Charli xcx

Fashion Neurosis with Bella Freud - Bella Freud

Charli XCX discusses her creative restlessness, the emotional power of art, and her unique fashion identity in a candid conversation with Bella Freud. The episode explores her journey from childhood creativity to global stardom, highlighting her fusion of music, fashion, and performance. She reflects on inspiration, vulnerability, and the magic of collaboration, especially through her new album co

Key takeaways

• Art is essential for emotional survival and identity.
• Restlessness drives constant creation and prevents depression.
• Embracing childlike playfulness fuels authentic creativity.

Transcript preview

Hi, come in. Welcome to Fashion Neuros Charlie XX. Thanks. Thanks for having me. of like a major heat wave in London and nobody really has a C here so I really you've really got to like dress for that and you've got to be like prepared to kind of be getting a bit hot and flustered so my clothing choices for this past week have really been based around weather in London. I don't know like comfortable as I'm like lying on your beautiful sofa feel relaxed we've also been talking a lot about like the angle oops and like how that works with clothes things like that so yeah I just I went for something easy my like Levi's and some old like vintage guest shoes and this wholly Yeah, I love those studded shoes. They're fun, aren't they? Yeah, they're really good. I think. Oh. Yeah, they're cute. They're also, I love wearing a heel that is actually so comfortable to run around it. And this is exactly what these shoes are. Yeah, they're great. Elegant, too. Thanks. And you're a superstar in the world of music, film and fashion. And as well, and as well, as a new music style you've created a way of using clothes as part of your performance that has captivated an audience of young kids and ex-punks like me and in 2025 you headlined Glastonbury and won the Ivanovello songwriter of the year you've been on the cover of Vogue you're not one to rest on your laurels and I wondered where your restlessness comes from. A great question. I think my restlessness first of all comes from just this like innate passion to always be making something I feel really really lucky that I get to make things all the time and to be honest I don't really have hobbies you know outside of what I do like my dream kind of being in the studio making a song or making something with friends of mine or watching back to back films or talking about films that we've seen you know I just I don't like to sit still and sort of switch off that side of my brain because then I get bored you know I I just I don't like to sit still and sort of switch off that side of my brain because then I get bored you know I I feel by engaging with art and different kinds of art and artists that I just want to do it all the time. So I think in part it's that and then in part it's I don't really know what I would do if I wasn't doing that. You know, like I think engaging in making things brings me so much joy to the point where it's like, you know, it's like I do what I do to kind of like, you know, I do, I think I do what I do to kind of like in a way. fight off my depression and stay alive. You know, it's like it's my first love in my life over anything else and I take that really seriously because I know that making things that actually is really healing for me and my kind of inner voice which sometimes is running haywire. And I think there is also, coupled with that there is probably like an of like running from the silence if I'm being real you know maybe I do need to kind of like practice stopping and sitting in that kind of more calm state but that is something I'm definitely out of practice in I don't know I feel I mean I really relate to what you're saying and I find that calm space and I don't know I feel I mean I really relate to what you're saying and I find that calm space in the middle of like in the eye of the storm so I find it more stressful to be trying out the calm thing. I yeah I agree with you I think I've done it before where you know once you push through that sort of two-week mark you can kind of like sink into or me at least I can but I rarely do that I've done that once you push through that sort of two-week mark you can kind of like sink into or me at least I can but I rarely do that I've done that once in my life I think really I just I just these things. It's more than just a kind of enjoyment of them. It's like I need to be pouring my emotions into those outlets, you know? Mm-hmm. Because I came to your music through watching the film Bottoms and I heard the track Yes, no, okay, and I loved it so much because it's so funny and it's punk and it's punk and it reminded me. of when I feel ambiguity, which is rare. And you seem like the bard for young women being both scathing and sincere. And I wondered, how did you know how to articulate those conflicting states of being? You know, it's funny, it's like, I don't think I really know anything. music, I'm never really thinking too much in advance about what I will be saying or what I want to say. Not all the time, but a lot of the time. I think for me, making music is very much kind of like when you have a thought, the thought comes, you know, and then you say it out loud and yes, sometimes you can like trace back. why you might have had that thought because of your circumstance but like I don't know that generally speaking it's like the thought just comes out right and for me it's like when I'm writing songs it it's like I don't know where the the personality comes from except it's just from me it's just from me and it's just the things that are kind of within me that I out loud and I think I've always had this relationship with music and with any kind of like creativity in general that like for something to be fun and funny doesn't necessarily mean that it also can't be like deeply serious and important and I think there is still a bit of a sticking point around that you know and that's not to say that I'm sort of anti like work that takes itself very seriously I also really enjoy enjoy that too. But I think something being fun and funny and silly even at points is also totally valid as like a serious way of working and I kind of like bringing those things together, bringing that sort of attitude with humor, with, you know, something more kind of introspective and sincere, I suppose, because that's how I feel about art in general