26. Finding Freedom from The War Within with Amra

Finding Freedom with Peter Crone

Amra shares her harrowing experience of surviving the Bosnian war as a child, which left her trapped in a cycle of paralyzing fear and hyper

Key takeaways

• Amra experienced the onset of the Bosnian war at age 11, leading to long-term nervous system trauma.
• Her fear manifests as compulsive checking behaviors, such as repeatedly verifying if the stove is off or doors are locked.

Main topics

• Trauma recovery
• Bosnian war history

Notable quotes

The ego... doesn't want to be healed. It wants to be held.

Conclusion

The episode provides a roadmap for moving from trauma-induced hyper-vi

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:00) Hi, this is Peter Krohn and you're listening to Finding Freedom. In this episode, which is a big wow, I just worked with Amra and I feel this is going to touch the lives of millions of people because really she's speaking from what I consider to be the default 1.0 mindset of humans, which is to be living in fear and suffering. And she had very good reason to. Born in Bosnia, lived through the war as a little girl, and unbeknownst to herself for three and a half decades has still been living in war, but just inside of her nervous system. If you in any way are holding on to a history that still leaves you feeling scared and sometimes in terror, this episode is for you. I hope you get to discover what she got to discover, a world of complete freedom, love. pure possibility and absolute joy on the other side of the limits that have been defining you. Welcome to 2.0 World. Welcome to Finding Freedom. Speaker 1 (0:56) And I did see you in London. I came to an event in London. Speaker 2 (1:00) Did you enjoy that? Speaker 1 (1:01) Oh. That was so amazing. The energy, like what I enjoy, what I realized after the event finished is that the collective energy in the room is just unbelievable. Speaker 2 (1:15) So are you based in the UK then? Speaker 1 (1:17) No, no, no, no. I'm based in Romania. Speaker 2 (1:20) Okay. I Speaker 1 (1:21) live in Romania at the moment with my husband and my son. He's 12. Speaker 2 (1:25) He Speaker 1 (1:26) better not hear me say that he's 12. He's turning 13. Speaker 2 (1:30) Okay, it's very important for him. It's very Speaker 1 (1:33) important. It's a big deal. But originally, I'm from Bosnia. I'm from Sarajevo. Speaker 2 (1:38) Okay, so you submitted a video saying that you really struggle with fear, which is okay. That's fine. But it plagues your life in terms of checking the doors and not being able to do things. Explain a little bit more of how it sort of seems to have control over your life. Speaker 1 (1:58) It's just overwhelming. Paralyzing is the word. Like how many times can you go out of the house and check the stove? Like I even tell myself, for example, like you switched it off. Do not come back, you know? And I just keep on coming back. The doors at night, the fear that somebody will come in and the fear is like, take my child away. All these kind of... Crazy. I thought I was watching too many movies. But then I realized that actually when I did a lot of work over the years, my life was kind of like a movie. You know, I lived some of the things that were in the movies. So I guess when now the life is kind of stressful, I guess the old things and patterns come back. So it's just paralyzing. I would have a simple thing to do. For example, I don't know, write an email. a simple email, I would procrastinate, I would freeze, I would stay for hours just not doing that. It's, I don't know, the word is paralyzing. I think I like, yeah, I Speaker 2 (3:11) get it. It's okay. It's okay. So you're in a safe space. I have no doubt that we're gonna be able to get beyond this. And I can probably make some pretty accurate guesses as to where it came from. But I'd like to hear from you. especially given where you grew up and your background. I even wrote, Speaker 1 (3:28) if I, sorry to interrupt, like I even wrote, if I get to freeze, I wrote, do not skip these words, you know, just say them out. So I'll just keep them here, you know. Yeah, that's fine. Speaker 2 (3:40) No, you're well prepared. I appreciate that both for yourself, for your own comfort and also to help me help you. So tell me, so tell me about your... upbringing, your childhood, I can guess some of it based on where you grew up. But as you've heard me say, past hurt informs future fear, right? So typically, the things that we're scared of and fear is as a byproduct of the way that we have experienced life as a child, the things that we went through. So I'm sure you've got plenty to share. Speaker 1 (4:14) I was listening to some of your podcasts before I got to talk to you. And you were saying something about stories that we just make them up. And I was like, will I share my story? Because then in the background, I feel like, because you were talking something about victimhood and stuff. And