Talking Dateline: The Family Plot
Dateline NBC
Hosts Keith Morrison and Josh Mankiewicz discuss the 'The Family Plot' episode of Dateline, which details the murder of Matt Restelli. The e
Key takeaways
- Matt Restelle was lured from California to Utah and shot seven times in his mother-in-law's home.
- Tracey Grist utilized a manipulative, 'Svengali-like' power to influence her children in the crime.
Main topics
- The murder of Matt Restelli
- Tracey Grist's manipulation of her children
Notable quotes
Nothing's more dangerous than the truth.
Conclusion
The episode provides a chilling look at how extreme family dysfunction
Transcript preview
Speaker 5 (0:00) Stay informed with the NBC News app. Speaker 1 (0:02) Major developments out of the White House. Speaker 5 (0:04) Read, watch, and listen throughout your day. And now, unlock even more with an NBC News subscription. Get deeper reporting and exclusive articles. Plus, more insight, analysis, and content only for subscribers. When you really look inside these numbers. It's more context and clarity from the reporters you trust. Download the NBC News app now and subscribe for more. Speaker 1 (0:30) Corrupt people will always run for office, but we have to stand up to them. When a local journalist. If officers do something that's against the law, we're going to write about it. Takes on a sheriff. Speaker 5 (0:40) We began getting allegations of violence. Speaker 1 (0:43) Nothing's more dangerous than the truth. These stories really got them angry. It was a complete madhouse. Speaker 5 (0:49) It cost us everything. Speaker 1 (0:51) I knew they didn't like us. I had no idea they would talk about killing us. From producer Rachel Maddow. Speaker 1 (0:59) Hi Speaker 3 (1:05) there, I'm Keith Morrison, and this is Talking Dateline. And we are joined today by the illustrious Josh Mankiewicz. Actually, the real Josh Mankiewicz, as opposed to some, you know, fakery Josh Mankiewicz, which I've been seeing on social media lately. I'm Josh Mankiewicz. I'm Speaker 1 (1:24) Josh Mankiewicz. Speaker 3 (1:25) Will the real Josh Mankiewicz please stand up? Speaker 2 (1:30) I think an argument can be made that that's the real Joshua. Wait a minute. You're the fakey guy. Speaker 3 (1:36) That's right. The other one was the real one. He looked like a nice fella. Speaker 2 (1:41) So I'm here in Boston to meet in person somebody that I really only know from the online world. And here's the thing. His name is Joshua Mankiewicz. Alert viewers of Dateline may have noticed that's also my name. So I thought it was time that we meet. Speaker 2 (2:00) Josh Mankiewicz. Josh Mankiewicz. Josh Mankiewicz. Good to meet you. Nice to meet you. You're taller than I expected. You're taller than almost any other Mankiewicz that I know. Now, anybody who has not Speaker 3 (2:11) seen this reunion of the two Josh Mankiewicz's on social media might be able to find it. Anyway, we have Josh Mankiewicz to talk about the episode, our season premiere of our 35th season. It was called The Family Plot. The story begins with a man shot to death. In the foyer, I guess, or the hall of his in-law's house, mother-in-law's house. And then there's a long and twisted investigation to see what happened. And I will say that from very early on in this episode, nobody else may have noticed it, but I sure did, that that young detective, A, was very impressive. And B, looked so much like a guy you could see on Scandinavian murder mystery stories. on television named Olafur Olofsson. Have you ever seen him? Speaker 8 (3:01) Oh, he's the star of Trapped, which is- Exactly that. Iceland. It's set in Iceland. So good. But the Speaker 3 (3:09) doggedness and the sincerity were also shared traits. And I was an admirer of that. You did a great job. Yeah. Well, anyway, before we get to the story, why don't you listen to the episode if you haven't yet? You can find it right below this one or stream it on Peacock and then come right back here. And when you come back, we'll have more from Tracy Grist's police interview, the night Matt was killed, and later we'll answer some of your questions from social media. All right, let's talk Dateline. This was a good one. This was just, I loved the investigative part of it. It really followed this investigative trail. What was your impression of the thing when you began to hear the details? Speaker 2 (3:49) Well, I mean, it is... It is mind boggling when you sort of look at this. I mean, they lured this guy from California to Utah, you know, mom sort of involved as many members of her family as she could in doing that. And they all kind of, I guess, did what she said. I guess they were kind of used to that over the years. Then they tell this phony story that Matt, the victim in this, you know, came in aggressively and pushed Kevin up against a