and music in general, you know, that all of those feelings can kind of collide together to make something that feels very real and personal. Because you said that life without art would have no purpose and how old were you when you realise that this is where your drive and your current, you're comes from? I mean, I started I started making music when I was probably 13 or 14 and I think at that point in time I didn't really know that I felt that way. I knew that I felt that way. I knew that making songs and recording ideas made me feel good. It made me feel good. It made me feel safe. in a way, it made me feel like I could escape to my own world, you know. But I think it was sort of as I grew older that I realized that so much of my joy and my personality and who I am as a human being is so interwoven into either making or engaging with arts in some capacity. Even my friendship, my best friends and the things that they make, whether they're making music or you know I have a friend who makes furniture and a lot of sort of chairs out of metal and lights and things like that. It's like even like the things around me I feel like I don't know I'm constantly around people making things at different scales and levels and with different ambitions and I just I feel very privileged and lucky and of course I'm aware of that that like I'm surrounded by that and yeah it's sort of just become this like fabric of my entire life and to strip all that away it's like I don't really know what I would have because it's such a kind of fundamental part of a lot of my relationships. I don't really know what I would have because it's such a fundamental part of a lot of my relationships. with other human beings as well. Yeah, it's an amazing filter. I was, that scene, that famous scene in the cocktail film where he goes through the mirror. I often think of those moments where you feel like you're going through the mirror and you're pushing yourself or discovering this moment where you're you, something else comes out of whatever it is, you're kind of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit. You're pushing yourself, you're kind of a bit about absorbed with and it's such a great moment. Yeah and I find for me at least a lot of the times those kind of moments happen it's like where I make some kind of mistake or sort of an accident happens and it can become something quite beautiful and actually like defining in a way. just let ideas flow and also really kind of embrace being almost child-like when it comes to creating. And you know I think to be child-like as an adult I think takes a lot of bravery because there's always this fear of being embarrassed I suppose. I don't know like making things is inherently embarrassing you know because not only do you have to possibly like suggest some really terrible ideas out loud you also have to kind of like I don't know just like be willing to just completely fall on your face all the time but I think just kind of just kind of pursuing that child like can sometimes really open you up to ideas that maybe you would feel too embarrassed to have if you weren't kind of doing that and I think that's quite a scary thing but a really beautiful thing once you're able to kind of go there. I suppose when you're in action the more you are the more you are and it kind of seems to get into your system to just dare to be seen type of thing. Hi, I'm Nicole Phelps, Global Fashion News and Features Director at Vogue, and co-host of the run-through podcast. Each week on the show, our listeners get an all-access pass into the world of Vogue. On Tuesdays, join me as I interview influential designers like Calvin Klein, Rachel Scott, and Simone Bilate. On Thursdays, on Thursdays, join Chloe Mao, head of editorial content, and Chomonati, British Vogue's head of editorial content, as they explore fashion through the lens of culture, with gosh a cat and Margot Robbie. Listen and watch the run-through with Vogue wherever you get your podcasts and Vogue's YouTube channel. And your parents met in a club. I wondered, this fashion a thing in your household? I mean, you know, it's funny, it's like, so my mom grew up in Uganda. And so when I was younger, I was always kind of like dressing up in her saris and things like that. And you know, they were all so colorful and with these brilliant patterns and really beautiful materials with like, you know, bits of gold thread woven in them and you know, that was sort of one side of, um, me growing up, you know, getting to kind of like experience all of that color in such a kind of maximalist way because all of the stories that she had were very colorful. And my dad, I mean my dad like he was always so encouraging of me to really kind of embrace my, he was always so encouraging of me to really kind of embrace my, um, my outrageousness, you know, I think, I think he, especially when I was younger, you know, and when I was kind of in school and then going to art school a little later in life, like, I think he was very much of the ethos of like, you should dress crazy, like why would you want to blend in? Like, it's fun to wear like odd shoes on your feet and like, and that's the kind of thing that I was doing when I was younger, especially because I was kind of like hopping in and out of London right when like the kind of like the kind of like the kind of, the kind of, new rave scene was sort of dying. And so, you know, there was that time where everybody was sort of like making necklaces out of teapots and plastic toys and things like that. So I was kind of like doing that and my dad was like really encouraging me and I think my mom was a bit like, oh, that's weird, you know. But then they themselves, I mean, they never really like pushed like... aesthetics or fashion or even music onto me really like they really they really kind of just let me sort of navigate that myself and be into what I was into so you know I was like listening to like Brittany and the Spice Girls and things like that when I was younger and it was only a little bit later when I kind of got deeper on the internet that I was a bit more finding things from like an earlier time and that kind of stuff Yeah, I remember talking of teapots, I remember going to a club when I was a teenager and seeing the slits there. And they were where, they used to wear colored tights with fishnet tights over. And then I can't remember if they, but one of them had sown these tiny little wooden teasets onto onto their