. of England you know we went all over did Speaker 4 (7:17) you go on tour on the boat then we Speaker 3 (7:18) never quite did that I mean we were musicians on the boat and occasionally it lines up but really a maximum of four knots I'm not really going to be able to get Speaker 4 (7:28) from gig to gig yeah exactly the Speaker 3 (7:30) M1 I have to say I you know it works better what Speaker 4 (7:33) was the best part of it the Speaker 3 (7:37) best part of it was That feeling of always being at home but being travelling as well. And the kind of secrecy of it actually. So we would always, if people came to visit us, we'd always show them how we lived and show them the canal. And we felt like it was a secret part of England and a part that had a different flavour and a different pace. Speaker 4 (8:07) And it's very calming, actually, as we're walking here alongside the canal, because there isn't a ripple on the surface of the water. It's really still Speaker 3 (8:14) today, isn't it? Yeah, Speaker 4 (8:15) and it just feels very calming to watch water slowly eddying past. It Speaker 3 (8:21) really is. I used to love the morning reflections of the sun. If the hatch was open on the boat and the water was reflecting light onto the ceiling of the... boat which of course is not very far from you at any time yeah i used to really love that and Speaker 4 (8:39) this one here has got amazing plants growing on the roof like somebody's created a garden on the roof one Speaker 3 (8:44) of the things about moving off the boat was that i was so happy to get a garden that's Speaker 4 (8:49) the thing Speaker 3 (8:50) that's what i always craved i loved the life i missed well i'd never had never had a garden so Speaker 4 (8:56) And what did you want a garden for? To Speaker 3 (8:58) grow food and herbs and space. A productive garden. Yeah, and I've got a fabulous garden. We don't grow loads of food, but we grow a bit and create a bit of habitat, which I couldn't really do on the boat, but many people do. People do have green spaces that they can more buy and own and that sort of thing. There's lots of different ways of doing it. That's what I loved about the canals. There's so many people there for lots of different reasons, having different kinds of lives. You know, lots of people living as we were there because it's affordable, or it was. It was an affordable way for us to have a lifestyle we wanted. And then there's people making a statement about living off-grid and living privately and being among nature. And then all sorts of people who just want to enjoy the history of the waterways. Or, you know, it's just, there's no one identity. Speaker 4 (9:51) Did you ever fall in? Speaker 3 (9:53) Yeah, all the time. About once a month. Speaker 4 (9:55) Really? Yeah. Speaker 3 (9:56) And one time I was on my own and I fell in. I imagine I looked a bit like one of those mythical selkie creatures from, you know, northern mythology. I was kind of covered in slime and I just kind of poked my head up from the side of the canal with my hands on the side of the towpath and asked two men to lift me out. Speaker 4 (10:16) So there's a swing bridge here. Speaker 3 (10:19) Yes, there's quite a lot of these. This one's locked open, but there's lots of these because the canal was actually a defence during the war. So they had lots of swing bridges that they could then make sure couldn't be swung, basically. To Speaker 4 (10:30) keep the Speaker 3 (10:30) enemy out. Yeah, to keep the enemy out. Speaker 4 (10:32) Would you like to sing on the bridge? Let's Speaker 3 (10:33) sing on the bridge. Oh, yeah, brilliant. Speaker 2 (11:03) Time the old river ran into the sea Sunset forces the day down Spraying white horses are waiting for me Still the drow trilling its river tone under your hand Set the brow out of the water and onto the land Turn to the tip Time the old river ran into the sea. Sunset forces the day down. Spraying white horses are waiting for me. Through the tar, gray and green waters are waiting to meet. Clear a swaying its water dance under your feet. Shallow water of green running into the sea. Leave me till day dawns. Spraying white horses are waiting for me. Speaker 2 (12:45) Time the old river ran into the sea. Sunset forces the day down. Spraying white horses are waiting for me. Speaker 4 (13:04) That was fantastic. You've attracted an audience of cyclists. Oh, gosh. Speaker 1 (13:08) I thought something was happening. Speaker 4 (13:11) Does it feel good to sing it here by the canal? Yeah, I literally Speaker 3 (13:14) wrote it here. Maybe not on this bridge, but on one of the bridges or one of the moorings. So it's come home Speaker 4 (13:20) after all those years. Yeah, and Speaker 3 (13:21) I haven't sung that. I've never sung it with guitar and I haven't sung it for ages. We recorded it on an album called, I think it's on Twice Reflected Sun, me and James, my other half. But yeah. rediscovered it and all the little words and quirks and I remember exactly the