How To Master Seduction, Understand Desire & Influence People | Robert Greene | FO565 Raj Shamani

Figuring Out with Raj Shamani

In this episode, Robert Greene joins Raj Shamani to dissect the psychological mechanics of seduction, power, and human influence. Greene exp

Key takeaways

• Seduction is a psychological process of directing focus away from oneself and toward the desires and vulnerabilities of others.
• Creating mystery and sending 'mixed signals' prevents you from being taken for granted and keeps people thinking about you in your absence.

Main topics

• Psychology of Seduction
• The 48 Laws of Power

Notable quotes

The game is to make people think about you when you are not there in front of them.

Conclusion

The episode provides a profound look at the hidden drivers of human at

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:00) How to seduce anyone. People who are insecure have a very hard time seducing. So the first quality in all these form of seductions is to try and get rid of your insecurities. And the way you get rid of your insecurities is when you're with people, you're not thinking about yourself. You're focused on them. What they want, what they need, what their weaknesses are. You give that to people, the world will open up to you. Speaker 2 (0:25) Tell me what is the most... seductive quality somebody can possess. You Speaker 1 (0:29) have to have some skills with words and language. Women are very susceptible to words. When they hear somebody talking well, who's funny, who's witty, who's good with compliments, etc. It has very seductive power. What Speaker 2 (0:44) is the difference between people who are remembered and people who get forgotten in a day. Speaker 1 (0:49) The game is to make people think about you when you are not there in front of them. So if there's a woman and you're out on a date and she goes home and she's thinking about you, you've seduced her. So you need to create a little bit of mystery. about yourself. Speaker 2 (1:03) Robert Greene, the author of the 48 Laws of Power, the Art of Seduction and Mastery. And in this episode, we get inside his mind and uncover the rules of power, influence and human behavior that could make you the most powerful person in the room. Speaker 1 (1:20) Human desire is very much viral. We want what other people have. You never had a girlfriend. Women really aren't interested in you. But if they see you surrounded by other people who are attractive, it makes them interested in you as well. Speaker 2 (1:36) What are small behaviors that... people are unconsciously doing and it's making them appear weak. Speaker 1 (1:42) People who talk a lot, who are always blathering about what they think about their emotion, that makes you look weak. I noticed in meetings, the person who talks less but has a commanding presence to him or her is kind of emanates power. And then when they do say something, everyone's listening. What did they say? So Talking all of the time makes you feel weak. Speaker 2 (2:04) How do you become the most powerful person in the room? Well, um... How do you not feel powerless and insecure in front of a very powerful person? Speaker 1 (2:13) I tell you, and I know this, because I have to interact sometimes with powerful people. Speaker 2 (2:17) You said we all are attracted towards dark traits. What are these dark traits? Ha ha ha ha ha Speaker 1 (2:25) ha! Speaker 2 (2:29) I have a small favor to ask you. I need you to subscribe to our channel. The more subscribers we have, the better and bigger guests we can bring and provide you more value through these conversations. And the full audio experience of this show is also available on Spotify, where you can follow us and listen to the new episodes as well. Now let's get into the episode. One of the first things in my head comes is Speaker 2 (3:00) How do I become the most attractive person in the room so that I start attracting opportunities, right? And I often ask myself the same question, which you answered in your books, but I want to ask you again, how to seduce anyone? Speaker 1 (3:18) Well, is it seducing a woman? Is it seducing an audience? Is it seducing the world? What kind of seduction are you? Speaker 2 (3:29) Let's go one by one, all three. Speaker 1 (3:33) Seduction is a psychological process. It's not a physical thing. It's a pure psychology. And one thing we can say for sure that people who are insecure. Do not have a very hard time seducing. It makes, if you've ever had this experience where you're around somebody who you can sense is very insecure, it makes you a bit insecure. It makes you feel odd, right? But if you're around somebody who's confident, who feels secure, who feels powerful and accomplished things, yes, you might be a little bit intimidated, but it also is very seductive to be around that person. You could kind of catch. some of their confidence. So the first quality in all these form of seductions is to try and get rid of your insecurities. And the way you get rid of your insecurities is when you're with people, you're not thinking about yourself. You're focused on them, right? You get outside of yourself. People think seduction is evil. The word is evil, but it's not. It's a form of therapy and it's actually a form of being social. You get outside of all of your problems, all of your worries, all of your anxieties, and you focus on the other person, what they want, what they need, what their weaknesses are, what they're not getting from life. And you give that to them. And so getting outside of yourself and all of your worries and concerns. projecting a feeling of strength and confidence and focusing on their spirit and getting inside of that and giving them, think of how rare it is in your life or anybody's life. That people recognize you and validate who you are and understand what your psychology is and kind of, you know, get inside your world and are interested in it and think that there's something great about you. It hardly ever happens. Because everybody's thinking about themselves. You give that to people, the