that's why for many, many, many years, I didn't choose to share my story. Because there are so many people that had it worse than me. It was very overwhelming. I was 11 or 11 and a half when the war started in Bosnia. Speaker 2 (4:49) And it Speaker 1 (4:49) really came by surprise. It was overnight. On Friday, I went to school. And on Monday, all the shops were robbed. My brother's best friend with sniper in our living room. So it was just Speaker 2 (5:01) very, Speaker 1 (5:04) very overwhelming. And as a child... probably I didn't have a capacity to actually understand what was happening, which was a good thing in a way. But then as I grew up and I became aware of certain things and I matured, I actually realized and I kept on going back and back and back and back to the story. Speaker 2 (5:25) I Speaker 1 (5:26) did have a lot of therapy to try to understand what happened and try to understand that this is past. But I never, ever managed to accept it, acknowledge it, and just move on. That's what I realized. We were in a war for maybe a year. And then because my grandparents and my brother were in the other city, that city got occupied. We didn't have communications with them. Speaker 2 (5:57) So Speaker 1 (5:57) we didn't know if they were living or not living. So when we realized, we got a Red Cross letter that they... kind of alive, then we wanted to get out from the city. And by that time, at the end of the 92, not a fly could get out except special convoys. And my dad stayed because he was military capable, so he couldn't leave. Speaker 2 (6:20) And Speaker 1 (6:21) he didn't even want to leave. And then my mom and I decided to leave. Speaker 1 (6:26) So we did, but we couldn't get out as ourselves. So we had to have fake IDs and completely like new identities and stuff and go through enemies lines and snipers and all that stuff. So yeah, it was needless to say complicated. Speaker 2 (6:47) Yeah, it's okay. I mean, the word that comes to mind, especially through the eyes and senses of a child is it's terrifying. you know that's what i still feel is in your nervous system is absolute terror right Speaker 1 (7:01) absolutely and that actually started coming up when I had my child. Speaker 2 (7:09) And Speaker 1 (7:10) as Alex was growing up and he started asking questions, my mom unfortunately passed away two and a half years ago. I'll also get to that. But he was very connected to my mom. And we visited a lot of times. So we never discussed, we're not a family who kind of discusses these kind of heavy, heavy things. We never did. So I didn't explicitly. sit him down and say this is what happened but he's a very smart uh kid and as he was growing up and asking questions i was telling him few things of course modified versions of it what he could um handle but as he was getting to the age that i was when that happened which is kind of around this time these fears just came back like i was Speaker 2 (7:57) just Speaker 1 (7:59) teleported back to the time and Yeah, I tried journaling. I tried therapy. I tried name it, I think. Speaker 2 (8:10) I Speaker 1 (8:10) tried it, but it's just coming back. Writing, journaling did help in a way because I kind of left it on the paper. I said some things that I was kind of never allowed, that they were not politically correct to say. Speaker 2 (8:26) So Speaker 1 (8:27) I just wrote it down, and then at least it felt like somebody heard. Yeah. You know, so kind of that helped a bit. Speaker 2 (8:35) Yeah. No, I get it. It's okay. Like all of us, whatever it is that we go through, your nervous system is going to react and respond according to the circumstance, right? The thing is now, how old are you now? 45. Speaker 1 (8:51) I think 46 in my son's language. Yeah, Speaker 2 (8:55) almost. Yeah, for him he's almost 13. Almost. Almost. Yeah, exactly. Okay, so 45, almost 46. So the things that you went through, obviously, are predominantly, you know, about 30 plus years ago, right? I'm Speaker 1 (9:13) carrying that. I'm carrying that stuff for 30 years. I mean, sorry. Yeah, yeah. Speaker 2 (9:20) Yeah, it's okay. It's okay. So the first thing I want you to do is just be okay with it. Right? Meaning like, because what I hear is, One, there's the discomfort of having the fear. That's not fun. As you said, having to go back and check the stove five or six times and all the other things that drive you almost like an OCD kind of behavior, right? But the other thing is you then got resistance to it. You've got judgment of yourself for it, right? Speaker 1 (9:50) Yeah. Speaker 2 (9:51) So you've got to understand. So if your son right now was in any kind of scary situation, God forbid a war, and he was terrified, would you judge him for it? Speaker 1 (10:03) No way. Speaker 2 (10:04) No way. You'd love him. Right. So that's our first access, Amra, is to start to see, oh, hang on a minute. your nervous system is still being dictated and run by a scared little girl, and then