Beloved of the Gods: Ashoka Maurya in His Time and Ours

Echoes Of India: A History Podcast

The episode explores the historical reality of Emperor Ashoka Maurya, contrasting the popular image of a benevolent Buddhist saint with the more

Key takeaways

• Ashoka's 'Dhamma' may have been a tool for political control and moralizing paternalism rather than pure pacifism.
• The Mauryan Empire's reach into South India was likely driven by economic networks and Buddhist monks rather than direct political administration.

Main topics

• Ashoka Maurya
• Mauryan Empire

Notable quotes

Thus says the beloved of the gods, he who is... Butteful?

Conclusion

The episode provides a critical lens on how historical legends are con

Transcript preview

Speaker 5 (0:00) Whatever it is in life, the first thing is very important. First memory, first love, first heartbreak, first work. Friends, I am Gopal Dutt and this is Speaker 6 (0:10) my first podcast. Speaker 5 (0:12) First with Gopal Dutt, which will be released on IVM Pop. I will talk to those who are busy with their work, whose name we all know. So come to the YouTube IVM Pop channel or wherever you listen to podcasts. Listen to our podcast. Meet interesting people. Speaker 4 (0:32) First and foremost with Gopal Dutt. Speaker 6 (0:51) Hey, wake up da. What? Where? Why? What's going on? Okay, wake up. Traveller. Speaker 3 (1:00) We open our eyes to the harsh Deccan sun. Standing over us is a chap chewing happily on a leg of roasted deer meat. Speaker 6 (1:10) Come on, come on. Up Speaker 3 (1:12) you Speaker 6 (1:12) get now. You know, I have seen these foreigners travel in some weird ways. But you guys really took the cake. Really. What's going on? Well, the sky is open suddenly. And I heard one, My name is Anirudh Kani Setti. Welcome to Echoes of India history podcast. And then you two fell out of the sky and landed next to this monument. Speaker 6 (1:39) And I used to think those Northie guys riding on elephants and on those hornless deer things were weird. Speaker 3 (1:49) Hornless deer things? You mean horses? Oh, Speaker 6 (1:54) fancy fellow, huh? Some rich kid. Hey, look here. I come from sunny inlet, next to the greeny lake, okay? We haven't been to where all you rich people live on the shore and all, but we also don't take shit from anyone, okay? You wanna fight? Speaker 3 (2:12) No, no, sir. Very sorry. I'm just disoriented. What is your name? Speaker 6 (2:18) You can just call me Sunny Inlet Dude. SID. Sid. For short. Okay? And you must be that Anirudh Kanisetti. Some Buddhist monk you are. Are you? I hear those fellows have all sorts of magical powers. No. That's a long story Speaker 3 (2:37) but it doesn't really matter. Where are we, Sid? Speaker 6 (2:40) I will tell you. You are at the seven mounts near where that grumpy dude from North India had those scribbles cut into the Speaker 3 (2:47) rock. The grumpy dude? Speaker 6 (2:51) Yeah, you know. What's his name? That one... Ashwatthama. No, no. He is not from the past. He is still playing. What is that? Ashoka. Speaker 3 (3:04) Ashoka Maurya? The ruler of the Mauryan Empire? The emperor of all of North and most of South India according to modern textbooks and random people on the internet? More young. Empire. What is that? Speaker 6 (3:19) And what are all these other words you said? India, textbook, internet. No, no, no, no, no. Hey, traveller fellow. This guy is the king of Magadha, da. You mean Magadha? That's what I said, no? Anyway, you've actually come at the right time. The great dummy. is about to honor us ignorant fools with the grumpy dude's deep insights into human nature. Come on, come on, let's start walking. Speaker 3 (3:49) The sun is high in the cloudless blue sky, and it shines off a dry, thorny landscape with a sparse red soil. Not too far ahead of us, a crowd has gathered at the bottom of a hill. They're all dressed like Sid is, which is to say they're not really wearing a lot. Though even at this distance, we can see simple gold ornaments on some of them. Sid chucks the deer bone and fusses with a bag tied around his shoulders. It seems to be filled with iron implements. Great dummy... Speaker 6 (4:24) Why is he a dummy, Sid? Because he won't shut up about this dummy thing he got from North India. You Speaker 3 (4:31) mean Dhamma? The Emperor Ashoka's Dhamma? That's what I said though. See, this great dummy Speaker 6 (4:40) used to be pretty chill. He's the son of the chief of the curvy hill across Delta. CHAD, Chad for short. But then, he went to the coast where the grumpy dude is building one's tupa. He met some Buddhists. He did some networking. Now the next thing you know, he's appointed himself a savior of us all. Who called him? Anyway, this grumpy dude wanted to set up this carving to enlighten everyone. So that great dummy, he helped him. See, I'm not complaining and all. Those northerners have some good ideas. Speaker 3 (5:14) Hey, you see this little silver thing? He's holding up a small disc with a hole punched through it and looking at us through the hole