world will open up to you. Speaker 2 (5:40) So be interested in the other person. And you said, find out what do they need, right? How do I find out what another person needs in a social setting? Speaker 1 (5:53) Well, if you're talking about individual people, you can't do it like in one go. It takes a little bit of time. We think so much in words and we're in our heads a lot. But there's an animal part of our nature, right, that's very powerful. If you stop your thoughts, you stop thinking about yourself and you absorb yourself in the energy of the other person. You start picking up signs and signals that are nonverbal, that are physical, that come from who they are. You say something and their eyes light up and they get very excited. Ah, you know that that's something that they're missing, that they want, that they need, that no one's giving them, right? But you're not going to pick up that signal if you're thinking about yourself. Do they like me? Do I look good? Am I wearing the right clothes? You won't pick up their signals. But you know, Raj, it's not easy to cut off internal chatter. That takes practice. Listening to people and not having all that inner chatter and focusing on them. And slowly it'll become a skill that you can develop. It's the most important skill that you'll have for success in life, for seduction or for any kind of power. Speaker 2 (7:13) To shut down inner chatter. Is there a practice or a trick that somebody could practice in their life on daily basis to learn that? Speaker 1 (7:21) Well, I tell people like. Speaker 1 (7:25) Go out in the world in something that you do every day, like you go to the supermarket every day and you buy whatever it is. Here in the States, you go to the counter and you buy fish or meat from somebody behind a counter, right? You see them every day, but they're not a person to you, right? And I say, pick somebody out like they're in your life that you see often, but you never pay any attention to, right? And try to think of what their world is like as you talk to them. Like, imagine their apartment and where they live and their day-to-day life and what their family is like and what their childhood must have been like. Of course, you're not going to figure it out. It's not going to be accurate. But it's fun. We don't do things unless they're fun, right? Yeah. So going out in the world and thinking it's like a movie and I'm going to figure out what these characters are like, what their world is like, is actually entertaining. And I, because I've been doing it my whole life and maybe it is who I am, I'm always doing that with other people. Tell me what is the most Speaker 2 (8:42) seductive quality somebody can possess? Speaker 1 (8:46) Well, I'll tell you, I lived in Paris many years ago, well before you were born. I was like 21 years old. I was working in a hotel. I was a receptionist in a hotel. And there was this man who was from Brazil, very tall, very handsome. He was the most brilliant seducer I've ever seen. Right? And I remember once. He had all these women were attracted to him. It was so easy for him to seduce. But he never was faithful, right? He was always cheating on whatever it was. I was walking down the street with him. And this woman came up to him very angry because she saw he was with another woman and that implying that he was cheating on her. She got really angry. She started yelling. And he stood there and he was so calm and he didn't get angry and he didn't get apologizing. He said, oh, I'm so sorry, blah, blah, blah, blah. He just stood there and he was understanding. He was listening to her. And he had this kind of calmness and this coolness about him. And he expressed regret for this, et cetera. But he wasn't weak and mewling and apologetic, right? And she just melted. She just melted. She couldn't resist it. So the point I'm saying is the lack of defensiveness in a person is incredibly seductive, right? Speaker 1 (10:24) Most people that you meet are all defensive and closed and resistant, right? They're so worried and so trying to protect themselves, right? You meet somebody and they don't have that quality. And it's like almost like they don't have an ego, right? And they're not defensive. They're not resisting you. It draws the same quality in you as well. There was an actor in Hollywood named Errol Flynn, who it was like the, he was, women just dreamed about him. He was very handsome. He was just a very seductive male figure. And he was an incredible seducer. He probably slept with over 5,000 women and he died when he was 50 years old because he was an alcoholic. But I found a quote from a woman. I was trying to figure out why was he so seductive? And the quote from this woman was, being around him was like having drunk three martinis. You just felt so relaxed. He made you feel so relaxed. He had this animal presence. He wasn't nervous. He wasn't defensive. He wasn't all tight. It just was like drinking like a martini. He just made you relax. It's not an easy quality. A lot of people don't have it, but it's by far the most seductive quality. So Speaker 2 (11:49) let's say if there are two people, right? One becomes very memorable and seductive in one room. And the other person is also, let's say it's social, is great, but other person becomes instantly forgettable. What is the difference between people who are remembered and people who get forgotten in a day? Speaker 1 (12:13) Well, I'd go around this question from a different angle. Speaker 1 (12:20) Seduction is a game where you're trying to make the other person think about you when you're not there, right? So if there's a woman and you're out on a date and she goes home and she's thinking about you, you've seduced her. If she goes home and she's kind of thinking about you a little bit, but she's also thinking about other people, her job, you haven't really succeeded. So the game is to make people think about you when you are not there in front of them, right? So I wrote a whole book about that and what you need to do. Yeah. But you need to create a little