you're making her wrong for that. Speaker 1 (10:22) Right. Speaker 2 (10:22) You see that? So imagine you had a little cute, little adorable daughter who's going through this terrifying war and you're saying, no, you shouldn't have this or you're being judgmental of her for feeling scared. You wouldn't do that, would you? No way. So if you could just feel that, first of all, how does that hit your body? If you could just allow, knowing that your nervous system, there you go, that's a little softer breath, right? Speaker 2 (10:51) How would that feel? If you could just say, for now at least, it's okay. It's okay that you still got all of this terror in your system. Speaker 1 (11:00) Yeah, it's so hard for me not to judge myself. I'm so okay of not judging others and giving space to them. Speaker 2 (11:08) I love doing that. But Speaker 1 (11:09) when it comes to me, I'm like, yeah. But it feels very nice. Speaker 2 (11:14) Yeah. Okay, good. There we go. Yeah. Softer, right? Speaker 1 (11:18) Softer. Yeah. It's like I see you type of a thing. Like I see you and it's okay for you to be scared. Speaker 2 (11:26) Yeah, you go. There you go. Like I use many terms and expressions and quotes, as you know, and I say the ego, which is really what we're dealing with here, doesn't want to be healed. It wants to be held. So I want you to consider your first barrier to freedom has been not the fear itself, but it's that you've been trying to get rid of it. Speaker 1 (11:50) Right. Speaker 1 (11:52) Yeah. Speaker 2 (11:53) Which I know seems counterintuitive because you're like, well, yeah, duh, I want to get rid of it. Yes, but fear... Sorry, Speaker 1 (12:00) funny enough, I keep on telling my son when he gets scared, I keep on telling him, Alex, it's okay. We just need to learn how to be comfortable in discomfort and it will pass. Speaker 2 (12:16) Yeah. Okay. Yeah, so you're teaching the right things, but it's easy, as you said, to see things in others or hold space for others and maybe not so much for ourselves. So first of all, it's okay. So just notice fear is there, right? Fear comes up and quite regularly for you. Speaker 1 (12:34) Yeah. Speaker 2 (12:35) For now, just with me, can you just now, I'm not saying we want it to stay, but can you be okay with that, that sometimes Amra gets scared? Speaker 1 (12:45) Sure. Speaker 2 (12:46) Yeah. It's called being human, right? And especially given your background as a child, growing up in a war zone, that's pretty damn scary. Speaker 1 (12:56) Yeah. Speaker 2 (12:58) So if we can start to locate that and feel in your body, if you could just with me make space for whatever it is you experience, in this case, you know, terror, fear, panic, can you see that that allows your body just to soften a little bit? Speaker 1 (13:16) Yeah, I still feel it, but the body is like, it's okay. It's okay. Speaker 2 (13:21) It's okay, isn't it? Well, let me see. What's one of the most joyous things about your son? Is it when he gets up in the morning and you see his cute little face? Oh Speaker 1 (13:33) my God, you read my mind. Yes, when he wakes up in the morning and the first morning cuddles. It's just nothing replaces that. Speaker 2 (13:45) So first of all, reading minds is part of my occupation. But secondly, yes, it sounds delightful. So when you have your morning cuddles with him, are you trying to get rid of that sensation that you have with him? Speaker 1 (14:00) Oh, no. I'm like... absorbing it it's like my i'm there i'm really there fully Speaker 2 (14:10) present enjoying every moment savoring it right yeah Speaker 1 (14:14) yeah Speaker 2 (14:15) i can see it can almost bring you to tears so now listen on the spectrum of what it is to be a human amra we go from all the way out to hopefully bliss and this divine experience of love and connection intimacy, affinity that you experience with your son in the morning cuddles. That's one end of the spectrum. And the other end of the spectrum we could call absolute panic and terror, dread. But here's the thing, they all belong to the human scale of emotion. And what you're saying is I just want the good stuff. I don't want the other stuff. Speaker 1 (14:55) I think I'm saying I can't handle other stuff. Speaker 2 (14:58) I know, I know. But why is that a lie? Speaker 2 (15:06) Why is it a lie that you can't handle it? Speaker 1 (15:08) Because I handle so much. Yeah, Speaker 2 (15:11) you're here. You handled way more as a child. Like now you're in Romania, you're in your home. You're not in war zones. You're not having to make fake IDs to get past enemy lines. You know, the worst thing you have to do is go back in the house and see if the stove is still on. It's not that tragic, right? Speaker 1 (15:32) Yeah, correct. I see what you mean. Like on a conscious level, I see it. And when you say like that, it sounds funny. Speaker 2 (15:43) I like to bring as much comedy to my work as possible. Yes. Speaker 1 (15:46) Yeah, it's just, it's