in the disc. Speaker 6 (5:25) Yes, Sid. This is a cane. This is named what? Caine. Just like one of these things means that my family doesn't have to hunt for a whole week. We can just give it to that family over at the next hill from ours and they will do the hunting for us. Can you imagine? We used to have to forge iron for them all the time. Now, they basically work for us. What a beauty! You know what this thing is called? It's called a money. I Speaker 1 (5:58) want more of it, my precious. Speaker 3 (6:03) Ah, you're iron workers. You forge and trade iron. As we walk, we see in the distance what looks like a huge mound of ash, the height of several men. On a distant hilltop are what seem to be great sheets of rock, carved and carefully balanced into imposing structures. Speaker 3 (6:26) Yes, my boy, Speaker 6 (6:27) we've been doing it for generations now. But it has never been this lucrative. My uncle who taught me, he barely had any work. Maybe once in a while when the village needed some defending. But me, I am going to make sure my nephews are all well settled as forgers in some big town on the coast. I just hope the little rascals don't get it into their head. Anyway, anyway, hey, here we are. The great dummy is about to start his recitation. Let's listen. Speaker 3 (6:56) In front of the crowd is a chonky individual standing next to a colorful banner in front of a rock. Carved into the rock are some rather poorly shaped symbols. With great ceremony, the chonky individual rubs a white powder into the symbols to make them clearer. Then he squints at them and hums and hauls for a while and then he turns to face the crowd. Speaker 1 (7:23) Okay, okay, listen up. Thus says the beloved of the gods, he who is... Butteful? Wait, that can't be right. He who is beautiful to look at, whatever the beloved of the gods orders, must be carried out in every respect. The officer is to be instructed, and he will instruct the people of the countryside, assembling them with the sound of the drums. Likewise, the local chiefs, obey mother and father, obey the teachers, have mercy on living beings. Speak the truth. These virtues of Dhamma should be followed. Oh, Speaker 4 (8:10) really, great dummy. I wasn't planning on obeying my parents ever. Speaker 4 (8:19) Why is the great dummy telling us to have mercy on living beings when he himself is always eating wild hens? Speaker 1 (8:28) And he also says, thus you will instruct them on the orders of the beloved of the gods and also you will ensure that elephant trainers, clerks, fortune tellers and Brahmans instruct their apprentice according to ancient traditions. that they should honour their masters. Righteous masters. In a family, relatives must treat each other with respect. This is the ancient custom, conducive to long life. And thus, it must be carried out. So funny. Speaker 6 (9:08) I Speaker 1 (9:09) say, Speaker 6 (9:09) Traveller fellow, the great dummy really outdid himself this time. So much comedy. You know he does this to get his annual salary from that grumpy dude's agents. But he usually at least prepares beforehand. At least little bit. Anyway, I'm just chumma digging his case. He's not really a bad sort, but he's become one big trader since that stone was set up here, you know. These northy merchants keep turning up now to trade with us because of him. Good coins and all to be made, no? So much money. But they're also funny chaps. They speak some strange language da. Plucklit. Plucklit. Plucklit. Pluckit. Something like that. They're very funny, you know. They replace every rrrr with Speaker 3 (9:57) lllll. This is all very interesting, Sid. Yeah, early Magadhi Prakrit is a strange language. My name would be Anilod if those guys were reading it. But leave that aside. I was told that Ashoka was a great and powerful and sexy emperor who ruled all of India and was so pious and so Buddhist and his empire was so centralized and that everyone obeyed him and his officials. Speaker 6 (10:24) Where on earth? What? What empire? Centralized? Officials? What do you mean this great dummy here? And what Buddhists? You mean those bald guys on the coast? What nonsense! That grumpy dude has been chumma setting up all these inscriptions to seem like he's some kind of saint. But did you hear what he did in Kalinga? That guy is a psycho. Anyway, it's not like we ever hear from that old buffoon. Just now and then, these people like this great dummy, they want to suck up to him. See da, I have never obeyed anyone in my life except my uncle and my grandmother. That much I will tell you. But hey, hey, hey traveler, what's happening to you da? You're fading. Why are you fading da? Speaker 3 (11:12) Oh no, we're being pulled back into our own time. Grab hold of something friend. Speaker 3 (11:19) Wait, Speaker 6 (11:19) wait, wait. What is that? Oh, by all the ancestors. Oh, the clouds are swirling. And there is a gap in the middle of them. I hear a voice in my mind. Ah, I can hear it. Is this what being possessed by the gods is like? Oh, I'm going to speak