bit of mystery about yourself. Like you said something that's kind of provocative that they don't quite understand and it makes them go home. They think about you. What did you mean? You have qualities that I had a chapter in seduction called mixed signals, sending mixed signals. You appear to be something. Very strong. But you send a sign of there's something else going on inside of you that's quite different, right? So you're a man. You feel very, you come across as very masculine and strong. But you send a signal that there's something about you that's almost feminine where you're aesthetic. You're interested in flowers or whatever. The woman goes home and goes, hmm, what an interesting character. I've never met anybody like that. He's very masculine, but he has this other side to him. You know, so she's thinking about you. So if you don't, if you're just trying to be yourself, if you don't understand the game, if you don't put any effort into it, people won't remember anything about you. They only remember you when you're there in front of them. But when you leave the room, when they're not there, forget it. And that's the whole game is making them think about you when you're not there. Give Speaker 2 (14:15) me one more example. I love this. How to make people think about you when you're not in the room. Speaker 1 (14:22) Well, I mean, as I said, these are all things in the art of seduction. So when I first met the woman that I'm with now. Speaker 1 (14:33) um a while ago right before i wrote the art of seduction um Speaker 1 (14:40) We had gone on a date, but nothing really came of it. Okay. And so I didn't know if she was interested in me. My birthday was coming up and I happened to have at that time. I still do. I had a lot of female friends who are very beautiful. Right. And I was going to have a birthday party at this restaurant and there would be four or five of these very beautiful women there. I very clearly invited her to come to this party afterwards, you know, when we were having dessert and everything. So she would see me surrounded by attractive women who were interested in me. Right. So knowing that somebody that is attracted to other people is very seductive, particularly to women who can be very competitive that way. But it works with men as well. The sense that nobody desires you, that you never had a girlfriend, women really aren't interested in you, makes the other person wonder. But if they see you surrounded by other people who are attractive and know that there are other people interested in you, it makes them interested in you as well. And then they will go home and they will think about you because they will be competitive. So human desire. is very much viral. We want what other people have. If you pass by a restaurant, you want to have dinner. And it looks good, but there's nobody in the restaurant. Speaker 2 (16:21) I don't Speaker 1 (16:22) know. But the food's good, but you don't want to go in there. You pass by this other restaurant, which might have mediocre food, but it's 20 people are in there. They're all laughing. They're drinking every great time. I'll go in there, right? Because other people are enjoying it and our desire is viral. It's contagious. So if you make... Other people feel like you are desired by others. They will go home and they will be thinking about you because they're competitive. They're going to want to be one of those people that desire you as well. Speaker 2 (16:51) See, that's true. But somebody who's not desired at all, someone who is not in demand, it doesn't look like that man or a woman is being desired by anyone. How can they manufacture this? How can they actually do this? Because their first problem is that nobody's interested in them. How can they make other people look attractive? Well, Speaker 1 (17:10) I Speaker 2 (17:10) can't make Speaker 1 (17:10) somebody like that into a great seducer. You have to work at it. So it's not like people are born great at this game, right? The man I mentioned in Paris, it wasn't that, okay, he was handsome. I grant you that. But he had been working on it for a long time. He understood the psychology of it. So if you understand the psychology of it, you're going to go, all right, I have to find. People have to, I have to get people interested in me, right? I have to get women looking at me. What is the qualities that I can have that will do that, right? You have to put some effort into, you have to work on it. Speaker 1 (17:52) Nobody is born with, you know, all these women coming to them and looking attractive. You work at it. I built those friendships over years because I happened to like women and I was a rake back then. But it took work. It took effort. It took effort to be desired by other people. Right. You have to have some skills with words and language. Women are very susceptible to words. When they hear somebody talking well, who's funny, who's witty, who's good with compliments, etc. It has a very seductive power. True. Men, their weakness is the visuals, is the looks, is the physical aspect of the woman. Right? So you have to be aware of the psychology of what's going on and play to those things and build up those qualities in yourself. You're not born that way. I can't take somebody. who feels like they're a loser, that nobody likes them. I can't instantly turn them around. They have to work at it, right? And I've helped people before who've been in that situation. And slowly we build up confidence. We get rid of the insecurities. Step by step, if you're that person that you mentioned, If you start getting rid of your insecurities, if you do things that will make you confident, and sometimes you can fake a little bit of confidence, you will start attracting interest. You will start attracting people and then you will build some momentum. And then the things that I'm talking about, about creating triangles of desire will start to be powerful and effective. Right? True. Speaker 2 (19:31) True. You know, you gave an example of this Brazilian man. You said that he was... unfaithful