wall and he had a knife. And like instantly, you know, there's things wrong with that scenario. I mean, it fell apart from the beginning. I mean, Kevin, the brother who fired the shot, the shots, he was, Matt was shot seven times. He was taken into custody that night, despite his argument that it was a self-defense shooting. The cops didn't believe that for a second. And Kevin, I think, was never out of custody again. Like, he went in instantly, and that was the end of that. And then the only question was, who else was involved? The hapless Kevin, I think you could say. And by the way, if they thought they were going to get away with it, that plot started crumbling from the beginning. You know, he's shot through the wrist, but he's still holding the knife. He's holding the knife in his wrong hand. He took off his shoes before he came into the living room, right? Something that Speaker 8 (5:15) home invaders generally don't do. Well, they clearly were a bunch of amateur murderers. No question about that. I think the plan was to Speaker 2 (5:22) just make it sound like Matt was an angry, you know, vengeful guy. And he, you know, came over. barged in, you know, they'd taken the screen door off to make it easier for him to come in the house. And she says, she says to him in the calls, like, you're coming in, right? You're going to come in. I need your help with the kids, you know, getting all their stuff. And the kids stuff was not packed, which would, which it would have been if Matt's going to collect them and they're going to go home. Of course. Everything about this. fell apart. You know, there are blankets on the furniture to keep blood spatter off it. That's not something you generally do. Kevin, who fires the shot, has a holster in his pocket. I don't think you walk around your house at night with your gun in a holster on your hip unless you're planning to or expecting to use it. That definitely stood out for police. Speaker 3 (6:17) No question. That's the old Chekhov notion that if a gun makes an appearance, It's going to be used in the next act. That's right. It was indeed in this story. Yeah. But I'm interested in the architecture of this family. My impression was, and I'd like to know your impression, is it all went back, as you said, to the mother. What was your sense of her character, her personality, or maybe her psychiatric quirks? She Speaker 2 (6:44) had gotten away with a lot of crimes, smaller than this, as far as we know. But she'd gotten away with a lot of crimes, like all her life. Some of them she justified by saying she needed to feed her family, so that's why she shoplifted. But she also stole money from her friends, from people she knew regularly. Speaker 5 (7:02) And so I said, we can no longer be friends. Speaker 2 (7:07) Tracy denied stealing from Terry, but seemed fine with that long friendship being over. As long as she didn't get into trouble. Speaker 4 (7:16) She has a way of talking her way out of things that blows my mind. Speaker 2 (7:22) So what I think she thought is that I am smarter than law enforcement kind of in the aggregate. And if we tell a plausible story, we'll get away with this too. Now, the issue of why Matt Rustelli needed to be executed. is can't be explained. The only issue is to save her daughter, Kate, some headache and heartache and financial responsibility in a divorce. But like, like, like this was not a terrible guy. I mean, mom didn't like it, but like there was nothing about Matt Rustelli that should have made anybody think let's kill him. Speaker 3 (8:05) So the mother was not only a thief and a lawbreaker, but she was, it seems to me, or at least from what I could discern, remarkably manipulative. She had a Speaker 8 (8:17) Svengali-like power over her kids. She reminds me of Sante Kimes, Speaker 3 (8:22) about who we did a number of stories. And the similarity also includes the fact that the children are still besotted with their mother. The sons, in Kime's case, still talk about how much they love her, even though she did all these dreadful things and made them do dreadful things. And I was fascinated by Terrolin and how she, you know, wanted to believe that there was nothing terribly nefarious going on. Speaker 2 (8:53) Terrolin is a wonderful character. And also, I think, basically, a very good person. Speaker 2 (9:00) I think nobody wants to believe the worst about their family. And I think Terrell has a lot in common with a lot of other families. I think it's very hard to believe that this mom that you've seen sort of get away with little things over the years has now graduated to the big time and is doing a murder. And, you know, when Kevin was arrested and then Kate, I think Terrell still expected very quickly. Speaker 2 (9:29) the police were going to realize they'd made two giant mistakes and