with the voices of the ancients. Welcome to the season three finale of Echoes of India. If you enjoyed everything so far, then head over to buymeacoffee.com slash a kanisette and help me continue working on this labor of love. No amount is too small and you'll be helping create some of the most critical and accessible South Asian history content on the web. What are all these words? What am I saying? What is going on? I have never seen the clouds move like this and this wind, this thunder. Just do what this fellow is telling you. Everybody, please help. Help. What is happening? Speaker 3 (12:23) My name is Anirudh Kanesetti. Welcome to Echoes of India, a history podcast. Speaker 3 (12:33) Yes, yes, that was a dramatic way to open the episode, I know. But hey, not everyone listens to the end of the episode and a guy's gotta eat. Also, if you'd like to see a reading list for this season of Echoes, check out my website, anirudhkanesati.com. There'll be a link in the description and sign up for updates. Now, with all of that out of the way, let's talk about what we just witnessed and what this, the longest ever episode of Echoes of India is going to be like. Speaker 3 (13:04) The man known as Ashoka Maurya shapes the way we think about ancient India the way that no other person, not even Siddhartha Gautama does. He is arguably the most famous of all ancient Indian figures, by most accounts the dominant ruler of the subcontinent, a redeemed man of great vision and humanity, credited with making Buddhism a global religion. As you may have guessed thanks to Sid in the intro, I have rather different ideas on who this man was and where he fits into the history of India and the world. So in this climax of our epic 10 episode long tale about the peoples of the early Kanjetic Plains, what we're going to do is first understand what is said about Ashoka, where these ideas are coming from and then explore Ashoka's world and figure out who he was, how he might have been seen in his time and what came after. We're also going to see how all of this connects to the many ideas, themes, places and peoples we've explored together over the last three seasons of Echoes and how far back and forward in time all these connections in India's history go. So, Ashoka Ashoka, the grumpy dude according to our friend Sid. What do we know about him? The guy was the grandson of Chandragupta Maurya, the chap who overthrew the Nandas and took over the empire of the Gangetic Plains in the last episode. Chandragupta had massively expanded the power and influence of the kingdom of Magadha, the core of the Gangetic Plains. In fact, if you remember the Shakas or Indo-Scythians in season 1, Their ruler Rudradaman claimed to have repaired a dam that Chandragupta's governor built near Junagadh in Gujarat, a thousand kilometers from the Mauryan capital, Pataliputra. This is an indication of just how far the influence of the Gangetic Empire had reached so soon after it had first solidified under the Nandas. Speaker 3 (15:05) Ashoka's father, Chandragupta's successor, was called Bindusara Amitraghata, the devourer of enemies. Precisely what Bindusara did with his time on the throne, we have no historical records to show, but he clearly kept the empire together after his father's death. Now, all this stuff we know clearly from various forms of evidence. As for the rest of Ashoka's story, well, honestly, we have almost no idea. But texts composed many centuries later tell us quite an interesting story. This is the version from a Buddhist text preserved in Sanskrit and Chinese sources called the Ashoka Vardhana. Ashoka was among a hundred sons of Bindusara and he was ugly, his face covered in rough bumpy skin which made him the target of merciless bullying in the Mauryan palace. Early in his life, he was appointed to rule as Viceroy in the city of Ujjain, formerly capital of Avanti in central India. Remember Avanti? In episode 4 of this season, Mr. Brainy of Shravati saw it as the middle of nowhere in the 5th century BCE, but by Ashoka's time in the 3rd century BCE, it was a major trade node under the control of a new Gangetic empire that dominated Shravati, Rajagaha, Kushinara, and Ujjain alike. Here Ashoka fell in love with a merchant's daughter and they had a daughter together Sanghamitta and a son Mahinda. Speaker 3 (16:33) But Ashoka was always an ambitious sort, with his eye on the throne. He left Ujjain on his father's command and went to the city of Takshashila in Gandhara. Takshashila was where Mr. Fighty in episode 8 of this season, set in the early 4th century BCE, was from. You might remember what a grand city it would become under the Indo-Greek and Kushan kingdoms in later centuries if you've listened to season 1 of Echoes. But many centuries before all that, when Takshashila was still dominated by the distant city of Pataliputra in the Gangetic Plains, Ashoka helped put down a rebellion by local peoples caused by the high-handed behavior of his brother Sushima Maurya. This established him as a highly capable candidate for the