and yet women would engage with him. And yet women would, will melt in front of him. And we all have seen this, right? The kind people, the generous, the most nicest people, they don't end up getting a lot of women, right? Why do you think, like why nice people don't? Speaker 1 (20:02) Well, it's not completely true. Some nice people can be very seductive. But if you're too nice, it comes across as weakness and it comes across as insecurity. Speaker 1 (20:15) We talked about mixed signals. You're a genuinely nice person. You can't help it. That's who you are. But if you can mix in something that's a little bit harsh, that doesn't seem quite so nice, that will have some seductive power. Speaker 1 (20:32) You know, if you're so weak and you're so nice, people will wonder about you. What's wrong with you, right? But so like with the rake, like this man, the Brazilian man. Women knew that he was never faithful, but it's always in the back of their mind. Maybe I will be the one that will finally make this guy faithful, right? That competitive interest in the other person. Speaker 2 (21:02) Why? Like why the person who's faithful, you don't, you're not attracted to that. Speaker 1 (21:08) Because there's a side of people that feels that there's something weak about you. So if this man is desired by all these other women, Well, there must be something very interesting about him. There must be something very attractive about him. There was an English poet named Lord Byron, who is like Eduardo, this Brazilian man. He was extremely unfaithful. And there was a reputation that he was kind of evil, right? Did he actually sleep with his sister? Did he actually maybe kill somebody? It made them really, really interested in him, that hard edge. They're very attracted to it. Men, if the woman is so soft and so sentimental and so nice, something feels wrong about it. But you give me a woman who's got a little bit of an edge to it, who maybe isn't so nice to me. who feels like there is something slightly dangerous about it, that is incredibly, incredibly seductive. That very nice woman, you may want to marry her and have children with her, but it's not the same thing as a seduction, as a woman who's very seductive. Speaker 2 (22:23) But have you noticed that the woman that you're describing, a woman who's nice, she is most trusted, she's genuinely a good person. often get played the most. Speaker 1 (22:37) Yeah. Well, because they're very naive and they're very trusting and their trustingness makes them open to the worst kind of man, you know. But also, I'll make this point. People are secretly drawn. to what is dark and transgressive. So we all pretend to be interested in virtue and being so nice and loving and caring and doing all the great things that make us virtuous because that's the culture we live in and we're social animals. But that same time we're attracted to the dark side, to what's transgressive, to what has a little touch of evil to it, right? And because there's so much pressure in our world to be so nice all of the time that we get kind of sick of it. Right. And so the woman who is very nice and sweet and trusting, secretly she is drawn to the rake, to the rebel, to the man who's going to hurt her. She doesn't want to be hurt. Don't get me wrong. But she's secretly drawn to that man who is not like her at all. Right. Speaker 2 (23:50) Then is like being good or like being a good person a big disadvantage in today's world? Speaker 1 (23:59) No, I mean, it depends on how you play it. I mean... Speaker 2 (24:04) See, because you said a good naive woman gets played, a good man doesn't usually end up getting a lot of attraction. So technically, being a good person, it looks like a disadvantage to me. Speaker 1 (24:17) No, I would never say that. We're talking about... seduction in the realm of seduction. But in the world, when it's like politics or what's dealing with your family or dealing with friends, I would never say that being a bad person or being mean to people is good. I don't like that quality in people, but when it comes to love and seduction and sex and the physicality, an edge, all I'm talking about is you have an edge, right? If you're just, all soft and cuddly and you have no edge, that isn't a seductive quality. Because we live in a culture in a time where it's kind of woke and people are supposed to appear virtuous and good. A lot of people who appear nice and virtuous aren't inside, don't have that quality. They're actually not like that. They're covering up something else going on inside of them. So the real quality is much different. When I worked in Hollywood, it's a world where everyone's supposed to be so liberal, so nice, so wonderful, so woke. But they're not like that at all. You close the door, they're yelling at their secretary, they're screwing people around, they're being manipulative, but nobody ever sees that. So there are a lot of people who are fake with their virtue, you know. Do Speaker 2 (25:41) you feel, and that's something that I think, and that's my belief based on what we just spoke about. I feel. Being little evil and playing these games or manipulating is a leverage in environments where there's anonymity. And what I mean by that is when you're in a big city, when you meet new people every day, when you're on dating apps, when you're just like. There's n number of people and you don't have to meet them again and again. Probably manipulation and evil games takes you a little further and makes people more attractive towards you. But when you are in an environment where there's a lot of social and community around you, where you have to see a same person again and again and again, then their manipulation usually becomes a disadvantage because The word travels all around and people know you. And once they know that you're a liar, you're manipulative, your chances of succeeding in that small environment actually reduces. I Speaker 1 (26:41) don't disagree with you, but it's a subtle game. It's not like just black and white. Speaker 1 (26:49) Let's say you enter an